Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 1005 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 44485Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #30121 of 31371 Old 01-05-2019, 05:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,286
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2098 Post(s)
Liked: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzle24 View Post
It sucks having the fireplace so dominant, but it's actually easier to live with than the picture suggests.
Next house will definitely have a dedicated theater room.
Do you use much, that fireplace?

If not, you could move your system in front of those windows.
This would give you a better layout for music and HT. Why not enjoy them to the max of there capability, especially with such nice audio gears.

The way I would do-it, is using your left main speaker as the right one. Moving the right main speaker near the sub, under the left window.
Center the Monitor and center speaker, to the two mains.
If the subs work well for you, big possibility that leaving them at there current locations. Will also work well.
And also to rearrange the furniture, to suit your new listening arrangement. Having your couch with your MLP facing the system, and the other one facing the fireplace

Just an idea to think about


Ray

Last edited by darthray; 01-05-2019 at 06:10 PM.
darthray is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #30122 of 31371 Old 01-05-2019, 06:52 PM
Member
 
Nuggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Valencia, PA
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Dude, that room is massive..beautiful though...makes your PB16s actually look small which is a ridiculous statement. Do they pressurize that room?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzle24 View Post
Thanks man. I'm loving the duals.

I'm running what SVS recommended for my speakers. Crossover for my mains (702S2) is at 60hz and speakers are all set to small.
Sub volume is set to -12 for movies and -14 for 2CH music.

I don't have any builtin calibration (I'm running Rotel), but I was able to set speaker distances, etc.

I have a fairly large room (33X27) which is probably what's driving my need for a higher volume. here is my setup.

Cheers......Brian
Nuggles is offline  
post #30123 of 31371 Old 01-05-2019, 07:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Matt2026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 6,667
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 839 Post(s)
Liked: 24267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sizzle24 View Post
I have a fairly large room (33X27) which is probably what's driving my need for a higher volume. here is my setup.

Cheers......Brian
Very nice...

I could just about fit my whole house in there
BruZZi likes this.

Regards, Ken (Retired)
9.1.) Denon 4520CI; Samsung 55H8000; OPPO 203; 6x SVS Ultra BS,
Ultra Center; FH 2xPolk; Rythmik F12; CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD (x2)
2.1 Ch.) Nak RE-1, CR7A, BD F7500, Aircom T-8, Denon 300F/Ortofon 2M Bronze;
ADS L1290(x2); PINNACLE BABYBOOMER SUB, PANAMAX MR4300
Matt2026 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #30124 of 31371 Old 01-06-2019, 03:40 PM
Member
 
sizzle24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Do you use much, that fireplace?

If not, you could move your system in front of those windows.
This would give you a better layout for music and HT. Why not enjoy them to the max of there capability, especially with such nice audio gears.

The way I would do-it, is using your left main speaker as the right one. Moving the right main speaker near the sub, under the left window.
Center the Monitor and center speaker, to the two mains.
If the subs work well for you, big possibility that leaving them at there current locations. Will also work well.
And also to rearrange the furniture, to suit your new listening arrangement. Having your couch with your MLP facing the system, and the other one facing the fireplace

Just an idea to think about


Ray
My next house will have a dedicated theater room so I'm not skimping on gear knowing it will be put to better use soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggles View Post
Dude, that room is massive..beautiful though...makes your PB16s actually look small which is a ridiculous statement. Do they pressurize that room?
Thanks man.
The subs are fantastic for what I was trying to accomplish. I could have went for more powerful subs but I also like my house to look decorated and classy. These subs have great sound AND look phenomenal. All of my gear have Blue LED backlighting so the whole thing ties together beautifully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
Very nice...

I could just about fit my whole house in there
Haha.....thanks man.
Matt2026 likes this.

