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post #33001 of 33546 Old 04-16-2020, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post
You can keep upgrading - there is no limit except obviously when you hit the top model.

Ok Ed, I have a tiny little question, or two. Where does the 20-39pc plus fit with the current generation of subwoofers. I believe the 3000 series replaced the last gen PLUS models, but curious where if at all the old dogs fit in. And also, is there any benefit, or is it even possible to retrofit a newer amp?
Thanks!
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post #33002 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
Ok Ed, I have a tiny little question, or two. Where does the 20-39pc plus fit with the current generation of subwoofers. I believe the 3000 series replaced the last gen PLUS models, but curious where if at all the old dogs fit in. And also, is there any benefit, or is it even possible to retrofit a newer amp?
Thanks!
It's a great sub and falls between the PC-2000 and PC12-Plus. The latter has the same form factor and porting as your sub - but with a more robust driver and 300W more power.
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post #33003 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Fowler View Post
Don't think you want to boost below the rolloff point guessing that would be bad news. I have a BW 48db high pass xover at 12hz with my PB16s, I'm down 1db at 13hz and 11db at 10hz. This leaves 13.5+ untouched with 117db capability at 14hz.

Do you get a bunch of natural room gain below 20hz pre XT32?
I implemented this last night. Wound up using 13hz. Thanks again. This may be common knowledge but I didn't realize that a crossover also seems to either introduce a phase change or a delay. With my subs in rear of room I get very significant sub/main cancellation that I can mostly address with sub distance tweak but it does introduce another smaller null so can't get it perfect. Nonetheless I had it optimized as best possible but when I turned on the xover the sub distance needed to be changed as the sub/main cancellation worsened. I'm liking all the tweaking one can do with the miniDSP and it sounds more balanced now using a house curve rather than a straight sub boost.
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post #33004 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 08:35 AM
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New owner of a PB 2000 Pro and would like some help with some of the feature in the app. So far, I have the app preset set to movie even though I hear no difference between any of the other presets. Ran a full auto MCACC with the receiver. LFE mode is on but I have the receiver set to 80Hz. Phase is set to 0 since the sub is sitting with the LCR (this what I've always been told to set it to). Parametric EQ and room gain compensation is set to off. Just wondering if there's a "one size fits most" kind of settings for these?
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post #33005 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 11:50 AM
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Just received my PB-1000, first home theater setup go easy on me. Slightly disappointed in it, but I'm guessing it's a settings thing.

Here's what I have:

X1400h
PB-1000
2 x q150 LR
1 x q150 C
2 x BS22 SR SL

Here's a link to my current settings after running Audyssey: http://imgur.com/gallery/6UZq6I9.

Here's the things I want to know:

- are those dbs okay? They're all minus, isn't that bad?
- is 120hz correct for LPF LFE?
- I adjusted the crossover to 80hz, correct? Audyssey had them lower
- distances are all over the place, subwoofer seems high, what could be wrong here?
- all speakers set to small, correct?
- amp assign mode - for 5.1, I can choose anything right? I just chose surround back but with no actual surround backs
- lastly, subwoofer settings, are those right? Should I use auto stand by? Volume at 12 per audyssey settings, should that go up?

One last note, I expected the sub to do a lot more. It seems sort of, small? How do I crank up the bass, I don't want house rattling, but a little movement would be fun.

Appreciate any help.
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post #33006 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Just received my PB-1000, first home theater setup go easy on me. Slightly disappointed in it, but I'm guessing it's a settings thing.

Here's what I have:

X1400h
PB-1000
2 x q150 LR
1 x q150 C
2 x BS22 SR SL

Here's a link to my current settings after running Audyssey: http://imgur.com/gallery/6UZq6I9.

Here's the things I want to know:

- are those dbs okay? They're all minus, isn't that bad?
- is 120hz correct for LPF LFE?
- I adjusted the crossover to 80hz, correct? Audyssey had them lower
- distances are all over the place, subwoofer seems high, what could be wrong here?
- all speakers set to small, correct?
- amp assign mode - for 5.1, I can choose anything right? I just chose surround back but with no actual surround backs
- lastly, subwoofer settings, are those right? Should I use auto stand by? Volume at 12 per audyssey settings, should that go up?

