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post #32881 of 33563 Old 03-30-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by badtlc View Post
This would not meet code. You can put a 20A outlet on a 15A circuit but putting a 15A outlet on a 20A circuit means there is no protection for the outlet. It could see higher than rated currents which could lead to damage and or fire.
OK, so you made me look it up :-) The key here is we're talking duplex outlets, not single outlets (like a dryer outlet). Check out the tables below. National Electrical Code, article 210.21 (B):
210.21 Outlet Devices. Outlet devices shall have an ampere rating that is not less than the load to be served and shall comply with 210.21(A) and (B).

(B) Receptacles

(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed in accordance with 430.81(B).

Exception No. 2: A receptacle installed exclusively for the use of a cord-and-plug-connected arc welder shall be permitted to have an ampere rating not less than the minimum branch-circuit conductor ampacity determined by 630.11(A) for arc welders.

(2) Total Cord-and-Plug-Connected Load. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, a receptacle shall not supply a total cord and-plug-connected load in excess of the maximum specified in Table 210.21(B)(2).

Table 210.21(B)(2) Maximum Cord-and-Plug-Connected Load to Receptacle
Click image for larger version

Name:	210-21(B)(2).png
Views:	20
Size:	6.6 KB
ID:	2703546

(3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.

Exception No. 1: Receptacles for one or more cord-andplug-connected arc welders shall be permitted to have ampere ratings not less than the minimum branch-circuit conductor ampacity permitted by 630.11(A) or (B) as applicable for arc welders.

Exception No. 2: The ampere rating of a receptacle installed for electric discharge lighting shall be permitted to be based on 410.62(C)

Table 210.21(B)(3) Receptacle Ratings for Various Size Circuits
Click image for larger version

Name:	210-21(B)(3).png
Views:	20
Size:	6.6 KB
ID:	2703548

(4) Range Receptacle Rating. The ampere rating of a range receptacle shall be permitted to be based on a single range demand load as specified in Table 220.55.


15A duplex outlets are rated for 20A total (see NEC Handbook). Also take at look at the back of a 15A GFCI outlet sometime - in the fine print it actually protects a 20A circuit. Both are built to be used with 20A circuits, even though the individual outlets are only rated for 15A. Think about it - what if you plugged in 2 devices that both drew 10A? It just makes sense that the overall outlet would be designed to handle more than a single device. This is also why they put 20A circuits in baths/kitchens/garages - they expect homeowners to plug in multiple things that draw a lot of current in these places (toaster+blender, hairdryer+curling iron, tablesaw+electric heater, etc.). And back to this topic, it's why you should probably wire your new home theater with 20A circuits!


Some other references:
https://www.neca-neis.org/code-quest...for-12-14-2005
https://forum.nachi.org/t/20-amp-wit...mp-outlets/875

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post #32882 of 33563 Old 03-30-2020, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magellan55 View Post
OK, so you made me look it up :-) The key here is we're talking duplex outlets, not single outlets (like a dryer outlet). Check out the tables below. National Electrical Code, article 210.21 (B):
210.21 Outlet Devices. Outlet devices shall have an ampere rating that is not less than the load to be served and shall comply with 210.21(A) and (B).

(B) Receptacles

(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed in accordance with 430.81(B).

Exception No. 2: A receptacle installed exclusively for the use of a cord-and-plug-connected arc welder shall be permitted to have an ampere rating not less than the minimum branch-circuit conductor ampacity determined by 630.11(A) for arc welders.

(2) Total Cord-and-Plug-Connected Load. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, a receptacle shall not supply a total cord and-plug-connected load in excess of the maximum specified in Table 210.21(B)(2).

Table 210.21(B)(2) Maximum Cord-and-Plug-Connected Load to Receptacle
Attachment 2703546

(3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50 amperes, the receptacle rating shall not be less than the branch-circuit rating.

Exception No. 1: Receptacles for one or more cord-andplug-connected arc welders shall be permitted to have ampere ratings not less than the minimum branch-circuit conductor ampacity permitted by 630.11(A) or (B) as applicable for arc welders.