Sony XBR75X940D / DUAL SVS PB16 ULTRA SUBWOOFERS / BOWERS AND WILKINS 702S2 MAINS /
BOWERS AND WILKINS HTM71 S2 CENTER CHANNEL / BOWERS AND WILKINS CCM7.5 SURROUNDS /
ROTEL RMB-1585 POWER AMP / ROTEL RSP-1582 PROCESSOR/ PANAMAX M5400 / PANASONIC UB900 4K PLAYER / CAMBRIDGE 851N NETWORK PLAYER
sizzle24 is offline  
post #30125 of 31371 Old 01-06-2019, 06:37 PM
Senior Member
 
hpnas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 205
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Planning out my home theater and need some advice from you geniuses.....my room is quite large at 5,000+ cubic feet (approx. 25 x 25 x 9). I'm stuck with in ceiling speakers as that is what the previous owner had wired up and my wife is sick of seeing speakers all around. I am in the process of replacing the 5 in-ceiling (3 up front and 2 in rear) with Golden Ear Invisa 7000s to get the best possible sound out of my in ceiling

I am leaning towards a PB3000 but like the smaller footprint of the SB3000. I am by no means a bass head and not looking to rattle and/or shake the room, just want some clean smooth low end to movies / TV. Primary use will be movies / TV and not really any music. Also if it matters, we are going to have custom built ins down the road and will most likely put my sub inside a cabinet (I know, I know...)

Given all that do you think a PB3000 or SB3000 will do the trick?
hpnas is offline  
post #30126 of 31371 Old 01-06-2019, 08:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene4ht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 3,952
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1970 Post(s)
Liked: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpnas View Post
Planning out my home theater and need some advice from you geniuses.....my room is quite large at 5,000+ cubic feet (approx. 25 x 25 x 9). I'm stuck with in ceiling speakers as that is what the previous owner had wired up and my wife is sick of seeing speakers all around. I am in the process of replacing the 5 in-ceiling (3 up front and 2 in rear) with Golden Ear Invisa 7000s to get the best possible sound out of my in ceiling

I am leaning towards a PB3000 but like the smaller footprint of the SB3000. I am by no means a bass head and not looking to rattle and/or shake the room, just want some clean smooth low end to movies / TV. Primary use will be movies / TV and not really any music. Also if it matters, we are going to have custom built ins down the road and will most likely put my sub inside a cabinet (I know, I know...)

Given all that do you think a PB3000 or SB3000 will do the trick?
With movies being the primary use case in a 5Kcf space, there is no doubt or debate, you will not be satisfied with the performance of anything less than the PB3000. That’s the short answer. I’ll defer to other contributors to provide the technical details.
darthray, mthomas47 and Magellan55 like this.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
gene4ht is online now  
post #30127 of 31371 Old 01-06-2019, 09:04 PM
Member
 
RobZL1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 59
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Rob,

I think that Delija's comparison chart is extremely helpful. But, it may also help to put some of the numbers into context. Extension is sort of a confusing concept, which different people use in very different ways. The PC2000 can reach down to 16Hz, but it just can't produce very much volume at that frequency. The PC4000, in Extended mode, can produce very high volume levels at 16Hz, and it can reach down to about 10Hz in a room, although the volume level will be much lower at that frequency than it was at 16Hz.

The difference between their low-frequency capabilities, though, is very significant....
.
.
.
Regards,
Mike
Mike, thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response. I have read it like 10x in the last couple of days. I know people ask the same questions over and over here, but I'm glad you senior members are still so generous with your time and experience.
And... I'm still deciding on PC2000 vs PC4000! I suspect dual 2000's are very reasonable for my current environment, and since I have shared walls, having more SPL or lower extension isn't necessarily the most responsible choice. But I also like the idea of going big now (a 4000) instead of later to save the trouble of upgrades, etc. I think what would settle the matter for me is understanding if gaming even takes advantage of lower frequencies at all? If not, then I have no need. Its hard to say, though, because I haven't found any data. 7.1 has been around for more than a decade on game systems, and Atmos is clawing its way into the gaming scene too. So sophisticated gaming sound is here, but I have no idea of the frequency response the developers are programming into the games. (My focus is on war games, i.e Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc, where explosions, helicopters, etc, are common).
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

AVR: Denon X4400H 7.1.4; 80% gaming, 20% movies, <1% music
Speakers: Klipsch RP-450C; L/R Klipsch RP-250F; Side & Rear: Klipsch R-51M; Height: JBL 2.5" satellites; SVS PC-4000;
Platform: Xbox One X on LG E8 55" OLED
Room from hell: 16x16x18' open loft, thin walls, hard surfaces, lots of street noise
RobZL1 is offline  
post #30128 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 04:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CHASLS2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Tampa FL area
Posts: 3,137
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1095 Post(s)
Liked: 491
I may get a SB 3000 for my bedroom and see how it does.

