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post #30001 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I find your post quite deceiving, Let me ask you this. What makes YOU think that the SB2000 is NOT outdated? It’s clearly a several year old subwoofer with technology that is several years old as well.
He's already answered that question, so stop being confrontational. You made your decision on which sub you want, so let's just move forward and cut the b.s.. Shall we?

Now let's all have a Merry Christmas and enjoy ourselves.

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post #30002 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 10:23 AM
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I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks
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post #30003 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks


The piano black is a dust and finger print magnet and is easy to scratch but looks pretty too. The black ash is not bad looking either. The latter requires less maintenance IMO.


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post #30004 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks
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The piano black is a dust and finger print magnet and is easy to scratch but looks pretty too. The black ash is not bad looking either. The latter requires less maintenance IMO.


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I chose black ash. One other consideration for those with front projection (as I have) and sub placement below the screen...possible undesirable/distracting light reflections off of the glossy finish.

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post #30005 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks
My Piano black looks the best jack. Just a fast wipe down once every 2 weeks.

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post #30006 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by d-rail34 View Post
He's already answered that question, so stop being confrontational. You made your decision on which sub you want, so let's just move forward and cut the b.s.. Shall we?

Now let's all have a Merry Christmas and enjoy ourselves.
My SB 1000 and SB 2000 in my bedroom kick very well. Nothing outdated about them. I am sure a SB 3000 would even add more kick. I did have a SB13 Ultra in my bedroom and i think the two SB 1000 and 2000 sound better.

Maybe 2 SB 3000's are my next buy to try out.
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post #30007 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post
My SB 1000 and SB 2000 in my bedroom kick very well. Nothing outdated about them. I am sure a SB 3000 would even add more kick. I did have a SB13 Ultra in my bedroom and i think the two SB 1000 and 2000 sound better.

Maybe 2 SB 3000's are my next buy to try out.
The PB2000 is what I was considering at first, but I was fortunate to find a VERY SLIGHTLY used PB12 Plus for the same price, so I couldn't pass that up.

With that said, it looks like the 3000 series is what replaced the Plus line. Although, it's dual ported, and has the 13" driver. Power output (RMS/Peak) is pretty much the same...and of course, a much better price tag. Lol

If I were in the market for another ID sub, I'd definitely give the PB3000 a go, as it looks like it may pair nicely with my PB12 Plus. But, I think my next adventure is going to be a pair of 18" DIY subs.

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post #30008 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks
I don't regret my choice of piano black. Dust and paw prints do tend to stick, but a quick swipe with a disinfecting wipe every few days clears that right up and takes 5 seconds to do.

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post #30009 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 03:44 PM
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My Piano black subs never get touched. Just dust em off every 2 weeks.

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post #30010 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 03:58 PM
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Under what circumstance is a particular Subwoofer model considered an "Overkill"?
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post #30011 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
Under what circumstance is a particular Subwoofer model considered an "Overkill"?


Around here “none” but generally people say that when you never get close to utilizing the output of the sub but having headroom is never bad thing.


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post #30012 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
Under what circumstance is a particular Subwoofer model considered an "Overkill"?

Around here “none” but generally people say that when you never get close to utilizing the output of the sub but having headroom is never bad thing



