used ASW850, tricky? or new SVS PB2000 pro? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 05-28-2020, 03:13 AM - Thread Starter
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used ASW850, tricky? or new SVS PB2000 pro?

hi there

I'm on the lookout for a new subwoofer.
The SVS PB2000 pro is on my shortlist, which would cost me about 1150€ (that's a bit more than in the US), it has equalizer app setup thingy, which I think is a big plus. I still have to hear it at a dealer.
For HT use I have a pre-processor (Marantz AV7005) that has audyssey, don't know if that's in the same league as the tuning possibilities from SVS.

But I came across a used B&W ASW850 that sells for 950€ (about $1050).
It's a high-end hifi dealer that sells it, it was from one of their customers, so I suppose they have at least looked at it before offering it. They say it was first sold in 2003 though, that's a while ago. I'm not sure if there could be problems in the foreseeable future. I'll audition before buying.

I have a B&W setup, N802 and a HTM1 , bought in 1999, so the B&W would look good with it, but the SVS is brand new and has the advanced setup possibilities. I don't know if they would perform the same.

PS I have an B&W ASW2500, which I never really liked and broke down a year ago
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post #2 of 14 Old 05-28-2020, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_joly View Post
hi there



I'm on the lookout for a new subwoofer.

The SVS PB2000 pro is on my shortlist, which would cost me about 1150€ (that's a bit more than in the US), it has equalizer app setup thingy, which I think is a big plus. I still have to hear it at a dealer.

For HT use I have a pre-processor (Marantz AV7005) that has audyssey, don't know if that's in the same league as the tuning possibilities from SVS.



But I came across a used B&W ASW850 that sells for 950€ (about $1050).

It's a high-end hifi dealer that sells it, it was from one of their customers, so I suppose they have at least looked at it before offering it. They say it was first sold in 2003 though, that's a while ago. I'm not sure if there could be problems in the foreseeable future. I'll audition before buying.



I have a B&W setup, N802 and a HTM1 , bought in 1999, so the B&W would look good with it, but the SVS is brand new and has the advanced setup possibilities. I don't know if they would perform the same.



PS I have an B&W ASW2500, which I never really liked and broke down a year ago
While I wouldn't be able to answer which one to get, I'd ask you to consider the following
B&W is an old sub and I know they are a very good company. I'd find out how long they're willing to support service and repair for this model. I've seen a few manufacturers (cheaper ones though) ending support at the 5 year mark. One day, I hope never, the Sub might go bad and I'm sure you don't want an expensive furniture.
The SVS pb2000 pro is a great sub. Better than 2000 in many ways. Easy to connect and a few nice tricks up it's sleeve due to the app support. While I appreciate the ease of setup, it's not everyday you'll be changing stuff on the Sub. I mean once it's placed in the room the PEQ will remain same for that room. While you might want to bass eq a few movies TV shows it lacks the number of filters you might need for those.

About a couple of months ago, I was in the market for new subs too and I realized a lot of things before I bought my subs, eg for a much more even response on all seating positions , you should get 2 (ultimately 4) subwoofers. Room size (actually volume of room) plays an important role. Things to note here is that woofers pressurise the rooms to give an awesome bass and small subs just sound terrible in big rooms. When I moved from my (14x12x9) 1500 cuft room to a (23x13x9) 3000 cuft room, I thought my already owned kef t2 would get enough support from a klipsch sw10 (borrowed from a friend) to make love the room. I couldn't have been more wrong. The spl falls at an exponential rate with linear increase in volume.

Hence to better understand your needs and for the real help in the forum, if request you to share your room size.

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post #3 of 14 Old 05-28-2020, 04:53 AM
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The specs on the B&W sub look good but I wouldn't pay $1K for a 17-year-old, used subwoofer.

A possible alternative to going with the SVS sub is the SUB 12.17 EDGE (currently on sale for 590 €).
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-28-2020, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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room is 20x16.5x9 = 2880cuft

That's a good point. B&W to my knowledge has spare parts for long periods of time (a few years ago I had to replace bass units for my N802, and a Classé amp I have has been in service a few times due to a problem they couldn't find, finally it was fixed under warranty 8 years after purchase), but I could first check if they have still parts for this particular model.
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-28-2020, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_joly View Post
room is 20x16.5x9 = 2880cuft



That's a good point. B&W to my knowledge has spare parts for long periods of time (a few years ago I had to replace bass units for my N802, and a Classé amp I have has been in service a few times due to a problem they couldn't find, finally it was fixed under warranty 8 years after purchase), but I could first check if they have still parts for this particular model.
Yes. I kind of expected that from B&W.