Sony 65" A1E Pioneer Elite DV-59 AVI
OPPO203,103&83 Sony BD player
Pioneer Elite SC61 AVR Acurus 200x 3
Paradigm 60V5'S 490 CC V5
B&W 685 S2's 2 SVS subs
CHASLS2 is offline  
post #30129 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 09:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,626
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1311 Post(s)
Liked: 254
PC4000 on side? Any anecdotal feedback?

I know this has been asked before-and some people have said they have “heard” of people doing this-but has anyone themselves or is anyone currently using a CYLINDER SUB ON ITS SIDE?

I am considering putting both hidden on side behind the back and corners of sectional between it and the wall for perfect WAF or at the very least putting one on side and one standing at front

Any actual forum members doing this now and if so, any feedback to report?

One of the concerns is changing sound quality because of the change of orientation.
Another is if it might damage the side since it will not be on the “feet” that comes with it


Any help is greatly appreciated to see if this would be a good option or not

Sony 75Z9D, Samsung 65JS9500
Monitor Audio Gold 200(2), Gold 350, Gold 50(2), Gold CT280-IDC(4). SVS PC4000(2).
NAD 758, Anthem MCA-5
Apple TV 4K, Nvidea Shield. Mac Mini (2018). Samsung UHD BluRay and X-Box One X. 14 Sonos
Chirosamsung is offline  
post #30130 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 10:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
confinoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Shaker Heights, OH
Posts: 1,942
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1206 Post(s)
Liked: 1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I know this has been asked before-and some people have said they have “heard” of people doing this-but has anyone themselves or is anyone currently using a CYLINDER SUB ON ITS SIDE?

I am considering putting both hidden on side behind the back and corners of sectional between it and the wall for perfect WAF or at the very least putting one on side and one standing at front

Any actual forum members doing this now and if so, any feedback to report?

One of the concerns is changing sound quality because of the change of orientation.
Another is if it might damage the side since it will not be on the “feet” that comes with it


Any help is greatly appreciated to see if this would be a good option or not
While I haven't done this with my PC-4000s or prior PC12+s I have been reading this forum for years now and can say that multiple forum members have placed cylinders on their side without issue and SVS has even acknowledged this is ok to do. Just don't lay it on the amp side. You may need to place something on the sides to keep it from rolling. It should not alter sound quality but if currently calibrated vertically I would re-run calibration.

LG OLED65C7P (Chad B Calibrated) | Denon X4300H | Tivo Roamio OTA | Nvidia Shield | ATV 4K | Oppo UDP-203 | Plex server
5.2.4 | Front Klipsch RP-160M x2 | Center Klipsch RP-450C | Surrounds Klipsch RP-150M x2 | Atmos Klipsch RP-140SA x 4 | Subs SVS PC-4000 x 2
confinoj is online now  
post #30131 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 11:52 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,140
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5381 Post(s)
Liked: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZL1 View Post
Mike, thank you for your thoughtful and thorough response. I have read it like 10x in the last couple of days. I know people ask the same questions over and over here, but I'm glad you senior members are still so generous with your time and experience.
And... I'm still deciding on PC2000 vs PC4000! I suspect dual 2000's are very reasonable for my current environment, and since I have shared walls, having more SPL or lower extension isn't necessarily the most responsible choice. But I also like the idea of going big now (a 4000) instead of later to save the trouble of upgrades, etc. I think what would settle the matter for me is understanding if gaming even takes advantage of lower frequencies at all? If not, then I have no need. Its hard to say, though, because I haven't found any data. 7.1 has been around for more than a decade on game systems, and Atmos is clawing its way into the gaming scene too. So sophisticated gaming sound is here, but I have no idea of the frequency response the developers are programming into the games. (My focus is on war games, i.e Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc, where explosions, helicopters, etc, are common).
You are very welcome, Rob! I am not a gamer and haven't really been able to find out anything about the low-frequency programming used in them. But, I would expect any special effects involving explosions, helicopters, tanks, artillery fire, etc to benefit from more robust low-frequency SPL and TR. Another factor to consider is the Atmos angle. As more channels are added, the demand on the subwoofers grows. That might also lead you to want more subwoofage in the future. I also suspect that war games are becoming more sophisticated in their effort to simulate more realistic experiences. I would expect that, if war games did not previously have a lot of low-bass, more will be added in the future in order to enhance realism.