Exception No. 2: The ampere rating of a receptacle installed for electric discharge lighting shall be permitted to be based on 410.62(C)

Table 210.21(B)(3) Receptacle Ratings for Various Size Circuits
Attachment 2703548

(4) Range Receptacle Rating. The ampere rating of a range receptacle shall be permitted to be based on a single range demand load as specified in Table 220.55.


15A duplex outlets are rated for 20A total (see NEC Handbook). Also take at look at the back of a 15A GFCI outlet sometime - in the fine print it actually protects a 20A circuit. Both are built to be used with 20A circuits, even though the individual outlets are only rated for 15A. Think about it - what if you plugged in 2 devices that both drew 10A? It just makes sense that the overall outlet would be designed to handle more than a single device. This is also why they put 20A circuits in baths/kitchens/garages - they expect homeowners to plug in multiple things that draw a lot of current in these places (toaster+blender, hairdryer+curling iron, tablesaw+electric heater, etc.). And back to this topic, it's why you should probably wire your new home theater with 20A circuits!


Some other references:
https://www.neca-neis.org/code-quest...for-12-14-2005
https://forum.nachi.org/t/20-amp-wit...mp-outlets/875
i guess really at the end of the day how much more is a 20a outlet compared to a 15a? if not much and you have a 20amp breaker why not just install the 20s around the room ....

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post #32883 of 33563 Old 03-30-2020, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magellan55 View Post
OK, so you made me look it up :-) The key here is we're talking duplex outlets, not single outlets (like a dryer outlet). Check out the tables below. National Electrical Code, article 210.21 (B):

I'm very well versed with the NEC as I use it every day and don't need to go back and look at the sections you posted. Your local AHJ is not guaranteed to allow that part of the code. I have seen multiple instances where the AHJ says no. In the end your AHJ is the code writer and not the NEC.
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post #32884 of 33563 Old 03-30-2020, 04:19 PM
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I pulled the trigger on an SB-2000 Pro. With my main issue of room gain seemingly centered at 35hz, do you guys recommend starting with the EQ or the room gain comp setting?
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post #32885 of 33563 Old 03-30-2020, 09:53 PM
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If I could rip the actual app out of my phone and hold it in my hand, I would throw it down a well and make it put the lotion on its skin for the many hours of frustration it has caused me. I can't believe I actually paid for it.
Haven’t laughed so hard in a while. It just hit me right I guess!!!
Put it in the basket.....
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post #32886 of 33563 Old 03-30-2020, 10:22 PM
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Settings for SVS SB-2000 Pro with Kef LS50

I have the sub coming tomorrow or Weds. and I would appreciate any advice on crossover etc.

The room is 10.5 X 15 and the ceiling is 8' peaked to 9' in the center running lengthwise. There is a 10" h stage and the sub will be going on the right side of the right speaker in the corner. That wall is covered with acoustic treatment as are the top halfs of the other three walls. The floor is double construction wood with a layer of rubber acoustic material under the carpet.

I won't have access to the sub after I hook it up as it will be behind a false wall.

The KEF LS 50's are passive.

While I have an old Polk some I am a newbie as far as operating one.

While I enjoy movies a lot my primary goal is music first.

Thanks
Emmett
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post #32887 of 33563 Old 03-31-2020, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

If I could rip the actual app out of my phone and hold it in my hand, I would throw it down a well and make it put the lotion on its skin for the many hours of frustration it has caused me. I can't believe I actually paid for it.
Haven’️t laughed so hard in a while. It just hit me right I guess!!!
Put it in the basket.....
Or else it gets the hose again....

Haaaa
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post #32888 of 33563 Old 03-31-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
Thinking about upgrading from my SB-1000 to an SB-2000 Pro while I'm still in the window. I'm completely over what Audyssey does to my speakers, but I do like what it does to my sub.

I was wondering how well the 3 band EQ of the Pro series compares to Audyssey's results? I have a huge room gain mode centered at 37hz which makes my single sub sound like a 1 note wonder with no digital magic. I have a couple smaller gains here and there as well, but nothing like that one.

