Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 1030 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 44474Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #30871 of 31360 Old 04-09-2019, 07:14 AM
Member
 
Jermaine Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Random rattles can be very annoying, but they aren't always coming from the subwoofers' contact with the floor. Subwoofers, and especially ported subwoofers, produce both sound pressure (SPL) and particle velocity (literally air moving, as opposed to sound waves traveling through the air). So, using feet or pads under subs can help somewhat with vibrations transferred via direct contact with the subwoofer cabinet and a suspended wood floor, but they may not eliminate airborne vibrations caused by SPL and particle velocity.

One thing you can try to do is to isolate the vibration at the source of the rattle, by using little felt pads where the glass contacts the fireplace. Remember the little round felt pads made to go under lamps or whatever, to protect furniture? Something like this might work, and they would be available in different sizes at stores like Home Depot:

https://www.amazon.com/Self-Stick-Fu...s%2C144&sr=8-8

If you were determined to try an acoustic pad, there are larger ones like the one shown below, but they can get expensive. They don't need to be exactly the same size as the subwoofer, as long as they decouple the subwoofer from the floor. That decoupling usually works best with a suspended wood floor, which resonates in sympathy with certain frequencies. That's what your glass screen is doing. You can also make something yourself, using several thicknesses of carpet pad or foam rubber. You just want something that will reduce transferred vibrations from the cabinet to the wood floor.

https://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Acous...gateway&sr=8-1

It's hard to know what will work until you try something, but I would definitely consider the possibility that you need to isolate the rattling glass at the source of the rattle, rather than at the subwoofer cabinets' contact with the floor.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: Since other people read these threads, including Guests who can't post, I decided to add some detail to my post, for general interest. Good subwoofers, such as the PB3000, have fairly thick walls made of relatively inert MDF. The purpose of that is to prevent unwanted resonances within the cabinet itself. But, they are never completely inert. For instance, at high volumes, a subwoofer can slide a little bit on a polished surface such as marble, tile, or wood.

Meanwhile, suspended wood floors--floors which are elevated above a crawl space or on an upper floor--can resonate (vibrate like the head of a drum) at certain low-frequencies. The specific resonant frequency would probably be below 25Hz, and could be well below 20Hz, depending on the density of the construction. So, direct contact with a subwoofer cabinet can create some degree of sympathetic resonance with a suspended wood floor. And, decoupling the cabinet from the floor, with some type of acoustic material, may help with that.

But, that is not the only way that wood floors can be made to resonate sympathetically, and it is not the only way that vibrations may be transmitted to other parts of the room, or even to adjoining rooms. As noted in this and other posts, both sound waves and particle velocity (PV) can create tactile energy which makes the air-filled cavities of our chests resonate briefly (chest punch) from abrupt percussive mid-bass sounds, and which can make wood floors and adjoining structures resonate from low-bass sounds at high sound pressure levels.

So, decoupling a subwoofer from a suspended wood floor, may help a little or a lot, depending on the overall density of construction. Using my friend @darthray as an example, he gets a lot of sympathetic vibrations in walls, AC ducts, etc, in his HT, even on a concrete slab. So, in his case, he has to be careful about having too much SPL and PV under about 18Hz, and he has to treat vibrations at the source of the rattle. That is because airborne SPL and particle velocity are affecting his room, and not transferred vibrations from the subwoofer cabinets themselves. (Concrete laid on top of soil is not a very good conductor of direct vibration.)

I believe that this issue isn't as well understood as it might be, so I thought that some additional explanation could be helpful.
Thank you for your detailed response. I honestly hadn't even thought about isolating vibrations at the glass itself. I have some of those little pads already so I'm definitely going to give that a try. The only thing I worry about is the heat from the fireplace melting it. Well I'll try what I have for now and if it works, I'll look for something more permanent. I don't plan on using the fireplace much in the next few months anyway lol.
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

My Setup:
PS4 Pro - Sony UBP-X700 - Marantz SR-5012 - Monoprice Monolith 7x200 - Samsung UN65NU8000
2x DT Mythos Four (Fronts) - 1x DT Mythos Three (Center) - 2x DT Mythos Two (Rear Sides) - 2x DT SR8040 (Rear Surrounds) - 2x SVS PB-3000's
Jermaine Davis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #30872 of 31360 Old 04-09-2019, 06:18 PM
Senior Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 136
I currently hand dual PB-1000’s. They are located at the front of my soundstage about 9 feet away. I’m looking at adding a PC-2000 and putting it behind my couch beside my sofa table, roughly 3 feet behind. Opinions welcome.

OLED65B7P/ OPPO UDP-203/ DENON X4300H/ Klipsch RP 440c/ Klipsch RP 250f/ Klipsch RP 240s x4/ Klipsch RP 140sa/ Dual SVS PB-1000/ SVS SoundPath Isolation System/ Auralex Mopad riser for center channel/
rosstg is offline  
post #30873 of 31360 Old 04-09-2019, 06:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,277
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2096 Post(s)
Liked: 2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermaine Davis View Post
Thank you for your detailed response. I honestly hadn't even thought about isolating vibrations at the glass itself. I have some of those little pads already so I'm definitely going to give that a try. The only thing I worry about is the heat from the fireplace melting it. Well I'll try what I have for now and if it works, I'll look for something more permanent. I don't plan on using the fireplace much in the next few months anyway lol.

They can work wonders, fix many issues my-self in my Theater.
Movie posters, ashtrays, light system under those ashtrays, where you put Cool Aid drinks and so on.
Different sizes for different vibrations problem


Ray
darthray is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #30874 of 31360 Old 04-09-2019, 06:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,277
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2096 Post(s)
Liked: 2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstg View Post
I currently hand dual PB-1000’s. They are located at the front of my soundstage about 9 feet away. I’m looking at adding a PC-2000 and putting it behind my couch beside my sofa table, roughly 3 feet behind. Opinions welcome.
Unfortunately, there is no magic formula when it come sub/s location.
Only experimenting can tell if it will work.
Since there is too many variable, your seating area, the way your room react and so on.
Some locations will re-enforce some frequencies, some others will cancel each other.
And where the best location for the smoothest response are, with multiple subs is everybody guess.

