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post #30301 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 03:48 AM
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Service for calibrating dual SVS subs with REW??

Hey guys, this is cross posted to reach more specific people in the SVS thread since there seems to be a lot of Canadians here

Not sure if this is the place to ask but if someone like me is interested in doing this stuff but hasn’t got the time or patience (yet) to read the whole thread and learn is there another way?

People pay for skilled people to do tv calibrations all the time-does it work the same way with multiple subs and REW?
A little more info: I am getting 2 SVS PC4000 and want to get them placed optimally and working optimally for multiple seats and then NEVER MOVE THEM. I also have purchased a MiniDSP 2x4 and a UMIK-1.

I have a NAD with DIRAC which will be used on a 5.1.4
I can probably figure out DIRAC on my own but wondering if there are services for calibration of multiple subs and REW...where do I look if so and what do I do?

i live 30-40 min east of Toronto if that helps

Sony 75Z9D, Samsung 65JS9500
Monitor Audio Gold 200(2), Gold 350, Gold 50(2), Gold CT280-IDC(4). SVS PC4000(2).
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post #30302 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Hey guys, this is cross posted to reach more specific people in the SVS thread since there seems to be a lot of Canadians here

Not sure if this is the place to ask but if someone like me is interested in doing this stuff but hasn’t got the time or patience (yet) to read the whole thread and learn is there another way?

People pay for skilled people to do tv calibrations all the time-does it work the same way with multiple subs and REW?
A little more info: I am getting 2 SVS PC4000 and want to get them placed optimally and working optimally for multiple seats and then NEVER MOVE THEM. I also have purchased a MiniDSP 2x4 and a UMIK-1.

I have a NAD with DIRAC which will be used on a 5.1.4
I can probably figure out DIRAC on my own but wondering if there are services for calibration of multiple subs and REW...where do I look if so and what do I do?

i live 30-40 min east of Toronto if that helps
It does exist, just don't know about your area. Chad B who is well known for his video calibrations also does audio calibration. You can contact him and see if he ever travels to Canada. He is based in Ohio.

http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/home-1.html
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post #30303 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Hey guys, this is cross posted to reach more specific people in the SVS thread since there seems to be a lot of Canadians here

Not sure if this is the place to ask but if someone like me is interested in doing this stuff but hasn’t got the time or patience (yet) to read the whole thread and learn is there another way?

People pay for skilled people to do tv calibrations all the time-does it work the same way with multiple subs and REW?
A little more info: I am getting 2 SVS PC4000 and want to get them placed optimally and working optimally for multiple seats and then NEVER MOVE THEM. I also have purchased a MiniDSP 2x4 and a UMIK-1.

I have a NAD with DIRAC which will be used on a 5.1.4
I can probably figure out DIRAC on my own but wondering if there are services for calibration of multiple subs and REW...where do I look if so and what do I do?

i live 30-40 min east of Toronto if that helps
It does exist, just don't know about your area. Chad B who is well known for his video calibrations also does audio calibration. You can contact him and see if he ever travels to Canada. He is based in Ohio.

http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/home-1.html
Definitely familiar with Chad B-unfortunately he doesn’t do my area. Hopefully someone will know of a audio calibrator in Toronto area or if a fellow avs member knows how to do REW easily and would be willing to do one in my setup...

I’m guessing once the sub stuff is calibrated properly it can remain that way for many years as long as the room layout doesn’t change even if I do different DIRAC calibrations afterwards that shouldn’t change the sub needing another location or reading if done well..,

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post #30304 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 08:45 AM
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Hey Ed!

First of all, I want to thank you guys for making such kickass subs, I've recently got two SB-1000s for my HT and the sound is amazing. However, there's always room for improvement, right?

I chose SB because of space limitations in my room, PB just couldn't fit anywhere without sticking out too much. And since SB is more precise and not as "brutal" as PB, I miss the chest pounding bass in some movie scenes. That made me thinking about adding a third sub to the system. Now, my options are a third SB-1000 or SB-2000. I've created a schematic of my room (attached to this post), outlining some key furniture, length and width, and current subs placement, and also marked three available options for placing a third sub. Btw, my ceiling is 8.2ft, forgot to add it to the picture.