What say you Pro owners (especially SB-2000) regarding your experience with the onboard APP's EQ results?
Audyssey MultEQ XT and XT32 have many filters in the subwoofer EQ file. Overall either would potentially be able to achieve an overall flatter FR than 3 manual PEQs.

With that said - not everyone uses an auto-set-up program which EQs the subwoofer channel. So in situations like that - the use of the manual PEQs comes in very handy for taming room modes and/or tailoring the subwoofer FR for personal preference.

Naturally using REW and a UMIK-1 (or similar set-up) is almost a mandate to properly build and implement PEQ filters.

Also keep in mind that implementing a heavy-cut PEQ to tame a large modal peak will only work at that listening location. In other locations of the room where the peak may not (or doesn't) exist, a heavy cut PEQ will remove a large amount of energy from the subwoofer - which could in-turn have a negative impact on the listening experience from that other location.
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post #32889 of 33563 Old 03-31-2020, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmettmaguire View Post
I have the sub coming tomorrow or Weds. and I would appreciate any advice on crossover etc.

The room is 10.5 X 15 and the ceiling is 8' peaked to 9' in the center running lengthwise. There is a 10" h stage and the sub will be going on the right side of the right speaker in the corner. That wall is covered with acoustic treatment as are the top halfs of the other three walls. The floor is double construction wood with a layer of rubber acoustic material under the carpet.

I won't have access to the sub after I hook it up as it will be behind a false wall.

The KEF LS 50's are passive.

While I have an old Polk some I am a newbie as far as operating one.

While I enjoy movies a lot my primary goal is music first.

Thanks
Emmett
Is this a dedicated 2-channel system with an integrated or preamp/amp? Or are you using an AV processor?

What are you running for upstream electronics?

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post #32890 of 33563 Old 03-31-2020, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
I pulled the trigger on an SB-2000 Pro. With my main issue of room gain seemingly centered at 35hz, do you guys recommend starting with the EQ or the room gain comp setting?
The SB-2000 is designed to take optimal advantage of room gain - so leave this menu option disabled.

This sounds more like a standing wave modal peak at 35 Hz. We can knock that out with a PEQ filter.

Do you have an in-room FR measurement of the subwoofer?

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post #32891 of 33563 Old 03-31-2020, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
The SB-2000 is designed to take optimal advantage of room gain - so leave this menu option disabled.

This sounds more like a standing wave modal peak at 35 Hz. We can knock that out with a PEQ filter.

Do you have an in-room FR measurement of the subwoofer?
OK, that makes sense. The only measurement I have is the crude before and after graph using the Audyssey App which shows a 10dbish gain centered around 35hz, and running some YouTube bass sweeps confirms it with my ears.....At this time, I'm not interested in going down the REW rabbit hole.

I also bought the wireless kit from you guys today to move the sub to a more near field location about 5 feet from the MLP and along the rear wall about 5 feet from a corner and I'm hoping that helps before any EQ is applied.

Our couch is about 15" off of the rear wall, and while I know it's not optimal, I have what I have as this is a living room set up and I have to make some compromises.

I am concerned that I'm going to run out of distance adjustment in my Denon AVR as it only allows a 20' difference between speakers and my closest surround speaker is 8' from my MLP, which only gives me 28' to set the distance, and from reading the wireless kit's manual I will need at least 25-28' just for the kit's latency...... any recommendations on how to handle this if I do get maxed out on distance? (I'm going to run a quick Audyssey 3pt calibration strictly to set delays and levels, then I'll do a full AVR reset to banish Audyssey back to where it spawned)

I really appreciate you taking the time to help........ really awesome!
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Is this a dedicated 2-channel system with an integrated or preamp/amp? Or are you using an AV processor?

What are you running for upstream electronics?
I have a Marantz SR7008 AVR that I use in 2 channel for music 2.1 with the sub. For movies is have a Polk 7.1 setup but will be using the KEF ls50's for mains.

My main source is a Bluesound Node 2i with flac. or Tidal and Amazon HD.

I do have a Pioneer VSX-95 sitting downstairs that I could use as an amp but I doubt it would be worth it. However I am the one asking the questions so feel free to correct me.