Not sure if you are aware of this Guide;
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
It is full of useful information's. To understand how bass interact with your room, sub/s location/s, electronics settings and much more.
While it is a very long read, it is worth to read-it a few time to understand so many variables.


Ray
mthomas47 and Matt2026 like this.

Last edited by darthray; 04-09-2019 at 06:59 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #30875 of 31360 Old 04-09-2019, 06:57 PM
Senior Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Unfortunately, there is no magic formula when it come sub/s location.
Only experimenting can tell if it will work.
Since there is too many variable, your seating area, the way your room react and so on.
Some locations will re-enforce some frequencies, some others will cancel each other.
And where the best location for the smoothest response are, with multiple subs is everybody guess.

Not sure if you are aware of this Guide;
Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences
It is full of useful information's, to understand how bass interact with your room, sub/s location/s and electronics setting.
Right, I’m well aware that placement is critical. I was questioning if they would pair well since they have different response and also not sure about placing it closer or try the same distance further back in my room.

OLED65B7P/ OPPO UDP-203/ DENON X4300H/ Klipsch RP 440c/ Klipsch RP 250f/ Klipsch RP 240s x4/ Klipsch RP 140sa/ Dual SVS PB-1000/ SVS SoundPath Isolation System/ Auralex Mopad riser for center channel/
rosstg is offline  
post #30876 of 31360 Old 04-09-2019, 10:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
confinoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Shaker Heights, OH
Posts: 1,938
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1206 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstg View Post
Right, I’m well aware that placement is critical. I was questioning if they would pair well since they have different response and also not sure about placing it closer or try the same distance further back in my room.
Mixing identical or very similar subs is always best. The PC-2000 is significant step up in output and extension compared with the PB-1000. If you are going to mix them the typical recommendation is to have the lesser sub nearfield so your proposed set up would be suboptimal. If you specifically wanted a nearfield sub adding another pb-1000 may integrate better. However if you are just wanting an upgrade you would be better off swapping out the PB-1000s. Are you within the 1 year trade up period? If not it still may be worth asking SVS what the cost to upgrade would be. I started with a single pb-1000 and moved all the way up the line to dual pc-4000s. (pb-1000, pc-2000, pc-12+, dual pc-12+, dual pc-4000). The single most significant upgrade was when I went from the pb-1000 to the pc-2000. If it were me I would look into trading up to dual pc-2000s. They won’t take up any more floor space either.
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

LG OLED65C7P (Chad B Calibrated) | Denon X4300H | Tivo Roamio OTA | Nvidia Shield | ATV 4K | Oppo UDP-203 | Plex server
5.2.4 | Front Klipsch RP-160M x2 | Center Klipsch RP-450C | Surrounds Klipsch RP-150M x2 | Atmos Klipsch RP-140SA x 4 | Subs SVS PC-4000 x 2
confinoj is online now  
post #30877 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 04:57 AM
Senior Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Mixing identical or very similar subs is always best. The PC-2000 is significant step up in output and extension compared with the PB-1000. If you are going to mix them the typical recommendation is to have the lesser sub nearfield so your proposed set up would be suboptimal. If you specifically wanted a nearfield sub adding another pb-1000 may integrate better. However if you are just wanting an upgrade you would be better off swapping out the PB-1000s. Are you within the 1 year trade up period? If not it still may be worth asking SVS what the cost to upgrade would be. I started with a single pb-1000 and moved all the way up the line to dual pc-4000s. (pb-1000, pc-2000, pc-12+, dual pc-12+, dual pc-4000). The single most significant upgrade was when I went from the pb-1000 to the pc-2000. If it were me I would look into trading up to dual pc-2000s. They won’t take up any more floor space either.
Thanks for the input. I spoke with a rep from SVS yesterday and he said I shouldn’t have an issue. He said it would work. I’m well passed the upgrade window for 1 and I’m 1.5 years into the 2ns. I’m very happy with them. I was just thinking adding another larger sub in the back would improve things. I could put it anywhere really, I have enough space.

OLED65B7P/ OPPO UDP-203/ DENON X4300H/ Klipsch RP 440c/ Klipsch RP 250f/ Klipsch RP 240s x4/ Klipsch RP 140sa/ Dual SVS PB-1000/ SVS SoundPath Isolation System/ Auralex Mopad riser for center channel/
rosstg is offline  
post #30878 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 05:29 AM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,129
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5373 Post(s)
Liked: 10036
Quote:
Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
Mixing identical or very similar subs is always best. The PC-2000 is significant step up in output and extension compared with the PB-1000. If you are going to mix them the typical recommendation is to have the lesser sub nearfield so your proposed set up would be suboptimal. If you specifically wanted a nearfield sub adding another pb-1000 may integrate better. However if you are just wanting an upgrade you would be better off swapping out the PB-1000s. Are you within the 1 year trade up period? If not it still may be worth asking SVS what the cost to upgrade would be. I started with a single pb-1000 and moved all the way up the line to dual pc-4000s. (pb-1000, pc-2000, pc-12+, dual pc-12+, dual pc-4000). The single most significant upgrade was when I went from the pb-1000 to the pc-2000. If it were me I would look into trading up to dual pc-2000s. They won’t take up any more floor space either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstg View Post
Thanks for the input. I spoke with a rep from SVS yesterday and he said I shouldn’t have an issue. He said it would work. I’m well passed the upgrade window for 1 and I’m 1.5 years into the 2ns. I’m very happy with them. I was just thinking adding another larger sub in the back would improve things. I could put it anywhere really, I have enough space.

