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post #31111 of 31356 Old 05-20-2019, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DT4 View Post
Interesting... Have you tried measuring the Sub facing forward as shown and adjusting the phase? You may get the improved response while still allowing the driver to face forward.


I would also suggest (if space allows) separating the cabinet / sub / front speaker a bit. They seem very close together IMO.
Hi DT4,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I did measure in that location facing forward, did not try adjusting phase though.

That location facing forward is where the nasty was measured. I tried turning the sub facing the other wall and then the facing the table. Facing the table provided some minor improvement however, it also ruins my soundstage because the right front speaker has to be moved out to far from the Center channel.


I might buy the SVS soundpath wireless kit so i can try other locations besides near the front wall.
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post #31112 of 31356 Old 05-20-2019, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I have several observations. First, the corrected graph you see is just a visual approximation of what ARC is attempting to do. ARC doesn't have a way to actually measure its own post-calibration results. As with similar before-and-after Audyssey graphs, you need to take them with a grain of salt. You should trust what you can actually measure, and what you can actually hear. And of the two, I would always put how things sound as the highest priority. If turning the subwoofer 90 degrees gave you better mid-bass measurements, and above all, better sound, then I think that the combination of better sub positioning and ARC room correction was successful.

With respect to clearance from the front of the subwoofer, the main concern would be giving the ports enough room to breathe in and out. The grille helps with that, since it stands out away from the front of the sub. If I were you, I would move the speaker over a few more inches to allow just a little more clearance for the sub, but even a gap of about 4" or so would probably be enough.

As you concluded, there should be no practical difference in the overall quality of the bass by rotating the subwoofer to one side, and it may help the frequency response. You may lose just a bit of tactile response if the driver and ports face away from your listening position, but I suspect that the difference would be modest or imperceptible unless the subwoofer were being played at pretty high volume levels to start with. For instance, some people like the port wind sensation, but it takes some serious oomph to achieve it. Everything is a compromise. Personally, port wind has never held much appeal for me.

Regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike! Great Information.

I mentioned to DT4 I may purchase the SVS soundpath wireless kit so I can move the SVS off the front wall and try some other locations I can't reach currently.

Appreciate the input.
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post #31113 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:05 AM
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Ok i need some confirmation / more opinions

I have ordered PC-4000 and should receive it next weekend.

Problem is, i get lots of opinions that i should have gone 2 x PC-2000 to archieve better bass rather than 1 x PC 4000. ( coming from SB13)

Well the reality is that i have perfectly good curve with single SB13 (in house measured for best spot to the listening position(s). in 3200cb house without no dips. Frequancy response with ARC has no dips and one Peak at 60Hz that the position brings that i can EQ away. so there really is nothing to fill with two subwoofers right?


Why would i ever want to buy dual subwoofers if i have a spot in the house that fills the space without nulls/dipps in the low hz?


Cant see the point why im judged for buying one quality over two quantity.


Allso my next question is about what cant be seen from the curves (because they show at 72Dbb that they can bring <20Hz to the table) what is the point of upgrading from sealed to ported when in reality there is nothing to be measured ( SB13 has same type of curve measured (inhouse) as PC-4000 has (specs)


..Might be i end up blowing traces, if that happens i will let you know so someone in position of me dont spend dollars for nothing (well i got good deal and new equipment has 5years insurance) so its never nothing.

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Last edited by pau; 05-21-2019 at 06:35 AM.
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post #31114 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:08 AM
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With a little luck, you can have a good FR on MLP with just one sub.

Do you have some measurements?

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post #31115 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delija View Post
With a little luck, you can have a good FR on MLP with just one sub.

Do you have some measurements?
Sure have.

This is from Anthem ARC.

Allso have XTZ room equalizer but i have found Anthem to be good enough.
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post #31116 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by test4echo101 View Post
Thanks Mike! Great Information.