I am a little concerned about the shared walls. The lowest bass frequencies travel further, so the PC4000 would increase your opportunity to annoy your neighbors. And, you are on a suspended wood floor (if you are in a loft) so you should be getting pretty good low-bass TR. But, the flip side of all that is that, if you are hesitating because you do kind of want to try a PC4000, I'm not sure that you won't regret it if you don't go ahead and upgrade.

Part of the reason that most of the people on the various subwoofer threads advise others to go bigger to start with, is that most of us have been through multiple upgrades ourselves. And, I believe that most people upgrade in order to obtain more low-frequency performance, and not simply for more SPL. (Having dual subwoofers for enhanced frequency response is a slightly separate issue from that of upgrading for more performance.)

If you really feel the pull of a PC4000, I think that I would do it if I were you. (I already know that I would do it if I were myself. ) If necessary, you could always run it in the Standard 20Hz mode, and you would still have a lower frequency response than you do now with your PC2000. That has about a 22Hz port tune. At times, though, you might want to cut loose with the Extended 16Hz mode, and that could be very exciting. I would still plan on eventually adding a second PC4000, but I agree with you that the upgrade path is a little easier if you start with the right model, and then just add a second one when you can.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike

(Note: In most cases, I don't think that it would hurt to do an Audyssey calibration with a sub in the Standard mode, and then at times to run the sub in the Extended mode. I have seen people experiment successfully with that, measuring the FR with REW to determine the effect. What that generally does is to allow more room gain, for a larger low-bass house curve. Since your loft volume is pretty large, I think that might work well when you really want to cut loose.)
gene4ht, darthray and bigzee3 like this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #30132 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 11:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Liked: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
While I haven't done this with my PC-4000s or prior PC12+s I have been reading this forum for years now and can say that multiple forum members have placed cylinders on their side without issue and SVS has even acknowledged this is ok to do. Just don't lay it on the amp side. You may need to place something on the sides to keep it from rolling. It should not alter sound quality but if currently calibrated vertically I would re-run calibration.
I never laid my PC12 Plus's on their side, either. However, I'd think you could use part of SVS's own shipping box for that purpose if you did.

There are 2 different "half-circle" sections of foam in the box when you open it up.The half covering the sub you remove, and the other half stays in the box as you un-box the sub. The part that comes out of the box I'd think would work nicely as a "cradle" were you to lay the sub on its' side.

TCL 55P607, OPPO UDP-203, 4K Fire TV, Marantz 6011, Rotel 1075 (Atmos)
DefTech SM 65 (X7), SVS PB16 Ultra (X2), SVS Prime Elevation (X4)
Headphone rig: PC-> Schiit Wyrd ->Schiit Modi Multibit ->Stax SRM-353X ->THX AAA 789
Headphones: Stax SR-207, Stax SR-L700, M1060, TH-X00 Purpleheart, HD600, HD6XX, etc
Keith Zuehlke is online now  
post #30133 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 03:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
drh3b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 3,473
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1885 Post(s)
Liked: 3423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Zuehlke View Post
I never laid my PC12 Plus's on their side, either. However, I'd think you could use part of SVS's own shipping box for that purpose if you did.

There are 2 different "half-circle" sections of foam in the box when you open it up.The half covering the sub you remove, and the other half stays in the box as you un-box the sub. The part that comes out of the box I'd think would work nicely as a "cradle" were you to lay the sub on its' side.
I'm pretty sure someone mentioned, and may have even shown pictures of doing that within the last 2 years if someone wants to search the last two years of the thread.
drh3b is offline  
post #30134 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 03:50 PM
Senior Member
 
bigzee3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are very welcome, Rob! I am not a gamer and haven't really been able to find out anything about the low-frequency programming used in them. But, I would expect any special effects involving explosions, helicopters, tanks, artillery fire, etc to benefit from more robust low-frequency SPL and TR. Another factor to consider is the Atmos angle. As more channels are added, the demand on the subwoofers grows. That might also lead you to want more subwoofage in the future. I also suspect that war games are becoming more sophisticated in their effort to simulate more realistic experiences. I would expect that, if war games did not previously have a lot of low-bass, more will be added in the future in order to enhance realism.

