SVS PB10 in-room measurements (small review) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 02-06-2005, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My friend owns an SVS PB10 subwoofer and he was kind enough to let me borrow it over this weekend.

My system consists:
NAD T743 receiver
Sony DVD-player
Wharfedale Emerald 97 mains (2x6.5" bass each)
Wharfedale surrounds (no center)
Phoenix Gold 215i 2/3oct. EQ/active crossover
RS dB-meter (custom calibration file)
2GHz computer with lots of nice programs to play with

My room is quite small, only about 1500 cubic foot. It has one 0.8m x 2m opening to a bigger room. No door between. It's on second floor, concrete floor and ceiling, one wall is also concrete, other walls are softer materials.
Sub was placed between main speakers, about 1m from back wall and about 1.8m from listening point.

All speakers were calibrated at 85dB with AVIA, sub was calibrated at 79dB (4dB cold) with music and at 84-85dB (1-2dB hot) with movies. Reference level was calibrated at 0.0dB master volume.

Phoenix Gold EQ was connected between NAD's pre out's and main in's. It has 24dB/octave active 2-way crossover, xo frequency selectable between 30-600Hz. I used ~50-60Hz crossover setting. Small adjustments were made with EQ, -3dB at 63Hz and -2dB at 100Hz.

Here is the first FR: (music and movies) (not absolute SPL's)

http://personal.inet.fi/private/ilkk...sic_movies.png

It is quite smooth with good extension to 15Hz. I listened some music, but I was having this strange feeling that there was too much bass at the lower end. Some songs that go deep enough were some way boomy and not as musical as I have heard them before with my mains and other subs (my mains go all the way to 20Hz, F6). I tried to EQ that bump away, but my EQ wasn't good enough. BFD would have done the trick, but I didn't had it. Then I had a crazy idea. If you have some excessive boom in your speakers, what can you do? You shut the vent and make it a closed version. Why wouldn't this work with subs also. PB10 has a rather large box so Qtc would be quite low (<0.7). I stuffed some high density foam into the vent and I had one closed PB10 in my hands. Quess what happened to that bump?

http://personal.inet.fi/private/ilkk...sic_closed.png

Yep, it was gone. So was the boomy and excessive low end when I fired up my first song. It would have been interesting to explore if that enhancement would have been made with EQ'ing only. Maybe I need to buy that BFD and find out. Maybe a high pass filter (not very steep) at 25-30Hz would have done the same trick. I listened the same tracks again and I must say I prefer the sealed version. If the song's bass was only at 40-50Hz range and upper, there wasn't a big difference. But if song had some very deep sub 30Hz bass, the difference was very noticeable. Sealed version had the same extension but it was more "musical". Tight and not boomy at all.

With movies this is a one crazy subwoofer! I demoed most movies at -5-10dB from reference ("hot" tracks) and I was seeing 100dB peaks on my RS-meter. I have heard a bigger SVS (PC+ 20-39) in a bigger room, but in this smaller room PB10 sounded very much the same. PC+ can handle higher levels without distress and then you can hear the difference. I have also heard Velodyne DD-18 and I must say that at these "resonable" levels it is a tight match. Of course bigger Velo pulls some distance if pushed further.

This a graph from Finding Nemo, chapter 10, sub sliding. -10dB reference, DTS track which is very hot. Total power means the level you'd see in your SPL-meter (compensated). I was standing 2 meters away and my pants were waffling bigtime! This was not it's limit (but close) and there was still some juice in the trunk left. How much? I must do it again tomorrow at -5dB. ;)

Finding Nemo Graph1

I also did some max SPL tests to find out where the compression limit was (xo was at 60Hz). I used TrueRTA's QS option with 8kHz sampling freq. Each time level was boosted 5dB until compression occured. At 20Hz it happened at 106dB! Quite impressive for a $429 subwoofer. All SPL's are absolute numbers, they were carefully calibrated.

http://personal.inet.fi/private/ilkk...mpression1.png

I also did some THD tests to find out it's capabilities to produce CLEAN bass. And I was about to find out that there were almost no limits...
Selected graphs shown below. Again, none of these are limited SPL's. I just didn't want to go over 5% THD. (that 50Hz fundamental shown in every graph is just minor ground loop/50Hz electrical hum)

30Hz - 101dB

22Hz - 101dB

22Hz - 104dB

20Hz - 98dB

20Hz - 100dB

15Hz - 91dB

14Hz - 73dB Finally at 14Hz it gave out! :D

I was literally blown away with it's capability to produce clean bass. 100dB at 20Hz and my whole apartment was shaking!

Here is a small review from Velodyne DD-15 (only measurements), of course it is measured in anechoic chamber, but if you look at the THD level at 20Hz and 100dB level, it is the same as with PB10. How much the room gain helps SVS, we can only guess. But that is atleast something to think about.

I did also measure THD levels with closed SVS. I found out some interesting numbers.

16Hz - Vented

16Hz - Closed

20Hz - Vented

20Hz - Closed

At 16Hz the closed version was even better! And even at 20Hz, it doesn't have much more THD than the vented version. 25Hz and higher they were almost the same. And remember that I did prefer the closed one with music. Actually I didn't test it with movies at all, maybe tomorrow.