I mentioned to DT4 I may purchase the SVS soundpath wireless kit so I can move the SVS off the front wall and try some other locations I can't reach currently.

Appreciate the input.

We typically look at a few things when recommending a subwoofer for a given application:
  • room size
  • playback level
  • source material (and associated LFE content)
  • available floor space
  • lifestyle considerations like overall size, visual impact, décor integration, etc.

All of these variables are tossed into the hopper and an intelligent filter is applied to them - and out pops a good recommendation for that application.

For some customers, the SB-1000 will be the ticket because their needs/priorities play to its strengths. For other customers, the PB-1000 will be the best choice for the same reason. There is no 'best' subwoofer in an absolute sense - because 'best' is defined by that particular enthusiast's needs/priorities.

With that said - the OP owns Klipsch, which is a dynamic loudspeaker capable of high playback levels even with modest AVRs. And if a high percentage of his viewing will include action/sci-fi movies at louder playback levels (similar to what one would experience in a high-end commercial cinema), then the PB-1000 would indeed be a good choice (if he can fit it in the room), because it has considerably deeper extension and more critically 2-5X higher dynamic output in the 18-36 Hz octave (where LFE lives on theses movies) as compared to the SB-1000.
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post #31117 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:30 AM
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moved to the content.

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post #31118 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
Sure have.

This is from Anthem ARC.

Allso have XTZ room equalizer but i have found Anthem to be good enough.
Waterfall graph would give some more information, but FR looks just fine.
You are lucky

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post #31119 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delija View Post
Waterfall graph would give some more information, but FR looks just fine.
You are lucky

I dont have them saved, i did some measurements before upgrading to win10 but dont have them save. Could take some new ones when PC4000 arrives. i have around 14 days to deside to keep it or not.

what would u look in waterfall for problems? I havent ever figured anything else than basic curves to configure. I can pull the XTZ from storage, i think it had a choise for waterfall.

House is L shaped and best frequency is at The inner L . I suggest anyone trying it.

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post #31120 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
Ok i need some confirmation / more opinions

I have ordered PC-4000 and should receive it next weekend.

Problem is, i get lots of opinions that i should have gone 2 x PC-2000 to archieve better bass rather than 1 x PC 4000. ( coming from SB13)

Well the reality is that i have perfectly good curve with single SB13 (in house measured for best spot to the listening position(s). in 3200cb house without no dips. Frequancy response with ARC has no dips and one Peak at 60Hz that the position brings that i can EQ away. so there really is nothing to fill with two subwoofers right?


Why would i ever want to buy dual subwoofers if i have a spot in the house that fills the space without nulls/dipps in the low hz?


Cant see the point why im judged for buying one quality over two quantity.


Allso my next question is about what cant be seen from the curves (because they show at 72Dbb that they can bring <20Hz to the table) what is the point of upgrading from sealed to ported when in reality there is nothing to be measured ( SB13 has same type of curve measured (inhouse) as PC-4000 has (specs)


..Might be i end up blowing traces, if that happens i will let you know so someone in position of me dont spend dollars for nothing (well i got good deal and new equipment has 5years insurance) so its never nothing.

Hi,

I have several thoughts to share. First, congratulations on your new sub! I think you will enjoy the PC4000. Second, speaking for myself at least, I won't be judging you on how many subwoofers you have.

For instance, the estimable @Jim Wilson has always achieved very good results with a single subwoofer in his room, and I don't believe that anyone judges him for it. You are always going to get mixed advice on AVS regarding anything you are doing. You just have to trust your own judgment and listening preferences, and in this case, your measurements.

I sincerely doubt that you will believe that you spent money for nothing in moving to the PC4000, but as noted above, you will have to be the final judge of that. The lower bass frequencies are harder to hear, in relation to mid-bass and higher frequencies, as volume levels drop. You would be able to hear a 20Hz test tone at 72db, with no problem at all, in a relatively quiet room. Hearing sounds at that same frequency mixed-in with other sounds, however, would be very difficult if that 20Hz frequency were only playing at 72db.

