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post #30901 of 31925 Old 04-13-2019, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magellan55 View Post
So most of the discussion of mis-matched subs involves ported. Do mismatched sealed subs have an easier time blending together? I'm getting the itch to get a 3rd sub, both to address a vertical null in my room and, well, for SPL :-) For now I have the vertical null addressed with an old ESW-8 sitting on a 3rd wall 2 feet off the floor, with the gain turned down a bit so it's just filling in the null without messing with the whole spectrum (REW checked). All along my plan was to replace that with a 3rd SB2000, but the new SB3000 will also fit.

So now i'm wondering if the extra SPL from the SB3000 would be worth possibly messing with the way the subs play together. And I don't know how accurate the frequency plots are on the SVS website, but the SB2000 looks to roll off more gently at the low end than the SB3000, so theoretically could give me more sub-20Hz SPL after room gain.

Thoughts?

Hi,

That's a good question! I believe that it is easier to mix sealed subs than it is to mix ported subs. Since you have REW, and can measure the frequency response, I can't see any harm in trying an SB3000. In a worst case scenario, you could always exchange it for another SB2000, if it didn't work.

The SB3000 will not only offer deeper extension than the SB2000, but the mid-bass SPL should also be much stronger. It may be nearly equivalent to dual SB2000's in the mid-bass. I think, though, that one of the issues with mismatched subs goes beyond cancellation, due to out-of-phase issues.

If one sub is much stronger than another sub, then it is difficult to level-match the subs, while still taking advantage of the extra SPL that the stronger sub offers. One solution to that might be placing the two weaker SB2000's very close together, so that they mutually-couple at every frequency. But, then you wouldn't have the benefit of engaging the additional wall and the room modes that you wanted.

I think this is one of those situations where you would just have to try an SB3000 and see how it works. Sometimes, as Ed noted in an earlier post, it is necessary to experiment with phase on one sub, even where the subs are identical. And, that might be the case here as well.

If I were going to do this, knowing that you already have REW, I would probably invest in a miniDSP HT, so that you can manipulate the frequency responses of all three subs, as needed. With that tool available to you, I would be pretty confident in your ability to make the subs work pretty well together. I assume that you should have plenty of total headroom with the addition of the third sub. And, you might want to push the low-frequencies a bit, and back-off on some mid-bass, to extract the most from all three of them.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #30902 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post

it's unfortunate that the PB3000 and/or the Bill of Rights may not be available in Canada. Hopefully this is on the "To Do" list for Gary, Ed, and company!
Since both Summit HI-FI and EFL don't sell SVS exclusively, they may not have the bill of rights displayed on their website to avoid confusion. They may be available but I'm not sure. They may even have a decent return/exchange policy of their own. A quick call or e-mail would perhaps provide the answer.

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post #30903 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Just offering a different possibility/perspective...

I’ve have had dual PB2000’s in a 18x30x8 space and found their performance very satisfying. If your use case is primarily movies, have you considered dual PB3000’s? If you have not had a great deal of experience with quality subwoofers, IMO it would be beneficial to listen to the 3000 as a baseline...they will not be disappointing/underwhelming in your space. I’m making the assumption that at least one Canadian dealer offers SVS’s Bill Of Rights policy so the 4000 and 16 are always upgrade options. Most enthusiasts find/consider experimenting with and auditioning different subs the fun and exciting part of our hobby.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
While I do like your different option[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
After doing a quick check, I could not find a single offering from a Canadian dealer on the PB3000[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]
For the Bill of Right, I have no idea if any offer-it. Since once they got a sub from SVS, they are stuck with them until they sell.
And the profit margin, must be smaller as a re-seller.
But do offer a 5% discount (at least this one http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/), for multiple purchase or buying SVS products a second time[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]



Hi Tyler

I also live in Alberta, and welcome as a poster this forum[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
For witch one to get, only you can decide. What you are comfortable to pay, from your budget.

I personally think both are good choice. And have to keep in mind, if going dual in the future.
The BP16 will end-up costing a lot more.

That said, if it was me. I would also go with a single PB16, since I have the mentality of doing once. Even if going dual in the future.


Ray
Quote:
Originally Posted by phannon View Post
Darthray:


Have you thought about ordering a subwoofer directly from SVS in the US?