I must say that SVS PB10 is an awesome sub. Even if it would cost double it would be quite a bargain. My hat is off to SVS!

Feel free to comment and post your thoughts!
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post #2 of 13 Old 02-06-2005, 06:23 PM
 
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We interrupt this commercial to bring you our regularly scheduled support forum ... :)
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post #3 of 13 Old 02-06-2005, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Craig, bring your Velo up! ;)
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post #4 of 13 Old 02-06-2005, 06:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ilkka
Craig, bring your Velo up! ;)
We have that American thing called the Superbowl rolling here ... You are up LATE ! ...

Sports just does not make for a subwoofer workout ... eh ?
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post #5 of 13 Old 02-06-2005, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just realised that I have invented an SVS PB10-HO! :) Where is my patent?

Check this thread.
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post #6 of 13 Old 02-06-2005, 06:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ilkka
I just realised that I have invented an SVS PB10-HO! :) Where is my patent?

Check this thread.
Nothing like a good, old fashioned Hsu vs. SVS battle ... :cool: ... I was going to hit them with a "commercial" joke, but some of those guys lack a sense of humor.... :p
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post #7 of 13 Old 02-07-2005, 09:06 AM
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Ilkka-

Can you post this in an attachment:

"RS dB-meter (custom calibration file)"
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post #8 of 13 Old 02-07-2005, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My friend hasn't took the sub at home yet, so I of course played some more sweeps and movies with it. ;)

Yesterday's compression sweeps were made with 8kHz sampling frequency. Today I tried sweeps with 48kHz frequency. It goes further and it takes less time to sweep for example 10-100Hz range. So it's more dynamic than with 8kHz. Here are the results. The third graph is measured with xo off. Others have ~60Hz xo. Notice that below 15Hz meter isn't accurate anymore.

http://personal.inet.fi/private/ilkk...mpression2.png


111dB at 20Hz! I tried to push it even further, but it refused to play any louder. The sound that sub makes during the sweep is very short "thump!". So this is the dynamic max SPL.

I also tried few scenes from Finding Nemo (yes, my favourite bassdemo). I calibrated sub 1dB hotter than yesterday, so now it was 3dB hot. I played the famous "Darla" scene and also familiar "sub sliding" scene.

Darla -10dB 107.1dB

Darla -5dB 106.9dB

Sub -10dB 107.5dB

Sub -5dB 108.3dB


As you can see, -10dB was enough for PB10 in that difficult Darla scene. With submarine it handled -5dB, but it was compressing/limiting it's output already. Pretty impressive numbers though.

Total power values are calculated by the program and they represent the readings you should see in your dB-meter (compensated of course). I checked my meter during those scenes and I saw ~102dB peaks. Now we can see how much we need to compensate for these scenes.

I just watched the first battle from Master and Commander at -10dB (very hot track also). Every time those big cannons went off my whole couch shook! The bass was very tight (as tight as 20Hz can be) and I didn't hear any distress or other noises. I believe it could have handled more, but for my neighbours sake, I didn't try. :p
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post #9 of 13 Old 02-07-2005, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse S
Ilkka-

Can you post this in an attachment:

"RS dB-meter (custom calibration file)"
It wouldn't be good for your meter. Use those generic correction numbers if you don't have better ones. I can say that these corrections are SMALLER than those generic corrections (low end)... Way bigger at higher end.
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post #10 of 13 Old 02-07-2005, 03:15 PM
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Ilkka, did you hear any port noise during any of your testing? I can't get above 93dB at 20hz without port noise on my PB10.
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post #11 of 13 Old 02-07-2005, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by xcjago
Ilkka, did you hear any port noise during any of your testing? I can't get above 93dB at 20hz without port noise on my PB10.
Yes, some. You have to remember that it's just 3". When measuring THD I was in other room where my computer is, so I can't tell exact levels where port noise came noticeable. I can tell you that it rattlet my whole apartment though! Actually I couldn't hear any sound at 15Hz or 16Hz. You just felt that the air around you was pulsating slowly, freaky feeling. :D

During those compression tests there were lots of port noise. Also you could hear that the amp was limiting power. Or atleast that what it sounded.

During those Finding Nemo scenes I was near to sub and at -10dB there was just little port noise, but at -5dB it became very noticeable. Also you could hear that the woofer itself wasn't controlled properly anymore. M&C at -10dB didn't give any noticeable port noise.
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post #12 of 13 Old 02-08-2005, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The PB10 has finally left the building. *sigh*

Before it went, I did one test with Monster's Inc. "2319" scene. Also known as the "sock detonation" scene. Sub was calibrated at RL.

Sock detonation - 0dB - 103.6dB

R2 version seems to be atleast 10dB colder than the R1 which Edward used in his test. I had to bump the level all the way to RL, before I hit same numbers. RS-meter peaked (needle) about 100dB. Total pwr is again the real SPL value.

My own mains do sound quite strange now. Even though they go all the way down to 25Hz (F3), the "basspoint" seems to be at higher than with SVS. And that isn't a good thing.

Maybe some day one new PB12-Ultra will find it's way to my apartment... ;)
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post #13 of 13 Old 02-08-2005, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by craigsub
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Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black???:p :p :p

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