The whole point in moving to a ported subwoofer was to give you more <35Hz SPL, especially for the special effects in movies. Your single PC4000 will be able to produce several times as much SPL at low-frequencies as your SB13 can. You may find that you really enjoy the low-bass sounds and tactile sensations for movies, although you may have to increase the volume of your subwoofer somewhat to take full advantage of the additional low-bass capabilities.

As with having a single subwoofer, you will be the only judge that really matters as to whether or not you do like the additional low-bass. In any event, the PC4000 will offer you several different tuning options, and some cool features, so you will be able to experiment very easily. (For instance, I think that the new top-mounted display makes it much easier to implement changes, including PEQ adjustments, post-calibration.)

One final thought involves the issue of dual subs. People often have more than one reason for adding subwoofers. Improved frequency response is one. Reduced localization, where people are more able to localize <80Hz sounds and mid and low-bass tactile sensations is another. Increasing total bass output by an average of 6db (averaged across the identical sub's passband) is a third.

I think it always helps to understand reasons why different people may choose to have multiple subwoofers. But, the biggest recommendation I would make is to just pursue the objectives that you want to pursue in your HT, and trust your own judgment and preferences.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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post #31121 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
I dont have them saved, i did some measurements before upgrading to win10 but dont have them save. Could take some new ones when PC4000 arrives. i have around 14 days to deside to keep it or not.

what would u look in waterfall for problems? I havent ever figured anything else than basic curves to configure. I can pull the XTZ from storage, i think it had a choise for waterfall.

House is L shaped and best frequency is at The inner L . I suggest anyone trying it.
Waterfall graph shows what happens in time domain.
https://www.gikacoustics.com/understanding-decay-times/
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post #31122 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
But, the biggest recommendation I would make is to just pursue the objectives that you want to pursue in your HT, and trust your own judgment and preferences.
+1

This belongs at the top of A/V’s golden rules!
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post #31123 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I have several thoughts to share. First, congratulations on your new sub! I think you will enjoy the PC4000. Second, speaking for myself at least, I won't be judging you on how many subwoofers you have.

For instance, the estimable @Jim Wilson has always achieved very good results with a single subwoofer in his room, and I don't believe that anyone judges him for it. You are always going to get mixed advice on AVS regarding anything you are doing. You just have to trust your own judgment and listening preferences, and in this case, your measurements.

I sincerely doubt that you will believe that you spent money for nothing in moving to the PC4000, but as noted above, you will have to be the final judge of that. The lower bass frequencies are harder to hear, in relation to mid-bass and higher frequencies, as volume levels drop. You would be able to hear a 20Hz test tone at 72db, with no problem at all, in a relatively quiet room. Hearing sounds at that same frequency mixed-in with other sounds, however, would be very difficult if that 20Hz frequency were only playing at 72db.

The whole point in moving to a ported subwoofer was to give you more <35Hz SPL, especially for the special effects in movies. Your single PC4000 will be able to produce several times as much SPL at low-frequencies as your SB13 can. You may find that you really enjoy the low-bass sounds and tactile sensations for movies, although you may have to increase the volume of your subwoofer somewhat to take full advantage of the additional low-bass capabilities.

As with having a single subwoofer, you will be the only judge that really matters as to whether or not you do like the additional low-bass. In any event, the PC4000 will offer you several different tuning options, and some cool features, so you will be able to experiment very easily. (For instance, I think that the new top-mounted display makes it much easier to implement changes, including PEQ adjustments, post-calibration.)

One final thought involves the issue of dual subs. People often have more than one reason for adding subwoofers. Improved frequency response is one. Reduced localization, where people are more able to localize <80Hz sounds and mid and low-bass tactile sensations is another. Increasing total bass output by an average of 6db (averaged across the identical sub's passband) is a third.