My questions are, first, would you go with a 1000 or 2000? Second, where would you suggest placing the third sub? If you'd suggest going with a 2000, where would be the best spot for it in the room, maybe replace a front 1000 with it?
I like location #2 and I recommend another SB-1000 simply because it will have an identical FR and phase response as the other two subs, which eliminates that as a variable during the integration process.
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post #30305 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Hey guys, this is cross posted to reach more specific people in the SVS thread since there seems to be a lot of Canadians here

Not sure if this is the place to ask but if someone like me is interested in doing this stuff but hasn’t got the time or patience (yet) to read the whole thread and learn is there another way?

People pay for skilled people to do tv calibrations all the time-does it work the same way with multiple subs and REW?
A little more info: I am getting 2 SVS PC4000 and want to get them placed optimally and working optimally for multiple seats and then NEVER MOVE THEM. I also have purchased a MiniDSP 2x4 and a UMIK-1.

I have a NAD with DIRAC which will be used on a 5.1.4
I can probably figure out DIRAC on my own but wondering if there are services for calibration of multiple subs and REW...where do I look if so and what do I do?

i live 30-40 min east of Toronto if that helps
Reach out to me at [email protected] and I'll assist you with placement and integration. We'll let REW data drive placement and phasing of both subs and then DIRAC will do the rest.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
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post #30306 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
People pay for skilled people to do tv calibrations all the time-does it work the same way with multiple subs and REW?

i live 30-40 min east of Toronto if that helps
Have you checked on Digital Home Canada? I think there were a couple of people in there that do (or did do) setups. I don't read there as often so things may have changed.

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post #30307 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 11:30 AM
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Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but for Audyssey I believe the release of the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app ($20 iOS/Android) is beginning to replace the Audyssey Pro kit. I'm not sure that Audyssey Pro is even compatible with the newer receivers...

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post #30308 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Hey guys, this is cross posted to reach more specific people in the SVS thread since there seems to be a lot of Canadians here

Not sure if this is the place to ask but if someone like me is interested in doing this stuff but hasn’t got the time or patience (yet) to read the whole thread and learn is there another way?

People pay for skilled people to do tv calibrations all the time-does it work the same way with multiple subs and REW?
A little more info: I am getting 2 SVS PC4000 and want to get them placed optimally and working optimally for multiple seats and then NEVER MOVE THEM. I also have purchased a MiniDSP 2x4 and a UMIK-1.

I have a NAD with DIRAC which will be used on a 5.1.4
I can probably figure out DIRAC on my own but wondering if there are services for calibration of multiple subs and REW...where do I look if so and what do I do?

i live 30-40 min east of Toronto if that helps
Reach out to me at [email protected] and I'll assist you with placement and integration. We'll let REW data drive placement and phasing of both subs and then DIRAC will do the rest.
Thanks Ed-I will definitely take you up on this and appreciate the offer. But I’m still stuck without paying someone to set up or figure out REW process...do you know of anyone that may be able to do that sort of thing? It seems like a long endeavour to figure it out and very complicated. I wish I could just pay someone or put the subs in diagonal corners of the room and call it a day but I wouldn’t even know if I was not maximizing the dual subs or worse cancelling it out somewhere. Want to make for even room response for multiple positions but seems like a lot to start the REW journey...

