Subwoofer Suggestions - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 06-01-2020, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Subwoofer Suggestions

Hey all,

I currently own a Klipsch R-12SW sub, that I've never been truly happy with. Seems more boomy/sloppy than it should be. I recently upgraded my front soundstage, and would like a sub that matches up better. I've done some research for upgrades here, and have come up with a few options I'd like to hear your opinions on.

FYI, my tv room is approximately 260 sq. ft... L shaped, fully enclosed. 8ft ceilings make that about 2,080 cubic ft, correct? I enjoy my 2.1 music as well as home theater surround, so I don't really want to put one over the other. I'd really like the sub to musical, punchy and accurate. I can live without full-on couch vibration if necessary.

I should mention, my current subwoofer placement isn't ideal (I've had it in more typical places in other rooms, though). It is currently directly behind my MLP (couch), enclosure to the left, driver facing to the right (will include pic)... but seems to be one of the only few options I can pull off. Including pics below in case anyone has any opinions to share placement.

RSL Speedwoofer --- Price is right at $400. I like the smaller size, and most of the reviews seem to be sparkling.
https://rslspeakers.com/products/rsl-speedwoofer-10s/

HSU VTF-2 mk5 -- $620ish shipped: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

SVS PB 2000 -- $699 shipped (iirc). https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000
SVS PC 2000 -- $699 shipped https://www.svsound.com/products/pc-2000

I think my room falls on the smaller side of average, so I'm wondering if I could get away with the RSL Speedwoofer --- and would it be a flat-out upgrade over the 12SW? I'm open to any ideas.

Pardon the mess in the pics... been a crazy couple weeks of upgraditis!
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Last edited by JP32; 06-01-2020 at 10:06 PM.
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post #2 of 16 Old 06-01-2020, 08:37 PM
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Don't forget about Rythmik.
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post #3 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 11:52 AM
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At that price, Hsu is the best value. RSL is losing out on sub 30hz output. SVS is a tad overpriced as you are paying for the fantastic customer service and free shipping on returns.

Keep in mind that most content, even in movies is above the 30hz roll off and the RSL, you are only missing out on the lowest frequencies. It can still be worth it if you like deep bass to go with the Hsu.
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post #4 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 12:35 PM
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Boomy and sloppy can be from a placement issue. A different sub might not fix it. So try a sub from somewhere with a good return policy like SVS.
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post #5 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 12:53 PM
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Hello JP32.


I have a setup in a room about that size and I ended up with two Monolith-10 subs.

I started with just one but I felt like the bass was too directional. I would definitely recommend two subs to even out the response.
I know that puts a big dent in your budget. I would watch Monoprice for b-stock Monolith 10s. I purchased one for like ~$350 when it was available.


The other thing to think about is that in a room that size the sealed Monolith 10 is probably optimal.

I am using a MiniDSP to run a 6db octave high pass at like 25hz to get a smooth response in my room.
Running my subs in the sealed configuration yield a very smooth room response in a room that size.
So I would not discount getting a sealed sub.

Also the RSL-10 with it's higher tuning frequency might work well with room gain in a smaller room like that.
Edit... I think my room is more like 160sq ft, so smaller then your space.

I would still recommend a pair of Monolith 10s for you but I would stick with the vented ones.
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Last edited by MegaFlop; 06-02-2020 at 12:57 PM.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mevansmusic View Post
At that price, Hsu is the best value. RSL is losing out on sub 30hz output. SVS is a tad overpriced as you are paying for the fantastic customer service and free shipping on returns.

Keep in mind that most content, even in movies is above the 30hz roll off and the RSL, you are only missing out on the lowest frequencies. It can still be worth it if you like deep bass to go with the Hsu.

30hz? That is a myth. There is plenty of content in movies that is below 30hz and heck even below 20hz. Also a low tuned sub has a different weighty sound that impacts the entire spectrum. Now if you BeQ then there is content down to 10hz easy.


