PSA OR Rythimic!?????! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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PSA OR Rythimic!?????!

S18 Vs. F18? Ready to pull the trigger just wanted some insight before hand. Thank you!

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post #2 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 11:19 AM
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Curious: What happened to the "rhythmic FV18, PSA TV18"?

Regardless, IMO it looks like a coin-toss between the F18 and S1812. I'd probably go with the servo-controlled Rythmik.
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post #3 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 11:24 AM
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Personally I'd go for the F18
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post #4 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 11:26 AM
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Good news is that there isn’t a bad choice between those. I do lean to the Rythmik tho.
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post #5 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 11:29 AM
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I have had both Rythmik and PSA subs. Both are great choices. For this particular question about sealed 18" subs, I would recommend the PSA as I think you will get higher levels of output from the Neo driver than you will from the Rythmik and the PSA is less $$$.



Both are fantastic as far as sound quality (Rythmik vs PSA). The PSA may not be quite as attractive to look at but the finish the PSA sub is essentially a truck bedliner. It is extremely durable and does look nice in person but it doesn't look as nice as the Rythmik subs, IMO.
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post #6 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
I have had both Rythmik and PSA subs. Both are great choices. For this particular question about sealed 18" subs, I would recommend the PSA as I think you will get higher levels of output from the Neo driver than you will from the Rythmik and the PSA is less $$$.



Both are fantastic as far as sound quality (Rythmik vs PSA). The PSA may not be quite as attractive to look at but the finish the PSA sub is essentially a truck bedliner. It is extremely durable and does look nice in person but it doesn't look as nice as the Rythmik subs, IMO.
Higher level of output? All frequency ranges? Just curious where you came to your conclusion is all.
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post #7 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 11:59 AM
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Higher level of output? All frequency ranges? Just curious where you came to your conclusion is all.

The Rythmik might be a touch higher SPL <20Hz but I think above that the PSA might have more output because of the highly efficient Neo driver and every so slightly more powerful amp.

The levels in question though are so loud I don't know that it matters. I'd pick based more on cost between these two than anything else. There can be no loser picking between the two.
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post #8 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:01 PM
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It wouldn't surprise me if the S1812 had a decent output advantage above 60Hz or so. The F18 is no slouch in this range either, with ~118dB in the 60-120Hz range (and at very low distortion levels)
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post #9 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Curious: What happened to the "rhythmic FV18, PSA TV18"?

Regardless, IMO it looks like a coin-toss between the F18 and S1812. I'd probably go with the servo-controlled Rythmik.
I’ve been comparing sizes. It was either 1 TV36, or 1 TV18 or dual F18’s or dual S18’s. I like the idea of having duals and I believe having the dual sealed 18’s will out perform one tv18 or TV36. Am I thinking the correct way?
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post #10 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Higher level of output? All frequency ranges? Just curious where you came to your conclusion is all.

The Rythmik might be a touch higher SPL <20Hz but I think above that the PSA might have more output because of the highly efficient Neo driver and every so slightly more powerful amp.

The levels in question though are so loud I don't know that it matters. I'd pick based more on cost between these two than anything else. There can be no loser picking between the two.
I’d be getting the ipal, not the neo.

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post #11 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post
I’ve been comparing sizes. It was either 1 TV36, or 1 TV18 or dual F18’s or dual S18’s. I like the idea of having duals and I believe having the dual sealed 18’s will out perform one tv18 or TV36. …
Thanks for your reply.

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… Am I thinking the correct way?
Depends on things like room size, width of the main listening position (MLP) and general expectations. A pair of F18s or S1812s may provide smoother FR across a wider MLP, but a single TV36 will crush them in the ULF department (and may have more mid-bass to boot).
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post #12 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:17 PM
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I’d be getting the ipal, not the neo.

My first question is, are you sure? The PSA website doesn't list an Ipal version of the S18, only the S1812 (Neo driver) shows up.