Hi,

I think that you got very good advice in the post I quoted just above. All of the SVS representatives I have talked with are very nice people, but the advice you get from representative-to-representative can vary quite widely. Unless you are talking with Ed Mullen, I would pay attention to what @confinoj was saying. The PB1000 and the PB (or PC) 2000 have different tuning points and different frequency responses. It isn't just that the bigger subwoofer plays louder than the other one does. It's also that the shape of the frequency response is different.

When you put mismatched ported subs (with different port tunes and different roll-offs) in a room together, the results are unpredictable. You might get lucky and find that the room modes somehow work in your favor due to placement. However, what you would expect is to have cancellation at and below the tuning point of the less capable sub. In this case, that could mean that you would have cancellation (no bass) starting at 25Hz or higher and continuing below 20Hz.

I'm not saying that will absolutely happen, but the odds may not be in your favor. This is not something that I know how to predict, and from what Ed has said, he isn't sure how to predict it either. There was a series of posts a few pages back involving cancellation occurring between two PB13's and two PB16's, and I think that they are more alike than the PB1000 and the PB2000 are. You may remember that discussion. At the time, Ed repeated once again, that mismatching ported subs is not usually a good idea.

If you just want a little more of what you have now, you could always add another PB1000. That would be a perfectly safe thing to do. If you want a substantial upgrade in low-frequency performance (the PB2000 will always go lower than the 1000's can) then I would sell the PB1000's and buy dual PB2000's, or PB3000's. That would be a much better long-term plan, if you can afford to do that.

If you are determined to try a PC2000 with your PB1000's, then I would stack the two PB1000's, to maximize their combined strength, and hope for the best. You might get lucky on placement, vis-a-vis room modes, and end-up with an audible improvement in your low-bass. Or, you might not. You might not get any improvement at all below about 25Hz or so. That's the gamble.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 04-10-2019 at 05:34 AM.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #30879 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 07:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ed Mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermaine Davis View Post
Thank you for your detailed response. I honestly hadn't even thought about isolating vibrations at the glass itself. I have some of those little pads already so I'm definitely going to give that a try. The only thing I worry about is the heat from the fireplace melting it. Well I'll try what I have for now and if it works, I'll look for something more permanent. I don't plan on using the fireplace much in the next few months anyway lol.
You'll need to find some high temp caulking which can withstand the extremely high temperatures generated by the wood burning stove. The glass panes are often loosely mounted in the doors to allow for the expansion of the steel/iron when hot. So the caulk needs to remain flexible in addition to withstanding high temps. Talk to the local stove center for best product recommendations.
darthray likes this.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS

"What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity"
Ed Mullen is offline  
post #30880 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 08:34 AM
Member
 
Jermaine Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
You'll need to find some high temp caulking which can withstand the extremely high temperatures generated by the wood burning stove. The glass panes are often loosely mounted in the doors to allow for the expansion of the steel/iron when hot. So the caulk needs to remain flexible in addition to withstanding high temps. Talk to the local stove center for best product recommendations.
Thanks for that suggestion. Unfortunately, it looks like my problem is more than just the glass for the fireplace. I removed the glass today and tried the subs and there was no change. Apparently, it's the ENTIRE fireplace that's vibrating, not just the glass like I thought. I have no idea about this one. I guess I'm back to square one which is looking into ways to isolate the subs themselves. Any suggestions?

My Setup:
PS4 Pro - Sony UBP-X700 - Marantz SR-5012 - Monoprice Monolith 7x200 - Samsung UN65NU8000
2x DT Mythos Four (Fronts) - 1x DT Mythos Three (Center) - 2x DT Mythos Two (Rear Sides) - 2x DT SR8040 (Rear Surrounds) - 2x SVS PB-3000's
Jermaine Davis is offline  
post #30881 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 08:47 AM
Senior Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think that you got very good advice in the post I quoted just above. All of the SVS representatives I have talked with are very nice people, but the advice you get from representative-to-representative can vary quite widely. Unless you are talking with Ed Mullen, I would pay attention to what @confinoj was saying. The PB1000 and the PB (or PC) 2000 have different tuning points and different frequency responses. It isn't just that the bigger subwoofer plays louder than the other one does. It's also that the shape of the frequency response is different.

When you put mismatched ported subs (with different port tunes and different roll-offs) in a room together, the results are unpredictable. You might get lucky and find that the room modes somehow work in your favor due to placement. However, what you would expect is to have cancellation at and below the tuning point of the less capable sub. In this case, that could mean that you would have cancellation (no bass) starting at 25Hz or higher and continuing below 20Hz.

I'm not saying that will absolutely happen, but the odds may not be in your favor. This is not something that I know how to predict, and from what Ed has said, he isn't sure how to predict it either. There was a series of posts a few pages back involving cancellation occurring between two PB13's and two PB16's, and I think that they are more alike than the PB1000 and the PB2000 are. You may remember that discussion. At the time, Ed repeated once again, that mismatching ported subs is not usually a good idea.

If you just want a little more of what you have now, you could always add another PB1000. That would be a perfectly safe thing to do. If you want a substantial upgrade in low-frequency performance (the PB2000 will always go lower than the 1000's can) then I would sell the PB1000's and buy dual PB2000's, or PB3000's. That would be a much better long-term plan, if you can afford to do that.

If you are determined to try a PC2000 with your PB1000's, then I would stack the two PB1000's, to maximize their combined strength, and hope for the best. You might get lucky on placement, vis-a-vis room modes, and end-up with an audible improvement in your low-bass. Or, you might not. You might not get any improvement at all below about 25Hz or so. That's the gamble.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks. I still have months to make my decision. If have finally locked in good placement for my PB’s the other day. I had to pull them out significantly from the wall, the bass is much better now. It was getting lost too close to the wall. Again I’m more than happy with them and don’t want to sell them, I might look at adding 2x more PB1000’s but I liked the smaller footprint. The rep I spoke with said when I run Audyssey I won’t have to worry about the PC rolling off where the PB’s do.