I am a little concerned about the shared walls. The lowest bass frequencies travel further, so the PC4000 would increase your opportunity to annoy your neighbors. And, you are on a suspended wood floor (if you are in a loft) so you should be getting pretty good low-bass TR. But, the flip side of all that is that, if you are hesitating because you do kind of want to try a PC4000, I'm not sure that you won't regret it if you don't go ahead and upgrade.

Part of the reason that most of the people on the various subwoofer threads advise others to go bigger to start with, is that most of us have been through multiple upgrades ourselves. And, I believe that most people upgrade in order to obtain more low-frequency performance, and not simply for more SPL. (Having dual subwoofers for enhanced frequency response is a slightly separate issue from that of upgrading for more performance.)

If you really feel the pull of a PC4000, I think that I would do it if I were you. (I already know that I would do it if I were myself. ) If necessary, you could always run it in the Standard 20Hz mode, and you would still have a lower frequency response than you do now with your PC2000. That has about a 22Hz port tune. At times, though, you might want to cut loose with the Extended 16Hz mode, and that could be very exciting. I would still plan on eventually adding a second PC4000, but I agree with you that the upgrade path is a little easier if you start with the right model, and then just add a second one when you can.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike

(Note: In most cases, I don't think that it would hurt to do an Audyssey calibration with a sub in the Standard mode, and then at times to run the sub in the Extended mode. I have seen people experiment successfully with that, measuring the FR with REW to determine the effect. What that generally does is to allow more room gain, for a larger low-bass house curve. Since your loft volume is pretty large, I think that might work well when you really want to cut loose.)
Hi Mike,

I was actually going to give my PB16 a run in extended mode and was wondering if I should do a re calibration. Also I guessing it wont effect the cascading mode.
mthomas47 likes this.
bigzee3 is offline  
post #30135 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 04:53 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
confinoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Shaker Heights, OH
Posts: 1,942
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1206 Post(s)
Liked: 1012
Quote:
Originally Posted by drh3b View Post
I'm pretty sure someone mentioned, and may have even shown pictures of doing that within the last 2 years if someone wants to search the last two years of the thread.
Definitely. I can picture several of those setups posted. May be hard to search for but they are there somewhere.

LG OLED65C7P (Chad B Calibrated) | Denon X4300H | Tivo Roamio OTA | Nvidia Shield | ATV 4K | Oppo UDP-203 | Plex server
5.2.4 | Front Klipsch RP-160M x2 | Center Klipsch RP-450C | Surrounds Klipsch RP-150M x2 | Atmos Klipsch RP-140SA x 4 | Subs SVS PC-4000 x 2
confinoj is online now  
post #30136 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 05:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,286
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2098 Post(s)
Liked: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigzee3 View Post
Hi Mike,

I was actually going to give my PB16 a run in extended mode and was wondering if I should do a re calibration. Also I guessing it wont effect the cascading mode.
I personally would, If your previous calibration was done, without the extended mode.
The location of the woofer may differ slightly, and this could affect a little the results of the calibration.
I would also redo that calibration, without the cascading settings.
And once the calibration is done, re-engage those cascading settings. Since it only take minutes to either remove and engage those settings, on the sub/s and the AVR.


Ray

Last edited by darthray; 01-07-2019 at 05:53 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #30137 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 06:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,286
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2098 Post(s)
Liked: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpnas View Post
Planning out my home theater and need some advice from you geniuses.....my room is quite large at 5,000+ cubic feet (approx. 25 x 25 x 9). I'm stuck with in ceiling speakers as that is what the previous owner had wired up and my wife is sick of seeing speakers all around. I am in the process of replacing the 5 in-ceiling (3 up front and 2 in rear) with Golden Ear Invisa 7000s to get the best possible sound out of my in ceiling

I am leaning towards a PB3000 but like the smaller footprint of the SB3000. I am by no means a bass head and not looking to rattle and/or shake the room, just want some clean smooth low end to movies / TV. Primary use will be movies / TV and not really any music. Also if it matters, we are going to have custom built ins down the road and will most likely put my sub inside a cabinet (I know, I know...)

