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post #30691 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
In that size room a PB-2000 or PB-3000 will work fine. A PB-4000 will also work fine, but you probably won't be using anywhere near its available dynamic headroom, so from that perspective it would not be my first recommendation unless you are really pushing the overall system playback level very high and/or running the subwoofer channel hot. We try not to 'over-sub' any application unless the customer's listening preferences clearly call for it.


Thank you Ed I appreciate your help, really l like to have Pb4000 but I have to be in the safe side, pb3000 would more than suitable in my room. I will have another one in future.

If thinking of having 3 Pb3000’s, is good idea or two would be enough?


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post #30692 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ice cube View Post
Thank you Ed I appreciate your help, really l like to have Pb4000 but I have to be in the safe side, pb3000 would more than suitable in my room. I will have another one in future.

If thinking of having 3 Pb3000’s, is good idea or two would be enough?


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From a dynamic output standpoint, it would be enough subwoofer for your size room. But the primary benefit of duals is a denser standing wave pattern and smoother bass at more locations in the room with less pronounced standing wave peaks/nulls.

Opposite diagonal corners tends to work best in this respect.
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post #30693 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
You are adjusting the subwoofer level correctly. Make sure you don't skip the subwoofer level adjust step during XT32 set-up. Adjust the gain at the subwoofer until the OSD SPL meter reads 75 dB. Then move on to the main set-up. Audyssey will build the most accurate correction file for the subwoofer channel when you level match it first. After XT32 runs, if you want to adjust the subwoofer level lower or higher, use the AVR because there are several interrelated Audyssey processes at work which will be affected when you change the subwoofer channel level.

You may also want to experiment with DEQ on/off or adjusting the Ref Level Offset for this feature, as this control can have a pronounced effect on the bass quality/quantity.
Thank you for the reply Ed, I did actually skip that initial part when I ran the Auddysey XT32 Calibration where the audyssey calibration wizard asks you to adjust the gain on the subwoofer itself until the On screen display SPL Meter reads 75db, during my last calibration the On screen SPL meter read something like 86db if I remember correctly and I just clicked next to proceed with the calibration, my understanding was that I shouldn’t adjust the gain on the subwoofer during this step and that I should just skip it with the gain on the sub set to-10db because if I was to adjust the gain on the sdubswoofer to meet the 75db SPL level that Auddysey was requesting it might result in Auddysey setting the subwoofer channel level on the AVR to 0 or worse yet in the POSITIVE + range once the calibration was done and from my understand that is not a good thing and should be avoided, Correct?

Do you recommend that I re run the entire audyssey 8 position calibration but this time I should perform the gain adjustment step on the SB3000 in the beginning of the process instead of skipping it to ensure the On screen display reads 75db before I proceed with the main part of the calibration process? I’m pretty sure audyssey will set the subwoofer channel volume on the AVR to either 0 or somewhere in the range of +1 to +5 once the calibration is done.
Do you suggest that at that point once the calibration is done and Auddysey defined the subwoofer channel volume level, I should then go into the AVR’s setting menu and manually decrease the subwoofer channel volume to -6db( I recall you telling me that -6db would be the ideal recommend subwoofer channel volume on the AVR when it comes to the SB3000 and it’s amp)
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post #30694 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
Thank you for the reply Ed, I did actually skip that initial part when I ran the Auddysey XT32 Calibration where the audyssey calibration wizard asks you to adjust the gain on the subwoofer itself until the On screen display SPL Meter reads 75db, the On screen SPL meter read something like 86db if I remember correctly and I just clicked next to proceed with the calibration, my understanding was that I shouldn’t adjust the gain on the subwoofer during this step and that I should just skip it with the gain on the sub set to-10db because if I was to adjust the gain on the sdubswoofer to meet the 75db SPL level that Auddysey was requesting it might result in Auddysey setting the subwoofer channel level on the AVR to 0 or worse yet in the POSITIVE + range once the calibration was done and from my understand that is not a good thing, Correct?