I think it always helps to understand reasons why different people may choose to have multiple subwoofers. But, the biggest recommendation I would make is to just pursue the objectives that you want to pursue in your HT, and trust your own judgment and preferences.

Regards,
Mike
So true so right. I will post once test. Live much wisdom.

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post #31124 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pau View Post
Ok i need some confirmation / more opinions

I have ordered PC-4000 and should receive it next weekend.

Problem is, i get lots of opinions that i should have gone 2 x PC-2000 to archieve better bass rather than 1 x PC 4000. ( coming from SB13)

Well the reality is that i have perfectly good curve with single SB13 (in house measured for best spot to the listening position(s). in 3200cb house without no dips. Frequancy response with ARC has no dips and one Peak at 60Hz that the position brings that i can EQ away. so there really is nothing to fill with two subwoofers right?


Why would i ever want to buy dual subwoofers if i have a spot in the house that fills the space without nulls/dipps in the low hz?


Cant see the point why im judged for buying one quality over two quantity.


Allso my next question is about what cant be seen from the curves (because they show at 72Dbb that they can bring <20Hz to the table) what is the point of upgrading from sealed to ported when in reality there is nothing to be measured ( SB13 has same type of curve measured (inhouse) as PC-4000 has (specs)


..Might be i end up blowing traces, if that happens i will let you know so someone in position of me dont spend dollars for nothing (well i got good deal and new equipment has 5years insurance) so its never nothing.
The app alone is worth getting the 4000 series.

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post #31125 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 04:56 PM
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Quick question...presently I have duel sb1000 in a 1000 cu ft room connected to a Yamaha 1080. I am thinking about upgrading to duel sb2000 or sb3000. This will be for movies only. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
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post #31126 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 05:17 PM
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Quick question...presently I have duel sb1000 in a 1000 cu ft room connected to a Yamaha 1080. I am thinking about upgrading to duel sb2000 or sb3000. This will be for movies only. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
What do you feel is lacking with the dual SB1000’s? Do these two previous posts apply?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58069206

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...l#post58069470
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post #31127 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 05:51 PM
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I'd say do the swap. If that fixes the issue I think it will be satisfying AND you won't have to wonder "what if".

IF it doesn't change you're no worse off.
UPDATE:

I got the replacement amp and swapped it today and can say the thump noise is pretty much gone!!! I am glad I went ahead for the swap. It was interesting to see that the replacement amp had much more of that white glue as compared to the amp that came with the sub. Attached is the image of replacement amp and you can see all those white glue is much more than the one it replaced. I guess there must be a reason for that just that I dont know why


Any case the replacement seems to work fine...

thanks,
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post #31128 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
Ok i need some confirmation / more opinions



I have ordered PC-4000 and should receive it next weekend.



Problem is, i get lots of opinions that i should have gone 2 x PC-2000 to archieve better bass rather than 1 x PC 4000. ( coming from SB13)



Well the reality is that i have perfectly good curve with single SB13 (in house measured for best spot to the listening position(s). in 3200cb house without no dips. Frequancy response with ARC has no dips and one Peak at 60Hz that the position brings that i can EQ away. so there really is nothing to fill with two subwoofers right?





Why would i ever want to buy dual subwoofers if i have a spot in the house that fills the space without nulls/dipps in the low hz?





Cant see the point why im judged for buying one quality over two quantity.





Allso my next question is about what cant be seen from the curves (because they show at 72Dbb that they can bring <20Hz to the table) what is the point of upgrading from sealed to ported when in reality there is nothing to be measured ( SB13 has same type of curve measured (inhouse) as PC-4000 has (specs)





..Might be i end up blowing traces, if that happens i will let you know so someone in position of me dont spend dollars for nothing (well i got good deal and new equipment has 5years insurance) so its never nothing.


Totally agree with what mike says later in the thread.

As said, going multiples can be for different reasons, and he covered that so I’ll only reiterate that a single sub can deliver a great response when taking care to make that happen. If you can do that, and have only one seat to worry about, then you’re done. But if you have multiple seats or rows to worry about, it’s worth looking at multiple subs.

