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post #61 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I just got off the phone, and have ordered a single F112 and dual F113's ... They should be here by Friday.

that's good news...maybe we'll be able to put this matter to right.

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post #62 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 10:13 AM
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Awesome!

I was about ready to post a picture of Tiny Tim with the caption, "If only someone could help us papa!"...

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post #63 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I just got off the phone, and have ordered a single F112 and dual F113's ... They should be here by Friday.

You go, boy!
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post #64 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

In the 1st 2 octaves HD is of little consequence and actually adds to the experience, IMHO, as most of it is subsonic, but from 20-30Hz, high THD is definitely audible. Whether or not it's offensive or pleasing is in the eye of the beholder as many 2 channel tube amp buffs and 2" analog tape recordists will attest.

Bosso

It depends on the spectral breakdown of the harmonics. The higher order and odd order stuff is subjectively perceived as more offensive.

Usually in a sealed subwoofer, the majority of the THD at VLF is derived from the 2nd order harmonic component, which is not terribly offensive subjectively.

Most of the subs I've measured have shown progressively less sound pressure from the upper order harmonic components, typically following a -12 dB/octave slope. So the 10th order and higher stuff is usually -40 dB or (much) lower relative to the fundamental.

But I have seen an interesting exception lately which does speak strongly to the value of the CEA 2010 standard.......

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post #65 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I just got off the phone, and have ordered a single F112 and dual F113's ... They should be here by Friday.


What, no Gotham? ... while your at it, why not throw an 1812 into the mix.

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
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post #66 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I just got off the phone, and have ordered a single F112 and dual F113's ... They should be here by Friday.

Sweeeet

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post #67 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 11:06 AM
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The Gotham won't be availabe until mid 2007.

gthomas
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post #68 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 11:18 AM
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Craig, great to see you ordered a couple of the JL's. Now we will have some real objective data and direct comparisons to put the JL's in their proper place in the pecking order of things--as opposed to speculation that we have now. Can't wait to see how these beauties stack up.

Above all, enjoy the sound.
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post #69 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 11:43 AM
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I read through this thread and the SV review. There seems to be some conflicting information regarding prices. The SV review states the f112 starts at $2220 but I've seen $2700 mentioned in another thread. The early press releases stated $2000. What's the definitive pricing on these subs?
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post #70 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 11:46 AM
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Aside from Ed Mullens statement, I gotta go back to the DIY section.All this hype on a little 13" sub that may or may not cost 2,500.00 is a bit much.

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post #71 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 12:29 PM
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The MSRP of the f112 is $2600 (satin black) and $2700 (gloss black). The SV review is incorrect on pricing (they printed the old pricing).

The MSRP of the f113 is $3200 (satin black) and $3300 (gloss black).

Dealers set the actual selling price, of course.
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post #72 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 12:39 PM
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I plan to post the full results of our recreation of TN's test here, but I realize that it may be met with skepticism due to it being manufacturer supplied data. I can tell you that from the first run of tests we did this morning, there was definitely something wrong during TN's f112 test. We're able to achieve 100.3dB at 25 Hz with less than 10% THD in our theater room at 2 meters. More to come.

I look forward to seeing Craig's test results as well.
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post #73 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

I plan to post the full results of our recreation of TN's test here, but I realize that it may be met with skepticism due to it being manufacturer supplied data. I can tell you that from the first run of tests we did this morning, there was definitely something wrong during TN's f112 test. We're able to achieve 100.3dB at 25 Hz with less than 10% THD in our theater room at 2 meters. More to come.

I look forward to seeing Craig's test results as well.

Is your room the same size as TN's? As I recall...he has a pretty big room.

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post #74 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 12:59 PM
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It measures 16' x 21' x 9.5' (about 3200 cu.ft.)

It's not as big, but it's not +40 dB smaller, either.
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post #75 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 01:02 PM
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It will be interesting to read the test results once Craig can test these.

Not many people have the means to assemble such a collection of subs who are willing to do this for the common man, who could never do these comparisons on our own. Bravo, Sir!
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post #76 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 01:07 PM
 
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I cannot seem to find the measurements in the Sound and Vision report ... The link takes one to the review, but there is no data posted.

And It looks like an outdoor GP test won't happen for the next 10 days ... nothing but RAIN in the forecast...
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post #77 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 01:15 PM
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It really is too bad that S&V reviews a relatively expensive product that most people who would buy would really be interested in the full test results printed and they bury it somewhere on the web site. I can see doing that on equipment that is not appealing to a more refined crowd but not on a $2000+ subwoofer.
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post #78 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

I cannot seem to find the measurements in the Sound and Vision report ... The link takes one to the review, but there is no data posted.