Do you recommend that I re run the entire audyssey 8 position calibration but this time I should perform the gain adjustment step on the SB3000 in the beginning of the process instead of skipping it to ensure the On screen display reads 75db before I proceed with the main part of the calibration process? I’m pretty sure audyssey will set the subwoofer channel volume on the AVR to either 0 or somewhere in the range of +1 to +5 once the calibration is done.
Do you suggest that at that point once the calibration is done and Auddysey defined the subwoofer channel volume level, I go into the AVR’s setting menu and manually decrease the subwoofer channel volume to -6db( I recall you telling me that -6db would be the ideal recommend subwoofer channel volume on the AVR when it comes to the SB3000)
I have yet to see XT32 set a positive subwoofer channel level after you perform the level match step. It will typically be closer to 0 but still negative - and this is totally fine. If you want to hedge your bets, you can set it to 77 dB but make sure it's still green on this step.

The decision on how many mic locations to run and where to run them - is separate and independent from the subwoofer level match step.

The SB-3000 amp can still be driven to full power at a very low gain setting - I think the lower limit is about -23. So I do recommend that you perform the level match step (again hedging to 77 dB/green if you want) and then adjust the subwoofer level using the AVR after XT32 runs.

While historically we have made the recommendation to lower the sub channel level and increase gain at the sub, this was in response to AVRs which had the potential to clip/distort the sub-out signal and also in response to gain structure limitations in the amplifier regarding its ability to be driven to full power at lower gain settings. Neither of those situations apply in your case.

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post #30695 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 07:24 AM
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While you're on a responding spree @Ed Mullen could you tell me what the best phase would be for a PB13U and PB16U that are exactly equidistant from the MLP?

My testing has shown that 120 degrees OOP with each other gives the best results, but I'm sure you have phase plots that could give me a straight answer.

Thanks.

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post #30696 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
I have yet to see XT32 set a positive subwoofer channel level after you perform the level match step. It will typically be closer to 0 but still negative - and this is totally fine. If you want to hedge your bets, you can set it to 77 dB but make sure it's still green on this step.

The decision on how many mic locations to run and where to run them - is separate and independent from the subwoofer level match step.

The SB-3000 amp can still be driven to full power at a very low gain setting - I think the lower limit is about -23. So I do recommend that you perform the level match step (again hedging to 77 dB/green if you want) and then adjust the subwoofer level using the AVR after XT32 runs.

While historically we have made the recommendation to lower the sub channel level and increase gain at the sub, this was in response to AVRs which had the potential to clip/distort the sub-out signal and also in response to gain structure limitations in the amplifier regarding its ability to be driven to full power at lower gain settings. Neither of those situations apply in your case.
Ok I will re run audyssey either tonight or tomorrow depending on whether I can find the time to perform the calibration in the evening. I will be sure to adjust the gain on the SB3000 in the beginning step to meet the On screen 75db SPL Meter reading that audyssey requests at the very beginning step of the calibration, as long audyssey sets the subwoofer channel volume after the calibration to either 0 or -1, -2 or even -3 I’d be good to go but if I see that it set it to anything in the positive range such as +1 then I’ll re run the calibration once again and I’ll adjust the gain on the sub in the beginning of the calibration to meet a 77db subwoofer spl to ensure I stay in the negative range at the end of the calibration.

Now, once I have the system recalibrated, if I find the bass too strong to my liking, should I adjust the subwoofer channel volume on the AVR to something lower then whatever audyssey will eventually set the volume to after the calibration and the proper 75db match up (subwoofer volume at -1db, -2db Or 0 on the AVR) ? Is there an ideal AVR subwoofer channel volume setting/range I should aim for? -6db? I shouldn’t touch the sb3000’s gain whatsoever after the XT32 calibration is complete, Correct?

Last edited by lamonsasa; 02-27-2019 at 07:54 AM.
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post #30697 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
While you're on a responding spree @Ed Mullen could you tell me what the best phase would be for a PB13U and PB16U that are exactly equidistant from the MLP?

My testing has shown that 120 degrees OOP with each other gives the best results, but I'm sure you have phase plots that could give me a straight answer.

Thanks.
The room has an influence on this too - so go with what works best per your measurements.

Most of the phase response differences between these two subs are attributable to the different DSP flashes files and the PEQs, high/low pass filters, shelving filters, and slight differences in physical port tuning also.

They won't ever be perfectly in phase with each other and since these phase response differences are frequency specific, adjusting the phase to compensate/correct for one area can often have a detrimental effect on other areas. So a compromise room-specific setting like you developed is the best way ahead.