But that doesn't really change anything either way. The output increase of the ipal over the Neo is negligible (like less than 1dB) for most folks as per Tom V himself. It is more bragging rights than practicality. Before you purchase an ipal version, I would highly advise calling the PSA contact number on their site. Tom V will likely be the one to answer the phone. Ask him about the differences between the Neo and Ipal drivers. If he thinks you will notice a benefit from the Ipal he will tell you. If he doesn't think it would be worth it for you, he will tell you.
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post #13 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I&#226;€&#x2122;&#xfe0f;d be getting the ipal, not the neo.

My first question is, are you sure? The PSA website doesn't list an Ipal version of the S18, only the S1812 (Neo driver) shows up.


But that doesn't really change anything either way. The output increase of the ipal over the Neo is negligible (like less than 1dB) for most folks as per Tom V himself. It is more bragging rights than practicality. Before you purchase an ipal version, I would highly advise calling the PSA contact number on their site. Tom V will likely be the one to answer the phone. Ask him about the differences between the Neo and Ipal drivers. If he thinks you will notice a benefit from the Ipal he will tell you. If he doesn't think it would be worth it for you, he will tell you.
Your right, only neo option offered in s18.

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post #14 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
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Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post
I&#226;€&#x2122;&#xfe0f;ve been comparing sizes. It was either 1 TV36, or 1 TV18 or dual F18&#226;€&#x2122;&#xfe0f;s or dual S18&#226;€&#x2122;&#xfe0f;s. I like the idea of having duals and I believe having the dual sealed 18&#226;€&#x2122;&#xfe0f;s will out perform one tv18 or TV36. &#226;€&#166;
Thanks for your reply. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

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&#226;€&#166; Am I thinking the correct way?
Depends on things like room size and width of the main listening position (MLP). A pair of F18s or S1812s may provide smoother FR across a wider MLP, but a single TV36 will crush them in the ULF department (and may have more mid-bass to boot).
Room size is 17x16 (Open). MLP width is 8’. When I had one SVS pb13 ultra, I did t like having “dead bass spots”. I am thinking by having two sealed 18’s will fix this issue. Do you think one TV18 will have lower ULF than two f18’s? Or do you think one TV 36 will have lower ULF than two f18’s? I’m really trying to get a understanding what I’m investing in. I never felt fulfilled with my SVS pb13 ultra. I removed when Dewayne. And over here to calibrate my tv, he want impressed at all and to move forward with a captivitor. This was years back, I don’t know what mode
He was speaking about. I don’t have much space to work with, so I’m really trying to choose wisely this time.

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post #15 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post
Room size is 17x16 (Open). MLP width is 8’. When I had one SVS pb13 ultra, I did t like having “dead bass spots”. I am thinking by having two sealed 18’s will fix this issue. Do you think one TV18 will have lower ULF than two f18’s? Or do you think one TV 36 will have lower ULF than two f18’s? I’m really trying to get a understanding what I’m investing in. I never felt fulfilled with my SVS pb13 ultra. I removed when Dewayne. And over here to calibrate my tv, he want impressed at all and to move forward with a captivitor. This was years back, I don’t know what mode
He was speaking about. I don’t have much space to work with, so I’m really trying to choose wisely this time.

Odds are 2 will help you get a smother response across multiple seats but it will take some work and is not guaranteed, especially if you have limited sub location problems.

as for your ULF questions, that really depends on the room. 17x16 "open" does not sound like a room. It sounds like a large open space. Depending on where your room gain starts, a sealed sub might give you better ULF response over a ported sub or vice versa if the longest dimension of the room is really long. If you are trying to figure out what exactly is the "best" for you, it will require some personal testing as there are no guarantees. Be sure to understand how much the return shipping charges are before purchasing anything because it sounds like you may want to experiment and the return shipping costs might just push you one way or another.


One thing that would be really helpful in order for you to make the best informed decision possible is to find out exactly how loud you like to listen to your system and how hot do you want to run your subs. If you can give some guidance on that, it could really help determine if you can get there with sealed or do you need ported and how much will you need.