Given all that do you think a PB3000 or SB3000 will do the trick?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
With movies being the primary use case in a 5Kcf space, there is no doubt or debate, you will not be satisfied with the performance of anything less than the PB3000. That’s the short answer. I’ll defer to other contributors to provide the technical details.
+1

I'm sure Mike will contributed, a much better explanation than mine. I will add my short and dirty version

While speakers only care about there physical location to the MLP position.
Sub/s will try to fill all that area, and this is a space to fill. Not only that, if the room is open to other areas.
For this kind of space, the most capable sub one can afford. Is the one to get, and in most case for that kind of space requirement.
Many will get a second one later.

While a seal sub have, slower slope below tuning. And a port one have steeper drop, below the tuning point.
For movies, a port one have more authority above the tuning point.
And second the choice of the PB3000, for this situation.


Ray
gene4ht and mthomas47 like this.

Last edited by darthray; 01-07-2019 at 06:24 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #30138 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 06:18 PM
Senior Member
 
bigzee3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
I personally would, If your previous calibration was done, without the extended mode.
The location of the woofer may differ slightly, and this could affect a little the results of the calibration.
I would also redo that calibration, without the cascading settings.
And once the calibration is done, re-engage those cascading settings. Since it only take minutes to either remove and engage those settings, on the sub/s and the AVR.


Ray
Thanks Ray,

Just got to find the time now. The one thing the wife hates more than me closing the blinds and getting ready to destroy the living room is having to be quite for the calibration period.
darthray likes this.
bigzee3 is offline  
post #30139 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 06:34 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,286
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2098 Post(s)
Liked: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigzee3 View Post
Thanks Ray,

Just got to find the time now. The one thing the wife hates more than me closing the blinds and getting ready to destroy the living room is having to be quite for the calibration period.
LOL

I hear you, loud and clear on this one
I always waited for my wife to be at work, or sending her away to do some shopping.
And the worst, many time when I had the time to do that calibration. The gym next door, was getting very active with power lift and dropping those 300lb or so bar weight.
And the calibration system on my Audyssey, would say error. Then needed to restart all over
I am glad that place went out of business, the new tire and rim shop is a lot more quit and respect all the houses next to them


Ray
gene4ht and mthomas47 like this.

Last edited by darthray; 01-07-2019 at 06:39 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #30140 of 31371 Old 01-07-2019, 06:53 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,140
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5381 Post(s)
Liked: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigzee3 View Post
Thanks Ray,

Just got to find the time now. The one thing the wife hates more than me closing the blinds and getting ready to destroy the living room is having to be quite for the calibration period.
Darth and I agree on most things, but I'm going to disagree with him on the need to rerun Audyssey. Theoretically, it would be a good idea to rerun Audyssey whenever changing a port tune, but in practical terms, I am skeptical that it will matter in this case. There would be a small variance at a few frequencies between the 20Hz tune and the 16Hz tune, but I think that they would be too small to affect anything.

Then, there would be a considerable variance below 20Hz, but Audyssey would already have stopped EQing, once the PB16 was down in SPL by 3db. That would have happened a little under 20Hz with the Standard port tune. So, the net effect in going from the 20Hz to the 16Hz tuning mode should simply be that you get more <20Hz SPL from the sub, with Audyssey not interfering one way or the other.

FWIW, this is very much like starting with the room size control on a PSA or JTR sub at the mid-point, and then increasing the control to the maximum after running Audyssey. It keeps Audyssey from EQing out as much of the ULF SPL, in an effort to create a flat frequency response. People who own those subs do this all the time, and measure the results afterwards. This works to preserve more room gain that Audyssey might otherwise try to EQ out.

I probably wouldn't go from an Audyssey calibration based on the 16Hz mode to playing the 20Hz mode, without recalibrating, because you couldn't be sure that Audyssey wouldn't be boosting something below the tuning point of 20Hz. But, if you start with the lesser 20Hz tuning mode, you should be able to use the 16Hz mode without concern, and you may get more net low-bass SPL in the process.

It's a little complicated, but I hope you followed all that. If you want to rerun Audyssey again, you certainly can, but you don't need to do that on account of your implementation of cascading crossovers. Nothing about the cascading crossovers has anything at all to do with your Audyssey calibration, or your tuning point. Unless you physically move your subwoofer(s), I would just give the 16Hz tune a try and see what you think.