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post #30698 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
all ch stereo sounds fine on my onkyo rz-820.


i would listen to 2 channel, but what a waste if you have your 2 rears calibrated and they sit there dead when your listening to music


what am i missing here ?
If you prefer to listen in "Party Mode", who am I to tell you you're wrong?

However, myself and many other "old school" listeners prefer Stereo because it allows for a much more cohesive sound stage. This will more closely mimic an actual live performance, which after all is the ultimate goal of music reproduction in the home. Party Mode basically sends the same signal to all speakers, offering little chance of any cohesive sound stage.
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post #30699 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 09:09 AM
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Party Mode basically sends the same signal to all speakers, offering little chance of any cohesive sound stage.
Well you're right but of course, the left stereo signal is sent to all speakers at the left, while the right stereo signal is sent to all speakers at the right. You don't lose stereo with all channel stereo / party mode. Center gets the mono downmix I'd guess.

Probably not the best way to listen to a concert or anything that is supposed to have a sound stage. But for other content -- e.g. electronic music -- being totally immersed in the sound stage itself can be quite enthralling.

Also, parties.

Speaking of all channel stereo, another note concerning bass and subwoofers. On my Denon X4000, there is very obviously a bass management bug in that mode (which is called "Multich Stereo"). Not sure if it is present on many other AVRs of the Denon family; reportedly it wasn't present on the 2016 line, and it certainly isn't present in my Onkyo 818. It looks like volume is not adjusted in Multich Stereo, so it's quite noticeably louder, with how much louder depending on the number of speakers playing. However, it looks like only the bass from the 2-ch source is redirected to the sub. This means that for a 5-channel system, the subwoofer level needs to be boosted by 20*log10(5/2) = +8 dB to be accurate.
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post #30700 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 09:18 AM
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I generally listen to music as it was mixed, but I do on the rare occasion use all channel stereo, for me, it provides a better experience than any of the Dolby or DTS upmixers. I was actually surprised, I wasn't expecting the experience to be worth much.
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post #30701 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 09:48 AM
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The three most important things in any subwoofer cable are good/strong shielding, gold-plated connections, and a robust construction where the RCA jack meets the cable (cheap cables will almost always eventually fail at this point).



From a signal standpoint, the subwoofer signal is narrow in bandwidth and low in frequency, so it's an easy signal for the cable to carry. Don't buy into snake oil claims that you will get a massive improvement in subwoofer performance or SQ if you spend lots of money on your cable - it's simply not true.


How are your RCA connectors attached to the wire - crimped, soldered or fused?


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post #30702 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Speaking of all channel stereo, another note concerning bass and subwoofers. On my Denon X4000, there is very obviously a bass management bug in that mode (which is called "Multich Stereo"). Not sure if it is present on many other AVRs of the Denon family; reportedly it wasn't present on the 2016 line, and it certainly isn't present in my Onkyo 818. It looks like volume is not adjusted in Multich Stereo, so it's quite noticeably louder, with how much louder depending on the number of speakers playing. However, it looks like only the bass from the 2-ch source is redirected to the sub. This means that for a 5-channel system, the subwoofer level needs to be boosted by 20*log10(5/2) = +8 dB to be accurate.
Interesting you note that. I don't use multi-channel stereo much. I go back and forth between stereo and using the DSU depending on source and mood. However when I have used it on my 2016 x4300h I always noticed that bass seemed anemic relative to stereo and the upmixer. So maybe the same issue.

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post #30703 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 10:34 AM
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Interesting you note that. I don't use multi-channel stereo much. I go back and forth between stereo and using the DSU depending on source and mood. However when I have used it on my 2016 x4300h I always noticed that bass seemed anemic relative to stereo and the upmixer. So maybe the same issue.
Well, luckily in Denon AVRs, the Setup -> Audio -> Subwoofer Level parameter is remembered per listening mode. So if you make an adjustment for Multich Stereo, it will stick only to that mode.

I don't have measurements to back my theory, but I computed the correction factor (as mentioned before 20 x log10 (number of speakers / 2) ) first, ended up with the +8 dB figure for 5 speakers, and applied it with a lot of skepticism because it does appear to be a preposterous amount of correction. Turns out that, at least for me, bass sounds just right in Multich Stereo since I applied this correction. It was also the only listening mode where such a bug seemed apparent.