OLED65B7P/ OPPO UDP-203/ DENON X4300H/ Klipsch RP 440c/ Klipsch RP 250f/ Klipsch RP 240s x4/ Klipsch RP 140sa/ Dual SVS PB-1000/ SVS SoundPath Isolation System/ Auralex Mopad riser for center channel/

Last edited by rosstg; 04-10-2019 at 09:58 AM.
rosstg is offline  
post #30882 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 09:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ed Mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermaine Davis View Post
Thanks for that suggestion. Unfortunately, it looks like my problem is more than just the glass for the fireplace. I removed the glass today and tried the subs and there was no change. Apparently, it's the ENTIRE fireplace that's vibrating, not just the glass like I thought. I have no idea about this one. I guess I'm back to square one which is looking into ways to isolate the subs themselves. Any suggestions?
Wood burning stoves are rattletraps because they need room for thermal expansion. So you may never be able to solve that issue completely.

As you noted, the SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation system did significantly reduce the rattles in the house. Those rattles were the result of the transmission of mechanical energy through the flooring system (which as others have stated acts like a huge transducer).

But you will not be able to eliminate the acoustic sound pressure of the subwoofer - unless you literally turn-down the subwoofer channel or the master volume. So there will always be some buzz/rattle due to sound pressure and not mechanical energy.

Anything that buzzes due to sound pressure needs to be addressed at the device itself (which is why Blu tack is so popular with high performance subwoofer owners).
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS

"What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity"
Ed Mullen is offline  
post #30883 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 02:12 PM
Writer & Reviewer
 
JimWilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Somewhere in New Joisey
Posts: 8,116
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2155 Post(s)
Liked: 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
The PB1000 and the PB (or PC) 2000 have different tuning points and different frequency responses. It isn't just that the bigger subwoofer plays louder than the other one does. It's also that the shape of the frequency response is different.

When you put mismatched ported subs (with different port tunes and different roll-offs) in a room together, the results are unpredictable. You might get lucky and find that the room modes somehow work in your favor due to placement. However, what you would expect is to have cancellation at and below the tuning point of the less capable sub. In this case, that could mean that you would have cancellation (no bass) starting at 25Hz or higher and continuing below 20Hz.
+1

The PB1000 and PC2000 are likely to have that very issue so it's probably not a good idea to try and integrate them into the same system.

 
If you take yourself too seriously expect me to do the exact opposite...
JimWilson is offline  
post #30884 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 02:18 PM
Senior Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Thanks everyone. I will likely take your advice, perhaps I’ll pickup 2 more PB1000’s. Unfortunately it’s a lot more money, I’m in Canada.
mthomas47 likes this.

OLED65B7P/ OPPO UDP-203/ DENON X4300H/ Klipsch RP 440c/ Klipsch RP 250f/ Klipsch RP 240s x4/ Klipsch RP 140sa/ Dual SVS PB-1000/ SVS SoundPath Isolation System/ Auralex Mopad riser for center channel/
rosstg is offline  
post #30885 of 31360 Old 04-10-2019, 06:02 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,277
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2096 Post(s)
Liked: 2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Wood burning stoves are rattletraps because they need room for thermal expansion. So you may never be able to solve that issue completely.

As you noted, the SoundPath Subwoofer Isolation system did significantly reduce the rattles in the house. Those rattles were the result of the transmission of mechanical energy through the flooring system (which as others have stated acts like a huge transducer).

But you will not be able to eliminate the acoustic sound pressure of the subwoofer - unless you literally turn-down the subwoofer channel or the master volume. So there will always be some buzz/rattle due to sound pressure and not mechanical energy.

Anything that buzzes due to sound pressure needs to be addressed at the device itself (which is why Blu tack is so popular with high performance subwoofer owners).
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermaine Davis View Post
Thanks for that suggestion. Unfortunately, it looks like my problem is more than just the glass for the fireplace. I removed the glass today and tried the subs and there was no change. Apparently, it's the ENTIRE fireplace that's vibrating, not just the glass like I thought. I have no idea about this one. I guess I'm back to square one which is looking into ways to isolate the subs themselves. Any suggestions?

I like your style, by thinking outside the box. Removing the glass did show the real culprit of your vibration problem. Instead of chasing a ghost, well done Jermaine
I do agree with Ed post, therefore I got no suggestion on this one. Other than perhaps trying a different locations for your sub. But could result in a worst bass response, and may not fix your problem

Since I never owned a fireplace, I never thought of the thermal expansion. Even if your chimney was metal, and not bricks. It would unfortunately require, your whole wall to be open to remedy this problem. And than meaning never be able to use your fireplace again, due to fire potential. And also reducing the value of your place when selling-it.

This is a bummer, since as a community we were not able to offer any solid suggestion


Ray
mthomas47 likes this.

Last edited by darthray; 04-10-2019 at 06:22 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #30886 of 31360 Old 04-11-2019, 10:02 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 1
So decided to go with either a single PB4000 or PB16 Ultra for my setup. (Klipsch RP8000 towers, 504 center, 4 x RP600M surrounds powered by a Yamaha A3070).

I may eventually go dual but for my 19 by 15 by 9 room I am hoping one of these will suffice.

Price difference between the 2 is 650 Canadian dollars or about 450 usd.

Hoping for some input on which one I should go with? I am leaning towards the PB16U just based on the fact I don't want to send one back and exchange if I'm underwhelmed.

Thanks
Tyler Giesbrecht is offline  
post #30887 of 31360 Old 04-11-2019, 01:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene4ht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 3,950
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1969 Post(s)
Liked: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Giesbrecht View Post
So decided to go with either a single PB4000 or PB16 Ultra for my setup. (Klipsch RP8000 towers, 504 center, 4 x RP600M surrounds powered by a Yamaha A3070).