Sony 75Z9D, Samsung 65JS9500
Monitor Audio Gold 200(2), Gold 350, Gold 50(2), Gold CT280-IDC(4). SVS PC4000(2).
NAD 758, Anthem MCA-5
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post #30309 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks Ed-I will definitely take you up on this and appreciate the offer. But I’m still stuck without paying someone to set up or figure out REW process...do you know of anyone that may be able to do that sort of thing? It seems like a long endeavour to figure it out and very complicated. I wish I could just pay someone or put the subs in diagonal corners of the room and call it a day but I wouldn’t even know if I was not maximizing the dual subs or worse cancelling it out somewhere. Want to make for even room response for multiple positions but seems like a lot to start the REW journey...
REW looks harder than it is. Just read the guide and once you get it set up it's relatively quick and easy to run FR sweeps.
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post #30310 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wantmorehd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
People pay for skilled people to do tv calibrations all the time-does it work the same way with multiple subs and REW?

i live 30-40 min east of Toronto if that helps
Have you checked on Digital Home Canada? I think there were a couple of people in there that do (or did do) setups. I don't read there as often so things may have changed.

Sent from my T06 using Tapatalk
Just checked digital home and there was nothing on there for services related to audio calibration or duel sub or REW services.

Thanks for the suggestion though

Sony 75Z9D, Samsung 65JS9500
Monitor Audio Gold 200(2), Gold 350, Gold 50(2), Gold CT280-IDC(4). SVS PC4000(2).
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post #30311 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks Ed-I will definitely take you up on this and appreciate the offer. But I’m still stuck without paying someone to set up or figure out REW process...do you know of anyone that may be able to do that sort of thing? It seems like a long endeavour to figure it out and very complicated. I wish I could just pay someone or put the subs in diagonal corners of the room and call it a day but I wouldn’t even know if I was not maximizing the dual subs or worse cancelling it out somewhere. Want to make for even room response for multiple positions but seems like a lot to start the REW journey...
REW looks harder than it is. Just read the guide and once you get it set up it's relatively quick and easy to run FR sweeps.
And this is what I need to tell where the best placement would be for Duel subs right? For even response in multiple seating positions?

Sony 75Z9D, Samsung 65JS9500
Monitor Audio Gold 200(2), Gold 350, Gold 50(2), Gold CT280-IDC(4). SVS PC4000(2).
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post #30312 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Definitely familiar with Chad B-unfortunately he doesn’t do my area. Hopefully someone will know of a audio calibrator in Toronto area or if a fellow avs member knows how to do REW easily and would be willing to do one in my setup...

I’m guessing once the sub stuff is calibrated properly it can remain that way for many years as long as the room layout doesn’t change even if I do different DIRAC calibrations afterwards that shouldn’t change the sub needing another location or reading if done well..,
Toronto is a very big city, I am sure that some Audio shop in this area have someone that know their stuff
Just a matter of looking around, and making a few phone call.
And who know, there might be a member of AVS that know about REW also living near you. That might run into this thread, and send you a PM.


Ray
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post #30313 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 06:26 PM
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Heck my Sony AVR sets my tiny 3" Take sats to "large" during cal! They only go down to maybe 100 Hz.

Is there an AVR that DOESN'T set speakers to large during cal?
Yes. Anthem.

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post #30314 of 31357 Old 01-23-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
I like location #2 and that as a variable during the integration I recommend another SB-1000 simply because it will have an identical FR and phase response as the other two subs, which eliminates process.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Reach out to me at [email protected] and I'll assist you with placement and integration. We'll let REW data drive placement and phasing of both subs and then DIRAC will do the rest.
The way you always help your customer, always did and keep impressing me.
As you did with me, and many others.
Your personal Customer Service, is always Outstanding!!!


Ray

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post #30315 of 31357 Old 01-24-2019, 05:39 AM
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Is UNBALANCED MiniDSP enough?

Would any member that uses a MiniDSP with their SVS subs confirm that the unbalanced version is enough voltage 0.9V for the subs input sensitivity

It would be for dual PC4000s and want to use REW etc

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have already ordered the unbalanced one and would need to cancel and reorder the balanced one ASAP if that’s needs

Sony 75Z9D, Samsung 65JS9500
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post #30316 of 31357 Old 01-24-2019, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks Ed-I will definitely take you up on this and appreciate the offer. But I’m still stuck without paying someone to set up or figure out REW process...do you know of anyone that may be able to do that sort of thing? It seems like a long endeavour to figure it out and very complicated. I wish I could just pay someone or put the subs in diagonal corners of the room and call it a day but I wouldn’t even know if I was not maximizing the dual subs or worse cancelling it out somewhere. Want to make for even room response for multiple positions but seems like a lot to start the REW journey...
There is no shortage of guidance on REW for beginners - there are links on the REW website. As others have said, it looks harder than it really is - especially if you are using a UMIK-1 mic. There are many advanced functions in REW you won't be using and don't need to learn. You'll just be taking FR sweeps of the subwoofers in various room locations.