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post #30013 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
Under what circumstance is a particular Subwoofer model considered an "Overkill"?
That will be different for different people, but I think it's unlikely that a single sealed subwoofer will be overkill in all circumstances. If you plan on playing action thrillers, you will need everything you have, even if it's overkill in other situations.
I think you are over thinking this. Get the SB3000 and enjoy it. Even it's not better 90% of the time, there's that other 10%. $300 for peace of mind. Priceless.
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post #30014 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 04:49 PM
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That will be different for different people, but I think it's unlikely that a single sealed subwoofer will be overkill in all circumstances. If you plan on playing action thrillers, you will need everything you have, even if it's overkill in other situations.
I think you are over thinking this. Get the SB3000 and enjoy it. Even it's not better 90% of the time, there's that other 10%. $300 for peace of mind. Priceless.
The price difference between the SB2000 and the SB3000 is actually $200 for my personal case as opposed to being a price difference of $300 so thats why i think its a no brainer to get an SB2000 at this time when the SB3000 was just released but its the price that's quite steep regardless on the SB3000 ($899 shipped after my 100$ store credit) and every time i think about it i'm like ugh i never spent this much on a subwoofer.
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post #30015 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
The price difference between the SB2000 and the SB3000 is actually $200 for my personal case as opposed to being a price difference of $300 so thats why i think its a no brainer to get an SB2000 at this time when the SB3000 was just released but its the price that's quite steep regardless on the SB3000 ($899 shipped after my 100$ store credit) and every time i think about it i'm like ugh i never spent this much on a subwoofer.
You are over thinking it. As a stranger on the internet, I am ORDERING you to get the SB-3000 and ENJOY IT!



DO IT!
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post #30016 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks
I've had the SB12-NSD with the piano gloss black finish for even years, and it looks great! When I ordered the two SB-3000 it was with the piano gloss black finish.

The piano gloss is easily scratchable so be careful what you put on top. Stuff you put on the subwoofer should have some self-adhesive pads underneath it.
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post #30017 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 10:04 PM
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Just realized I can't set my pc-4000 on the movie preset AND have it set the port tuning to extended. I figured the movie setting would be the one pushing for the deepest tones. Can someone explain to me (like im 10 lol) why they would have the extended setting not set for the movie preset? And what setting exactly IS the movie preset at, say different then the music one. Thanks in advance

*also just remembered, if I have the foam in one port for the extended setting, but dont take it out when I have it set in the movie preset, how much would that effect the bass? Should I just remove the foam seeing as 95% of the use is movies

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post #30018 of 31368 Old 12-25-2018, 10:21 PM
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Hi,

I think that we may have talked about this before, but both Gene and I upgraded from PB13's to PB16's. The difference in output is all below 35Hz. The PB16 has about 4db more SPL from 35Hz down to about 15Hz. It is hard to know how much that additional 4db would be worth to someone. But, the PB16 definitely has more bass weight than the PB13. I was immediately aware of that when I upgraded.

In my case, I thought that the newer model had some cool features, and I liked the idea of having the flagship subwoofer. I already had enough headroom before the upgrade, so the additional low-frequency SPL was simply a bonus. If I recall correctly, you have been using a 20Hz port tune, because in your large room, you haven't been able to get quite as much headroom as you need to run in the Extended mode, without port chuffing. (I hope that I am remembering that correctly from a year or so ago.)

The advantage of the PB16's is that they would give you an extra 4db to play with for those lowest frequencies. That translates to a perceptual increase in loudness of about 80%. The disadvantage is that the PB16's have the same 3.5" ports that the PB13's have, so they would be slightly more prone to chuff if you pushed them harder. But, even in a worst case scenario, you could still run the PB16's in the Standard 20Hz mode and have 4db more from 35Hz down to 20Hz, and slightly below, without worrying about port chuffing.

If I were really curious about this, and if my credit card could stand it, I would buy two PB16's on the free trial period, before trading-in or selling my PB13's for whatever I could get for them. If the PB16's didn't give me a significant improvement, I would send them back. If they did, several possibilities would present themselves, including keeping the PB13's, and running all four subs together.

That would represent a very significant increase in headroom, and would definitely allow you to use the 16Hz Extended mode. The Extended mode makes a real difference in my opinion. I have a similar size room to yours (on concrete), and I know that I could not enjoy the extreme subwoofer boosts that I use at times if I only had two Ultra's. The combination of a really large room, a concrete pad, and a keen enjoyment of low-bass special effects, simply requires more firepower than most people will ever need. Just a thought!

Regards,
Mike
The thing is... if I demo them I'm sure they're not going back .
I plan to get them anyway next time they're on sale for $1899
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post #30019 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks
Haha I'l answer two different things here.