I ordered an SB-2000 from SVS about 5 years ago. There were no problems with getting it shipped and the landed cost was no different.....if not cheaper!.....than trying to go from Sonicboom......I believe it was at the time. The sub arrived by Fedex I believe in about a week or 10 days or so...not bad for way out here in Newfoundland! I had a problem with a noisy amp section and after a few e-mail exchanges, they sent me a replacement amp to install and I returned the defective unit. The service was great...and from the source. I would recommend this route......unless one can no longer order directly if in Canada. You could contact them and see if this is an option......and you get to chose from all the models......


Cheers,
Phannon
Hi Phannon

My post was replying to @gene4ht trying to help @Tyler Giesbrecht.
And did like his option, but could not find a CDN retailer for a price.

To answer your question, my first sub from SVS. A PB12Plus/2 was order directly from them, around 2004.
And also do agree with you, the end cost will turn out about the same after the exchange/broker fee and shipping.
So is the Outstanding Customer Service, even when asking questions before ordering from a CDN retailer[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]

The biggest difference, from ordering from a CDN retailer. You know in advance the end price.
That said, you may not have the Bill of Right if not ordering directly from SVS.

I like to finish by saying Thank You for your post and your suggestion, and will keep-it in mind for future post as a suggestion[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
I work around many Newfoundlander, and like me learning English later in life been French.
I am sometime been ask if I am from back east, since most do not pronounce the H in the words using TH[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]


Ray


Edit for CDN future buyer, I was told a few time.
This link is a good place to save money on Broker fee;
https://www.baycitybrokers.ca/
That said, no guaranty from me. Since I never tried-it, when I do buying from the US for my next big purchase. I will report back!!!
Summit hifi near Toronto Canada is where I purchased from and does offer the SVS bill of rights. Aamir was excellent to work with when I purchased my dual PC4000 in my 12x17.5 room.

Tell him Alex from Brooklin sent you
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post #30904 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Summit hifi near Toronto Canada is where I purchased from and does offer the SVS bill of rights. Aamir was excellent to work with when I purchased my dual PC4000 in my 12x17.5 room.

Tell him Alex from Brooklin sent you
Appreciate the insight! Good to know that SVS's customer centric policies are available to Canadians...at least at select dealers.
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post #30905 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 04:16 PM
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For the conversation regarding the PC-2000 mixed with the PB-10000. I initially had the PB-1000, but felt I was lacking some umph on the bottom end. I ordered the PC-2000 a couple of weeks later with the intention of returning the PB-1000. I'm in Brampton, ON, Canada and had no problems with my return. I did have a quick opportunity to run them both using my Denon X4400H. I thought maybe I may keep and just mix, as I didn't have budget to have dual PC-2000. While it calibrated fine, during movies I could tell where most of the low-end base was coming from (PC-2000 in front left) which became really annoying. Of course my wife just said she didn't know what I was talking about it and called me nitpicky. I returned the PB-1000 with the plans of getting an additional PC-2000.

For context, I have a 12 x 16.5 ft room, with 7.5 ft height. I have riser for 2nd row seating at 11", and am running my Denon with a 7.2.2 (I have a really old sub in the front right corner as a place holder for 2nd PC-2000). Subs are at the front of the room, falls behind my motorized projector screen so the 16.5 inch depth of the PC-2000 is a snug fit.
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post #30906 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Appreciate the insight! Good to know that SVS's customer centric policies are available to Canadians...at least at select dealers.

+1
That make two of us

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Summit hifi near Toronto Canada is where I purchased from and does offer the SVS bill of rights. Aamir was excellent to work with when I purchased my dual PC4000 in my 12x17.5 room.

Tell him Alex from Brooklin sent you

Thanks for this information, very much appreciated
And also saw, many affordable multi channels power amp.


Ray
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post #30907 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 08:00 PM
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Hi all,

My PC-13 Ultra finally died. I bought it in early 2010 and it has given me 9 years of joy. It just won't turn on. The power LED never lights up.

What is my best option? Can I get a replacement amp module?

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post #30908 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by vipervick View Post
Hi all,

My PC-13 Ultra finally died. I bought it in early 2010 and it has given me 9 years of joy. It just won't turn on. The power LED never lights up.