Typically opposite diagonal corners works well and helps to fill-in front/rear standing wave nulls at the MLP. But that remains to be seen, and we'll let the REW data show us where the best sub locations are in the room. Once we find them, then we can work on phasing and integrating both subs. Then we'll run DIRAC over that and the final FR should look very decent.
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post #30317 of 31357 Old 01-24-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Would any member that uses a MiniDSP with their SVS subs confirm that the unbalanced version is enough voltage 0.9V for the subs input sensitivity

It would be for dual PC4000s and want to use REW etc

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I have already ordered the unbalanced one and would need to cancel and reorder the balanced one ASAP if that’s needs
I would highly recommend the MiniDSP 2x4HD over the older model. It supplies higher voltage and has better sound quality.
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post #30318 of 31357 Old 01-24-2019, 11:56 AM
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Just checked digital home and there was nothing on there for services related to audio calibration or duel sub or REW services.

Thanks for the suggestion though
There was/is a guy named David (forgot his last name) that worked in Markham/Unionville at a higher end shop. The store usually had a room or two at Taves. If I remember right he was very good with these things and even designed some rooms.

I'll try to find his name later tonight once I'm home.

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post #30319 of 31357 Old 01-24-2019, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Just checked digital home and there was nothing on there for services related to audio calibration or duel sub or REW services.

Thanks for the suggestion though
There was/is a guy named David (forgot his last name) that worked in Markham/Unionville at a higher end shop. The store usually had a room or two at Taves. If I remember right he was very good with these things and even designed some rooms.

I'll try to find his name later tonight once I'm home.

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That would be awesome if you could hunt it down-much appreciated!

I live in Brooklin so that’s not far at all 🙂

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post #30320 of 31357 Old 01-25-2019, 07:31 AM
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That would be awesome if you could hunt it down-much appreciated!

I live in Brooklin so that’s not far at all 🙂
My cousin lives in Brooklin, next time I'm there I'll pop in for a coffee and check out your system.

Found the place and name.

Update TV & Stereo. Go to the SERVICES - CALIBRATION page and you will find David Susilo. Should be worth checking out and will be curious what happens. Good luck.

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post #30321 of 31357 Old 01-25-2019, 11:03 AM
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That would be awesome if you could hunt it down-much appreciated!

I live in Brooklin so that’s not far at all 🙂
My cousin lives in Brooklin, next time I'm there I'll pop in for a coffee and check out your system. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]

Found the place and name.

Update TV & Stereo. Go to the SERVICES - CALIBRATION page and you will find David Susilo. Should be worth checking out and will be curious what happens. Good luck.

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Thanks so much-just emailed him 🙂

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post #30322 of 31357 Old 01-25-2019, 08:05 PM
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I ended up re running the audyssey XT32 calibration on my Onkyo nR818 again tonight, did the full 8 positions in my living room, this time around audyssey set the volume for my SVS SB3000 to -6.5db, i tested some music material after the calibration and bass was a bit too much to my liking so i manually adjusted the volume level for the subwoofer channel on the AVR from -6.5db to -10db, I spoke to SVS customer service today and thats what they recommended me to do. they said its most likely room gain that is causing the bass to feel a bit too much so adjusting the volume on the AVR is the way to go, the actual volume gain on the subwoofer itself is -10db and they recommend leaving that as is. Dynamic EQ is on for all my sources, Reference level offset is set to 0 / MOVIE for all my sources except for the HDTV Source which is set to 10db / Movie

What Volume Gain level are you SB3000 owners using? also -10db like me?