I may eventually go dual but for my 19 by 15 by 9 room I am hoping one of these will suffice.

Price difference between the 2 is 650 Canadian dollars or about 450 usd.

Hoping for some input on which one I should go with? I am leaning towards the PB16U just based on the fact I don't want to send one back and exchange if I'm underwhelmed.

Thanks
Just offering a different possibility/perspective...

I’ve have had dual PB2000’s in a 18x30x8 space and found their performance very satisfying. If your use case is primarily movies, have you considered dual PB3000’s? If you have not had a great deal of experience with quality subwoofers, IMO it would be beneficial to listen to the 3000 as a baseline...they will not be disappointing/underwhelming in your space. I’m making the assumption that at least one Canadian dealer offers SVS’s Bill Of Rights policy so the 4000 and 16 are always upgrade options. Most enthusiasts find/consider experimenting with and auditioning different subs the fun and exciting part of our hobby.
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
gene4ht is offline  
post #30888 of 31360 Old 04-11-2019, 06:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,277
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2096 Post(s)
Liked: 2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Just offering a different possibility/perspective...

I’ve have had dual PB2000’s in a 18x30x8 space and found their performance very satisfying. If your use case is primarily movies, have you considered dual PB3000’s? If you have not had a great deal of experience with quality subwoofers, IMO it would be beneficial to listen to the 3000 as a baseline...they will not be disappointing/underwhelming in your space. I’m making the assumption that at least one Canadian dealer offers SVS’s Bill Of Rights policy so the 4000 and 16 are always upgrade options. Most enthusiasts find/consider experimenting with and auditioning different subs the fun and exciting part of our hobby.
While I do like your different option
After doing a quick check, I could not find a single offering from a Canadian dealer on the PB3000
For the Bill of Right, I have no idea if any offer-it. Since once they got a sub from SVS, they are stuck with them until they sell.
And the profit margin, must be smaller as a re-seller.
But do offer a 5% discount (at least this one http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/), for multiple purchase or buying SVS products a second time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Giesbrecht View Post
So decided to go with either a single PB4000 or PB16 Ultra for my setup. (Klipsch RP8000 towers, 504 center, 4 x RP600M surrounds powered by a Yamaha A3070).

I may eventually go dual but for my 19 by 15 by 9 room I am hoping one of these will suffice.

Price difference between the 2 is 650 Canadian dollars or about 450 usd.

Hoping for some input on which one I should go with? I am leaning towards the PB16U just based on the fact I don't want to send one back and exchange if I'm underwhelmed.

Thanks
Hi Tyler

I also live in Alberta, and welcome as a poster this forum
For witch one to get, only you can decide. What you are comfortable to pay, from your budget.

I personally think both are good choice. And have to keep in mind, if going dual in the future.
The BP16 will end-up costing a lot more.

That said, if it was me. I would also go with a single PB16, since I have the mentality of doing once. Even if going dual in the future.


Ray

Last edited by darthray; 04-11-2019 at 07:32 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #30889 of 31360 Old 04-11-2019, 07:22 PM
Senior Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 136
I think I’m still going with the PC2000. Instead of placing it behind my couch it will be going in the rear along my side wall approx 7 feet away from my main seat. My dual PB1000’s are 8 ft away in the front. This way I won’t have to worry about any near field issues. If that doesn’t work I will place it on my front wall in the corner with my dual PB’s behind my couch.
Magellan55 likes this.

OLED65B7P/ OPPO UDP-203/ DENON X4300H/ Klipsch RP 440c/ Klipsch RP 250f/ Klipsch RP 240s x4/ Klipsch RP 140sa/ Dual SVS PB-1000/ SVS SoundPath Isolation System/ Auralex Mopad riser for center channel/
rosstg is offline  
post #30890 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 08:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene4ht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 3,950
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1969 Post(s)
Liked: 2657
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
While I do like your different option
After doing a quick check, I could not find a single offering from a Canadian dealer on the PB3000
For the Bill of Right
, I have no idea if any offer-it. Since once they got a sub from SVS, they are stuck with them until they sell.
And the profit margin, must be smaller as a re-seller.
But do offer a 5% discount (at least this one http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/), for multiple purchase or buying SVS products a second time
Appreciate your followup and input Darth!

Admittedly, I have no first hand knowledge of the product and policy offerings of Canadian SVS dealers and only recall seeing brief postings/comments about the capabilities of Summit and EFL. My recommendations for the PB3000 are based on my own overall and excellent first hand knowledge/experience with SVS's earlier cylinders, SB/PB1000, SB/PB2000, PB13, and PB16. With this experience, it was a no brainer to recommend the PB3000 for someone who did not appear (my apologies if I'm in error) to have a great deal of experience with the performance and capability of quality subwoofers for establishing a personal baseline...especially after @JimWilson recent review of the PB3000. At any rate, it's unfortunate that the PB3000 and/or the Bill of Rights may not be available in Canada. Hopefully this is on the "To Do" list for Gary, Ed, and company!
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
gene4ht is offline  
post #30891 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 11:48 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ed Mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think that you got very good advice in the post I quoted just above. All of the SVS representatives I have talked with are very nice people, but the advice you get from representative-to-representative can vary quite widely. Unless you are talking with Ed Mullen, I would pay attention to what @confinoj was saying. The PB1000 and the PB (or PC) 2000 have different tuning points and different frequency responses. It isn't just that the bigger subwoofer plays louder than the other one does. It's also that the shape of the frequency response is different.

When you put mismatched ported subs (with different port tunes and different roll-offs) in a room together, the results are unpredictable. You might get lucky and find that the room modes somehow work in your favor due to placement. However, what you would expect is to have cancellation at and below the tuning point of the less capable sub. In this case, that could mean that you would have cancellation (no bass) starting at 25Hz or higher and continuing below 20Hz.