As I have no experience with ARC, take that into account when I say that I would trust rew and a umik to make better measurements to compare your subs. I think you’ll find the response of the pc4000 to carry much deeper than the sb. [email protected] is not a big deal. Looking forward to your thoughts, as I think you’ll your dollars were definitely NOT for nothing.
Congratulations.
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post #31129 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 06:42 PM
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Problem is, i get lots of opinions that i should have gone 2 x PC-2000 to archieve better bass rather than 1 x PC 4000. ( coming from SB13)
The definition of opinion is "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge". I'm not saying those who provided that opinion are wrong or misinformed, only their assessment may not apply to your particular set of circumstances. One size does not fit all.


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Originally Posted by pau View Post
Well the reality is that i have perfectly good curve with single SB13 (in house measured for best spot to the listening position(s). in 3200cb house without no dips. Frequancy response with ARC has no dips and one Peak at 60Hz that the position brings that i can EQ away. so there really is nothing to fill with two subwoofers right?
In that graph you posted, was the green line actual output or was it what ARC said it was trying to achieve? Was that sample from the MLP? If it was actual and at the MLP that's about as good as it will ever get. Were it me I'd drop the new sub in the exact same spot.


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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
For instance, the estimable @Jim Wilson has always achieved very good results with a single subwoofer in his room, and I don't believe that anyone judges him for it.
Wow, estimable? I've been called a lot of things before - some of the words being only the 4 letter variety - but never estimable. Wish I had you as a character witness during my divorce!

I do indeed only use a single subwoofer but for me, and perhaps @pau as well, it provides what I want. I'm lucky in that regard because my room is only about 1800 ft^3, not square and has no dimension equal to any other. There is just one seating location to be concerned with and the place where my sub looks the best is the second best place it measures (the ideal location from a sound perspective would actually be in the way of my couch, but thankfully the difference in frequency response between the two is not at all significant).

 
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post #31130 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I have several thoughts to share. First, congratulations on your new sub! I think you will enjoy the PC4000. Second, speaking for myself at least, I won't be judging you on how many subwoofers you have.

For instance, the estimable @Jim Wilson has always achieved very good results with a single subwoofer in his room, and I don't believe that anyone judges him for it. You are always going to get mixed advice on AVS regarding anything you are doing. You just have to trust your own judgment and listening preferences, and in this case, your measurements.

I sincerely doubt that you will believe that you spent money for nothing in moving to the PC4000, but as noted above, you will have to be the final judge of that. The lower bass frequencies are harder to hear, in relation to mid-bass and higher frequencies, as volume levels drop. You would be able to hear a 20Hz test tone at 72db, with no problem at all, in a relatively quiet room. Hearing sounds at that same frequency mixed-in with other sounds, however, would be very difficult if that 20Hz frequency were only playing at 72db.

The whole point in moving to a ported subwoofer was to give you more <35Hz SPL, especially for the special effects in movies. Your single PC4000 will be able to produce several times as much SPL at low-frequencies as your SB13 can. You may find that you really enjoy the low-bass sounds and tactile sensations for movies, although you may have to increase the volume of your subwoofer somewhat to take full advantage of the additional low-bass capabilities.

As with having a single subwoofer, you will be the only judge that really matters as to whether or not you do like the additional low-bass. In any event, the PC4000 will offer you several different tuning options, and some cool features, so you will be able to experiment very easily. (For instance, I think that the new top-mounted display makes it much easier to implement changes, including PEQ adjustments, post-calibration.)

One final thought involves the issue of dual subs. People often have more than one reason for adding subwoofers. Improved frequency response is one. Reduced localization, where people are more able to localize <80Hz sounds and mid and low-bass tactile sensations is another. Increasing total bass output by an average of 6db (averaged across the identical sub's passband) is a third.