The first SVS subs I purchased were a pair of PC12 Plus's (replaced by the 3000 series). The PC 12's replaced an @ 15 year-old Klipsch KSW 12. At first, I only hooked up one PC12, in exactly the same spot the Klipsch was. JUST. WOW. The Klipsch wasn't even in the same ZIP code sound-wise, the increase in both quality and quantity of bass was staggering! I would say the jump from the Klipsch to the PC12 was more pronounced than my next jump from PC12 to PB16's; and that's not to say the PB16's don't sound like they're 2 models higher in the lineup. They do, to me. But if I were to quantify it, from the Klipsch to the PC12 sounded like a 4-model jump.

Next, about the Gloss finish....I asked the SVS rep on the phone how to care for the finish, and he responded "Treat it like a car finish". AH. MAN CARD ENGAGED. I GOT THIS. I keep a microfiber cloth on top of each sub, and once or twice a week I use the cloth like a chamois on a car......NO hand pressure, "flop" the cloth on top of the sub and lightly drag it across with its' own weight only. Seems to work pretty well so far!
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post #30020 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 05:38 AM
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Just realized I can't set my pc-4000 on the movie preset AND have it set the port tuning to extended. I figured the movie setting would be the one pushing for the deepest tones. Can someone explain to me (like im 10 lol) why they would have the extended setting not set for the movie preset? And what setting exactly IS the movie preset at, say different then the music one. Thanks in advance

*also just remembered, if I have the foam in one port for the extended setting, but dont take it out when I have it set in the movie preset, how much would that effect the bass? Should I just remove the foam seeing as 95% of the use is movies
Hi,

I would check directly with SVS, on this issue, if I were you. If the Movie preset won't operate when your PC4000 is in the Extended mode, then it sounds as if something is not operating correctly. I have a PB4000 that I have always run in the Extended mode, with the Movie setting. (I tried the Music setting, which adds a boost at 63Hz, but didn't need it for my system.) All of my PB16's are also in the Extended mode, with the Movie preset. Your DSP may be malfunctioning if you can't use that setting in the Extended mode.

The DSP you use: Extended, Standard, or Sealed, always needs to match the port plugs. Once you get the problem with your PC4000 sorted-out, I would just leave the DSP and the port plug in the Extended, one-port plugged, setting if I were you. And, you should be able to cycle back and forth between the Music preset and the Movie preset, whenever you wish.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #30021 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I would check directly with SVS, on this issue, if I were you. If the Movie preset won't operate when your PC4000 is in the Extended mode, then it sounds as if something is not operating correctly. I have a PB4000 that I have always run in the Extended mode, with the Movie setting. (I tried the Music setting, which adds a boost at 63Hz, but didn't need it for my system.) All of my PB16's are also in the Extended mode, with the Movie preset. Your DSP may be malfunctioning if you can't use that setting in the Extended mode.

The DSP you use: Extended, Standard, or Sealed, always needs to match the port plugs. Once you get the problem with your PC4000 sorted-out, I would just leave the DSP and the port plug in the Extended, one-port plugged, setting if I were you. And, you should be able to cycle back and forth between the Music preset and the Movie preset, whenever you wish.

Regards,
Mike
I am noticing that 4000 series and 16 Ultra series owners are stating and recommending the Extended mode (2 ports) vs. the Standard 3 ports open. Is it because of the extension? Is there a difference in the audio quality of the bass? Have you taken measurements and the results are showing significant more output in Extended mode that is just preferable? What about in the 40 to 80Hz range, is there any noticeable differences in those frequencies between the Extended and Standard configuration?

