While I agree with the advice you have been given in that you are most likely running you sub too hot, I have to ask; have you measured your response?

If you haven't, you may be sitting in a massive null (or nulls) and not even know it. If you are, you could be pouring all that power straight into a black hole.

If you walk around the room, is the bass stronger in other areas of the room away from the MLP?

It's fine to leave it in ON mode, but try turning up the sub trim in the AVR a few dB and lowering the sub's own volume to compensate. It may just need a bit more juice from the AVR.

I certain that I am as I came from 2 subs which made response much better in the primary listening position. The rear wall is close and I think causing a null where I am with only one sub. I have to get the second sub before I start on better treatments but I still think I was running the subs too high and also with my previous ones too.

This...

I ran a cable and use the trigger

Guys, I have a question about the PB4000. I want to put this in a recessed area that is a pretty tight squeeze. You can see this area in the photo below, to the right of the screen in the corner. I have about 20.75" of clearance on the width towards the top of this area, though near the bottom it is about 21 inches even. The SVS specs list the PB4000 subwoofer as being 20.5" wide. So with only a 1/4 inch to work with, and I'm wondering if the PB-4000 when it is fired up will vibrate and bump the walls, creating problems. Either way, I was planning on doing the sound isolation feet, but that probably doesn't make a difference in how much the sub enclosure shakes. The driver would stick out proud of the wall, so it fires into the room. Any thoughts on this? Is 20.75" too tight for the PB4000? Should I go with the PB3000s instead?

Hi,

That is a pretty tight tolerance, allowing for your finished wall. It may also be difficult to maneuver the subwoofer into position in such a tight space. But, if you are certain that you will actually have enough room for the subwoofer, then I don't think that the subwoofer itself vibrating will be a problem.

The subwoofers themselves are relatively inert. It is mainly the sound waves passing through the walls of the subwoofer (and particle velocity created by the movement of air) rather than direct contact with the subwoofer, that typically causes things to shake. Direct contact with a suspended wood floor can be a partial exception to that, which is why decoupling a subwoofer from the floor can help a bit. I can't guarantee that such close proximity to a wall won't also be a problem.

I think it is usually best to have at least an inch or two of clearance from a wall. I would like for you to get the more powerful subwoofer, but I think that the PB3000 would probably be a safer bet. If I were you, I would run this question by the guys at SVS, and preferably by Ed Mullen. He would be the best judge of whether the PB4000 could be a potential problem for you in such a tight space.

Good luck!

Regards,
Mike

I agree with Mike that checking in with the SVS folks isn't a bad idea, but I'd be comfortable with just sticking a couple of small pieces of padded double stick tape on the top of each side (or maybe thin adhesive weather stripping) to keep hard surfaces from colliding. Even if you didn't do that I can't imagine you'd run into much, if any, side to side movement.

+1

Just to add a little to Mike excellent post. Just make sure that location work for you, since when it come to sub/s location is everything. And would not finish your walls, until you get the sub you decide on. After having a chat, with Ed.

While Mike prefer lower frequencies from a sub/s. He also know that I prefer, mid bass. The reason I mention to leave your wall unfinish for now, since if you end-up with wall vibrations problem like I do with lower frequency setting. That are very distracting, you will have a chance to find those spots. And either you or your contractor, to fix them. By adding some drywall screws and putty those spots, before applying some paint.


Darth

Thanks guys. It seems like the PB-3000s would be the safer bet. With the PB-3000, that would leave about 1.25 inches on each side. And the PB3000 is only 82 lbs, while the 4000 is a whopping 153 lbs, which would not be easy to lift and scoot back into place, especially with a tight tolerance.

Reading the reviews, it looks like the PB3000 holds its own pretty well against the PB4000. I’m co-locating these subwoofers, stacking one on top another, mainly due to aesthetic considerations: my wife doesn’t want any big subwoofers on the floor, so I’ve figured out how to recess them. They will sit on the concrete slab, so no issues there. In the rear of the room I’m putting another sub behind a chair, probably a PC-2000, though the folks at SVS have told me I probably won’t even need that.

Regarding the rattles, that sure does have me thinking. The walls will not be painted, they are going to get fabricmate acoustic treatments between all the architectural columns. So I can wait on putting up the fabricmate wall treatments, and dial in on the rattles, but I was going to paint the ceiling soon while the paint crew is painting the rest of the house... It just isn’t practical to get them to come back after there is carpet, etc., to paint the ceiling...

As long as you have clearance for it to fit, the PB-4000 doesn't need any real clearance to the sides at all. As noted above you'll definitely want to have the drywall in place before deciding. Having said that, the PB-3000 is not a precipitous step down if you want a little more breathing room.