Something has changed on that site. They've pulled the test data.
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post #79 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 01:25 PM
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I could not find a frequency response spec on the JL site for the subs
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post #80 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 01:28 PM
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I believe S&V pulled it from their website pending a re-test.

I have a hard copy of it, so here's the claimed results:

Tom Nousaine wrote in "Test Bench: JL Audio Fathom f113" on the S&V website:
Quote:


Frequency response at 2 meters: 24-103 Hz +/- 2.5 dB
Bass Limits (lowest freq. and maximum SPL with limit of 10% distortion at 2 meters in a large room): 32 Hz at 106 dB SPL
107 dB average SPL from 32-62 Hz.
107.1 dB maximum SPL at 62 Hz.
"Bandwidth uniformity": 98%

I measured the JL Audio Fathom f112 subwoofer's bass limits with it set to maximum bandwidth and full gain and placed in the optimal corner of a 7,500 cu.ft. room. In a smaller room you could expect 2 to 3 Hz deeper extension and as much as a 3dB greater sound pressure level (SPL).

Although the f112 has a relatively high low-frequency output (104dB or greater at every frequency from 32 Hz up to the top of its range), it was not able to reproduce 25Hz with less than 10% distortion. It can make plenty of sound at this frequency (104 dB), but with 40% distortion where the harmonics are approaching the amplitude of the fundamental. Nonetheless, it delivered a solid 107 dB maximum output at 32 Hz and had excellent, even output across its frequency range, measuring 98% bass uniformity. Average output was a strong 107dB from 32 Hz to 62 Hz.

We believe that the SPL and distortion data he arrived at are erroneous or the result of a damaged product.
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post #81 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 03:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

What, no Gotham? ... while your at it, why not throw an 1812 into the mix.

Maybe next year ...

Seriously, Getting these subs here is going to add a lot to the overall subwoofer shootout, and kudos to Manville for approving the JL subs being added to the mix here.

Of course, this does mean watching WOTW for the 12,784th time this weekend ...
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post #82 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Of course, this does mean watching WOTW for the 12,784th time this weekend ...

Oh yeah...twist your arm.

mziegler and I did some comparative listening last night of the Ascend CMT-340SE and NHT Classic Three. After we were done, we cranked up WOTW, and we weren't even comparing subs.

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post #83 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Oh yeah...twist your arm.

mziegler and I did some comparative listening last night of the Ascend CMT-340SE and NHT Classic Three. After we were done, we cranked up WOTW, and we weren't even comparing subs.

I know this isn't the speaker forum, but I have been seriously considering the Ascends. How did they sound and how did they compare to the NHTs?

Randy
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post #84 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nethomas View Post

The Gotham won't be availabe until mid 2007.

I am confused by this statement. The Gotham won best sound at CEDIA for 2004. How can it not be available until 2007? Could someone in the know elaborate?
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post #85 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:23 PM
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Here are our measurement results following TN's methodology as closely as possible.
LL
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post #86 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTDIGITY View Post

I could not find a frequency response spec on the JL site for the subs

While this may seem to contradict my earlier posts in this thread, it does not...

This is not unheard of and IMO not necessarily a bad move by JL. The subwoofer "specs" published by many manufacturers are all but worthless. And many consumers unfortunately look at "25 - 120 Hz" listed by one sub manufacturer and "18 - 120 Hz" by another and are drawn towards the latter, even though the specs on the latter are exagerrated, or inaccurate, or +/- 10dB. Not publishing a spec *may* encourage consumers to seek them out and listen. There reasoning could be "why bother to publish a spec when almost everyone lies".
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post #87 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

I am confused by this statement. The Gotham won best sound at CEDIA for 2004. How can it not be available until 2007? Could someone in the know elaborate?

We experienced considerable delays in bringing this product to market. We fully expect to ship in 2007 around mid-year.
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post #88 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

There reasoning could be "why bother to publish a spec when almost everyone lies".

Yup, you got it!

They go really low and don't play very high and they stay pretty darned flat in between.
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post #89 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

We experienced considerable delays in bringing this product to market. We fully expect to ship in 2007 around mid-year.

Well, being in the industry, and having seen some major time lags between product announcements and product shipments, I have to give you some type of an award for the best product delay .
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post #90 of 7225 Old 10-25-2006, 04:45 PM
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Thanks, QQQ! Did we set some kind of record???

It is certainly embarrassing on one level and we apologize to those who are eagerly anticipating the product, but we have this damned policy about making sure it's absolutely right before we ship it.
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