What is my best option? Can I get a replacement amp module?
A call to SVS in the morning should confirm availability...or Ed may respond here. In any case, your options are (1) if available, a replacement amp (2) repair from a competent service center (3) a PC4000 in your near future. Good luck with these options and your decision!

Oops...one other possibility and best case scenario...an internal power supply wire may have become disconnected.
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Last edited by gene4ht; 04-14-2019 at 08:29 PM.
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post #30909 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipervick View Post
Hi all,

My PC-13 Ultra finally died. I bought it in early 2010 and it has given me 9 years of joy. It just won't turn on. The power LED never lights up.

What is my best option? Can I get a replacement amp module?
IF there is a fuse, did you check it?

PS: I'm pretty sure others on this board have had blown fuses so yours wouldn't be the first if that turns out to be the problem.
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post #30910 of 31925 Old 04-14-2019, 09:32 PM
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BTW, nice SVS demo at AXPONA.
Sane speaker prices in an era of escalating hype.
Nice.

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
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post #30911 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipervick View Post
Hi all,

My PC-13 Ultra finally died. I bought it in early 2010 and it has given me 9 years of joy. It just won't turn on. The power LED never lights up.

What is my best option? Can I get a replacement amp module?
I'd give SVS a call and price an amplifier. The new amplifier will be the newer Sledge with more power and reliability. My PC-13 just had the amplifier replaced/upgraded before I bought it because of a failure and I'm still happy with it after 2 years.
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post #30912 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 12:49 PM
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Hi All,

Looking for some advice on setting up and tuning 4 PB16 Ultras. We've had two in the front for a while now and very happy with the performance. Recently added two more in the back of the room to even out the response and ensure all seats have a good listening experience. Everything sounds excellent, though I have concerns of a huge dip from 26-40z (via REW) when all 4 subs are in use. When the pairs are run separate (only front or back pair) the dip isn't present.

Background info:
  • Room is semi dedicated 20x19 with the right side opened to the rest of the finished basement.
  • Used a Macbook with UMIK-1 Mic & Boom Mic Stand, connection to AVR via HDMI.
  • Subs are positioned in a Front Back Quarter (FBQ) configuration.
  • Each is default config (Standard Mode, 3 Ports Open, Phase 0).
  • AVR has XT32 with Sub 1 output being split and sent to the Front PB16s. Sub 2 output is sent to the back pair via SVS SoundPath Wireless Audio Adapter.
  • Front Pair volumn set to -17db and back pair set to -20db.
  • AVR level settings for front pair -8.5db and -9.5db for back.
  • Audyssey calibration was performed with a mic stand and included mic using the standard 8 positions.
  • Speaker distances were not modified after set via Audyssey. (Note: I have concerns that the Sub2 out being over 30ft to compensate for the slight delay induced from the Wireless Adapter. If I view the page the AVR complains and sets it to 28.5ft, though I do not commit the change and it remains 38.9 ft)
  • Speakers all set to small with 80HZ crossovers.
  • All REW captures with with Audyssey XT32, Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ off. AVR Bass Increase is set to Off as well.
I've attached numerous screenshots to hopefully provide some insight on what could be causing this. Any help tips would be appreciated.

Thank you
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post #30913 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Hi All,

Looking for some advice on setting up and tuning 4 PB16 Ultras. We've had two in the front for a while now and very happy with the performance. Recently added two more in the back of the room to even out the response and ensure all seats have a good listening experience. Everything sounds excellent, though I have concerns of a huge dip from 26-40z (via REW) when all 4 subs are in use. When the pairs are run separate (only front or back pair) the dip isn't present.

Background info:
  • Room is semi dedicated 20x19 with the right side opened to the rest of the finished basement.
  • Used a Macbook with UMIK-1 Mic & Boom Mic Stand, connection to AVR via HDMI.
  • Subs are positioned in a Front Back Quarter (FBQ) configuration.
  • Each is default config (Standard Mode, 3 Ports Open, Phase 0).
  • AVR has XT32 with Sub 1 output being split and sent to the Front PB16s. Sub 2 output is sent to the back pair via SVS SoundPath Wireless Audio Adapter.
  • Front Pair volumn set to -17db and back pair set to -20db.
  • AVR level settings for front pair -8.5db and -9.5db for back.
  • Audyssey calibration was performed with a mic stand and included mic using the standard 8 positions.
  • Speaker distances were not modified after set via Audyssey. (Note: I have concerns that the Sub2 out being over 30ft to compensate for the slight delay induced from the Wireless Adapter. If I view the page the AVR complains and sets it to 28.5ft, though I do not commit the change and it remains 38.9 ft)
  • Speakers all set to small with 80HZ crossovers.
  • All REW captures with with Audyssey XT32, Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ off. AVR Bass Increase is set to Off as well.
I've attached numerous screenshots to hopefully provide some insight on what could be causing this. Any help tips would be appreciated.