I'm not saying that will absolutely happen, but the odds may not be in your favor. This is not something that I know how to predict, and from what Ed has said, he isn't sure how to predict it either. There was a series of posts a few pages back involving cancellation occurring between two PB13's and two PB16's, and I think that they are more alike than the PB1000 and the PB2000 are. You may remember that discussion. At the time, Ed repeated once again, that mismatching ported subs is not usually a good idea.

If you just want a little more of what you have now, you could always add another PB1000. That would be a perfectly safe thing to do. If you want a substantial upgrade in low-frequency performance (the PB2000 will always go lower than the 1000's can) then I would sell the PB1000's and buy dual PB2000's, or PB3000's. That would be a much better long-term plan, if you can afford to do that.

If you are determined to try a PC2000 with your PB1000's, then I would stack the two PB1000's, to maximize their combined strength, and hope for the best. You might get lucky on placement, vis-a-vis room modes, and end-up with an audible improvement in your low-bass. Or, you might not. You might not get any improvement at all below about 25Hz or so. That's the gamble.

Regards,
Mike
Great post. This is really a 'shades of gray' and 'good, better, best' type scenario.

  • Mixing sealed and ported is usually a mess and we don't recommend it.

  • Mixing two different ported with dissimilar tuning frequencies can indeed result in phase cancellation over certain bandwidths, but is typically a far better outcome than sealed/ported.

  • Even mixing two different generations of the same basic subwoofer (e.g., PC13-Ultra and PC-4000) can results in minor phase cancellation simply due to the differences in the DSP flash files - particularly the PEQs and the HPF freq/Q value.

  • Multiples of the same exact model/vintage is best of course.

In this particular situation, the PB-1000 is tuned to about 22 Hz and the PC-2000 is tuned to about 18 Hz - so there won't be perfect phasing between them (and I think that's intuitively obvious to most readers here), but it won't be disaster either - the PC2K nearfield will definitely add some major low-end capability to this system. Blending near-field and far-field has its own set of challenges (even with the same exact model) - so experimentation with placement and the phase controls will be the order of the day.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS

"What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity"
Ed Mullen is offline  
post #30892 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 12:06 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ed Mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Giesbrecht View Post
So decided to go with either a single PB4000 or PB16 Ultra for my setup. (Klipsch RP8000 towers, 504 center, 4 x RP600M surrounds powered by a Yamaha A3070).

I may eventually go dual but for my 19 by 15 by 9 room I am hoping one of these will suffice.

Price difference between the 2 is 650 Canadian dollars or about 450 usd.

Hoping for some input on which one I should go with? I am leaning towards the PB16U just based on the fact I don't want to send one back and exchange if I'm underwhelmed.

Thanks

Both subs will provide a very similar experience subjectively.

So this really boils down to how loud you'll be playing the system on demanding action/sci-fi content and how much slam/impact you want on strong LFE passages.

Either subwoofer can easily handle this size room - unless you really need the extra headroom afforded by the PB16-Ultra (i.e., pushing the master volume to extreme levels and running the sub channel pretty hot) the PB-4000 will be more than enough for this application.
darthray likes this.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS

"What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity"
Ed Mullen is offline  
post #30893 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 12:24 PM
AVS ***** Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,129
Mentioned: 324 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5373 Post(s)
Liked: 10036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Great post. This is really a 'shades of gray' and 'good, better, best' type scenario.

  • Mixing sealed and ported is usually a mess and we don't recommend it.
  • Mixing two different ported with dissimilar tuning frequencies can indeed result in phase cancellation over certain bandwidths, but is typically a far better outcome than sealed/ported.
  • Even mixing two different generations of the same basic subwoofer (e.g., PC13-Ultra and PC-4000) can results in minor phase cancellation simply due to the differences in the DSP flash files - particularly the PEQs and the HPF freq/Q value.
  • Multiples of the same exact model/vintage is best of course.

In this particular situation, the PB-1000 is tuned to about 22 Hz and the PC-2000 is tuned to about 18 Hz - so there won't be perfect phasing between them (and I think that's intuitively obvious to most readers here), but it won't be disaster either - the PC2K nearfield will definitely add some major low-end capability to this system. Blending near-field and far-field has its own set of challenges (even with the same exact model) - so experimentation with placement and the phase controls will be the order of the day.

Hi Ed,

Thank you very much for the compliment! I appreciate it, and I also appreciate the additional clarification. I like your shades of gray. I have found myself struggling a little to understand where potential phase cancellation will, and will not, adversely affect the frequency response, and the audible bass. And, I have concluded that it must also have something to do with specific room modes in specific rooms.

Somebody posed a question recently on the Guide thread that involved potentially mixing a PB13 with a PB4000. That's the very scenario you mentioned in your post. If I look at the basic shape of the frequency response of the two subs, in one-port extended mode, (SVS graph for the PB4000, and Data-Bass for the PB13) it is obvious that the roll-off is different, starting at about 40Hz, and increasing at about 31.5Hz.

Systems of automated room correction can help to address differences in volume at the same frequencies, and peaks and minor dips in the overall frequency response. But, I assume that there could be cancellation (involving more significant dips/nulls that room correction can't fix) occurring anywhere the basic shape of the frequency response is different. Is that correct? Then, depending on subwoofer placement, specific room modes may, or may not, remediate or exacerbate the problem to some extent. And, adjusting the phase on one of the subs may, or may not, help a little. Is that a fair way to think about it?

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I decided that I should add something to my post, because I left out something important that I want to understand better. If I understand it correctly, the first aspect of the problem of mismatched ported subwoofers (or of mixing ported and sealed) is that the driver and the port(s) of an individual ported subwoofer are out-of-phase, with each other, as the sub nears its tuning point. Somewhere around or slightly above the tuning point, the ports will be contributing virtually all of the SPL, and the driver will stop moving forward and backward due to air pressure within the cabinet. At the point where that occurs, the ports and the driver will be out-of-phase with each other.