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post #16 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 01:04 PM
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S18 Vs. F18? Ready to pull the trigger just wanted some insight before hand. Thank you!
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post #17 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post
Room size is 17x16 (Open). MLP width is 8’. When I had one SVS pb13 ultra, I did t like having “dead bass spots”. I am thinking by having two sealed 18’s will fix this issue. Do you think one TV18 will have lower ULF than two f18’s? Or do you think one TV 36 will have lower ULF than two f18’s? I’m really trying to get a understanding what I’m investing in. I never felt fulfilled with my SVS pb13 ultra. I removed when Dewayne. And over here to calibrate my tv, he want impressed at all and to move forward with a captivitor. This was years back, I don’t know what mode
He was speaking about. I don’t have much space to work with, so I’m really trying to choose wisely this time.

Hi,

Ported subs, especially those with port tunes in the mid-teens or lower, have an inherent advantage, compared to similar model sealed subs. Typically, the advantage starts below about 50Hz, increases pretty strongly below 35Hz, and may be enormous under 20Hz. In about the mid-teens or lower, a single ported sub may be equal in output to four sealed subs of the same model. The ports really do make that much difference, which is why so many speakers have them.

If low-frequencies matter to you, then staying with ported subs is definitely something to consider. Incidentally, both ported subs and sealed subs can benefit from room gain in the mid-teens and lower. The ported subs just start with so much more SPL at those frequencies that it is much easier to generate low-frequency house curves.

I usually like to recommend getting the single largest sub that you can accommodate and afford, and then adding a second one when it is convenient to do so. But, since you know that you want to have two subs, and since your room size may not be extremely large (despite the opening to another space) I would probably recommend either dual TV18's or dual FV18's.

Either pair of subs would have a huge advantage below about 35Hz, and continuing into the low-teens, over either of the sealed models you are currently considering. And both subs will also have very low-distortion. The FV18, with the paper cone, is well established as a superior performer, and a superior value, now. The TV18 is a newer model, but early owner reports on it, and on the TV36, are excellent. No bad choice there either!

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post #18 of 26 Old 06-01-2020, 05:34 PM
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I recently sent dual b-stock S18 IPAL back to PSA due to a sound issue (they will arrive Thursday). Buzzing/stuttering that was proportional to signal. No issue with the G25HP so I assume they were defective. You might be able to pick those up for discount after they investigate.

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post #19 of 26 Old 06-02-2020, 07:09 AM
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Since you have already determined that you don't like the way things sound throughout the room with a single sub, I would be looking at duals. Properly integrating two subs definitely requires more effort to get right, but you will usually end up with a better response in the end.

I have owned both PSA subs and currently have Rythmik subs. It is easy to get stuck in a "paralysis by analysis" situation trying to compare subs but rest assured that both are excellent subs. Based on my experience in my room, here is how the two are different:

1. Aesthetics - Both look nice in person, but in my opinion, the Rythmik is more attractive unless you like the more rugged look of the PSA. The default finish on the Rythmik is a high quality vinyl wrap which isn't quite as durable as the PSA finish, but unless you plan to abuse it, that should be a non-issue.

2. Warranty - The standard PSA warranty is 5 years on all components while the Rythmik warranty is 5 years on everything except the amp which is 3 years.

3. Sound Quality - Both subs sound great but the Rythmik is going to have lower distortion when pushed to its limits. The Rythmik also has amp options which let you fine tune the sound.

4. Bass Impact - There isn't a huge difference here but the PSA does have slightly higher mid bass TR while the Rythmik has slightly higher ULF TR.

5. Output - This is a complete unknown since the PSA subs haven't been tested. Based on published specs, I would expect the PSA to have a slight edge in mid bass output (higher sensitivity driver) and the Rythmik to have a slight edge in ULF output (higher excursion driver).

6. Noise - There has been a lot of discussion about a slight hiss from the PSA drivers resulting from their high sensitivity. I experienced this with mine and it did eliminate the option of a very near field placement. The Rythmik is dead silent.

7. Tuning options - The Rythmik has a lot of different options for tuning the frequency response of the sub which can be quite useful (damping control, extension control, PEQ). The vented subs also have multiple tuning frequencies. The PSA only has a room size control which cuts the low end to reduce boominess from excessive room gain.

Anything I didn't specifically mention like customer service, build quality, etc I would rate as a tie.