Thank you
Something simple like reversing the polarity on those back subs
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post #30914 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Hi All,

Looking for some advice on setting up and tuning 4 PB16 Ultras. We've had two in the front for a while now and very happy with the performance. Recently added two more in the back of the room to even out the response and ensure all seats have a good listening experience. Everything sounds excellent, though I have concerns of a huge dip from 26-40z (via REW) when all 4 subs are in use. When the pairs are run separate (only front or back pair) the dip isn't present.

Background info:
  • Room is semi dedicated 20x19 with the right side opened to the rest of the finished basement.
  • Used a Macbook with UMIK-1 Mic & Boom Mic Stand, connection to AVR via HDMI.
  • Subs are positioned in a Front Back Quarter (FBQ) configuration.
  • Each is default config (Standard Mode, 3 Ports Open, Phase 0).
  • AVR has XT32 with Sub 1 output being split and sent to the Front PB16s. Sub 2 output is sent to the back pair via SVS SoundPath Wireless Audio Adapter.
  • Front Pair volumn set to -17db and back pair set to -20db.
  • AVR level settings for front pair -8.5db and -9.5db for back.
  • Audyssey calibration was performed with a mic stand and included mic using the standard 8 positions.
  • Speaker distances were not modified after set via Audyssey. (Note: I have concerns that the Sub2 out being over 30ft to compensate for the slight delay induced from the Wireless Adapter. If I view the page the AVR complains and sets it to 28.5ft, though I do not commit the change and it remains 38.9 ft)
  • Speakers all set to small with 80HZ crossovers.
  • All REW captures with with Audyssey XT32, Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ off. AVR Bass Increase is set to Off as well.
I've attached numerous screenshots to hopefully provide some insight on what could be causing this. Any help tips would be appreciated.

Thank you
Although @mthomas47 frequently visits and posts here, I highly recommend visiting his sticky thread dedicated to subwoofer discussion, setup, and calibration. Mike himself has integrated multiple PB16’s in his own environment.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...rences-41.html
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post #30915 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjer11 View Post
Something simple like reversing the polarity on those back subs


Thanks for the tip. I'll change the two in the back and take new measurements. I presume Audyssey would have to be rerun after doing this?



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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Although @mthomas47 frequently visits and posts here, I highly recommend visiting his sticky thread dedicated to subwoofer discussion, setup, and calibration. Mike himself has integrated multiple PB16’s in his own environment.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...rences-41.html

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post #30916 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Thanks for the tip. I'll change the two in the back and take new measurements. I presume Audyssey would have to be rerun after doing this?






Nice, thank you.
No tip on the subs, but you should pull your front towers off the wall about a foot or two.
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post #30917 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Thanks for the tip. I'll change the two in the back and take new measurements. I presume Audyssey would have to be rerun after doing this?

Nice, thank you.

Hi,

The suggestion to try changing the phase on the two back subs, while measuring the response, is a good one. You could also try experimenting with the distance on the two rear subs. In both cases, I would try making the changes post-Audyssey. You can always try changing phase, pre-Audyssey, if you don't get good results doing it the way I am suggesting. Of course, Audyssey will reset the distances each time you perform a calibration.

I assume that you have already experimented with different subwoofer locations, and that those are the best ones? They look nice and symmetrical as you have them, but four corners might also work very well. Once you have the subs positioned and dialed-in correctly, four PB16's should be terrific in that room!

I notice that you are getting a lot of roll-off below 20Hz. Given the capabilities of the subwoofers, and the room size, you should be able to get a lot more low-frequency response than that, if you want it. I assume that you are either running the subwoofers in the Standard 20Hz, all ports open mode, or that you are using the Audyssey app, rather than running Audyssey straight from the AVR. If you are using the Standard mode, I recommend switching all of the subs to the one-port, Extended mode. I think it will light you up! I think you should rerun Audyssey if you change to Extended mode.