A little below that point, the driver will be operating in free air, as the cabinet depressurizes, and the out-of-phase condition will go away, but the HPF will kick-in, rolling-off the frequency response. Isn't it that inherent out-of-phase condition between driver and ports (within the same cabinet) that creates problems when you mix subwoofers with different port tunes, or sealed and ported subs? Then, the different shape of the frequency response creates a separate set of issues in addition to that first one. Is that close?
darthray likes this.

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 04-12-2019 at 12:58 PM.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #30894 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 01:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ed Mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Ed,

Thank you very much for the compliment! I appreciate it, and I also appreciate the additional clarification. I like your shades of gray. I have found myself struggling a little to understand where potential phase cancellation will, and will not, adversely affect the frequency response, and the audible bass. And, I have concluded that it must also have something to do with specific room modes in specific rooms.

Somebody posed a question recently on the Guide thread that involved potentially mixing a PB13 with a PB4000. That's the very scenario you mentioned in your post. If I look at the basic shape of the frequency response of the two subs, in one-port extended mode, (SVS graph for the PB4000, and Data-Bass for the PB13) it is obvious that the roll-off is different, starting at about 40Hz, and increasing at about 31.5Hz.

Systems of automated room correction can help to address differences in volume at the same frequencies, and peaks and minor dips in the overall frequency response. But, I assume that there could be cancellation (involving more significant dips/nulls that room correction can't fix) occurring anywhere the basic shape of the frequency response is different. Is that correct? Then, depending on subwoofer placement, specific room modes may, or may not, remediate or exacerbate the problem to some extent. And, adjusting the phase on one of the subs may, or may not, help a little. Is that a fair way to think about it?

Regards,
Mike


Edit: I decided that I should add something to my post, because I left out something important that I want to understand better. If I understand it correctly, the first aspect of the problem of mismatched ported subwoofers (or of mixing ported and sealed) is that the driver and the port(s) of an individual ported subwoofer are out-of-phase, with each other, as the sub nears its tuning point. Somewhere around or slightly above the tuning point, the ports will be contributing virtually all of the SPL, and the driver will stop moving forward and backward due to air pressure within the cabinet. At the point where that occurs, the ports and the driver will be out-of-phase with each other.

A little below that point, the driver will be operating in free air, as the cabinet depressurizes, and the out-of-phase condition will go away, but the HPF will kick-in, rolling-off the frequency response. Isn't it that inherent out-of-phase condition between driver and ports (within the same cabinet) that creates problems when you mix subwoofers with different port tunes, or sealed and ported subs? Then, the different shape of the frequency response creates a separate set of issues in addition to that first one. Is that close?

If you want to completely isolate the two subs from any room modes - the best way is outdoors ground plane side by side and level matched. Measure the FR of subwoofer #1 , measure the FR of subwoofer #2 , and then measure the FR of subwoofer 1+2.

Two identical subs will have the same exact FR and when combined will show the same FR - only 6 dB louder. Two different subs will show partial cancellation over certain bandwidths (and not always just near tuning) - and this is a function of the differences in their respective phase responses. Sometimes the cancellation is mild - other times it's quite obvious.
darthray and mthomas47 like this.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS

"What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity"
Ed Mullen is offline  
post #30895 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 01:50 PM
Senior Member
 
rosstg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 276
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Great post. This is really a 'shades of gray' and 'good, better, best' type scenario.

  • Mixing sealed and ported is usually a mess and we don't recommend it.

  • Mixing two different ported with dissimilar tuning frequencies can indeed result in phase cancellation over certain bandwidths, but is typically a far better outcome than sealed/ported.

  • Even mixing two different generations of the same basic subwoofer (e.g., PC13-Ultra and PC-4000) can results in minor phase cancellation simply due to the differences in the DSP flash files - particularly the PEQs and the HPF freq/Q value.

  • Multiples of the same exact model/vintage is best of course.

In this particular situation, the PB-1000 is tuned to about 22 Hz and the PC-2000 is tuned to about 18 Hz - so there won't be perfect phasing between them (and I think that's intuitively obvious to most readers here), but it won't be disaster either - the PC2K nearfield will definitely add some major low-end capability to this system. Blending near-field and far-field has its own set of challenges (even with the same exact model) - so experimentation with placement and the phase controls will be the order of the day.
Thanks. Will I run into issues if I place 2 more 1000’s behind my couch in the near field?

OLED65B7P/ OPPO UDP-203/ DENON X4300H/ Klipsch RP 440c/ Klipsch RP 250f/ Klipsch RP 240s x4/ Klipsch RP 140sa/ Dual SVS PB-1000/ SVS SoundPath Isolation System/ Auralex Mopad riser for center channel/
rosstg is offline  
post #30896 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 01:55 PM
Member
 
phannon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Darthray:


Have you thought about ordering a subwoofer directly from SVS in the US?


I ordered an SB-2000 from SVS about 5 years ago. There were no problems with getting it shipped and the landed cost was no different.....if not cheaper!.....than trying to go from Sonicboom......I believe it was at the time. The sub arrived by Fedex I believe in about a week or 10 days or so...not bad for way out here in Newfoundland! I had a problem with a noisy amp section and after a few e-mail exchanges, they sent me a replacement amp to install and I returned the defective unit. The service was great...and from the source. I would recommend this route......unless one can no longer order directly if in Canada. You could contact them and see if this is an option......and you get to chose from all the models......


Cheers,
Phannon
phannon is online now  
post #30897 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 06:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
darthray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cold lake Alberta Canada
Posts: 6,277
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2096 Post(s)
Liked: 2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Just offering a different possibility/perspective...