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post #30323 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
I like location #2 and I recommend another SB-1000 simply because it will have an identical FR and phase response as the other two subs, which eliminates that as a variable during the integration process.
Is the SB-2000 going to be much harder to implement into this system than a third SB-1000? It's just that prices at my local stores are steep (I'm basically paying double the US price cause of the transport fees, customs fees and stores markup), and I want more sub power I can feel, so I'm a little cautious about buying a third SB-1000 for the US price of SB-2000 and being disappointed with the result (possibly). I'd go for the SB-3000, but it's not available here yet.

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post #30324 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Demetri Zuev View Post
Hey Ed!

First of all, I want to thank you guys for making such kickass subs, I've recently got two SB-1000s for my HT and the sound is amazing. However, there's always room for improvement, right?

I chose SB because of space limitations in my room, PB just couldn't fit anywhere without sticking out too much. And since SB is more precise and not as "brutal" as PB, I miss the chest pounding bass in some movie scenes. That made me thinking about adding a third sub to the system. Now, my options are a third SB-1000 or SB-2000. I've created a schematic of my room (attached to this post), outlining some key furniture, length and width, and current subs placement, and also marked three available options for placing a third sub. Btw, my ceiling is 8.2ft, forgot to add it to the picture.

My questions are, first, would you go with a 1000 or 2000? Second, where would you suggest placing the third sub? If you'd suggest going with a 2000, where would be the best spot for it in the room, maybe replace a front 1000 with it?
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Originally Posted by Demetri Zuev View Post
Is the SB-2000 going to be much harder to implement into this system than a third SB-1000? It's just that prices at my local stores are steep (I'm basically paying double the US price cause of the transport fees, customs fees and stores markup), and I want more sub power I can feel, so I'm a little cautious about buying a third SB-1000 for the US price of SB-2000 and being disappointed with the result (possibly). I'd go for the SB-3000, but it's not available here yet.
Hi,

I don't want to preempt Ed's expert answer, but I do have a couple of thoughts of my own. First, you are clearly interested in having MOAR bass, so that needs to be a factor in your future sub buying decisions. I assume that you want to be able to turn-up the volume even higher than your current subs can comfortably produce. Remember that adding subwoofers will only be helpful in giving you more bass if you continue to turn-up the volume of your subwoofers more, post-calibration.

Assuming that you do want more total bass volume (and typically more low-bass SPL) than your current subs can produce, then I do think that you could consider adding an SB2000. The shape of the frequency response of the SB1000 and the SB2000 will be similar, but the SB2000 will be capable of playing the same frequencies a little bit louder than the SB1000. I think you might notice that more in the lower frequencies.

The problem is that you don't really want one subwoofer playing louder than the others, because you don't want it calling more attention to itself. You want the subwoofers to blend so that the bass seems to come from everywhere. When you use Audyssey's automated calibration process in your Denon, it will intentionally level-match your subwoofers for that reason.

If you are really leaning toward the SB2000, then I would recommend that you put it further away than your other subwoofers. The additional distance will allow you to use more of its innate power while not dominating the other subs. I would recommend placing the new sub in position 3, but if I wanted to put an SB2000 there, then I would move the SB1000 that you have on the back wall to position 1, right next to the sofa.

In that arrangement, the two SB1000's would face each other. Having one of your subs immediately flanking the sofa may also help a little with low-bass TR (tactile response). You could also try the SB1000 you are moving to position 2, as Ed suggested. It can be hard to predict where it might sound the best. Long-term, I might try getting rid of the two SB1000's and upgrading to all SB2000's.

If the SB3000 were available to you, I would probably recommend against trying to combine it with your SB1000's. I think it is easier to go up one model than it is two models. The SB3000 would be a lot more powerful than the SB1000's, and the shape of the frequency response would change more, too. I sympathize with you regarding the higher per-unit cost of the SVS subs in your location. But, in my opinion, this is why it is so important for many of us to buy more subwoofage than we think we will need. That is because, once we actually have good subwoofers and start to experience good quality bass, we often want even more of it. I would say that is usually the case.