The Audyssey app induces a roll-off below 20Hz, no matter what the capabilities of your subs may be. They have just (today, I think) released a software update that lets users disable that feature. If you are using the app, I would look into that if I were you. (I just double-checked, and the update was released today. It is V1.4.0.)

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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post #30918 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,


The Audyssey app induces a roll-off below 20Hz, no matter what the capabilities of your subs may be. They have just (today, I think) released a software update that lets users disable that feature. If you are using the app, I would look into that if I were you. (I just double-checked, and the update was released today. It is V1.4.0.)

Regards,
Mike
The update appears to have just gotten rid of the 20 Hz roll off, no ability to enable/disable. However the post calibration curves in the app that show the now flat response to 20hz are just predictions and we are waiting for one of us to be able to measure with REW to confirm. Subjectively I think it is restored but needs to be verified.
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post #30919 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
No tip on the subs, but you should pull your front towers off the wall about a foot or two.
I wish that I could. At one point, I did have them out a bit further as suggested however, the kids knocked the Front Right tower over on more than one occasion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

The suggestion to try changing the phase on the two back subs, while measuring the response, is a good one. You could also try experimenting with the distance on the two rear subs. In both cases, I would try making the changes post-Audyssey. You can always try changing phase, pre-Audyssey, if you don't get good results doing it the way I am suggesting. Of course, Audyssey will reset the distances each time you perform a calibration.
RE Phase: I think this will be the first thing to try. Planning on incrementing the phases +10 for each in the back pair and doing a REW with all 4 to see the effects.

RE Distance: Not sure if the AVR will allow manual changes if the value is > 30ft even though Audyssey set it to 38.9ft during calibration. Simply going into the manual adjustment screen on the AVR displays an alert and sets the value to 28.5ft. I'll have to play around to see if this is another possibility.


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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I assume that you have already experimented with different subwoofer locations, and that those are the best ones? They look nice and symmetrical as you have them, but four corners might also work very well. Once you have the subs positioned and dialed-in correctly, four PB16's should be terrific in that room!
I didnt have too many options on locations and TBH didnt perform a sub crawl if you will. Its not shown clearly in the photo, but to the right of the Front Right speaker / sub there is a door to access underneath the stairs. This swings out 2 feet preventing the sub going any further right. The back pair could be moved into the corners however, there is no wall in the right corner (well only a bump out of 1ft.) so I'm not sure what if any affect it would have. I suppose one option is to put the left subs in the corner and leave the right subs Quarter Wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I notice that you are getting a lot of roll-off below 20Hz. Given the capabilities of the subwoofers, and the room size, you should be able to get a lot more low-frequency response than that, if you want it. I assume that you are either running the subwoofers in the Standard 20Hz, all ports open mode, or that you are using the Audyssey app, rather than running Audyssey straight from the AVR. If you are using the Standard mode, I recommend switching all of the subs to the one-port, Extended mode. I think it will light you up! I think you should rerun Audyssey if you change to Extended mode.

The Audyssey app induces a roll-off below 20Hz, no matter what the capabilities of your subs may be. They have just (today, I think) released a software update that lets users disable that feature. If you are using the app, I would look into that if I were you. (I just double-checked, and the update was released today. It is V1.4.0.)

Regards,
Mike
That is one thing I have been curious about and haven't tried yet IE Extended mode with 1 port closed. Now that you mention it, I think it will be a good experiment to do. =)

All Audyssey settings are set using the AVR as I haven't purchased the app though, it is nice to hear about the recent update and the correction is has for < 20Hz.

Thank you for all the helpful suggestions Mike!
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post #30920 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Hi All,

Looking for some advice on setting up and tuning 4 PB16 Ultras. We've had two in the front for a while now and very happy with the performance. Recently added two more in the back of the room to even out the response and ensure all seats have a good listening experience. Everything sounds excellent, though I have concerns of a huge dip from 26-40z (via REW) when all 4 subs are in use. When the pairs are run separate (only front or back pair) the dip isn't present.