One last note, I expected the sub to do a lot more. It seems sort of, small? How do I crank up the bass, I don't want house rattling, but a little movement would be fun.

Appreciate any help.
Simple, crank it up. Either in your AVR and/or on the sub itself. Just keep turning it up til you're happy with it.
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post #33007 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Just received my PB-1000, first home theater setup go easy on me. Slightly disappointed in it, but I'm guessing it's a settings thing.

Here's what I have:

X1400h
PB-1000
2 x q150 LR
1 x q150 C
2 x BS22 SR SL

Here's a link to my current settings after running Audyssey: http://imgur.com/gallery/6UZq6I9.

Here's the things I want to know:

- are those dbs okay? They're all minus, isn't that bad?
- is 120hz correct for LPF LFE?
- I adjusted the crossover to 80hz, correct? Audyssey had them lower
- distances are all over the place, subwoofer seems high, what could be wrong here?
- all speakers set to small, correct?
- amp assign mode - for 5.1, I can choose anything right? I just chose surround back but with no actual surround backs
- lastly, subwoofer settings, are those right? Should I use auto stand by? Volume at 12 per audyssey settings, should that go up?

One last note, I expected the sub to do a lot more. It seems sort of, small? How do I crank up the bass, I don't want house rattling, but a little movement would be fun.

Appreciate any help.
1) All speakers being set to 'minus' is not bad at all. Audyssey sets the levels of all of the speakers to produce the same SPL at the MLP (main listening position) for any given master volume.... All totally fine.

2) Yes 120hz is standard

3) Yes. 80hz is great. You can raise the x-overs from what Audyssey found, but not lower them. If you lower them, then there will be no Audyssey correction to that speaker below the point that Audyssey set. You raised them - You are great.

4) Nothing wrong with distances. Subwoofers will always report a higher distance (really should be named delay) than the actual distance because of the DSP and/or amp inside of the subwoofer... You are great here, totally normal.

5) Yes. All speakers set to small so your subwoofer does it's job... You are great here.

6) For a 5.1 system. you need to have the Amp Assign to Zone 2.... NOT SURROUND BACK!! You are NOT good here.

7) The sub being set by Audyssey at -12db means that you have the volume control on the back of the SB-1000 set too high. -12db is the lowest that it can go, and there is no way of knowing if the sub actually needed to be set at say -15db to be correctly level matched with the rest of the speakers.... You are NOT good here.... EDIT: Maybe I misunderstood you regarding "12". If you meant 12 o'clock on the sub's volume level, and if that position got you to -3.5db per Audyssey, then you can ignore what I said.... You would fine here too, and you *might* not have to rerun the 8pt calibration, unless changing the Amp Assign mode to Zone 2 forces that.


^ You need to set the Amp Assign to Zone 2. Then you need to lower the volume on the back of the sub. Then you need to rerun the 8pt Audyssey calibration (sorry to tell you).

Before you run the full 8pt calibration. Place your mic at the MLP and do 3 tests without moving the mic.... This is only a subwoofer level spot test so you can make sure that you have lowered the volume on the back of the sub enough to get somewhere between -10db and -5db..... No louder than -5db!

Once you get your subs' volume in the -10 to -5.0 sweet spot, then you will never touch the sub's volume control again (the actual volume knob on the back of the subwoofer), and now you can do a real 8pt Audyssey calibration.
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Last edited by D Bone; 04-17-2020 at 12:47 PM.
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post #33008 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squadz View Post
- are those dbs okay? They're all minus, isn't that bad?
- is 120hz correct for LPF LFE?
- I adjusted the crossover to 80hz, correct? Audyssey had them lower
- distances are all over the place, subwoofer seems high, what could be wrong here?
- all speakers set to small, correct?
- amp assign mode - for 5.1, I can choose anything right? I just chose surround back but with no actual surround backs
- lastly, subwoofer settings, are those right? Should I use auto stand by? Volume at 12 per audyssey settings, should that go up?
I'm not an expert but I can point to some things that might be worth looking at:
1) Seems odd that every speaker is being trimmed down.I would have expected at least one speaker to be a 0dB or in the positive.
2) Seems normal
3) 80Hz is a common setting but feel free to experiment up or down to suit your tastes. You may have a null at 80Hz that isnt there if you go to 70, 90, or 100Hz
4) Distances are probably OK. Receiver uses them to set delays so that all your speakers align and sound from all speakers get to your main listening position at the same time. Reflections and such can impact the distance settings.
5) Speakers set to small is common when you have a sub. It allows your AVR to focus the power on mid/highs and get clean sound louder with your speakers and your sub amp carries the weight of the lows.
6) Not sure what this is.