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post #30704 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 11:45 AM
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what avr do you have, and what is PL 11, and the other modes that you speak of ?
I have an onkyo NR818, for any given source that is connected to the receiver there is a “Listening Mode” on the reciever which you can pick and that’s what I was referring to when I said “Listening Mode”. For a source playing 5.1 content the default mode that the receiver picks is usually Dolby D multichannelpcm but when there’s non 5.1 content being played such as when streaming music from An iPhone to the Apple to via AirPlay, the listening mode can be defined manually by picking all channel stereo, Pro logic etc by the user
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post #30705 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 12:05 PM
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Any tips on using the SVS sub app?
My SB3000 is due for tomorrow delivery... woohoo
I've d'loaded the app on my iphone and just started reading its' tutorial...seems straightforward.
I'll run Audyssey after replacing my sub with the sb3k then use the app...or vice versa?

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post #30706 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nodoubt View Post
all ch stereo sounds fine on my onkyo rz-820.


i would listen to 2 channel, but what a waste if you have your 2 rears calibrated and they sit there dead when your listening to music


what am i missing here ?
Good sound.

I could possibly see using all channel "stereo" if all the speakers are identical. But not many setups are like that. Once you add in a horizontal center, smaller surrounds many of which will be dipole, bipole it just ruins the sound. I hate hearing music come out the center speaker. It sounds strange and totally ruins imaging and makes the sound stage weird.
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post #30707 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 02:38 PM
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How are your RCA connectors attached to the wire - crimped, soldered or fused?
The center conductor, ground conductor and the shield are hand-soldered. The shield is floated at the output side of the cable and tied to ground at the input side.

Go here and click on tech specs for more info.
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post #30708 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 04:11 PM
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The chuffing on the PB16 is quite obnoxious at relatively low levels. Any other owners have this issue?

EDIT: After reading some of the older posts I decided to check my ports. I was able to isolate the noise to a specific port, which had a thin piece of glue strung across the port. Removing that brought whatever I was hearing down significantly. Who knew these things were so sensitive...
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post #30709 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 04:32 PM
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Good sound.

I could possibly see using all channel "stereo" if all the speakers are identical. But not many setups are like that. Once you add in a horizontal center, smaller surrounds many of which will be dipole, bipole it just ruins the sound. I hate hearing music come out the center speaker. It sounds strange and totally ruins imaging and makes the sound stage weird.

all matching jbl speakers
and i always kill the center for sure when doing music
center disrupts the sound for sure
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post #30710 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 04:32 PM
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The chuffing on the PB16 is quite obnoxious at relatively low levels. Any other owners have this issue?
Hi,

There have been a few instances of owners reporting chuffing problems with the PB16, in the two + years since they were introduced. But, they have mostly been isolated examples. I am currently running three PB16's, and have never come close to making them chuff with any content. And, I have run very heavy bass boosts at times, with some pretty robust master volumes. I actually don't like quite as loud any more.

There are two fairly obvious possibilities here. One possibility is that you have a defective amp in the PB16. The other possibility is that something about the PB16's placement is contributing to the port chuffing. I think that the first thing I would try to determine is whether the PB16, operating by itself, still chuffs. And, I might try it in a location where your PB13's don't chuff.

I think that if you do have a defective PB16, that might actually be the best situation for you, since it would be an easy fix to replace the amp. If it is operating properly, and is only chuffing due to its placement in the room and its interaction with the other subs, and you have already tried other room placements with the PB16, I really don't know what else to suggest.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I just saw your edit, so Never Mind!
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post #30711 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 04:40 PM
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Hi,

There have been a few instances of owners reporting chuffing problems with the PB16, in the two + years since they were introduced. But, they have mostly been isolated examples. I am currently running three PB16's, and have never come close to making them chuff with any content. And, I have run very heavy bass boosts at times, with some pretty robust master volumes. I actually don't like quite as loud any more.

There are two fairly obvious possibilities here. One possibility is that you have a defective amp in the PB16. The other possibility is that something about the PB16's placement is contributing to the port chuffing. I think that the first thing I would try to determine is whether the PB16, operating by itself, still chuffs. And, I might try it in a location where your PB13's don't chuff.