You can still get to wherever you want to go with the bass in your room. It will just take a little more effort. But, given what you have said, I would probably start that process now, by making my next purchase an SB2000, and perhaps working toward a plan to have all SB2000's eventually, if necessary. I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 01-26-2019 at 07:53 AM.
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post #30325 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I don't want to preempt Ed's expert answer, but I do have a couple of thoughts of my own. First, you are clearly interested in having MOAR bass, so that needs to be a factor in your future sub buying decisions. I assume that you want to be able to turn-up the volume even higher than your current subs can comfortably produce. Remember that adding subwoofers will only be helpful in giving you more bass if you continue to turn-up the volume of your subwoofers more, post-calibration.

Assuming that you do want more total bass volume (and typically more low-bass SPL) than your current subs can produce, then I do think that you could consider adding an SB2000. The shape of the frequency response of the SB1000 and the SB2000 will be similar, but the SB2000 will be capable of playing the same frequencies a little bit louder than the SB1000. The problem is that you don't really want one subwoofer playing louder than the others, because you don't want it calling more attention to itself. You want the subwoofers to blend so that the bass seems to come from everywhere. When you use Audyssey's automated calibration process in your Denon, it will intentionally level-match your subwoofers for that reason.

If you are really leaning toward the SB2000, then I would recommend that you put it further away than your other subwoofers. The additional distance will allow you to use more of its innate power while not dominating the other subs. I would recommend placing the new sub in position 3, but if I wanted to put an SB2000 there, then I would move the SB1000 that you have on the back wall to position 1, right next to the sofa.

In that arrangement, the two SB1000's would face each other. Having one of your subs immediately flanking the sofa may also help a little with low-bass TR (tactile response). You could also try the SB1000 you are moving to position 2, as Ed suggested. It can be hard to predict where it might sound the best. Long-term, I might try getting rid of the two SB1000's and upgrading to all SB2000's.

If the SB3000 were available to you, I would probably recommend against trying to combine it with your SB1000's. I think it is easier to go up one model than it is two models. The SB3000 would be a lot more powerful than the SB1000's, and the shape of the frequency response would change more, too. I sympathize with you regarding the higher per-unit cost of the SVS subs in your location. But, in my opinion, this is why it is so important for many of us to buy more subwoofage than we think we will need. That is because, once we actually have good subwoofers and start to experience good quality bass, we often want even more of it. I would say that is usually the case.

You can still get to wherever you want to go with the bass in your room. It will just take a little more effort. But, given what you have said, I would probably start that process now, by making my next purchase an SB2000, and perhaps working toward a plan to have all SB2000's eventually, if necessary. I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
I'm 100% in agreement with Mike's overall comments. And more importantly, his bolded opinion is typically 100% accurate for 99% of enthusiasts!
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post #30326 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 10:15 AM
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Hi,

I don't want to preempt Ed's expert answer, but I do have a couple of thoughts of my own. First, you are clearly interested in having MOAR bass, so that needs to be a factor in your future sub buying decisions. I assume that you want to be able to turn-up the volume even higher than your current subs can comfortably produce. Remember that adding subwoofers will only be helpful in giving you more bass if you continue to turn-up the volume of your subwoofers more, post-calibration.

Assuming that you do want more total bass volume (and typically more low-bass SPL) than your current subs can produce, then I do think that you could consider adding an SB2000. The shape of the frequency response of the SB1000 and the SB2000 will be similar, but the SB2000 will be capable of playing the same frequencies a little bit louder than the SB1000. I think you might notice that more in the lower frequencies.

The problem is that you don't really want one subwoofer playing louder than the others, because you don't want it calling more attention to itself. You want the subwoofers to blend so that the bass seems to come from everywhere. When you use Audyssey's automated calibration process in your Denon, it will intentionally level-match your subwoofers for that reason.