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post #20 of 26 Old 06-02-2020, 07:35 AM
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Since you have already determined that you don't like the way things sound throughout the room with a single sub, I would be looking at duals. Properly integrating two subs definitely requires more effort to get right, but you will usually end up with a better response in the end.

I have owned both PSA subs and currently have Rythmik subs. It is easy to get stuck in a "paralysis by analysis" situation trying to compare subs but rest assured that both are excellent subs. Based on my experience in my room, here is how the two are different:

1. Aesthetics - Both look nice in person, but in my opinion, the Rythmik is more attractive unless you like the more rugged look of the PSA. The default finish on the Rythmik is a high quality vinyl wrap which isn't quite as durable as the PSA finish, but unless you plan to abuse it, that should be a non-issue.

2. Warranty - The standard PSA warranty is 2 years longer than Rythmik.

3. Sound Quality - Both subs sound great but the Rythmik is going to have lower distortion when pushed to its limits. The Rythmik also has amp options which let you fine tune the sound.

4. Bass Impact - There isn't a huge difference here but the PSA does have slightly higher mid bass TR while the Rythmik has slightly higher ULF TR.

5. Output - This is a complete unknown since the PSA subs haven't been tested. Based on published specs, I would expect the PSA to have a slight edge in mid bass output (higher sensitivity driver) and the Rythmik to have a slight edge in ULF output (higher excursion driver).

6. Noise - There has been a lot of discussion about a slight hiss from the PSA drivers resulting from their high sensitivity. I experienced this with mine and it did eliminate the option of a very near field placement. The Rythmik is dead silent.

7. Tuning options - The Rythmik has a lot of different options for tuning the frequency response of the sub which can be quite useful (damping control, extension control, PEQ). The vented subs also have multiple tuning frequencies. The PSA only has a room size control which cuts the low end to reduce boominess from excessive room gain.

Anything I didn't specifically mention like customer service, build quality, etc I would rate as a tie.
On point 2 for warranty, the woofer is covered for 5 years and amp for 3 years though I have not heard amp issues on Rythmiks much if any.

Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
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post #21 of 26 Old 06-02-2020, 07:46 AM
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On point 2 for warranty, the woofer is covered for 5 years and amp for 3 years though I have not heard amp issues on Rythmiks much if any.
Fixed

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post #22 of 26 Old 06-02-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by chucks0 View Post
Since you have already determined that you don't like the way things sound throughout the room with a single sub, I would be looking at duals. Properly integrating two subs definitely requires more effort to get right, but you will usually end up with a better response in the end.
With REW the OP could measure the subs current location, then move it to where the dual would go and measure there, and use the alignment tool to see what the combined response would be.
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post #23 of 26 Old 06-02-2020, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dlinsley View Post
With REW the OP could measure the subs current location, then move it to where the dual would go and measure there, and use the alignment tool to see what the combined response would be.
That is a great recommendation. It is a great way to test lots of different combinations of seating / sub placement virtually without having to completely setup each option. I did this while waiting for my second FV18 to come in so that I would have a good idea where it should go before it arrived.

Electronics: Denon X4400, Vizio M65
Sub: Rythmik FV18-PC x 2
Speakers: 3 x Chane A2.4 LCR, DIYSG Volt-6 Surrounds
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post #24 of 26 Old 06-02-2020, 02:16 PM
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We also forgot to mention Servo technology which is what largely sways people towards Rythmik subs. This is what I'm exploring at the moment.

Speakers: Fronts- JBL 230, Center- JBL 235C, Surrounds: Fluance XLBP
Sub: PSA 15V
Processing: Onkyo 676
Video: BenQ 1080ST
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post #25 of 26 Old 06-02-2020, 07:54 PM
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Agree it comes down to personal preference. Both seem to be good options.
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post #26 of 26 Old 06-03-2020, 10:10 AM
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I don't know if you're into shiny things, but the F18 in piano black is real good looking.
spiroh, audiofan1 and drh3b like this.

Display - Panasonic TC-P65VT60
Front L&R - Polk LSiM703 : Center - Polk LSiM706c : Surround L&R - Polk LSiM703
Subs - Two Rythmik F18-SEs
AVRs - Denon AVR-X6200W, Yamaha RX-A3040 : Amp - Yamaha M-80
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