Now for my personal experience. Most of the big brands that everyone talks about are imported here which cause a great price hike. The room you say needs a stronger woofer than the pb2000 pro. In simple words it won't be capable of pressurising the room.

I have heard the Pb2000 pro in person and I didn't like it for my room. I had decided on going duals due to 2 rows of seating and hence went for the RYTHMIK FVX12. Numbers aside (tech is slightly different on both), the pb2000 pro didn't create the same pressure that the FVX12 could. Mind you the FVX12 amp is rated at 400 RMS.

While one of these sub can probably fill up my room it'll be doing it with quite a stretch, 2 of them work great at about 75% gain and give a pretty nice output. Though I'm not at THX levels (I find them too loud), I'm able to drive them to about 90-95db at MLP. Also I'm on rental so constant shifting was again on my mind when buying things.

I'd suggest buying 1 FV15HP for now. This is closer to the Pb16 ultra in terms of performance with lower frequency bass extension. You can buy one for now and end it at that or maybe buy a second one later, if you feel the need. Again the specs on the FV15HP shows a lower wattage amp, but they are much more powerful than what numbers suggest.

You can see a few YouTube videos of the FV15HP on YouTube. Also for any doubts the forums has an official Rythmik woofer thread. I'd suggest a visit.



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post #6 of 14 Old 05-29-2020, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes. I kind of expected that from B&W.

Now for my personal experience. Most of the big brands that everyone talks about are imported here which cause a great price hike. The room you say needs a stronger woofer than the pb2000 pro. In simple words it won't be capable of pressurising the room.

I have heard the Pb2000 pro in person and I didn't like it for my room. I had decided on going duals due to 2 rows of seating and hence went for the RYTHMIK FVX12. Numbers aside (tech is slightly different on both), the pb2000 pro didn't create the same pressure that the FVX12 could. Mind you the FVX12 amp is rated at 400 RMS.

While one of these sub can probably fill up my room it'll be doing it with quite a stretch, 2 of them work great at about 75% gain and give a pretty nice output. Though I'm not at THX levels (I find them too loud), I'm able to drive them to about 90-95db at MLP. Also I'm on rental so constant shifting was again on my mind when buying things.

I'd suggest buying 1 FV15HP for now. This is closer to the Pb16 ultra in terms of performance with lower frequency bass extension. You can buy one for now and end it at that or maybe buy a second one later, if you feel the need. Again the specs on the FV15HP shows a lower wattage amp, but they are much more powerful than what numbers suggest.

You can see a few YouTube videos of the FV15HP on YouTube. Also for any doubts the forums has an official Rythmik woofer thread. I'd suggest a visit.



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thanks for the hint. I'll guess I'll start investigating the world of subwoofers some more because I had even never heard of Rythmik.
Too bad you can't easily buy it in Europe, which means heafty import taxes
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post #7 of 14 Old 05-29-2020, 12:14 AM
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thanks for the hint. I'll guess I'll start investigating the world of subwoofers some more because I had even never heard of Rythmik.

Too bad you can't easily buy it in Europe, which means heafty import taxes
There are many of them. After owning klipsch, I realized the big brands look better, but fall off rather early (r10sw has a lower freq of 32)even with a port. Similarly the Harman Kardon attached with the sb26 (yes a sound bar system, I know) lists 38Hz.

Very few are actually built to go in the Netherlands of sub 20Hz and survive. Many subs have died trying to play the edge of tomorrow opening or the tank battle in fury.

Also depends on what listening spl you're looking for. At 60db,you won't hear anything and all subs can run fine. A measurement mic will show you the same thing, but once the volume is increased the drivers and box start feeling compression. At very high volumes (near limit) the driver will be limited by the air inside the cabinet followed by enclosure creaks and/or port chuffing. In simple words amplifier, driver and enclosure just can't keep up with you demands. Running it beyond the limit or extended period in the limit range may damage the Sub, maybe even rendering it useless. Hence It's wise to have a little extra in your pocket for when you don't know a movie/show might need the extra db.

May I suggest hopping onto a few official threads of brands like Rythmik, PSA, HSU to see for yourself what you can expect.

I think there is a brand called Rel, which I couldn't find in my location, but saw them on my trip to Frankfurt. They do make some impressive subs. Worth visiting their official thread too. Overall the set of people on these forums are quite happy to help. I've seen a few suggesting competing brands when they know they can't meet the customers needs.

Also you'll find customers who've jumped ships from one brand to another and loved or hated that decision. So their perspective is also worth a read.