Question, so I get amazing tactile response from my two pb4000 but it means turning up the sub volume which also raises the non tactile frequencies which I don’t want. So basically I want to boost at 15hz but the app only goes as low as 20hz. Anyway to accomplish that or do I need something like minidsp?

Do you have the sub in extended mode with 1 port plugged and the tuning frequency changed in the amp settings to extended mode? I could be wrong but I think this makes the tuning frequency 13hz and should help with a little more output closer to that tuning frequency.

I'm assuming the subs are in their most ideal locations for best results as well?

If the app wont go that low than a mini dsp is you best bet

Yea it's in extended mode and in a good spot, at least according to my REW readings.

A good example is watching Everest, When the dark clouds roll in and lightning happens you can really feel the thunder when my subs are at -15, but then when the wind picks up -15 is too high because the non tactile bass is artificially too much to support the wind and needs to be at around -20 or so to be realistic.

My subs are on carpet with concrete underneath so I think I just need a boost at the very low end to pull off what i'm looking for.


I've never had tactile like this before so i'll give minidsp a shot.

Hi,

The miniDSP is definitely the right way to go here, but just for fun I will mention something else that you could try without a miniDSP. I can't remember what form of automated room correction you have, but several of them work in about the same way. They try to EQ your frequency response to be fairly flat and some of them, such as Audyssey, can provide control points all the way down to 10Hz.

Something you could try would be to calibrate your subs in the Standard 20Hz mode. Automated room EQ would stop setting control points where the subs roll-off by 3db. That would be right around 20Hz in Standard mode. Then, post-calibration, you could reset your subs to the Extended 16Hz mode.

In most rooms, you will get a fair amount of room gain below 20Hz, which room EQ may try to attenuate in order to achieve a flatter frequency response. But, you don't want a flatter FR. You want a low-bass house curve. Calibrating in the Standard mode, and then switching to Extended mode, post-calibration, would allow you to take more advantage of your <20Hz room gain, and should increase your <20Hz SPL.

The above technique might give you a more natural low-bass house curve than you have now, and some of what you are looking for, even without a miniDSP. Since you have REW, you would also be able to see exactly what is happening to your frequency response when you try this. Having access to a miniDSP may still be helpful to you, especially if you ever decide to play with BEQ (thread with description of BEQ linked below), but you might still enjoy trying this in the interim.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...ed-movies.html

Regards,
Mike


Edit to my previous edit : I just realized that the App was mentioned in a previous post. I've never used the Audyssey App, but you could also try telling Audyssey not to EQ below about 20Hz (or 25Hz). That way, you could calibrate in Extended mode without Audyssey attenuating your room gain as much. You might enjoy trying both methods to determine which works better. In theory, the results should be similar, but theory trips us up sometimes.

Unfortunately I have a Pioneer, so nothing I can do below 30hz Thanks for all the advice again Mike, i'll give minidsp a shot.

Have you considered tactile transducers? Sounds like you are the perfect candidate.

I love my Crowsons and they do exactly what you are looking for...but for a fraction of the cost, The BOSS can come very close to the Crowsons.

I'm assembling new equipment and I'm totaling the amount of current (amperage) for each component. I'm doing this to make sure I won't overload my circuitry. I'm asking here for the PC-2000. I know that on SVS's home page, they say this model has a 500 watt power output (1,100 watts peak). Using Ohm's law, I=P/E, 500 watts = 500/120= 4.1 amps. Is this amount a "steady-state" current draw? Or, for "average" listening levels, would the current draw be less. I know there cannot be a "definitive" answer since audio/power levels constantly change. But, what is the opinion for an approximate current draw on this model? TIA!

From info found on the internet;
"Connected to standard 120-volt service, a 15-amp circuit would allow approximately 1800 watts of power before becoming overloaded. For long-term loads, including anything that draws current for more than three hours, the maximum wattage allowed would be 20 percent lower, at 1440 watts."

Therefore, the sub by it self on this circuit will be fine. However, if you also have your AVR also on this circuit. You might starve the sub amp and/or the AVR, or trip the breaker. since the AVR also use lots of power. Monitor is not part of the equation, since they use very little power.


Darth

I currently have dual pb3000s and im toying with the idea of selling them for a pb16 ultra. My room is 21'x17x8'. Would it be a dumb idea to do it ? Id be getting the pb16 for like 2k.

Thanks for the input. The circuit I'm using is on a 20 amp service breaker. So, taking into account my other equipment, I think I should not have problems.

Hi,

I wouldn't say it's a dumb idea, but I also don't know that I would do it if I were you. I'm assuming, when I say that, that your current dual subwoofers are working well together. If they are, then you might miss having dual subs, and going back to a single sub. Most people who have had dual subs don't go back to having a single sub. Of course, if your long-term plan were to add a second PB16, then that would be different. That would definitely be an across the board upgrade.

