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post #1 of 7 Old 06-16-2020, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Sub for lower volume

I notice testing measurements of subs and people referring to those measurements state "x sub can do 130 db at 20Hz". How does a person interpret these graphs for normal listening levels? Or should I say, how does one understand how a sub performs at say 85-90 db.

At the end of the day I am looking for subs that perform well at normal listening levels. I want to feel the sub at lower levels without out turning up the gain and making sound like ****.

I am looking at Rythmik or PSA subs. Can you guys suggest a couple subs that perform well at moderate volume? I have a 4800CF space. LR is 14x24 and opens into DR
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post #2 of 7 Old 06-16-2020, 06:51 PM
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Hitting a peak DB at a certain frequency is often a drag race for bragging rights so to speak, and is greatly influenced by the room and set up, other than professional testing as whats done in a controlled environment such as Databass for example. Any good ported subwoofer set up properly in a good room should should play flat +/-3db maybe +/-5Db's from around port tune to whatever the X-over point is set at. Providing DEQ is disengaged it should stay close to that at lower levels as well imo thus giving you well balanced bass throughout the bandwidth at lower listening levels. That been said our ears can sometimes not hear or get that balance feel unless DEQ is engaged at lower leves as its designed to gradually increase the low end the more the volume is reduced, i personally dont use it.

Sealed subs (in their lower end) will be more influenced by the room size, sealed or open, slab or floating floor than its ported big brother.

Edit

Adding to Gary Mertz good point, unless you have large subs in that space and your MLP isn't to far from them, you wont get much tactile feel with lower volume, this is where many like the DEQ option but it's subjective to each of us. Large capable ported subs will give you what you want properly set up so dont expect 12" ers to get er done in that large space or sealed subs unless their equipped with huge power and drivers.

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Last edited by indebtbassfreak; 06-16-2020 at 07:21 PM.
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post #3 of 7 Old 06-16-2020, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnmax View Post
I notice testing measurements of subs and people referring to those measurements state "x sub can do 130 db at 20Hz". How does a person interpret these graphs for normal listening levels? Or should I say, how does one understand how a sub performs at say 85-90 db.

At the end of the day I am looking for subs that perform well at normal listening levels. I want to feel the sub at lower levels without out turning up the gain and making sound like ****.

I am looking at Rythmik or PSA subs. Can you guys suggest a couple subs that perform well at moderate volume? I have a 4800CF space. LR is 14x24 and opens into DR
You won't have any tactile feel at low level, you need air pressure to energize the space to get a true physical feeling. Your space is very large and you'll need preferably 2 capable subs. I'll always recommend DIY from GSG Audio but I don't think you could go wrong with a Rhythmic or PSA. I'm not familiar with all of their models but I think you'll need an 18" driver for that large of a space.

7.2.6 system. Monoprice HTP-1. JBL 590 fronts and 520 center all driven by a Bryston 6BST. 530 surrounds and NHT Superzero Atmos heights, all driven by 2 Bryston 9BSTs. Twin GSG Audio Devastators with LaVoce 214 drivers and pushed with a Behringer NX6000D amp. 2019 75" Vizio P-series Quantum.
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post #4 of 7 Old 06-17-2020, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnmax View Post
I notice testing measurements of subs and people referring to those measurements state "x sub can do 130 db at 20Hz". How does a person interpret these graphs for normal listening levels? Or should I say, how does one understand how a sub performs at say 85-90 db.



At the end of the day I am looking for subs that perform well at normal listening levels. I want to feel the sub at lower levels without out turning up the gain and making sound like ****.