Thanks for your interest.
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post #32893 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 04:21 AM
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I'm looking to upgrade my current setup (dual PB2000s). I'm looking at the PB16 and wondering if I should just add a PB16 to run 3 subs, or sell the PB2000s and run dual PB16s. The dual PB16s are a bit more than I realistically want to spend, but I'm wondering how much of a performance difference there is running 1 PB16 + 2 PB2000s vs. 2 PB16s. Anyone know?

My room is a bit oddly shaped since there's an open stairwell, so i'd probably end up placing the subs in 3 corners of the room, there isn't a true "4th corner" because of the stairwell.
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post #32894 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by diablo900t View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my current setup (dual PB2000s). I'm looking at the PB16 and wondering if I should just add a PB16 to run 3 subs, or sell the PB2000s and run dual PB16s. The dual PB16s are a bit more than I realistically want to spend, but I'm wondering how much of a performance difference there is running 1 PB16 + 2 PB2000s vs. 2 PB16s. Anyone know?

My room is a bit oddly shaped since there's an open stairwell, so i'd probably end up placing the subs in 3 corners of the room, there isn't a true "4th corner" because of the stairwell.
Hi,

If I were you, the dual PB2000 would be sold and using only the two PB16. For the simple reason, it is a lot easier to ingrate together multiple subs that have the same response. While integrating different subs is possible to do, it is a lot more difficult to do.

Darth
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post #32895 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 06:14 AM
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^^^I agree. Sell the two PB2000 and purchase two PB16 Ultra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo900t View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my current setup (dual PB2000s). I'm looking at the PB16 and wondering if I should just add a PB16 to run 3 subs, or sell the PB2000s and run dual PB16s. The dual PB16s are a bit more than I realistically want to spend, but I'm wondering how much of a performance difference there is running 1 PB16 + 2 PB2000s vs. 2 PB16s. Anyone know?

My room is a bit oddly shaped since there's an open stairwell, so i'd probably end up placing the subs in 3 corners of the room, there isn't a true "4th corner" because of the stairwell.


If the Pb16's are more then you want to spend i would consider the PB-4000's a nice in between and they sound really close the the 16 ultra.

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post #32897 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by emmettmaguire View Post
I have a Marantz SR7008 AVR that I use in 2 channel for music 2.1 with the sub. For movies is have a Polk 7.1 setup but will be using the KEF ls50's for mains.

My main source is a Bluesound Node 2i with flac. or Tidal and Amazon HD.

I do have a Pioneer VSX-95 sitting downstairs that I could use as an amp but I doubt it would be worth it. However I am the one asking the questions so feel free to correct me.

Thanks for your interest.
Run XT32 and follow the subwoofer level match instructions at the beginning of XT32.

Save the results.

Go in under manual set-up and do the following:
  • set the fronts to small
  • set the fronts crossover to 60 Hz
  • set the subwoofer mode to LFE and the LPF/LFE to 120 Hz


Under Audio/Audyssey:
  • enable DEQ
  • disable DV

You may want to experiment with DEQ on/off for music as it will add some bottom-end heaviness to the presentation and lower master volume settings, which you may (or may not) prefer.

If you need to adjust the subwoofer level - do it under the Levels menu in manual set-up, particularly if you keep DEQ running.
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post #32898 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 06:27 AM
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If the Pb16's are more then you want to spend i would consider the PB-4000's a nice in between and they sound really close the the 16 ultra.
+1

It would also be a nice option for the OP @diablo900t been less costly, and still offer a lot.


Darth
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+1

It would also be a nice option for the OP @diablo900tbeen less costly, but still offer a lot.


Darth
Thanks all, I think this is sound advice. What's the going rate on used PB2000s these days? Mine both have about 3-4 years left on the warranty.
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post #32900 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
OK, that makes sense. The only measurement I have is the crude before and after graph using the Audyssey App which shows a 10dbish gain centered around 35hz, and running some YouTube bass sweeps confirms it with my ears.....At this time, I'm not interested in going down the REW rabbit hole.