Background info:
  • Room is semi dedicated 20x19 with the right side opened to the rest of the finished basement.
  • Used a Macbook with UMIK-1 Mic & Boom Mic Stand, connection to AVR via HDMI.
  • Subs are positioned in a Front Back Quarter (FBQ) configuration.
  • Each is default config (Standard Mode, 3 Ports Open, Phase 0).
  • AVR has XT32 with Sub 1 output being split and sent to the Front PB16s. Sub 2 output is sent to the back pair via SVS SoundPath Wireless Audio Adapter.
  • Front Pair volumn set to -17db and back pair set to -20db.
  • AVR level settings for front pair -8.5db and -9.5db for back.
  • Audyssey calibration was performed with a mic stand and included mic using the standard 8 positions.
  • Speaker distances were not modified after set via Audyssey. (Note: I have concerns that the Sub2 out being over 30ft to compensate for the slight delay induced from the Wireless Adapter. If I view the page the AVR complains and sets it to 28.5ft, though I do not commit the change and it remains 38.9 ft)
  • Speakers all set to small with 80HZ crossovers.
  • All REW captures with with Audyssey XT32, Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ off. AVR Bass Increase is set to Off as well.
I've attached numerous screenshots to hopefully provide some insight on what could be causing this. Any help tips would be appreciated.

Thank you

Dude, this is an insane amount of bass for that room! Holy crap! I would definitely move the front speakers out from the wall to at least get to the front of the subs. I would also reverse the polarity of the rear subs. You are basically cancelling yourself out in that configuration. That is crazy bass. Congrats and enjoy it in good health. Once you get it dialed in the house might fall down!
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post #30921 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Hi All,

Looking for some advice on setting up and tuning 4 PB16 Ultras. We've had two in the front for a while now and very happy with the performance. Recently added two more in the back of the room to even out the response and ensure all seats have a good listening experience. Everything sounds excellent, though I have concerns of a huge dip from 26-40z (via REW) when all 4 subs are in use. When the pairs are run separate (only front or back pair) the dip isn't present.

Background info:
  • Room is semi dedicated 20x19 with the right side opened to the rest of the finished basement.
  • Used a Macbook with UMIK-1 Mic & Boom Mic Stand, connection to AVR via HDMI.
  • Subs are positioned in a Front Back Quarter (FBQ) configuration.
  • Each is default config (Standard Mode, 3 Ports Open, Phase 0).
  • AVR has XT32 with Sub 1 output being split and sent to the Front PB16s. Sub 2 output is sent to the back pair via SVS SoundPath Wireless Audio Adapter.
  • Front Pair volumn set to -17db and back pair set to -20db.
  • AVR level settings for front pair -8.5db and -9.5db for back.
  • Audyssey calibration was performed with a mic stand and included mic using the standard 8 positions.
  • Speaker distances were not modified after set via Audyssey. (Note: I have concerns that the Sub2 out being over 30ft to compensate for the slight delay induced from the Wireless Adapter. If I view the page the AVR complains and sets it to 28.5ft, though I do not commit the change and it remains 38.9 ft)
  • Speakers all set to small with 80HZ crossovers.
  • All REW captures with with Audyssey XT32, Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ off. AVR Bass Increase is set to Off as well.
I've attached numerous screenshots to hopefully provide some insight on what could be causing this. Any help tips would be appreciated.

Thank you
First very nice room and system

While going through, the numerous good options to try (reversing the polarity on those back subs, or trying experimenting with the distance on the two rear subs and some more).
I did not see this other option. Since when run in pair for the front or back only, you do not see the dip. You could also try moving the two front or back subs, to be next to the other ones since it look like you have the room to do so. This should also give a boost for the subs, maybe 6 dB per pair. And this would be a nice bonus for extra headroom, not that you really need-it with those 4 monsters

Just another option, to play with. And will be in your situation in the future, hoping to be a near future


Ray
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Last edited by darthray; 04-15-2019 at 07:33 PM.
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post #30922 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
No tip on the subs, but you should pull your front towers off the wall about a foot or two.

@DT4 , just mentioning you. So you are aware of those changes, that could improve your front stage

Good catch
I was so much concentrating on the subs, I miss that one
And now going back, I would also move the Center speaker a little forward, just enough to pass the edge of the shelving by about 1/2 inch. To remove early reflections, and if some room to play with. Also to play to angle it up, for the tweeter to be closer to the main front (at the MLP).