I think that if you do have a defective PB16, that might actually be the best situation for you, since it would be an easy fix to replace the amp. If it is operating properly, and is only chuffing due to its placement in the room and its interaction with the other subs, and you have already tried other room placements with the PB16, I really don't know what else to suggest.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I just saw your edit, so Never Mind!
Yea the noise sounded more like if you were to hold a piece of paper in front of a fan..It was that kind of high pitched fluttering. It didn't sound like typical port chuffing. I saw the glue the first day I got the 16 but never thought something so minor would affect the sound quality so drastically. I'm still having a hard time believing that was the reason lol.
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post #30712 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
Yea the noise sounded more like if you were to hold a piece of paper in front of a fan..It was that kind of high pitched fluttering. It didn't sound like typical port chuffing. I saw the glue the first day I got the 16 but never thought something so minor would affect the sound quality so drastically. I'm still having a hard time believing that was the reason lol.
I'm really glad that you spotted the string of glue and were able to remove it. When the PB16 and the PB13 are working hard, which I'm sure that yours are required to do they are moving a lot of air through the ports with low-frequencies. As I understand it, chuffing is essentially the sound of air turbulence around the mouth of the port. SVS, and other subwoofer makers, go to great lengths to design the mouth of the port in such a way as to reduce port turbulence.

So, it actually makes sense that any kind of obstruction in the port, and especially at the mouth of the port, could cause the sound you heard. I remember one instance where someone trimmed the insulation, which was partially covering the inside edge of a port, to eliminate a port chuffing problem. That may have been the same report that made you investigate the ports. In any event, good catch!

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #30713 of 31351 Old 02-27-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
The chuffing on the PB16 is quite obnoxious at relatively low levels. Any other owners have this issue?

EDIT: After reading some of the older posts I decided to check my ports. I was able to isolate the noise to a specific port, which had a thin piece of glue strung across the port. Removing that brought whatever I was hearing down significantly. Who knew these things were so sensitive...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEnigma View Post
Yea the noise sounded more like if you were to hold a piece of paper in front of a fan..It was that kind of high pitched fluttering. It didn't sound like typical port chuffing. I saw the glue the first day I got the 16 but never thought something so minor would affect the sound quality so drastically. I'm still having a hard time believing that was the reason lol.
Glad to see it was an easy fix
As Mike point out on the post just before this one, the design of a port is no easy task to make them perfect. The reason they can be sometime sensitive.


Ray
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Last edited by darthray; 02-27-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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post #30714 of 31351 Old 02-28-2019, 06:41 AM
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Ok guys, I have went ahead and re calibrated my system with audyssey Xt32 8 Position last night once again and this time I adjusted the subwoofer gain at the very beginning step of the calibration to match the requested 75db on screen spl reading that Audyssey requests during the first step of the calibration. This resulted in the gain on the SB3000 being set to precisely -16db

The calibration resulted in the front left and right BP8 definitive towers being set to 40hz by audyssey and the definitive CLR2002 Center Speaker set to 50hz, I have manually bumped up the crossover for the front left and right towers to 80hz and the center channel to 80hz as well, I have also gone ahead and set LPF of LFE to 80hz just to give it a try as some members in this thread have suggested that I do to get a “Cleaner” or “Tighter” bass.
As far as volume levels go, Audyssey defined the volume level for the subwoofer channel at precisely 0db after I completed the calibration.
With Dynamic EQ disabled the bass is just fine but as I’ve stated in the past I like what Dynamic EQ does to the overall sound of my system, it makes the sound almost come alive and sound crisper and just improves the sound quality overall so I enabled Dynamic EQ on all my sources with Auddysey set to “Reference” mode also known as “Movie” on the Onkyo NR818 Receiver(the other setting is “Music” also know as “Flat” but I never used that setting , Reference Level Offset is set to 0 for all sources except for the Cable TV Source which I set RLO to 10db.

Now, since I enabled Dynamic EQ I still feel like there seems to be a bit too much bass boost happening by Dynamic EQ at the low- moderate listening levels that I like to listen to so I went ahead and lowered the subwoofer channel volume on the AVR from 0 to -6db, the bass sounds more balanced now. Dynamic EQ just seems to apply an excessive amount of bass boost which requires me to make this subwoofer channel volume adjustment from 0 to -6db on the AVR. The gain on the SB3000 itself which is set to -16db has been left untouched since the calibration was completed.