I also bought the wireless kit from you guys today to move the sub to a more near field location about 5 feet from the MLP and along the rear wall about 5 feet from a corner and I'm hoping that helps before any EQ is applied.

Our couch is about 15" off of the rear wall, and while I know it's not optimal, I have what I have as this is a living room set up and I have to make some compromises.

I am concerned that I'm going to run out of distance adjustment in my Denon AVR as it only allows a 20' difference between speakers and my closest surround speaker is 8' from my MLP, which only gives me 28' to set the distance, and from reading the wireless kit's manual I will need at least 25-28' just for the kit's latency...... any recommendations on how to handle this if I do get maxed out on distance? (I'm going to run a quick Audyssey 3pt calibration strictly to set delays and levels, then I'll do a full AVR reset to banish Audyssey back to where it spawned)

I really appreciate you taking the time to help........ really awesome!
There is no work-around if your AVR runs out of subwoofer distance when using a wireless adapter. This is essentially a reflection of how much memory buffer it has for time-aligning all of the other channels.

Audyssey will give you the correct subwoofer distance during set-up - but then you will likely get a warning about the sub distance. This is a limitation in the Denon and not Audyssey.
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post #32901 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by diablo900t View Post
Thanks all, I think this is sound advice. What's the going rate on used PB2000s these days? Mine both have about 3-4 years left on the warranty.
Honestly, where you live has a lot to do with-it. I sold my dual PB13, at less than 40% of my original cost. That said, I live in an area where no one care about Audio.


Darth
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post #32902 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Honestly, where you live has a lot to do with-it. I sold my dual PB13, at less than 40% of my original cost. That said, I live in an area where no one care about Audio.


Darth
Hey Darth,

I'm not going to say this is for everyone but speaking of what I do know generally speaking on Selling Per-Owned A/V gear.

It's next to impossible UNLESS you are prepared to almost give it away and in some cases the buyer even wants you to deliver it for FREE !!!
(And with WARRANTY)

As you might recall recently I purchased from local Best Buy's (Magnolia Center) 4 SVS PB-4000 subs.

That means I then have 4 Mirage BPS-400 subwoofers to do something with.

I made the decision to deal with my local A/V dealer and of course installer .

So, by doing that I don't have to deal with the Public, period.
And believe me I'm glad !!!

Terry
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post #32903 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by diablo900t View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my current setup (dual PB2000s). I'm looking at the PB16 and wondering if I should just add a PB16 to run 3 subs, or sell the PB2000s and run dual PB16s. The dual PB16s are a bit more than I realistically want to spend, but I'm wondering how much of a performance difference there is running 1 PB16 + 2 PB2000s vs. 2 PB16s. Anyone know?

My room is a bit oddly shaped since there's an open stairwell, so i'd probably end up placing the subs in 3 corners of the room, there isn't a true "4th corner" because of the stairwell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Hi,

If I were you, the dual PB2000 would be sold and using only the two PB16. For the simple reason, it is a lot easier to ingrate together multiple subs that have the same response. While integrating different subs is possible to do, it is a lot more difficult to do.

Another thing to keep in mind, if using an Auto EQ system like Audyssey. The system will do it's corrections, and limit the PB16 to match the PB2000.

Darth

Hi,

I think that you have already gotten good advice to go with a pair of PB4000's, unless you have an extremely large room. Dual PB4000's will be a large upgrade at every frequency, in overall sound quality, and in user adjustability, compared to your current PB2000's. If you bought from SVS, you might see what they will give you for a trade-in. If you sell the PB2000's yourself, you might be looking at about 35-40% of their retail value. That's just a WAG, so don't hold me to it.

I also think that you got very good advice not to mix and match subs. That is especially difficult to do with ported subs. One thing that I do want to slightly correct is something that has become sort of an urban myth. And, like other urban myths, it just keeps getting repeated again and again. Sometimes, even by our friends. Audyssey, does not limit the stronger sub in a system, via its room correction software, to match a weaker sub.

There is an inherent limitation with respect to level-matching two subs with very different output capabilities, and subwoofer placement will only help with that to a certain extent. The stronger sub can play louder than the weaker one, so you lose some of the benefit of the louder sub, unless you want to unbalance your bass sound.

