What method do you use to time align sub/s with mains? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 05-31-2020, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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What method do you use to time align sub/s with mains?

As there are few ways of doing this, what method do you use?
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post #2 of 22 Old 05-31-2020, 08:52 PM
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Audyssey XT32/SubEq.
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-31-2020, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
As there are few ways of doing this, what method do you use?

I have tried a couple:
  • If my crossover is at 80hz, I play an 80Hz test tone in REW and then watch the real time SPL level. I look for a null and then when I find it, I add about 7ft to it. This method essentially gets the subs/mains perfectly aligned at the crossover frequency but when it came to listening with my ears it didn't sound good at all.
  • Using REW, run sweeps from 10-200Hz. I increase the sub distance setting by 1' at a time reviewing the full sweep after each run until I find a curve that I like the best. This works well I think.
  • Using the time align feature in REW I take a 10-200Hz sweep of the sub on its own and the front towers together without the sub. I then open both plots within the time alignment tool and pick the crossover frequency (normally 80 but sometimes 100) and then REW tells me how far to adjust the sub distance setting. This seems to work OK.
I know other users use an REW method where they take a plot of the sub by itself and the front speakers by themselves and then use REW's ability to simulate what a change in delay would do to the curves. REW produces a predicted combined curve and after finding a curve they like they input that delay into the sub distance setting. It supposedly works well but I have not done it.

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Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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Last edited by badtlc; 06-01-2020 at 05:52 AM.
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post #4 of 22 Old 05-31-2020, 10:26 PM
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I run Dirac Live and verify with Room EQ Wizard

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post #5 of 22 Old 06-01-2020, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
As there are few ways of doing this, what method do you use?
Use the time alignment tool in the latest beta release for REW. Makes it really simple

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-01-2020, 06:44 AM
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-01-2020, 06:53 AM
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The Alignment tool in REW works great if your AVR room correction software isn't setting the distances correctly..
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-01-2020, 11:59 AM
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Back in the old days, the phase knob was used for that. You would turn the knob until the bass sounded loudest/best. Nowadays, use software.
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post #9 of 22 Old 06-01-2020, 11:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
Audyssey XT32/SubEq.
Do you confirm with REW or similar?
Or fine tune.
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post #10 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
As there are few ways of doing this, what method do you use?

I have tried a couple:
  • If my crossover is at 80hz, I play an 80Hz test tone in REW and then watch the real time SPL level. I look for a null and then when I find it, I add about 7ft to it. This method essentially gets the subs/mains perfectly aligned at the crossover frequency but when it came to listening with my ears it didn't sound good at all.
  • Using REW, run sweeps from 10-200Hz. I increase the sub distance setting by 1' at a time reviewing the full sweep after each run until I find a curve that I like the best. This works well I think.
  • Using the time align feature in REW I take a 10-200Hz sweep of the sub on its own and the front towers together without the sub. I then open both plots within the time alignment tool and pick the crossover frequency (normally 80 but sometimes 100) and then REW tells me how far to adjust the sub distance setting. This seems to work OK.
I know other users use an REW method where they take a plot of the sub by itself and the front speakers by themselves and then use REW's ability to simulate what a change in delay would do to the curves. REW produces a predicted combined curve and after finding a curve they like they input that delay into the sub distance setting. It supposedly works well but I have not done it.
Dont forget its around the 80hz xover too, in your example should look at 40-160hz for the best summation.

Which one did you finally use and which method going forward?
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post #11 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyderp View Post
I run Dirac Live and verify with Room EQ Wizard
How do you verify in REW, run sweeps or use the alignment tool.
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post #12 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
As there are few ways of doing this, what method do you use?
Use the time alignment tool in the latest beta release for REW. Makes it really simple
Which auto correction do you use and do you use it for time alignment.
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post #13 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Audyssey MultEQ XT32 w/ Sub EQ HT
You trust what Audyssey does for time alignment subs.
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post #14 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
The Alignment tool in REW works great if your AVR room correction software isn't setting the distances correctly..
Do you do both.
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post #15 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Back in the old days, the phase knob was used for that. You would turn the knob until the bass sounded loudest/best. Nowadays, use software.
Some still have that don't they. Like a variable phase.
Do you use auto calibration time alignment then confirm with a software such as REW.
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post #16 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
Do you do both.
Yes. I found that with my 4 subs I need to add 3 ms of delay to the sub that I sit closest too. After Audyssey calibrates my setup I always find that the bass sounds like it's passing by me in all directions like a phase issue. After the added delay it then sounds like I am being hit by the bass in all directions. The odd thing is you can't see a difference in the response either with or without the delay added. So only thing I can figure is there is just enough of a difference between the mic placement and my ears. So what I perceive as a phase issue doesn't show up on the measurement and the delay doesn't change doesn't effect the response either.
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post #17 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 10:20 AM
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Would that be 1.1ms per foot for the closet sub when adding a delay?

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post #18 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
You trust what Audyssey does for time alignment subs.
I run Audyssey, then check my FR curve with OmniMic and adjust if/as necessary.
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post #19 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
Do you do both.
Yes. I found that with my 4 subs I need to add 3 ms of delay to the sub that I sit closest too. After Audyssey calibrates my setup I always find that the bass sounds like it's passing by me in all directions like a phase issue. After the added delay it then sounds like I am being hit by the bass in all directions. The odd thing is you can't see a difference in the response either with or without the delay added. So only thing I can figure is there is just enough of a difference between the mic placement and my ears. So what I perceive as a phase issue doesn't show up on the measurement and the delay doesn't change doesn't effect the response either.
Have you got measurements of the subs and the mains separate, and mains combined. If you like and not a problem for you can you post these with the phase showing as a overlay, as a photo. Computer got going so hence the photos.
Also can you tell me the crossover.
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post #20 of 22 Old 06-02-2020, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
You trust what Audyssey does for time alignment subs.
I run Audyssey, then check my FR curve with OmniMic and adjust if/as necessary.
Do you have Omnimic measurements of the subwoofers and mains separate and the subs together and mains together. If you want to you can post them as a photo and list your crossover. Please show phase.
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post #21 of 22 Old 06-03-2020, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
How do you verify in REW, run sweeps or use the alignment tool.
I just do a sweep

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post #22 of 22 Old 06-03-2020, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philips752 View Post
Dont forget its around the 80hz xover too, in your example should look at 40-160hz for the best summation.

Which one did you finally use and which method going forward?

I just don't get enough time to really test this stuff to the level I am comfortable with. I would say the trial-and-error method of adjusting the sub distance 1 ft, run sweep, and repeat is probably the safest method.


I wish there was a reliable easier method.

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
AVR: Denon AVR-X3500H
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