I am looking at Rythmik or PSA subs. Can you guys suggest a couple subs that perform well at moderate volume? I have a 4800CF space. LR is 14x24 and opens into DR
Basically how subs produce TR is transferring energy to floor to your chair to your body or through air where compressed air hits you and gives you TR. At lower volumes both these things will also be reduced. That's all the theory I had to give.
Now as told by the previous FMs once can't predict accurately how things will turn out even if you give a very accurate description of your house.
While I listen to quite nominal levels (as per me) with a MV of - 20 db, again that might be loud to you or too meek. I'd suggest the following. Buy one sub that you can afford and see how well that works out. If you have multiple seating, I'd suggest a second sub for an even bass response. The volume (loudness) gained isn't too much.
If you think you're not getting enough tactile response, you can add some butt kickers (etc) or a BOSS system for tactile response even with the subs off.

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post #5 of 7 Old 06-17-2020, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, for the detailed and articulate responses. What you all explained is what I assumed but wasnt sure. Thank you
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post #6 of 7 Old 06-17-2020, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indebtbassfreak View Post
Hitting a peak DB at a certain frequency is often a drag race for bragging rights so to speak, and is greatly influenced by the room and set up, other than professional testing as whats done in a controlled environment such as Databass for example. Any good ported subwoofer set up properly in a good room should should play flat +/-3db maybe +/-5Db's from around port tune to whatever the X-over point is set at. Providing DEQ is disengaged it should stay close to that at lower levels as well imo thus giving you well balanced bass throughout the bandwidth at lower listening levels. That been said our ears can sometimes not hear or get that balance feel unless DEQ is engaged at lower leves as its designed to gradually increase the low end the more the volume is reduced, i personally dont use it.

Sealed subs (in their lower end) will be more influenced by the room size, sealed or open, slab or floating floor than its ported big brother.

Edit

Adding to Gary Mertz good point, unless you have large subs in that space and your MLP isn't to far from them, you wont get much tactile feel with lower volume, this is where many like the DEQ option but it's subjective to each of us. Large capable ported subs will give you what you want properly set up so dont expect 12" ers to get er done in that large space or sealed subs unless their equipped with huge power and drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Mertz View Post
You won't have any tactile feel at low level, you need air pressure to energize the space to get a true physical feeling. Your space is very large and you'll need preferably 2 capable subs. I'll always recommend DIY from GSG Audio but I don't think you could go wrong with a Rhythmic or PSA. I'm not familiar with all of their models but I think you'll need an 18" driver for that large of a space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BhootZ View Post
Basically how subs produce TR is transferring energy to floor to your chair to your body or through air where compressed air hits you and gives you TR. At lower volumes both these things will also be reduced. That's all the theory I had to give.
Now as told by the previous FMs once can't predict accurately how things will turn out even if you give a very accurate description of your house.
While I listen to quite nominal levels (as per me) with a MV of - 20 db, again that might be loud to you or too meek. I'd suggest the following. Buy one sub that you can afford and see how well that works out. If you have multiple seating, I'd suggest a second sub for an even bass response. The volume (loudness) gained isn't too much.
If you think you're not getting enough tactile response, you can add some butt kickers (etc) or a BOSS system for tactile response even with the subs off.

Sent from my HD1911 using Tapatalk

Thanks guys, for the detailed and articulate responses. What you all explained is what I assumed but wasnt sure. Thank you
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post #7 of 7 Old 06-17-2020, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnmax View Post
At the end of the day I am looking for subs that perform well at normal listening levels. I want to feel the sub at lower levels without out turning up the gain and making sound like ****.
As others have said, in order to get that tactile feeling, it requires higher SPL which is why most of us run our subs hotter than the other channels and/or use dynamic EQ. With larger rooms, it requires more from the subs to achieve those levels, especially at lower frequencies.

If you don’t want to listen at louder levels, but want to feel the effects in movies, tactile transducers might be your best bet. Combined with decent subs, they can provide a very realistic sensation and make the subs seem much louder than they actually are. The DIY solution (which is cheap and VERY effective) is a BOSS platform. I have a BOSS platform even though I have very capable subs. The best commercial solution available are Crowson motion actuators, but they are quite expensive. There are also cheaper solutions such as the buttkicker but I have always found their effect to be more gimmicky.
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