If you are really leaning toward the SB2000, then I would recommend that you put it further away than your other subwoofers. The additional distance will allow you to use more of its innate power while not dominating the other subs. I would recommend placing the new sub in position 3, but if I wanted to put an SB2000 there, then I would move the SB1000 that you have on the back wall to position 1, right next to the sofa.

In that arrangement, the two SB1000's would face each other. Having one of your subs immediately flanking the sofa may also help a little with low-bass TR (tactile response). You could also try the SB1000 you are moving to position 2, as Ed suggested. It can be hard to predict where it might sound the best. Long-term, I might try getting rid of the two SB1000's and upgrading to all SB2000's.

If the SB3000 were available to you, I would probably recommend against trying to combine it with your SB1000's. I think it is easier to go up one model than it is two models. The SB3000 would be a lot more powerful than the SB1000's, and the shape of the frequency response would change more, too. I sympathize with you regarding the higher per-unit cost of the SVS subs in your location. But, in my opinion, this is why it is so important for many of us to buy more subwoofage than we think we will need. That is because, once we actually have good subwoofers and start to experience good quality bass, we often want even more of it. I would say that is usually the case.

You can still get to wherever you want to go with the bass in your room. It will just take a little more effort. But, given what you have said, I would probably start that process now, by making my next purchase an SB2000, and perhaps working toward a plan to have all SB2000's eventually, if necessary. I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
Hey Mike!

Thank you so much for such a detailed response! Well, if the prices were similar to US ones, I'd already owned two SB-2000s, maybe even stretched my budget and get two SB-3000s, but oh well, they are what they are. I was initially considering two PB-1000/2000, but those cabinets are beasts size-wise, and I just don't have space for them. I like the quality of bass I get from SBs very much though, I can only imagine how much better the SB-4000 must be sounding, and the 16Ultra must be divine (it costs $4546 here, converted from a local currency, feel the insanity). My go to "bass test" scene right now is the beginning of Blade Runner 2049, starting with the shot of the opening eye and for a few minutes after that, there are some very low sounds in the soundtrack, and right now I feel like I almost got the bass where I want it to be, but not quite there yet. I've also heard that the beginning of Edge of Tomorrow is very bass intense, waiting for a Blu-Ray of that one to arrive soon.

Considering placement, I was thinking about putting the SB-2000 in the place of my "main" SB-1000 (the one to the right of the TV), and move the replaced SB-1000 to position 2 or position 1, do you think that SB-2000 will drown the two 1000s in this config? Also is it bad if both subs going to be opposite each other if I put it to position 1?
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post #30327 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 11:40 AM
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Hey Mike!

Thank you so much for such a detailed response! Well, if the prices were similar to US ones, I'd already owned two SB-2000s, maybe even stretched my budget and get two SB-3000s, but oh well, they are what they are. I was initially considering two PB-1000/2000, but those cabinets are beasts size-wise, and I just don't have space for them. I like the quality of bass I get from SBs very much though, I can only imagine how much better the SB-4000 must be sounding, and the 16Ultra must be divine (it costs $4546 here, converted from a local currency, feel the insanity). My go to "bass test" scene right now is the beginning of Blade Runner 2049, starting with the shot of the opening eye and for a few minutes after that, there are some very low sounds in the soundtrack, and right now I feel like I almost got the bass where I want it to be, but not quite there yet. I've also heard that the beginning of Edge of Tomorrow is very bass intense, waiting for a Blu-Ray of that one to arrive soon.

Considering placement, I was thinking about putting the SB-2000 in the place of my "main" SB-1000 (the one to the right of the TV), and move the replaced SB-1000 to position 2 or position 1, do you think that SB-2000 will drown the two 1000s in this config? Also is it bad if both subs going to be opposite each other if I put it to position 1?
You are very welcome! I am glad to try to help a little. When we are just starting out with HT, and especially with subwoofers, some of the advice that we hear doesn't always make sense to us. Why wouldn't I want to put my most powerful subwoofer next to the TV (?) is a good example of that. It's because you want your subwoofers to do equal work, and you want them to provide roughly equal SPL.