7) They look ok. Use "on" when running audyssey. Otherwise you can use on or auto. If you want more bass, change that audyssey sub setting from -3.5dB to something higher like 0dB. Play with it until you find what you like.


Are you applying any equalization to the speakers?


EDIT: Dbone did a much better job with your questions than I did. I should have waited longer to respond instead of wasting bandwidth with my feeble attempt.

Front: Polk S55
Center: Polk S30
Rear: Polk S10
Sub: P̶L̶-̶2̶0̶0̶I̶I̶ | (̶2̶)̶ ̶F̶V̶X̶1̶2̶ | V1812
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Last edited by badtlc; 04-17-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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post #33009 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Just received my PB-1000, first home theater setup go easy on me. Slightly disappointed in it, but I'm guessing it's a settings thing.

Here's what I have:

X1400h
PB-1000
2 x q150 LR
1 x q150 C
2 x BS22 SR SL

Here's a link to my current settings after running Audyssey: http://imgur.com/gallery/6UZq6I9.

Here's the things I want to know:

- are those dbs okay? They're all minus, isn't that bad?
- is 120hz correct for LPF LFE?
- I adjusted the crossover to 80hz, correct? Audyssey had them lower
- distances are all over the place, subwoofer seems high, what could be wrong here?
- all speakers set to small, correct?
- amp assign mode - for 5.1, I can choose anything right? I just chose surround back but with no actual surround backs
- lastly, subwoofer settings, are those right? Should I use auto stand by? Volume at 12 per audyssey settings, should that go up?

One last note, I expected the sub to do a lot more. It seems sort of, small? How do I crank up the bass, I don't want house rattling, but a little movement would be fun.

Appreciate any help.
1) All speakers being set to 'minus' is not bad at all. Audyssey sets the levels of all of the speakers to produce the same SPL at the MLP (main listening position) for any given master volume.... All totally fine.

2) Yes 120hz is standard

3) Yes. 80hz is great. You can raise the x-overs from what Audyssey found, but not lower them. If you lower them, then there will be no Audyssey correction to that speaker below the point that Audyssey set. You raised them - You are great.

4) Nothing wrong with distances. Subwoofers will always report a higher distance (really should be named delay) than the actual distance because of the DSP and/or amp inside of the subwoofer... You are great here, totally normal.

5) Yes. All speakers set to small so your subwoofer does it's job... You are great here.

6) For a 5.1 system. you need to have the Amp Assign to Zone 2.... NOT SURROUND BACK!! You are NOT good here.

7) The sub being set by Audyssey at -12db means that you have the volume control on the back of the SB-1000 set too high. -12db is the lowest that it can go, and there is no way of knowing if the sub actually needed to be set at say -15db to be correctly level matched with the rest of the speakers.... You are NOT good here.... EDIT: Maybe I misunderstood you regarding "12". If you meant 12 o'clock on the sub's volume level, and if that position got you to -3.5db per Audyssey, then you can ignore what I said.... You would fine here too, and you *might* not have to rerun the 8pt calibration, unless changing the Amp Assign mode to Zone 2 forces that.


^ You need to set the Amp Assign to Zone 2. Then you need to lower the volume on the back of the sub. Then you need to rerun the 8pt Audyssey calibration (sorry to tell you).

Before you run the full 8pt calibration. Place your mic at the MLP and do 3 tests without moving the mic.... This is only a subwoofer level spot test so you can make sure that you have lowered the volume on the back of the sub enough to get somewhere between -10db and -5db..... No louder than -5db!

Once you get your subs' volume in the -10 to -5.0 sweet spot, then you will never touch the sub's volume control again (the actual volume knob on the back of the subwoofer), and now you can do a real 8pt Audyssey calibration.
Regarding number 7, it's in my first picture but audyssey set the subwoofer to - 3.5db, so I should leave it or get it to -5-10 like you said?