And, automated room correction can't fix inherently different phase and frequency responses, between different subs. So, it won't really help you with two very different subs. But auto EQ won't limit the stronger sub to match the weaker one. It will just stop EQing, at all, where the combined SPL of the two subs rolls-off by -3dB.

You lose the benefit of room correction, below that -3dB frequency, and that can also be important. But, no system of automated room correction, with which I am familiar, will limit the stronger sub with its EQ filters, to match a weaker sub. This is worth understanding and remembering to help kill that persistent urban myth.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #32904 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think that you have already gotten good advice to go with a pair of PB4000's, unless you have an extremely large room. Dual PB4000's will be a large upgrade at every frequency, in overall sound quality, and in user adjustability, compared to your current PB2000's. If you bought from SVS, you might see what they will give you for a trade-in. If you sell the PB2000's yourself, you might be looking at about 35-40% of their retail value. That's just a WAG, so don't hold me to it.

I also think that you got very good advice not to mix and match subs. That is especially difficult to do with ported subs. One thing that I do want to slightly correct is something that has become sort of an urban myth. And, like other urban myths, it just keeps getting repeated again and again. Sometimes, even by our friends. Audyssey, does not limit the stronger sub in a system, via its room correction software, to match a weaker sub.

There is an inherent limitation with respect to level-matching two subs with very different output capabilities, and subwoofer placement will only help with that to a certain extent. The stronger sub can play louder than the weaker one, so you lose some of the benefit of the louder sub, unless you want to unbalance your bass sound.

And, automated room correction can't fix inherently different phase and frequency responses, between different subs. So, it won't really help you with two very different subs. But auto EQ won't limit the stronger sub to match the weaker one. It will just stop EQing, at all, where the combined SPL of the two subs rolls-off by -3dB.

You lose the benefit of room correction, below that -3dB frequency, and that can also be important. But, no system of automated room correction, with which I am familiar, will limit the stronger sub with its EQ filters, to match a weaker sub. This is worth understanding and remembering to help kill that persistent urban myth.

Regards,
Mike
Hi mike,

Thanks for the correction, from my previous post. And will edit, to correct my mistake.


Darth
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post #32905 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
Run XT32 and follow the subwoofer level match instructions at the beginning of XT32.

Save the results.

Go in under manual set-up and do the following:
  • set the fronts to small
  • set the fronts crossover to 60 Hz
  • set the subwoofer mode to LFE and the LPF/LFE to 120 Hz


Under Audio/Audyssey:
  • enable DEQ
  • disable DV

You may want to experiment with DEQ on/off for music as it will add some bottom-end heaviness to the presentation and lower master volume settings, which you may (or may not) prefer.

If you need to adjust the subwoofer level - do it under the Levels menu in manual set-up, particularly if you keep DEQ running.
Just a quick note to Ed Mullen for his advice on setting up my SVS SB-2000 pro.

While I was on the inaugural 2002 AVS home theater cruise I haven't had the time to dedicate to the hobby. It is great to be back here and I am very appreciative of the whole group.

Thanks
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post #32906 of 33563 Old 04-01-2020, 08:06 PM
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So I finally got around to setting up REW with a USB microphone and ran some measurements. For reference I am running the following:

AVR: Denon 6500
Sub: SB4000
Mains: Kef Q350
Center: Kef Q650c

plus a pair of Q150 surround and some in-ceiling speakers for a 5.1.2 setup.

I have the subwoofer dialed in at a volume of -12, and I've left all other adjustments at default. The main speakers are set to SMALL and the crossover is at 80Hz. The LFE setting is set to LFE and LFE low pass filter is 120Hz.

I ran measurements on the main channels with the subwoofer and no Audyssey, the main channels with Audyssey, and then the center channel alone with Audyssey. All measurements had the subwoofer on. Audyssey does seem to help with the response by taming some peaks, but I have a null around 90Hz and 190Hz that are looking tough to resolve. Should I try playing with the subwoofer phase to see if that has an effect?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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post #32907 of 33563 Old 04-02-2020, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMD_Terp View Post
So I finally got around to setting up REW with a USB microphone and ran some measurements. For reference I am running the following:

AVR: Denon 6500
Sub: SB4000
Mains: Kef Q350
Center: Kef Q650c

plus a pair of Q150 surround and some in-ceiling speakers for a 5.1.2 setup.