You can certainly put your SB2000 anywhere you want it, and see what happens. But, if I am going to give you advice, then I am going to have to recommend putting a more powerful subwoofer further away from, and a less powerful subwoofer closer to, the listening position. That's sort of subwoofer 101.

There is something else you could try, though, if you do buy an SB2000. I thought of mentioning this in my first post, but I thought it might just confuse things. If you put one SB1000 on top of the other one, with something in between to protect the finish, the stacked SB1000's would be roughly equal to, or slightly more powerful than, an SB2000. In that case, you could put the stacked SB1000's and the SB2000 over on the same side of the room, either where you have the 1000's now, or with something in either position 1 or position 2. And, to answer your question, no, the subwoofers won't care whether they point at each other or not.

There is something else you need to understand about asking for advice on where to locate your subwoofers. There is no substitute for experimentation. People can look at your diagram and make suggestions on locations you can try. And, some guesses (such as Ed's) may be better informed than others. But, they are still just educated guesses. You are really just going to have to move your subwoofers around in order to find the best locations for them.

It shouldn't have to be a completely random process. You already have two general approaches you can try. First, you can leave your two SB1000's separated, but somewhere on the right side of the room, with the SB2000 further away at position 3. Or second, you can try stacking your two SB1000's and put the stack anywhere over on the right side of the room, with the SB2000 also on the right side of the room, but on a different wall. (And, you might still find some merit in position 3. I really don't know.)

The investments that we need to make in our HT's are more than just financial. We have to invest some time and effort as well. And, when we do that, we start to gain some understanding of what actually works best in our own rooms. If you are willing to invest some effort in experimenting with subwoofer placement, I think that you will get to a good result. Let us know what you discover once you have the SB2000.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #30328 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 11:52 AM
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There is something else you need to understand about asking for advice on where to locate your subwoofers. There is no substitute for experimentation. People can look at your diagram and make suggestions on locations you can try. And, some guesses (such as Ed's) may be better informed than others. But, they are still just educated guesses. You are really just going to have to move your subwoofers around in order to find the best locations for them.
Because each of our situations and rooms have different variables...

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The investments that we need to make in our HT's are more than just financial. We have to invest some time and effort as well. And, when we do that, we start to gain some understanding of what actually works best in our own rooms. If you are willing to invest some effort in experimenting with subwoofer placement, I think that you will get to a good result. Let us know what you discover once you have the SB2000.
+1 Sage advice!
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post #30329 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 12:46 PM
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There is something else you could try, though, if you do buy an SB2000. I thought of mentioning this in my first post, but I thought it might just confuse things. If you put one SB1000 on top of the other one, with something in between to protect the finish, the stacked SB1000's would be roughly equal to, or slightly more powerful than, an SB2000. In that case, you could put the stacked SB1000's and the SB2000 over on the same side of the room, either where you have the 1000's now, or with something in either position 1 or position 2. And, to answer your question, no, the subwoofers won't care whether they point at each other or not.
I was reading a couple of times about stacking, but it never occurred to me that I can try that with this setup that seems like a really good solution in this case!

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If you are willing to invest some effort in experimenting with subwoofer placement, I think that you will get to a good result.
I'm definitely going to invest more effort in that, actually, I was thinking about getting a UMIK and dig a little deeper into REW to put some more science behind the sub placement.
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post #30330 of 31357 Old 01-26-2019, 09:43 PM
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Hi guys. I'm planning to run DIRAC on my RMC when they release it. I have two SVS SB16-ULTRAs. Each Ultra has a 3 band PEQ in it. I already see I have a huge fat peak at 70hz ob both, and smaller nulls in one sub's position .What would you guys do, and why?


Apply the PEQ from the subs to flatten the summed bass before DIRAC.


Just run DIRAC


Use the sub's PEQ after DIRAC to further flatten


Or, something else.


I'll be using REW to help compare.

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