If I'm not to change that higher, how can I get the bass to be more bass-ier lol
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post #33010 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Regarding number 7, it's in my first picture but audyssey set the subwoofer to - 3.5db, so I should leave it or get it to -5-10 like you said?

If I'm not to change that higher, how can I get the bass to be more bass-ier lol
-3.5db is fine. Most of us like it set lower per Audyssey, so we can then raise it in the Denon. If you go much above -3.0 in the Denon, then you can *risk* having the signal that's output to the sub being clipped/distorted.

The bigger problem that you have is your Amp Assign setting is 100% wrong. I don't know if changing it to the only correct setting for your 5.1 system of "Zone 2" will force you to have to rerun Audyssey or not.

If after you set the Amp Assign to Zone 2 Audyssey is then grayed out or unselectable, then you'll know you have to rerun the 8pt calibration again.

As for your sub's current settings, you should be fine. If you do have to rerun the 8pt calibration again, then you could always RAISE the volume level on the sub itself by a click or two so that Audyssey sets a lower trim level like -7db.

Then after calibrating, you can always raise the sub level in the Denon to what sounds good to you... Denon > Settings > Speakers > Manual > Levels > Subwoofer.

Last edited by D Bone; 04-17-2020 at 02:22 PM.
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post #33011 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
I implemented this last night. Wound up using 13hz. Thanks again. This may be common knowledge but I didn't realize that a crossover also seems to either introduce a phase change or a delay. With my subs in rear of room I get very significant sub/main cancellation that I can mostly address with sub distance tweak but it does introduce another smaller null so can't get it perfect. Nonetheless I had it optimized as best possible but when I turned on the xover the sub distance needed to be changed as the sub/main cancellation worsened. I'm liking all the tweaking one can do with the miniDSP and it sounds more balanced now using a house curve rather than a straight sub boost.
Wow did not know about the delay, my subs are in front corners and it didn't occur to me that adding that crossover could have an impact like that. Now I have to run more tests.

Glad to hear things are sounding better.

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post #33012 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Just received my PB-1000, first home theater setup go easy on me. Slightly disappointed in it, but I'm guessing it's a settings thing.

Here's what I have:

X1400h
PB-1000
2 x q150 LR
1 x q150 C
2 x BS22 SR SL

Here's a link to my current settings after running Audyssey: http://imgur.com/gallery/6UZq6I9.

Here's the things I want to know:

- are those dbs okay? They're all minus, isn't that bad? yes all are fine.
- is 120hz correct for LPF LFE? yes
- I adjusted the crossover to 80hz, correct? yes and make sure its that for all speakers. Audyssey had them lower
- distances are all over the place, subwoofer seems high, what could be wrong here? dont change it. keep it where Audyssey set them at. these are delay settings and dont have to match the actual location of your speakers.
- all speakers set to small, correct? yed
- amp assign mode - for 5.1, I can choose anything right? I just chose surround back but with no actual surround backs not sure
- lastly, subwoofer settings, are those right? Should I use auto stand by? if u want no harm. i keeo mine auto all the time Volume at 12 per audyssey settings, should that go up? as long as ur not at -12 or +12 in audyssey for the sub channel then u are okay. best to be between -6 to +6

One last note, I expected the sub to do a lot more. It seems sort of, small? How do I crank up the bass, I don't want house rattling, but a little movement would be fun.

give it a few days and get used to it. then u can always increase the level in the sub channel (trim) and see what u like.

Appreciate any help.
comments above. hope they help a littlr.

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post #33013 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Regarding number 7, it's in my first picture but audyssey set the subwoofer to - 3.5db, so I should leave it or get it to -5-10 like you said?

If I'm not to change that higher, how can I get the bass to be more bass-ier lol
-3.5db is fine. Most of us like it set lower per Audyssey, so we can then raise it in the Denon. If you go much above -3.0 in the Denon, then you can *risk* having the signal that's output to the sub being clipped/distorted.

The bigger problem that you have is your Amp Assign setting is 100% wrong. I don't know if changing it to the only correct setting for your 5.1 system of "Zone 2" will force you to have to rerun Audyssey or not.

If after you set the Amp Assign to Zone 2 Audyssey is then grayed out or unselectable, then you'll know you have to rerun the 8pt calibration again.

As for your sub's current settings, you should be fine. If you do have to rerun the 8pt calibration again, then you could always RAISE the volume level on the sub itself by a click or two so that Audyssey sets a lower trim level like -7db.