Regards,
Mike
darthray and bigzee3 like this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 01-07-2019 at 07:02 PM.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #30141 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 03:07 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: GA
Posts: 123
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I know this has been asked before-and some people have said they have “heard” of people doing this-but has anyone themselves or is anyone currently using a CYLINDER SUB ON ITS SIDE?

I am considering putting both hidden on side behind the back and corners of sectional between it and the wall for perfect WAF or at the very least putting one on side and one standing at front

Any actual forum members doing this now and if so, any feedback to report?

One of the concerns is changing sound quality because of the change of orientation.
Another is if it might damage the side since it will not be on the “feet” that comes with it


Any help is greatly appreciated to see if this would be a good option or not
I put my PC13 on it's side behind the couch and it was great, I actually think it sounded the best there out of the couple other places it's been in the room and it could be felt very well but my wife didn't like how much it moved the couch away from the wall more than she didn't like seeing the sub when it was standing up so its back standing up.
darthray likes this.
91RS is offline  
post #30142 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 10:13 AM
Senior Member
 
NCCaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 426
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That might also lead you to want more subwoofage in the future.
Subwoofage Indeed!
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

Mark
Panasonic VIERA TC-P60ST60 Plasma, NAD T775 receiver, OPPO BDP-103, AT&T uVerse
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable w/Ortofon 2M Red cartridge, NAD PP-2 phono preamp
Era D5 front left/right, Era D5 LCR center, Triad in-ceiling Mini 8/LCR surrounds, dual SVS SB12-NSD subs
NCCaniac is offline  
post #30143 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 11:31 AM
Member
 
Kevin Desai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Hello all, I have two PB-12 NSDs in my setup along with 5 KEF q100s. When playing a movie when I walk about I find the bass at some places to be more than at my main seating position, which sucks despite having two subwoofers.
What can I do to improve bass at my main position? I have tried some placement options and the current one was better than the previous. I have limited room being in a small apartment.

I am okay with buying a miniDSP or a UMik for measurements

( based on earlier comments I have adjusted the position of my LCR speaker )

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Kevin Desai is offline  
post #30144 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 12:05 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
velocci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,199
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 42
hi all, can you plug the port on the PB-2000? if so, what is the difference?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
Www.jvpix.com
velocci is offline  
post #30145 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 12:11 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,140
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5381 Post(s)
Liked: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Desai View Post
Hello all, I have two PB-12 NSDs in my setup along with 5 KEF q100s. When playing a movie when I walk about I find the bass at some places to be more than at my main seating position, which sucks despite having two subwoofers.
What can I do to improve bass at my main position? I have tried some placement options and the current one was better than the previous. I have limited room being in a small apartment.

I am okay with buying a miniDSP or a UMik for measurements

( based on earlier comments I have adjusted the position of my LCR speaker )

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Hi Kevin,

I think that you will need to show more pictures, or a scaled diagram of your room, in order to get any meaningful suggestions. Seeing your two subwoofers sitting close together on the front wall doesn't really illustrate much, except that they are probably not engaging many room modes, due to their physical proximity.

We also need to know some room dimensions, and whether your listening position is near the mid-point of the room length. If it is, you are probably getting some bass cancellation, just from the location of the listening position. Measuring your room with REW would definitely be helpful, in this instance, but you still have to be able to move the subs around a bit in order to benefit from the measurements.

One thing that can be observed from your photo is that you should pull your center channel forward, so that it just overhangs the edge of the cabinet. That should improve your mid-range clarity slightly, and may also contribute to slightly better dialogue intelligibility. Adjustments like that one sometimes only make subtle differences, but every little bit helps. I would also consider rotating your front speakers to point a little more toward your listening position. If you have a form of automated room correction, you should run it again after you move any speakers or subwoofers.

Regards,
Mike
darthray likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #30146 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 12:16 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,140
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5381 Post(s)
Liked: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by velocci View Post
hi all, can you plug the port on the PB-2000? if so, what is the difference?
No! The PB2000 is designed to be operated just as it is, with the port open. The tuning point that results from the open port corresponds to the way that the DSP works. Port plugs are only used where the subwoofers are specifically designed to have variable tuning points, with correspondingly variable DSP (digital signal processing) that is changed when the port plugs are changed.