I think it always helps to understand reasons why different people may choose to have multiple subwoofers. But, the biggest recommendation I would make is to just pursue the objectives that you want to pursue in your HT, and trust your own judgment and preferences.

Regards,
Mike
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Originally Posted by abba1 View Post
Quick question...presently I have duel sb1000 in a 1000 cu ft room connected to a Yamaha 1080. I am thinking about upgrading to duel sb2000 or sb3000. This will be for movies only. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
While I am bias toward port sub/s, since you are movies only. As I am.
I would get either a PB2000 or PB3000, instead of the SB models.

The highlighted part of the first quote, explain very well the reason why.
And also suggest you read the whole quote, and also taking a look at those links;
VIII-A: Sealed Versus Ported Subwoofers:
VIII-C: Selecting Single Versus Multiple Subwoofers:
Before making your final decision

To finish, many members think they have smaller than they have.
When it come to sub/s, a sub/s see all open area to that room. Not just the listening area.
Unlike speakers that only care to reach the MLP, from there physical locations.


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Last edited by darthray; 05-21-2019 at 07:24 PM.
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post #31131 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 09:02 PM
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Looking to add a second sub. My only location that works is on a back wall which would require
A cable up the wall or across the floor. SVS wireless transmitter is an option. Wondering if you can run it with one sub hardwired
And the other wireless
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post #31132 of 31356 Old 05-21-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bonscott View Post
Looking to add a second sub. My only location that works is on a back wall which would require
A cable up the wall or across the floor. SVS wireless transmitter is an option. Wondering if you can run it with one sub hardwired
And the other wireless
I thought I had read it’s best to go one or the other... all wired or all wireless. I suppose as long as you can time align the subs, then it shouldn’t matter. I’d love to hear some sub experts weigh in on this.
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post #31133 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
Totally agree with what mike says later in the thread.

As said, going multiples can be for different reasons, and he covered that so I’ll only reiterate that a single sub can deliver a great response when taking care to make that happen. If you can do that, and have only one seat to worry about, then you’re done. But if you have multiple seats or rows to worry about, it’s worth looking at multiple subs.

As I have no experience with ARC, take that into account when I say that I would trust rew and a umik to make better measurements to compare your subs. I think you’ll find the response of the pc4000 to carry much deeper than the sb. [email protected] is not a big deal. Looking forward to your thoughts, as I think you’ll your dollars were definitely NOT for nothing.
Congratulations.
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
The definition of opinion is "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge". I'm not saying those who provided that opinion are wrong or misinformed, only their assessment may not apply to your particular set of circumstances. One size does not fit all.




In that graph you posted, was the green line actual output or was it what ARC said it was trying to achieve? Was that sample from the MLP? If it was actual and at the MLP that's about as good as it will ever get. Were it me I'd drop the new sub in the exact same spot.




Wow, estimable? I've been called a lot of things before - some of the words being only the 4 letter variety - but never estimable. Wish I had you as a character witness during my divorce!

I do indeed only use a single subwoofer but for me, and perhaps @pau as well, it provides what I want. I'm lucky in that regard because my room is only about 1800 ft^3, not square and has no dimension equal to any other. There is just one seating location to be concerned with and the place where my sub looks the best is the second best place it measures (the ideal location from a sound perspective would actually be in the way of my couch, but thankfully the difference in frequency response between the two is not at all significant).


The green target curve is not measured it is what ARC is trying to do. So the end result might be something in between the curves. REW and UMIK probably would be best way to measure the end result, but it has sounded phenomenal even just letting ARC do its magic.

Here is the 5 measurements taken from 3 seated sofa and the equalization curve that ARC is trying to correct the response with.

I have build the house with taking the subwoofer's sweetspot in consideration so there is little to none change i will move it from there without total renew of the house

When moved in and build the interior i tried to locate it to corners and other side on front but none were close the below response.
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post #31134 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 03:52 AM
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According to these 5 measurements which differ a lot in some frequencies - if you use all 3 seats on your sofa, you could (and will) benefit from dual subs configuration.