Ray
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post #30923 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JerryIII View Post
Dude, this is an insane amount of bass for that room! Holy crap! I would definitely move the front speakers out from the wall to at least get to the front of the subs. I would also reverse the polarity of the rear subs. You are basically cancelling yourself out in that configuration. That is crazy bass. Congrats and enjoy it in good health. Once you get it dialed in the house might fall down!
Heh yeah, sometimes I just shake my head at it. Two were incredible, four just ridiculous! Really happy with the quality and performance.

I think I'll try pulling the mains out 9-12 inches again, based on yours and other members feedback. Been a while since the kids messed with the front right speaker so, hopefully they'll leave it alone.

So I actually had some time this evening and ran a few REW sweeps in various phase increments. First I took Mike's advice and placed all 4 in Extended Mode and plugged the center port. Ran a baseline REW with Audyssey Off on LFE Channel on all 4 and went from 0 to 180 degree phase in 10 degree increments. It was surprising to see how it changed. I've included a capture that shows how for each +10 degree it slowly filled in the dip shown earlier. It did improve but never completely filled as much as I had hoped.

The real surprise was when the phase went back to 0 and switched from Positive to Negative polarity and did a capture. The dip was gone and the plot was much more smooth. I was really impressed by simply changing the polarity had such an effect. Not being satisfied I left it in Negative polarity and again started to add +10 in Phase. I ran out of time but was able to capture from 0 to +90degrees phase but still in Neg Polarity. It got progressively worse as the phases increased with a huge new dip @ 40Hz. I decided for now to run at 0deg and Neg Polarity based on the much more smooth response given.

Tomorrow time permitting, I'd like to pull out the mains a bit and rerun Audyssey. Afterwards spin up a few of my goto test scenes and hear the differences.

Really appreciate all the help, suggestions and recommendations from everyone!

Thank you!
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post #30924 of 31925 Old 04-15-2019, 09:07 PM
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No tip on the subs, but you should pull your front towers off the wall about a foot or two.
agreed.
would sound way better if you could get them close to flush with those subs
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post #30925 of 31925 Old 04-16-2019, 08:44 AM
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I'd give SVS a call and price an amplifier. The new amplifier will be the newer Sledge with more power and reliability. My PC-13 just had the amplifier replaced/upgraded before I bought it because of a failure and I'm still happy with it after 2 years.
We can take care of anyone with an out-of-warranty failed BASH or Sledge amp.

Any amp purchase will carry its own 5 year warranty.

If it's a BASH amp, we include an adapter, as the Sledge male spades are 0.25" and the BASH male spades are 0.1875".
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post #30926 of 31925 Old 04-16-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Heh yeah, sometimes I just shake my head at it. Two were incredible, four just ridiculous! Really happy with the quality and performance.

I think I'll try pulling the mains out 9-12 inches again, based on yours and other members feedback. Been a while since the kids messed with the front right speaker so, hopefully they'll leave it alone.

So I actually had some time this evening and ran a few REW sweeps in various phase increments. First I took Mike's advice and placed all 4 in Extended Mode and plugged the center port. Ran a baseline REW with Audyssey Off on LFE Channel on all 4 and went from 0 to 180 degree phase in 10 degree increments. It was surprising to see how it changed. I've included a capture that shows how for each +10 degree it slowly filled in the dip shown earlier. It did improve but never completely filled as much as I had hoped.

The real surprise was when the phase went back to 0 and switched from Positive to Negative polarity and did a capture. The dip was gone and the plot was much more smooth. I was really impressed by simply changing the polarity had such an effect. Not being satisfied I left it in Negative polarity and again started to add +10 in Phase. I ran out of time but was able to capture from 0 to +90degrees phase but still in Neg Polarity. It got progressively worse as the phases increased with a huge new dip @ 40Hz. I decided for now to run at 0deg and Neg Polarity based on the much more smooth response given.

Tomorrow time permitting, I'd like to pull out the mains a bit and rerun Audyssey. Afterwards spin up a few of my goto test scenes and hear the differences.

Really appreciate all the help, suggestions and recommendations from everyone!

Thank you!
If you have REW I typically recommend using one sub-out and telling the AVR you have one subwoofer in the system (and not duals).