I have the subwoofer dialed in at a volume of -12, and I've left all other adjustments at default. The main speakers are set to SMALL and the crossover is at 80Hz. The LFE setting is set to LFE and LFE low pass filter is 120Hz.

I ran measurements on the main channels with the subwoofer and no Audyssey, the main channels with Audyssey, and then the center channel alone with Audyssey. All measurements had the subwoofer on. Audyssey does seem to help with the response by taming some peaks, but I have a null around 90Hz and 190Hz that are looking tough to resolve. Should I try playing with the subwoofer phase to see if that has an effect?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Yes, definitely test various phase settings and also polarity. Also, try turning your subwoofer 90 degrees left and right and retest you will be surprised at the results. Ascetically you may frown but you might smile at the results.

Also, what helped me was changing the default setting of LFE to testing various LPF's and slopes. I found that a LPF of 130 and a slope of 24db gave me the best response in my room and fixed a lull around 120Hz.
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post #32908 of 33563 Old 04-02-2020, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Hey Darth,

I'm not going to say this is for everyone but speaking of what I do know generally speaking on Selling Per-Owned A/V gear.

It's next to impossible UNLESS you are prepared to almost give it away and in some cases the buyer even wants you to deliver it for FREE !!!
(And with WARRANTY)

As you might recall recently I purchased from local Best Buy's (Magnolia Center) 4 SVS PB-4000 subs.

That means I then have 4 Mirage BPS-400 subwoofers to do something with.

I made the decision to deal with my local A/V dealer and of course installer .

So, by doing that I don't have to deal with the Public, period.
And believe me I'm glad !!!

Terry

If what you are selling is exactly what the buyer wants then it can work out very well for both parties. I bought both of darth's PB13Ultra's because I knew exactly what these subs are capable of and the price was excellent! For me it was worth the 6 hour round trip drive and I believe for darth it worked out well, also. Due to his location the shipping costs were very prohibitive. 155 lb subs ain't cheap to ship!
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post #32909 of 33563 Old 04-02-2020, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by electronjunkie View Post
If what you are selling is exactly what the buyer wants then it can work out very well for both parties. I bought both of darth's PB13Ultra's because I knew exactly what these subs are capable of and the price was excellent! For me it was worth the 6 hour round trip drive and I believe for darth it worked out well, also. Due to his location the shipping costs were very prohibitive. 155 lb subs ain't cheap to ship!
Hi Mark,

Not to mention, on that day. The weather, was not at it's best for a winter day. And for two older fellow like You and me, it was a bit of a challenge to load them
But we got it done, and had a pleasant chat about Audio

Wishing You, and all other member. That you are staying in good health, in those hard time.


Darth

Last edited by darthray; 04-02-2020 at 02:36 PM.
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post #32910 of 33563 Old 04-02-2020, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMD_Terp View Post
So I finally got around to setting up REW with a USB microphone and ran some measurements. For reference I am running the following:

AVR: Denon 6500
Sub: SB4000
Mains: Kef Q350
Center: Kef Q650c

plus a pair of Q150 surround and some in-ceiling speakers for a 5.1.2 setup.

I have the subwoofer dialed in at a volume of -12, and I've left all other adjustments at default. The main speakers are set to SMALL and the crossover is at 80Hz. The LFE setting is set to LFE and LFE low pass filter is 120Hz.

I ran measurements on the main channels with the subwoofer and no Audyssey, the main channels with Audyssey, and then the center channel alone with Audyssey. All measurements had the subwoofer on. Audyssey does seem to help with the response by taming some peaks, but I have a null around 90Hz and 190Hz that are looking tough to resolve. Should I try playing with the subwoofer phase to see if that has an effect?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Set the fronts crossover to the highest frequency and sweep again. We need to see if that is the subwoofer or the speakers or a phase issue between them.
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