Then after calibrating, you can always raise the sub level in the Denon to what sounds good to you... Denon > Settings > Speakers > Manual > Levels > Subwoofer.
Okay, redid it all. Had to recalibrate a few times as I had the sub volume at 2pm, then 1pm now its like between 12/1 position and I got a -5.0db from audyssey.

So now, do I edit that value directly in manual setup to go up for higher bass or in the audio subwoofer level section?

Out of curiosity, how high is too high? Can I set to -1.0db? 0db? (or if it's the other section, do I put +4.0db?)

Confused here now.
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post #33014 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 03:51 PM
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Okay, redid it all. Had to recalibrate a few times as I had the sub volume at 2pm, then 1pm now its like between 12/1 position and I got a -5.0db from audyssey.

So now, do I edit that value directly in manual setup to go up for higher bass or in the audio subwoofer level section?

Out of curiosity, how high is too high? Can I set to -1.0db? 0db? (or if it's the other section, do I put +4.0db?)

Confused here now.
Good job! Yes, you can raise or lower the sub, or any other speaker for that matter, in the Denon's speaker level adjustment settings (leave the volume on the sub itself alone... you are done touching it).

If this is your 1st time hearing Audyssey, it is not uncommon for you to "wonder where all of your bass went", as you were used to large room gains at certain bass frequencies and once those are removed by Audyssey, it sounds less impactfull to you. Give yourself more than a few days to get used to flatter, tighter bass.

^ That being said, you can raise the subwoofer level to your liking, and as long as you stay at 0db or lower in the Denon, then you have little risk of sending out a clipped LFE/Bass signal to your sub..... Most of us try to avoid settings higher than 0db, but if you go into the +s, you won't damage anything......

..... but if you hear obvious sounds of distress coming from your sub on loud, bass heavy scenes, then lower the subwoofer level trim or the master volume until it's gone.

I highly encourage you to visit the Audyssey thread for an absolutely great Audyssey FAQ section and take some serious time reading all of the FAQ questions and answers before diving into the thread to ask for help. See it here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...i.html#HEADERA
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post #33015 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Okay, redid it all. Had to recalibrate a few times as I had the sub volume at 2pm, then 1pm now its like between 12/1 position and I got a -5.0db from audyssey.

So now, do I edit that value directly in manual setup to go up for higher bass or in the audio subwoofer level section?

Out of curiosity, how high is too high? Can I set to -1.0db? 0db? (or if it's the other section, do I put +4.0db?)

Confused here now.

Hi,

I have debated whether to step into this conversation or to just let it go. But, I think that I should respond. I believe that people don't always realize how many other people may be silently reading along on these threads, many of whom are guests and unable to post questions of their own. For that reason, I believe that it's a good idea to have a single set of fairly simple best-practice principles that get repeated consistently. And, that's why the Guide, linked in my signature, was created.

The Audyssey FAQ was the gold standard at one time, but that time passed a number of years ago, and the FAQ hasn't been updated since then.

Here is the general best-practice advice I would recommend. Individuals can always vary from this advice if they are certain about the performance characteristics of their specific subs. But, the nice thing about best-practice principles is that they should never do any harm.

As a general rule, it is best to keep AVR sub trim levels well in the negative range. A final target of about -5 is a good number to shoot for.

For that reason, it is recommended that Audyssey (Denon/Marantz) owners try to get AVR trim levels of about -11, but not -12 during the calibration process. YPAO (Yamaha) owners would try to get trim levels of about -9, but not -10. The subwoofer gain level would be set, during calibration, at a level which would allow those readings.

Then, post-calibration, owners could add several decibels of sub boost with the AVR remote, up to about -5. Additional boosts above about -5 in trim level, would be made with the subwoofer gain rather than the AVR remote. And, unless you are specifically measuring your frequency response, you are just adding bass to your personal taste, so it won't hurt anything to add boost with the subwoofer gain control.

Keeping the trim level well in negative numbers will help to insure that you don't clip the subwoofer signal. Clipping is a form of distortion, and not something that you want. It would normally only occur at higher volume levels, and with significant lower bass content. But again, that's the important thing about trying to establish best-practice principles. You aren't just responding to the specific circumstances of a specific individual, you are also writing for people with different subwoofer models, and different AVR's, who may be silently reading along--today, or weeks from now.