By me setting LPF of LFE to 80hz, is there anything that I’m missing out on now? I don’t know if it’s placebo but the bass does sound cleaner as opposed to having LPF of LFE set to 120hz but I’d like to have it set to the proper value and if the proper value is 120hz then I’ll put it back to 120hz

Last edited by lamonsasa; 02-28-2019 at 06:52 AM.
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post #30715 of 31351 Old 02-28-2019, 08:54 AM
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I am moving to a new home with a dedicated home theater room that is approx 16ftx28ft with 8ft hipped ceiling (approx. 3000 cubic ft) with an open stairwell to the greatroom/dining/kitchen. My main speakers are Martin Logan Motion 40 with smaller Motion series all around. I currently own an SB-2000, which is underwelmimg in my current 960 cubic foot room. I originally bought the sealed sub because of footprint and musicality, but think that ported will serve better for my listening habits.

My budget is $2000 max, and was thinking about the PC-4000, wife likes the form factor. Then I was thinking that maybe for the same price, that 2 PC-2000 might be a better choice, but also thought that since a 2000 series sub that doesn't perform well in a smaller room that I would be better off with a single 4000 series sub.(possibly add a second in the future)

Do you think that 2-PC-2000's will be enough for that room.

I did email SVS and Jack was leaning toward the 2000's for dealing with room mode issues.

Thank you for your advise,
Sean
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post #30716 of 31351 Old 02-28-2019, 09:26 AM
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Just wanted to pass on some setup advice from SVS (specifically Ed Mullen) that I found interesting and wanted to pass on. I have dual PC-4000s in the rear of my living room. They are symmetric with respect to the room but MLP is off center a bit so about a 2 ft difference to subs (12ft and 14ft per Audyssey). I have a Denon x4300h so dual sub outs with XT32. I had been running wireless utilizing both sub outs. I have REW and in the past found the sub distance tweak helpful to improve sub/main integration and left phase alone. I recently ran and concealed dual RCA/coax lines to rear of room to eliminate wireless. So will be needing to re-do calibration and optimize FR and looking to take the best approach as I'm always learning ways to potentially improve things. Anyway asked Ed for set up advice in this scenario with respect to phase, sub distance, and what order to do it all in. The most interesting part was the recommendation when using XT32 (plus having REW capability) to use just a single sub out and split/daisy chain. We have seen Mark Seaton give similar advice when subs are on same wall/equidistant when using XT32 though I don't think many actually do this. Still not clear to me why FR may be better that way but yet another recommendation to do this. I think this is specifically an XT32 issue and not necessarily applicable to other room correction systems. I was advised to first level match and adjust phase on one or both subs using REW to get flattest FR for subs alone, then run Audyssey and adjust the single sub distance to optimize sub/main integration. Won't have time to do this for a week or so but will try. Too bad I just bought and ran 2 long coax runs from Blue Jeans when I may have needed only one. Oh well. I can report back when I get around to trying this. Of note I briefly tried this a year or so ago with my wireless set up (it was a very limited audyssey run) and something sounded way off with poor sub output so just scrapped it and didn't really check things out with REW or play with phase. I think I must have done something wrong though.

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post #30717 of 31351 Old 02-28-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
By me setting LPF of LFE to 80hz, is there anything that I’m missing out on now? I don’t know if it’s placebo but the bass does sound cleaner as opposed to having LPF of LFE set to 120hz but I’d like to have it set to the proper value and if the proper value is 120hz then I’ll put it back to 120hz
This section of @mthomas47 's Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences should answer your question.


III-B: Low Frequency Effects Channel
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post #30718 of 31351 Old 02-28-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarbagel View Post
I am moving to a new home with a dedicated home theater room that is approx 16ftx28ft with 8ft hipped ceiling (approx. 3000 cubic ft) with an open stairwell to the greatroom/dining/kitchen. My main speakers are Martin Logan Motion 40 with smaller Motion series all around. I currently own an SB-2000, which is underwelmimg in my current 960 cubic foot room. I originally bought the sealed sub because of footprint and musicality, but think that ported will serve better for my listening habits.

My budget is $2000 max, and was thinking about the PC-4000, wife likes the form factor. Then I was thinking that maybe for the same price, that 2 PC-2000 might be a better choice, but also thought that since a 2000 series sub that doesn't perform well in a smaller room that I would be better off with a single 4000 series sub.(possibly add a second in the future)

Do you think that 2-PC-2000's will be enough for that room.

I did email SVS and Jack was leaning toward the 2000's for dealing with room mode issues.