Thanks
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post #30022 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theheadsn View Post
Just realized I can't set my pc-4000 on the movie preset AND have it set the port tuning to extended. I figured the movie setting would be the one pushing for the deepest tones. Can someone explain to me (like im 10 lol) why they would have the extended setting not set for the movie preset? And what setting exactly IS the movie preset at, say different then the music one. Thanks in advance

*also just remembered, if I have the foam in one port for the extended setting, but dont take it out when I have it set in the movie preset, how much would that effect the bass? Should I just remove the foam seeing as 95% of the use is movies
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I would check directly with SVS, on this issue, if I were you. If the Movie preset won't operate when your PC4000 is in the Extended mode, then it sounds as if something is not operating correctly. I have a PB4000 that I have always run in the Extended mode, with the Movie setting. (I tried the Music setting, which adds a boost at 63Hz, but didn't need it for my system.) All of my PB16's are also in the Extended mode, with the Movie preset. Your DSP may be malfunctioning if you can't use that setting in the Extended mode.

The DSP you use: Extended, Standard, or Sealed, always needs to match the port plugs. Once you get the problem with your PC4000 sorted-out, I would just leave the DSP and the port plug in the Extended, one-port plugged, setting if I were you. And, you should be able to cycle back and forth between the Music preset and the Movie preset, whenever you wish.

Regards,
Mike
I would try a "soft reset" first, that is unplugging the subwoofer at least 10 minutes. It's amazing how many problems can be fixed by this action just in general. Worth trying before calling SVS.
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post #30023 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Theheadsn View Post
Just realized I can't set my pc-4000 on the movie preset AND have it set the port tuning to extended. I figured the movie setting would be the one pushing for the deepest tones. Can someone explain to me (like im 10 lol) why they would have the extended setting not set for the movie preset? And what setting exactly IS the movie preset at, say different then the music one. Thanks in advance

*also just remembered, if I have the foam in one port for the extended setting, but dont take it out when I have it set in the movie preset, how much would that effect the bass? Should I just remove the foam seeing as 95% of the use is movies
Not totally sure this is abnormal behavior. My understanding is that the movie and music presets are not anything special other than pre-named presets. The difference is that the Music preset has PEQ set for the 63hz boost as mentioned. Otherwise I don’t believe there is any special DSP stuff happening. Whenever I change a setting from the Music or Movie mode the preset name changes to “none” indicating you have deviated from the preset as currently saved. You have to then save your customizations to the Movie or Music preset to overwrite it with changes. Hope that makes sense and is actually correct.
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post #30024 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by H Stevens View Post
I am noticing that 4000 series and 16 Ultra series owners are stating and recommending the Extended mode (2 ports) vs. the Standard 3 ports open. Is it because of the extension? Is there a difference in the audio quality of the bass? Have you taken measurements and the results are showing significant more output in Extended mode that is just preferable? What about in the 40 to 80Hz range, is there any noticeable differences in those frequencies between the Extended and Standard configuration?

Thanks
Hi,

Yes, the additional extension is the reason why the Extended mode is almost universally recommended. The subwoofers in the Ultra series are specifically designed to have the most SPL, that the subwoofers are capable of producing, below 20Hz. Those frequencies require bigger cabinet volumes, more powerful amplifiers, and lower port tunes in order to have high SPL numbers. The Standard mode is available to people who prefer it for various reasons, including a lot of room gain below 20Hz (typically from a very small room). But, this is strictly a YMMV issue which everyone needs to decide for himself.

The review I am linking for you is of the PB16, but you can find one for the PB4000 (the PC4000 would be essentially the same) that would demonstrate similar results. You can look at the shape of the frequency response, for the different port tunes, in the graph shown at the top of the page. That will show you the extra extension of the 16Hz mode. Further down the page, you will see a table that shows the max output for the different modes. As demonstrated in that table, the Standard 20Hz port tune has about a 1.5db advantage from 20Hz to about 40Hz. Above that, the max output is more equal.

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...r/measurements

A 1.5db advantage in that narrow frequency range may be audible, but it is relatively negligible to most people. The difference at 16Hz, however is ~9db more output, in favor of the Extended mode, and that advantage continues for several Hz below the tuning point of 16Hz. That difference is not negligible at all. With the right low-frequency content, it is a very substantial difference! And, even with movie content that doesn't reach quite as low, with quite as much SPL, there can be some difference in the "bass weight" between the two modes.