I haven't seen measurements for the PB3000, so there is a certain amount of guesswork in this next statement. I think that you would be trading considerably more mid-bass SPL, for a slight increase in low-bass extension and volume. I believe that the single PB16 would play lower/louder than dual PB3000's below about 18Hz-20Hz or so. (Identical dual subs provide an increase of 6db, compared to the single sub, averaged across the subs' passband.)

The PB16 has even more low-bass (<35Hz) than the PB4000, and is equal to the PB4000 above 35Hz. But, dual PB4000's will exceed a single PB16 at every frequency, and especially above 35Hz. Dual PB or PC4000's would be another option you could consider, if you wanted to obtain more low-frequency SPL and TR (tactile response) without giving up the potential improvement in frequency response and bass envelopment which comes from having multiple bass sources.

Frankly, I would always lean toward having dual subwoofers. But, I also like the idea of starting with the most powerful single sub I can reasonably afford. So, if I wanted an upgrade to obtain more deep bass, I would be looking at a way to have dual PB4000's, or dual PB16's. SVS's upgrade plan can help to facilitate that, when you buy from them. That's about the most balanced advice I can give you. I hope it helps!

Regards,
Mike

Thanks for the response. Another reason I want to change is because of piano black. All my other speakers are piano black and it blows my mind that only the pb4000/16ultra can be purchased in piano black. Also the sb versions of the lower subs come in piano black but not the pb versions which is weird decision for SVS to make. I don't think going from dual pb3000s to a single pb4000 would be worth it that is why I was planning on just going with the 16ultra. It also leaves me the option of eventually going duals. Having dual 3000s I feel like I am trapped.

I also think since you using a 20 amp circuit, you should be fine (2400 watts). Since the sub and the AVR, will not be often drawing maximum power. And when doing so, it should be only brief moment in a very loud scene in a movie.


Darth

Question: is the SVS 3000 series the only sub that SVS makes that has the built-in USB port to power their Soundpath wireless transmitter? Or have they added this feature to other subs?

Subwoofer amplifiers are not continuous draw devices (unless you are playing a test tone at very high volumes - which is not recommended of course). Examples of these types of appliances would be vacuum cleaners, salon hair dryers, space heaters, air compressors, etc.

The Sledge STA-500D in the PC-2000 will draw the following power from the outlet under various conditions:

• Standby: <0.5W
• On idle: about 15W
• Low to Moderate playback: 25-75W
• Loud playback: 150-500W (only for very brief periods of maximum SPL from the subwoofer).

When looking at total power draw from your AV system, separate the continuous draw devices (like video displays) from the variable draw devices (like audio amplifier).

Also, a circuit breaker isn't current-limited per se - it's thermally limited. A breaker will pass considerably more than its rated amperage limit without tripping - provided the transient is brief. It's the steady draw devices which will overheat and trip the breaker.

That is why AV systems almost never run into problems with tripped circuit breakers. Whereas someone running a 1500W hair dryer in the bathroom with salon lighting in the mirror and an overhead heat lamp running will almost always trip the breaker.

I agree with your logic. Thanks for the input.

Hi, Ed–I had not thought about the breaker being "heat sensitive". Obviously, I was going by current/amperage ratings.

As I mentioned, I am starting to get an equipment list together for my media room. Presently, the equipment I'm using is doing an "OK" job. But, as most of us go through, my equipment is older and I'm getting "upgradeitis". I bought my subs from you ~9 years ago. They are a pair of PC12-NSD's. I would like to upgrade to something larger. So, I was looking at the PC-2000's or possibly the PC-4000's. The subs I will purchase MUST be of a cylinder form--space limitations. When I am ready, I'll call you for more info. No need to play email tag here in this forum. I see your phone # is 1.877.626.5623. If I want to talk to you directly, is this the proper # to use?

Also-just a suggestion--do you think it would be a good idea to add the current usage for your subs to your specifications listing on your page's site? I'm guessing I may not be the only one to have asked this question. Just a thought.

Just click the 'Support' widget on every website page and it will give you the option to call, email or chat. But yes - that is indeed our CS phone number.

We do list the standby power draw for our subwoofer amps - because that's the one steady-state condition the amp will experience (unless you leave it on continuously - but there is not a reason to do this). Once the amp is awake - its power draw will naturally vary greatly and will be a function of the system playback level and the source material. Sometimes the subwoofer is silent and drawing very little power - and sometimes it will be thunderous and shake the room and draw max power (but again not for very long).

Asking again... anyone know this?