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #7 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
30hz? That is a myth. There is plenty of content in movies that is below 30hz and heck even below 20hz. Also a low tuned sub has a different weighty sound that impacts the entire spectrum. Now if you BeQ then there is content down to 10hz easy.


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I am not saying that no movies use content below 30hz. I am saying that the majority of movies dont have significant output below 30hz. The reason we need a list like this, is because most movies do not use those lower frequencies. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...cy-charts.html I mean how many movies a year come out and the thread lists around 5-10 per year with deep bass extension.

There are a lot of blockbuster movies like Star Trek and the Hobbit that do not extend below 30hz at all. Even a bass heavy movie like John Wick, most of the bass is focused around 30hz where "chest punch" is felt (ie gun shots). Obviously John Wick also has frequencies below 30hz and it would benefit from a full range subwoofer.

Do I think it is worth it to have a subwoofer with usable output down to 20hz, absolutely. I am just saying that for the majority of content out there you will be fine without it.
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mevansmusic View Post
I am not saying that no movies use content below 30hz. I am saying that the majority of movies dont have significant output below 30hz. The reason we need a list like this, is because most movies do not use those lower frequencies. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...cy-charts.html I mean how many movies a year come out and the thread lists around 5-10 per year with deep bass extension.

There are a lot of blockbuster movies like Star Trek and the Hobbit that do not extend below 30hz at all. Even a bass heavy movie like John Wick, most of the bass is focused around 30hz where "chest punch" is felt (ie gun shots). Obviously John Wick also has frequencies below 30hz and it would benefit from a full range subwoofer.

Do I think it is worth it to have a subwoofer with usable output down to 20hz, absolutely. I am just saying that for the majority of content out there you will be fine without it.

BEQ!!


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Subwoofers: Dual Rythmik FV18s Rev2 with Paper cone, BOSS Platform mini riser, 2 BK LFE
Speakers: PSA MTM-210 L/C/R - Klipsch 250S Surrounds, PSA MT 110sr Rear Surrounds, 4 x SVS Prime Elevation for Atmos
Video: Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6500 UB; Room: 2100 cuft sealed on suspended floor
Receiver & Players: Denon X4400H, Oppo UDP-203, Roku Ultra. Apple TV, Minidsp 2X4 HD
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post #9 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP32 View Post
Hey all,

I currently own a Klipsch R-12SW sub, that I've never been truly happy with. Seems more boomy/sloppy than it should be. I recently upgraded my front soundstage, and would like a sub that matches up better. I've done some research for upgrades here, and have come up with a few options I'd like to hear your opinions on.

FYI, my tv room is approximately 260 sq. ft... L shaped, fully enclosed. 8ft ceilings make that about 2,080 cubic ft, correct? I enjoy my 2.1 music as well as home theater surround, so I don't really want to put one over the other. I'd really like the sub to musical, punchy and accurate. I can live without full-on couch vibration if necessary.

I should mention, my current subwoofer placement isn't ideal (I've had it in more typical places in other rooms, though). It is currently directly behind my MLP (couch), enclosure to the left, driver facing to the right (will include pic)... but seems to be one of the only few options I can pull off. Including pics below in case anyone has any opinions to share placement.

RSL Speedwoofer --- Price is right at $400. I like the smaller size, and most of the reviews seem to be sparkling.
https://rslspeakers.com/products/rsl-speedwoofer-10s/

HSU VTF-2 mk5 -- $620ish shipped: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk5.html

SVS PB 2000 -- $699 shipped (iirc). https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000
SVS PC 2000 -- $699 shipped https://www.svsound.com/products/pc-2000

I think my room falls on the smaller side of average, so I'm wondering if I could get away with the RSL Speedwoofer --- and would it be a flat-out upgrade over the 12SW? I'm open to any ideas.

Pardon the mess in the pics... been a crazy couple weeks of upgraditis!

If i remember correctly the rsl doesnt get very loud and not as low. I would go with a rythmik if you want it clean and low. I have a rythmik and a monolith 10 but the monolith while it gets loud doesnt blend with music very well.
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
BEQ!!