I’ve have had dual PB2000’s in a 18x30x8 space and found their performance very satisfying. If your use case is primarily movies, have you considered dual PB3000’s? If you have not had a great deal of experience with quality subwoofers, IMO it would be beneficial to listen to the 3000 as a baseline...they will not be disappointing/underwhelming in your space. I’m making the assumption that at least one Canadian dealer offers SVS’s Bill Of Rights policy so the 4000 and 16 are always upgrade options. Most enthusiasts find/consider experimenting with and auditioning different subs the fun and exciting part of our hobby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
While I do like your different option
After doing a quick check, I could not find a single offering from a Canadian dealer on the PB3000
For the Bill of Right, I have no idea if any offer-it. Since once they got a sub from SVS, they are stuck with them until they sell.
And the profit margin, must be smaller as a re-seller.
But do offer a 5% discount (at least this one http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/), for multiple purchase or buying SVS products a second time



Hi Tyler

I also live in Alberta, and welcome as a poster this forum
For witch one to get, only you can decide. What you are comfortable to pay, from your budget.

I personally think both are good choice. And have to keep in mind, if going dual in the future.
The BP16 will end-up costing a lot more.

That said, if it was me. I would also go with a single PB16, since I have the mentality of doing once. Even if going dual in the future.


Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by phannon View Post
Darthray:


Have you thought about ordering a subwoofer directly from SVS in the US?


I ordered an SB-2000 from SVS about 5 years ago. There were no problems with getting it shipped and the landed cost was no different.....if not cheaper!.....than trying to go from Sonicboom......I believe it was at the time. The sub arrived by Fedex I believe in about a week or 10 days or so...not bad for way out here in Newfoundland! I had a problem with a noisy amp section and after a few e-mail exchanges, they sent me a replacement amp to install and I returned the defective unit. The service was great...and from the source. I would recommend this route......unless one can no longer order directly if in Canada. You could contact them and see if this is an option......and you get to chose from all the models......


Cheers,
Phannon
Hi Phannon

My post was replying to @gene4ht trying to help @Tyler Giesbrecht.
And did like his option, but could not find a CDN retailer for a price.

To answer your question, my first sub from SVS. A PB12Plus/2 was order directly from them, around 2004.
And also do agree with you, the end cost will turn out about the same after the exchange/broker fee and shipping.
So is the Outstanding Customer Service, even when asking questions before ordering from a CDN retailer

The biggest difference, from ordering from a CDN retailer. You know in advance the end price.
That said, you may not have the Bill of Right if not ordering directly from SVS.

I like to finish by saying Thank You for your post and your suggestion, and will keep-it in mind for future post as a suggestion
I work around many Newfoundlander, and like me learning English later in life been French.
I am sometime been ask if I am from back east, since most do not pronounce the H in the words using TH


Ray


Edit for CDN future buyer, I was told a few time.
This link is a good place to save money on Broker fee;
https://www.baycitybrokers.ca/
That said, no guaranty from me. Since I never tried-it, when I do buying from the US for my next big purchase. I will report back!!!
gene4ht and mthomas47 like this.

Last edited by darthray; 04-12-2019 at 08:24 PM.
darthray is offline  
post #30898 of 31360 Old 04-12-2019, 09:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 84
I've been going through some of my old favorites testing the PB16's for the past two weeks and have been smiling ear to ear on just about every movie.
I had a bit of buyers remorse after getting the PB13's and still having movie scenes where I wanted just a little bit more.

Not a single movie so far where I've desired more bass or heard them run out of headroom/make audible overdrive artifacts like the 13s or 12plus.
I level matched them to the 13s then added a 4db PEQ boost under 35hz. In addition to the extra output there's a real aggression to the PB16's sound signature that I enjoy listening to.
While the 13's did get deafeningly loud they never "attacked" me like the PB16's do, which is more or less what I wanted out of a high end sub.

Super happy with the upgrade so far!
Lets hope the trend continues...

5.2.2 | Samsung KS8500 | Sony UBP-X800 | Yamaha RX-A1060 | SVS Ultra Center | SVS Ultra Towers | SVS Ultra Bookshelves | SVS Prime Elevations | 2x PB16-Ultra | Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3 | Emotiva BasX A-300
DarkEnigma is offline  
post #30899 of 31360 Old 04-13-2019, 04:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ed Mullen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,425
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosstg View Post
Thanks. Will I run into issues if I place 2 more 1000’s behind my couch in the near field?
They will all have the same phase response, which is a plus. Level matching and time alignment is the challenge - you'll need to add some phase delay to the near-field subs if they are not integrating well with the far-field subs.
darthray and rosstg like this.

Ed Mullen
Director - Technology and Customer Service
SVS

"What We Do In Life, Echoes In Eternity"
Ed Mullen is offline  
post #30900 of 31360 Old 04-13-2019, 05:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 426
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 242 Post(s)
Liked: 158
So most of the discussion of mis-matched subs involves ported. Do mismatched sealed subs have an easier time blending together? I'm getting the itch to get a 3rd sub, both to address a vertical null in my room and, well, for SPL :-) For now I have the vertical null addressed with an old ESW-8 sitting on a 3rd wall 2 feet off the floor, with the gain turned down a bit so it's just filling in the null without messing with the whole spectrum (REW checked). All along my plan was to replace that with a 3rd SB2000, but the new SB3000 will also fit.

So now i'm wondering if the extra SPL from the SB3000 would be worth possibly messing with the way the subs play together. And I don't know how accurate the frequency plots are on the SVS website, but the SB2000 looks to roll off more gently at the low end than the SB3000, so theoretically could give me more sub-20Hz SPL after room gain.

Thoughts?

HT: OLED65E6P (ChadB cal'd), STR-DN1080, UBP-X800, 7 Take Classics, Dual SB2000's
LR: 47LW5600

Last edited by Magellan55; 04-13-2019 at 05:51 PM.
Magellan55 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Tags
Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , svs pb12 plus , Svs Pb13 Ultra , svs pc-4000 , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off