Position 1 (MLP) seems (almost) OK, but could also be a lot better.
(I'm looking at the combined measured FR + ARC EQ, of course)
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post #31135 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delija View Post
According to these 5 measurements which differ a lot in some frequencies - if you use all 3 seats on your sofa, you could (and will) benefit from dual subs configuration.

Position 1 (MLP) seems OK, but could also be better.
(I'm looking at the combined measured FR + ARC EQ, of course)

Position 1 is middle of sofa, 2+3 are close to back wall a bit higher both sides and 4+5 a little front lower both sides. Making like X in different heights.

Pulling the sofa more inwards the room from back wall would probably make the response more even.


Surely there is some variance. But the curves all follow pretty similar track except that blue anomality.

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post #31136 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 05:41 AM
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Around 30-40 Hz curves differ a lot and EQ does almost nothing, because average is flat. For MLP that's good, but other positions stay uncorrected.

Around 80-100 Hz it's even worse - measurement for position 3 makes a complete mess. For 4 other positions (including MLP) EQ adds boost instead of cut.
Even if you use 80 Hz crossover, that's still a problem.

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post #31137 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delija View Post
Around 30-40 Hz curves differ a lot and EQ does almost nothing, because average is flat. For MLP that's good, but other positions stay uncorrected.



Around 80-100 Hz it's even worse - measurement for position 3 makes a complete mess. For 4 other positions (including MLP) EQ adds boost instead of cut.

Even if you use 80 Hz crossover, that's a major problem.
Position 2 and 3 are higher than ear level and they are there to give ARC idea about the room as per Anthem's instructions not where one's ears would be. Position 1 is ear height 4 and 5 if taking the sleeping position.

But yes there is room for improvement and with the PC-4000 im gonna do measurements more thoroughly. Good finds i never gave it that much thought.

Guess 3 seater is allready pretty dig differences for one subwoofer to fill and two could come handy. In the end im more than willing to have some compromises if one can give good enough results.

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post #31138 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pau View Post
The green target curve is not measured it is what ARC is trying to do. So the end result might be something in between the curves. REW and UMIK probably would be best way to measure the end result, but it has sounded phenomenal even just letting ARC do its magic.
Based upon the graph that's pretty much what I expected you to say. The only way to know for sure would be measuring - and there is no doubt that knowledge is helpful - but it's your ears that need to be satisfied, not your eyes. Maybe you can do what some of the others suggest, buy the new sub and try it out. If you're please with the results call it a day. If the measurements or your ears are not OK with it than perhaps duals are in your future.
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post #31139 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
Based upon the graph that's pretty much what I expected you to say. The only way to know for sure would be measuring - and there is no doubt that knowledge is helpful - but it's your ears that need to be satisfied, not your eyes. Maybe you can do what some of the others suggest, buy the new sub and try it out. If you're please with the results call it a day. If the measurements or your ears are not OK with it than perhaps duals are in your future.
Allready bought and getting it next weekend. Just speculating for now what ifs and how to best integrate it.

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post #31140 of 31356 Old 05-22-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by abba1 View Post
Quick question...presently I have duel sb1000 in a 1000 cu ft room connected to a Yamaha 1080. I am thinking about upgrading to duel sb2000 or sb3000. This will be for movies only. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
I advise you to get a pair of sb3000 as that will be an upgrade from a pair of sb1000 (2000 wont be that huge upgrade but 3000 will be for sure)...if you can then just go for it. I went from two sb2000 to one sb13U a few years back and that also was quite an upgrade but added a 2nd sb13u a few months later as i couldnt live without a dual subs (once you taste dual you cant go back to single sub )...my living room is aprox. 1500 cubic feet. I had a ported sub before but i didnt like it as it exaggerated low freq too much for my taste but good pair of sealed sub is the heaven for me
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