I believe that the Extended mode may also produce relatively more low-bass tactile response (TR) than the Standard mode, due to the additional constriction of the air flow through only two ports, rather than three. I think that constriction would be expected to increase the particle velocity, which creates TR, although I don't know whether anyone has tested that in a specific way. If I am correct, that additional low-bass TR may also be a beneficial attribute for many people.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #30025 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 08:27 AM
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I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks

Not sure what it is, but as far as piano black finishes go, the SVS finish is pretty tough, and not scratching as easily as some finishes. I do keep mine covered when not in use (cats - they fear them when on, but sit on them when off, so.....). I use a nice Korean microfibre cloth to remove dust, etc., before recovering. This has done a nice job for some time now. The piano black is no more a dust magnet than any other finish, but it does show more, and yes - typically more expensive. The look works in my room though, I like it a lot.

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post #30026 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 09:08 AM
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I just pulled the trigger on the SB3000 with the SVS SoundPath isolation feet system to go with it. Should be delivered Friday/Saturday. I look forward to adding it to my definitive system as I’ve been without a subwoofer for over a year now. I just couldn’t justify buying the SB2000 when the price difference between it and the SB3000 was only 200 bucks.
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post #30027 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 09:37 AM
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Merry Christmas all.

Question on PEQ presets what frequencies do you recommend boosting for movies (I have the SB4000).

Right now I have a 3 dB boost at 63hz Q factor 2.2 to get more chest thump bass. For explosions I read that frequency is around 30hz?

Thanks


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post #30028 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
I have a question; I’m pretty sure I’m going to order the sb3000 in black ash tomorrow however, these of you that own an svs sub with the piano gloss black finish, How has your experience been with that glossy finish thus far?, do any of you regret going with the piano black instead of the black ash? It looks like the piano black would be a dust magnet which is why I’m going with the safe choice of black ash plus I’d be saving 100 bucks

I have a PB16 in gloss black. Glad I chose that color. Don't regret it one bit. I had Paradigm Studio 100's one time in black ash. I never liked how they looked. But that's just me. What's really important is the way something sounds...

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post #30029 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 11:18 AM
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I'm going to ask for some suggestions on sub placement.

I have two PB-2000 and two PB10-NSD.

Below is an overhead of my room. The speakers are shown in the initial positions I had them set in, but was underwhelmed.

The problem is that the bass seems concentrated in the area marked by the orange square. It's pretty anemic in the front row (MLP is front center) compared to the back row.

So, I moved the PB10's to where the blue squares are and it wasn't really any better.

I contacted SVS Chat, and they suggested moving the PB-2000's to where the red squares are, but that didn't really make much of a difference.

So, I don't really know what to try next. I think I'm fighting a room mode "null" at this point.

Does anybody have any suggestions on what to try to improve the bass response in the front row?

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post #30030 of 31368 Old 12-26-2018, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stikle View Post
I'm going to ask for some suggestions on sub placement.

I have two PB-2000 and two PB10-NSD.

Below is an overhead of my room. The speakers are shown in the initial positions I had them set in, but was underwhelmed.

The problem is that the bass seems concentrated in the area marked by the orange square. It's pretty anemic in the front row (MLP is front center) compared to the back row.

So, I moved the PB10's to where the blue squares are and it wasn't really any better.

I contacted SVS Chat, and they suggested moving the PB-2000's to where the red squares are, but that didn't really make much of a difference.

So, I don't really know what to try next. I think I'm fighting a room mode "null" at this point.

Does anybody have any suggestions on what to try to improve the bass response in the front row?

Perhaps the article https://www.harman.com/sites/default...s/multsubs.pdf will give you some ideas to try out. The author tries multiple placements of multiple subwoofers, theoretical as well as experimental.
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