Regards,
Mike
darthray likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #30147 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 12:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
velocci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,199
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked: 42
thanks, i'm glad I asked. what would happen if I were to plug it?

Family Room: Onkyo TX-NR 646 AVR, Polk Audio RtiA3 fronts, Polk Audio CSiA4 center, BIC America F12 sub, Polk Audio RC-65i rears
Basement: Denon AVR-X3400 AVR, Klipsch RP280f fronts, RP450c center, SVS PB-2000 sub, Polk Audio RC-85i rears & surrounds
Www.jvpix.com
velocci is offline  
post #30148 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 01:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
Delija's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: NS
Posts: 598
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked: 269
Nothing special

It just won't sound ok.

Anthem MRX 720 | Parasound Halo A21
Dynaudio Contour 60 | Dynaudio Excite X28 | Dynaudio Emit M20 | 2x SVS SB16-Ultra
LG OLED65C7V
Delija is online now  
post #30149 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 02:29 PM
Senior Member
 
bigzee3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sydney
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 171 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Darth and I agree on most things, but I'm going to disagree with him on the need to rerun Audyssey. Theoretically, it would be a good idea to rerun Audyssey whenever changing a port tune, but in practical terms, I am skeptical that it will matter in this case. There would be a small variance at a few frequencies between the 20Hz tune and the 16Hz tune, but I think that they would be too small to affect anything.

Then, there would be a considerable variance below 20Hz, but Audyssey would already have stopped EQing, once the PB16 was down in SPL by 3db. That would have happened a little under 20Hz with the Standard port tune. So, the net effect in going from the 20Hz to the 16Hz tuning mode should simply be that you get more <20Hz SPL from the sub, with Audyssey not interfering one way or the other.

FWIW, this is very much like starting with the room size control on a PSA or JTR sub at the mid-point, and then increasing the control to the maximum after running Audyssey. It keeps Audyssey from EQing out as much of the ULF SPL, in an effort to create a flat frequency response. People who own those subs do this all the time, and measure the results afterwards. This works to preserve more room gain that Audyssey might otherwise try to EQ out.

I probably wouldn't go from an Audyssey calibration based on the 16Hz mode to playing the 20Hz mode, without recalibrating, because you couldn't be sure that Audyssey wouldn't be boosting something below the tuning point of 20Hz. But, if you start with the lesser 20Hz tuning mode, you should be able to use the 16Hz mode without concern, and you may get more net low-bass SPL in the process.

It's a little complicated, but I hope you followed all that. If you want to rerun Audyssey again, you certainly can, but you don't need to do that on account of your implementation of cascading crossovers. Nothing about the cascading crossovers has anything at all to do with your Audyssey calibration, or your tuning point. Unless you physically move your subwoofer(s), I would just give the 16Hz tune a try and see what you think.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike,

Great info as always. You and Ray have been great and its much appreciated. I was think of doing some measurements or using the PEQs via the app to make sure things running even better. I know its best to measure things but how do I go about doing this. Do I use the app PEQs to measure in that case how should I do it or do I use something like a umik microphone i've heard about.
darthray and mthomas47 like this.
bigzee3 is offline  
post #30150 of 31371 Old 01-08-2019, 04:35 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,140
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5381 Post(s)
Liked: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigzee3 View Post
Thanks Mike,

Great info as always. You and Ray have been great and its much appreciated. I was think of doing some measurements or using the PEQs via the app to make sure things running even better. I know its best to measure things but how do I go about doing this. Do I use the app PEQs to measure in that case how should I do it or do I use something like a umik microphone i've heard about.
You are very welcome! You can experiment with the built-in PEQ at any time. Most changes of that nature will be sufficiently audible for you to decide whether you like the tweak or not. If you want to dive into the deep end of the pool, you can measure your frequency response to see the effect that different subwoofer placements and PEQ changes make to the FR. That is a very helpful way to perfect your sound quality, although your own preferences still have to be the final judge in any changes you make.

To do that, you would need to buy a calibrated UMIK-1 and download REW. It's a free download, and you can get lots of helpful setup, implementation, and trouble-shooting advice on the REW thread.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...et-graphs.html

Regards,
Mike
darthray and bigzee3 like this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
mthomas47 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , svs pb12 plus , Svs Pb13 Ultra , svs pc-4000 , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off