While I'm generally a huge fan of XT32, allowing XT32 to set the distance for sub1 and sub2 does not necessarily result in the best phasing/time alignment - as witnessed by the large post-Audyssey null you measured with REW.


If you run all four subs off one sub-out signal, then you can phase the back set of subs with the front set before you run XT32. I usually set both sets of subs to 0 phase for starters and then adjust the rears in 15 degree increments (0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 105, 120, 135, 150, 165, 180) to see which phase setting gives you the best combined FR.

Once you have the best combined FR, then run XT32. The single sub distance it sets will not 'undo' the phase relationship you established between both subs, and can also be adjusted easily to the extent it creates a null and you can re-measure until it looks optimal.

I only recommend this method for advanced REW users.
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post #30927 of 31925 Old 04-16-2019, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
If you have REW I typically recommend using one sub-out and telling the AVR you have one subwoofer in the system (and not duals).

While I'm generally a huge fan of XT32, allowing XT32 to set the distance for sub1 and sub2 does not necessarily result in the best phasing/time alignment - as witnessed by the large post-Audyssey null you measured with REW.


If you run all four subs off one sub-out signal, then you can phase the back set of subs with the front set before you run XT32. I usually set both sets of subs to 0 phase for starters and then adjust the rears in 15 degree increments (0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 105, 120, 135, 150, 165, 180) to see which phase setting gives you the best combined FR.

Once you have the best combined FR, then run XT32. The single sub distance it sets will not 'undo' the phase relationship you established between both subs, and can also be adjusted easily to the extent it creates a null and you can re-measure until it looks optimal.

I only recommend this method for advanced REW users.

Thanks for replying Ed! Just wow =). My family and I are very happy with your products and your customer support, 2nd to none.

I read your comments immediately after moving the mains out 9 inches and finishing an 8 position Audyssey Calibration. Your remarks were spot on as the Audyssey induced Null remained after the new calibration and turning Audyssey On. I'll post a capture showing Audyssey On/Off, LFE, Front Pair Positive, Rear Pair Negative.

I'm short a Y splitter and placed and order for delivery tomorrow. Once that comes in, I'll perform the steps you mentioned and post the results here.

Thank you!
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	AudOn-VS-AudOff-LFE-4Subs.jpg
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post #30928 of 31925 Old 04-16-2019, 03:43 PM
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If you have REW I typically recommend using one sub-out and telling the AVR you have one subwoofer in the system (and not duals).

While I'm generally a huge fan of XT32, allowing XT32 to set the distance for sub1 and sub2 does not necessarily result in the best phasing/time alignment - as witnessed by the large post-Audyssey null you measured with REW.


If you run all four subs off one sub-out signal, then you can phase the back set of subs with the front set before you run XT32. I usually set both sets of subs to 0 phase for starters and then adjust the rears in 15 degree increments (0, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90, 105, 120, 135, 150, 165, 180) to see which phase setting gives you the best combined FR.

Once you have the best combined FR, then run XT32. The single sub distance it sets will not 'undo' the phase relationship you established between both subs, and can also be adjusted easily to the extent it creates a null and you can re-measure until it looks optimal.

I only recommend this method for advanced REW users.

Excellent customer service! This is why my next sub (coming in 2 months) will also be an SVS. I really like this company.
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Ed has literally always responded to my emails within the same day and often in less than an hour (even on the weekends).
His help getting me setup was crucial and much appreciated . It's part of the reason I have all SVS gear...

5.2.2 | Samsung KS8500 | Sony UBP-X800 | Yamaha RX-A1060 | SVS Ultra Center | SVS Ultra Towers | SVS Ultra Bookshelves | SVS Prime Elevations | 2x PB16-Ultra | Emotiva XPA-3 Gen3 | Emotiva BasX A-300
DarkEnigma is offline  
post #30930 of 31925 Old 04-16-2019, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Big Bri</strong> <a href="/forum/post/0"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Considering changing my PB Plus/2 tune to 16 hz from 20 hz. Please see my initial post for my set-up and let me know what you think. Any thoughts/observations from current PB Plus/2 owners would be great!<br><br>
Whoever started this thread rocks!</div>
</div>
<br>
Supposed to have a flatter curve...try it, you won't lose anything in that room. Personally prefer the 20hz tune, more mid-bass pop and dynamics to my ear.
+1
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