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I guess that is kind of the point of what I was trying to say. So many movies these days have stripped down LFE, or don't go that low. Even one of my favorite movies, Mad Max Fury Road doesn't do a ton under 30hz even though the causal viewer would probably describe the movie as "bass heavy". This lack of bass in most movies have lead to the use BEQ. All I was trying to say that for the casual user, even response down to 30hz is way better performance than you would get with a big box brand sub and it will do the trick.

Anyways I think we are on the same page. I would suggest that the OP spend the extra $200 (from the RSL) to get better output below 30hz. The Hsu VTF-2 does have some good usable output down to 20hz, which would give him a "full range" system.
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 07:49 PM
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I like all the suggestions the OP made. Hearing them in person is the best way to decide so brands with free returns helps in that process.
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 08:14 PM
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I am very impressed with my SVS SB-3000. I changed over from a Polk PSW 125. It just wasn't enough bass for me. It is guarantee couch vibration so I would say you can go listen to one. The cool thing about the SB-3000 is Bluetooth integration. You can turn it down from the couch I'm not sure on the SB-2000
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank for all the responses!

One thing that's been drilled into me over the last few threads I've been a part of, is to respect the in-home evaluation period with free return shipping certain companies have.

That said, I'm going to call SVS tomorrow and talk about options between the ported 1000, 2000, and PC2000 (cylindrical). I have the annoying room placement options, and the cylindrical option may help me move the sub closer to the front soundstage (could sneak it between the door and the little 4-square bookshelf you can see in the OP pic). I'll probably do a sub crawl tomorrow and see if that placement is even worth considering.

Thanks again all!

Mains: Emotiva Airmotiv T1+ | Center: Infinity RC263 | Surrounds: Polk Monitor 50 II | Top Middle: HTD HDX R65 (in-ceiling)
Sub: SVS PC-2000 + Klipsch R-12sw | Receiver: Denon S710w | TV: Sony XBR-75x850E | UHD Player: Sony x700 | Turntable: AT LP-120x | Xbox One X
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-03-2020, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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After a lot of testing and stress... I pulled the trigger on a SVS PC-2000. There's 2 spots I could put my sub that tested fairly well with my current Klipsch (used Spectroid app to get a Freq response graph while doing the sub crawl)... and with one of the spots, only the PC2000 could possibly fit (between several competitor subs).

Hoping to be impressed soon!
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Mains: Emotiva Airmotiv T1+ | Center: Infinity RC263 | Surrounds: Polk Monitor 50 II | Top Middle: HTD HDX R65 (in-ceiling)
Sub: SVS PC-2000 + Klipsch R-12sw | Receiver: Denon S710w | TV: Sony XBR-75x850E | UHD Player: Sony x700 | Turntable: AT LP-120x | Xbox One X
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-04-2020, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP32 View Post
After a lot of testing and stress... I pulled the trigger on a SVS PC-2000. There's 2 spots I could put my sub that tested fairly well with my current Klipsch (used Spectroid app to get a Freq response graph while doing the sub crawl)... and with one of the spots, only the PC2000 could possibly fit (between several competitor subs).

Hoping to be impressed soon!

From reviews they seem like very solid subs. Assuming they have enough SPL for you, they should do well. The only complaint I can recall seeing about the PC-2000 is that the power indicating light on the amp is very bright. Seems like an odd complaint, but OK.
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post #16 of 16 Old 06-05-2020, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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From reviews they seem like very solid subs. Assuming they have enough SPL for you, they should do well. The only complaint I can recall seeing about the PC-2000 is that the power indicating light on the amp is very bright. Seems like an odd complaint, but OK.
Nothing a little electrical tape can't solve.

Mains: Emotiva Airmotiv T1+ | Center: Infinity RC263 | Surrounds: Polk Monitor 50 II | Top Middle: HTD HDX R65 (in-ceiling)
Sub: SVS PC-2000 + Klipsch R-12sw | Receiver: Denon S710w | TV: Sony XBR-75x850E | UHD Player: Sony x700 | Turntable: AT LP-120x | Xbox One X
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