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post #8 of 14 Old 05-29-2020, 04:13 AM
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Bhootz has great sub suggestions. Another I see here often (I have no experience with them) for Europe consumers is XTZ https://www.xtzsound.eu/start. Maybe check them out and see about shipping.

EDIT: Bah, eljaycanuck already recommended them...
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post #9 of 14 Old 06-02-2020, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks all for the input

Usually I do an extensive investigation before buying new AV equipment, but for some reason I though SVS was all I needed

It's a pitty that a lot of US brands are quite expensive to get in Europe due to high shipping + taxes costs (Monoprice, Rythmic) but there are a few alternatives (XTZ, Arendal, BK) so I'll start focussing on those
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-02-2020, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_joly View Post
thanks all for the input



Usually I do an extensive investigation before buying new AV equipment, but for some reason I though SVS was all I needed



It's a pitty that a lot of US brands are quite expensive to get in Europe due to high shipping + taxes costs (Monoprice, Rythmic) but there are a few alternatives (XTZ, Arendal, BK) so I'll start focussing on those
While I'm just trying to help, I'll just say SVS is given more credit for its performance. They are good subwoofers, no doubt, but the rave i see on youtube etc is a bigger hype than their product. I'll be honest, haven't heard the pb 16 ultra or the pb 4000. The rest are great, just not the best.

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post #11 of 14 Old 07-01-2020, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I've narrowed my search down to Rythmik.
While XTZ are a steal here in Europe, I'm afraid that they will not go low enough.
Arendal have just released new models, but they are at least as expensive as Rythmik.

While SVS is a bit more expensive in Europe than in USA, you can find it at dealers. Rythmik you have to order directly from the US, paying heavy import taxes.
I've calculated the total price I'll have to pay.
My shortlist to choose from:
FVX12 ($1460): probably enough for my needs, and save a few 100 bucks
E15 ($1900€): nice compact with XLR, probably perfect for music, can it fill the room HT wise?
FVX15 (1850€): it's really huge, WAF score: 0.01, would just fit under my screen (1 inch)

If I had to choose between them now I would take the E15, just to look at it and say, that's 15inch baby!

reminder: room is 20x16.5x9 = 2880cuft
Music/HT 40/60
I don't listen to reference levels (on my Marantz pre-pro it's like -40 to -30)
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post #12 of 14 Old 07-01-2020, 10:39 AM
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My money is still on a pair of XTZ SUB 12.17 EDGE at 590 € each:
- 700W (RMS/continuous) amp;
- 19Hz +/-3dB extension;
- flexible tuning w/ PEQ; and
- duals for smoother FR at/across the main listening position;
- available in gloss black or white to help with WAF; and
- (considerably) less costly than any of the other options.

Regardless, happy shopping! I hope you enjoy whichever sub(s) you end up buying.
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post #13 of 14 Old 07-01-2020, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart_joly View Post
I've narrowed my search down to Rythmik.
While XTZ are a steal here in Europe, I'm afraid that they will not go low enough.
Arendal have just released new models, but they are at least as expensive as Rythmik.

While SVS is a bit more expensive in Europe than in USA, you can find it at dealers. Rythmik you have to order directly from the US, paying heavy import taxes.
I've calculated the total price I'll have to pay.
My shortlist to choose from:
FVX12 ($1460): probably enough for my needs, and save a few 100 bucks
E15 ($1900€): nice compact with XLR, probably perfect for music, can it fill the room HT wise?
FVX15 (1850€): it's really huge, WAF score: 0.01, would just fit under my screen (1 inch)

If I had to choose between them now I would take the E15, just to look at it and say, that's 15inch baby!

reminder: room is 20x16.5x9 = 2880cuft
Music/HT 40/60
I don't listen to reference levels (on my Marantz pre-pro it's like -40 to -30)

If you're looking at those subs for around 200 euros more you could get the XTZ 3X12 with local support. That sub would crush any of the Rythmik subs you listed. It's close in performance from 20hz on up to the FV25HP with strong output to 16hz.



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post #14 of 14 Old 07-03-2020, 08:06 PM
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As you are in Europe, the Rythmik is not an option. The Xtz 3X12 is a great sub with massive sound and Size. XTZ also have introduced dual opposed 12" sealed sub and front firing dual 12" sealed sub and a 15" ported subwoofer with 1000Watt RMS. So you can look into these 3 models. Arendal subs are also worth considering. Though the ID subs from US are very good, they don't make much sense compared to the European brands like the XTZ and Arendal when you sumup the total cost it takes to reach you. The same goes for SVS, PSA, JTR and Seaton.
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