Thank you for your advise,
Sean

Hi Sean,

Two subs are generally better at dealing with room modes, than a single sub, assuming that they can be strategically positioned. So, I agree with Jack about that. But, in my opinion, that is only part of the issue when trying to select what sub or subs to buy. If you buy two PC2000's now, you should be able to have a better frequency response now, again assuming good subwoofer placement.

If you buy a single PC4000 now, you may give up some of the benefit now of an improved frequency response, but you will gain the benefit now of having lower extension and more <20Hz SPL and TR (tactile response). That can be important too in a 3000^3 room.

If you buy a PC4000 now, and add another one later, you will have the benefit later of both improved frequency response, and lower extension and more <20Hz SPL and TR.

There are some elements of instant gratification in both of the first two scenarios, with the trade-off between improved frequency response with dual subs, and lower extension and more individual horsepower from a single sub. The third scenario has the added element of better long-term planning, in my opinion. I think that it makes sense to select subs on the basis of their overall capabilities, and to then add multiples as needs and opportunities dictate.

For that reason, I would normally advise someone to select the sub with the lowest extension he may want (that is primarily dictated by the tuning point with ported subs) and that he can reasonably afford. And then, to add another identical sub when he can. That would be my advice in this case. I would go with the PC4000, if I were you. I think that once you hear more of the <20Hz frequencies, you will be hooked.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 02-28-2019 at 11:25 AM.
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post #30719 of 31351 Old 02-28-2019, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarbagel View Post
I am moving to a new home with a dedicated home theater room that is approx 16ftx28ft with 8ft hipped ceiling (approx. 3000 cubic ft) with an open stairwell to the greatroom/dining/kitchen. My main speakers are Martin Logan Motion 40 with smaller Motion series all around. I currently own an SB-2000, which is underwelmimg in my current 960 cubic foot room. I originally bought the sealed sub because of footprint and musicality, but think that ported will serve better for my listening habits.

My budget is $2000 max, and was thinking about the PC-4000, wife likes the form factor. Then I was thinking that maybe for the same price, that 2 PC-2000 might be a better choice, but also thought that since a 2000 series sub that doesn't perform well in a smaller room that I would be better off with a single 4000 series sub.(possibly add a second in the future)

Do you think that 2-PC-2000's will be enough for that room.

I did email SVS and Jack was leaning toward the 2000's for dealing with room mode issues.

Thank you for your advise,
Sean
Agree with Mike. I have an almost identically sized living room with a fixed opening on one wall. I have pretty much run through the gamut of SVS ported subs happily ending up with dual PC-4000s. Especially if this is a dedicated HT room where you may have opportunity to push the system would recommend starting with the more capable PC-4000 and adding a second later. Dual subs will definitely help out with smoother FR and while dual PC-2000s will still do very well might as well just start with the PC-4000 and avoid future upgrade hassles. Easier to add a second then trade up dual subs. Of course I didn't do it that way and traded up several times so wouldn't blame you for trying dual PC-2000s first.

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post #30720 of 31351 Old 02-28-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarbagel View Post
I am moving to a new home with a dedicated home theater room that is approx 16ftx28ft with 8ft hipped ceiling (approx. 3000 cubic ft) with an open stairwell to the greatroom/dining/kitchen. My main speakers are Martin Logan Motion 40 with smaller Motion series all around. I currently own an SB-2000, which is underwelmimg in my current 960 cubic foot room. I originally bought the sealed sub because of footprint and musicality, but think that ported will serve better for my listening habits.

My budget is $2000 max, and was thinking about the PC-4000, wife likes the form factor. Then I was thinking that maybe for the same price, that 2 PC-2000 might be a better choice, but also thought that since a 2000 series sub that doesn't perform well in a smaller room that I would be better off with a single 4000 series sub.(possibly add a second in the future)

Do you think that 2-PC-2000's will be enough for that room.

I did email SVS and Jack was leaning toward the 2000's for dealing with room mode issues.

Thank you for your advise,
Sean
The difference in low-end output between the SB-2000 and the PC-2000 is massive - so I wouldn't dismiss the dual PC-2000s as a great option. A pair of them will literally have 4-8X higher dynamic output in the 18-36 Hz octave than a single SB-2000.

A single PC-4000 is a great choice too, but as Jack pointed out earlier, the dual PC-2000s do have the advantage in providing a denser standing wave pattern than a single subwoofer.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS

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