A number of those basic principles are contained in the Guide, along with much additional information. The Guide does make specific references to some sections in the Audyssey FAQ that are still helpful. But, a lot of the information in the FAQ is now outdated, or inaccurate, as the FAQ author has long since abandoned it.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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Okay, redid it all. Had to recalibrate a few times as I had the sub volume at 2pm, then 1pm now its like between 12/1 position and I got a -5.0db from audyssey.

So now, do I edit that value directly in manual setup to go up for higher bass or in the audio subwoofer level section?

Out of curiosity, how high is too high? Can I set to -1.0db? 0db? (or if it's the other section, do I put +4.0db?)

Confused here now.

Hi,

I have debated whether to step into this conversation or to just let it go. But, I think that I should respond. I believe that people don't always realize how many other people may be silently reading along on these threads, many of whom are guests and unable to post questions of their own. For that reason, I believe that it's a good idea to have a single set of fairly simple best-practice principles that get repeated consistently. And, that's why the Guide, linked in my signature, was created.

The Audyssey FAQ was the gold standard at one time, but that time passed a number of years ago, and the FAQ hasn't been updated since then.

Here is the general best-practice advice I would recommend. Individuals can always vary from this advice if they are certain about the performance characteristics of their specific subs. But, the nice thing about best-practice principles is that they should never do any harm.

As a general rule, it is best to keep AVR sub trim levels well in the negative range. A final target of about -5 is a good number to shoot for.

For that reason, it is recommended that Audyssey (Denon/Marantz) owners try to get AVR trim levels of about -11, but not -12 during the calibration process. YPAO (Yamaha) owners would try to get trim levels of about -9, but not -10. The subwoofer gain level would be set, during calibration, at a level which would allow those readings.

Then, post-calibration, owners could add several decibels of sub boost with the AVR remote, up to about -5. Additional boosts above about -5 in trim level, would be made with the subwoofer gain rather than the AVR remote. And, unless you are specifically measuring your frequency response, you are just adding bass to your personal taste, so it won't hurt anything to add boost with the subwoofer gain control.

Keeping the trim level well in negative numbers will help to insure that you don't clip the subwoofer signal. Clipping is a form of distortion, and not something that you want. It would normally only occur at higher volume levels, and with significant lower bass content. But again, that's the important thing about trying to establish best-practice principles. You aren't just responding to the specific circumstances of a specific individual, you are also writing for people with different subwoofer models, and different AVR's, who may be silently reading along--today, or weeks from now.

A number of those basic principles are contained in the Guide, along with much additional information. The Guide does make specific references to some sections in the Audyssey FAQ that are still helpful. But, a lot of the information in the FAQ is now outdated, or inaccurate, as the FAQ author has long since abandoned it.

Regards,
Mike
Eerily enough, I was just read that guide, so thank you for posting here. I plan on redoing the calibration per the guide.

One question, this paragraph: Then, post-calibration, owners could add several decibels of sub boost with the AVR remote, up to about -5. Additional boosts above about -5 in trim level, would be made with the subwoofer gain rather than the AVR remote. And, unless you are specifically measuring your frequency response, you are just adding bass to your personal taste, so it won't hurt anything to add boost with the subwoofer gain control.

I'm confused what you mean. Where is the AVR remote gain found and where is the subwoofer gain found? Are you speaking about how there's a menu setting in audio>subwoofer level to boost subwoofer and how there is one in audyssey manual setup which would be AVR?

So basically get to -11/11.5 in audyssey, then adjust to -5 in manual then use subwoofer level to add +dB if I want more?
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Eerily enough, I was just read that guide, so thank you for posting here. I plan on redoing the calibration per the guide.

One question, this paragraph: Then, post-calibration, owners could add several decibels of sub boost with the AVR remote, up to about -5. Additional boosts above about -5 in trim level, would be made with the subwoofer gain rather than the AVR remote. And, unless you are specifically measuring your frequency response, you are just adding bass to your personal taste, so it won't hurt anything to add boost with the subwoofer gain control.

I'm confused what you mean. Where is the AVR remote gain found and where is the subwoofer gain found? Are you speaking about how there's a menu setting in audio>subwoofer level to boost subwoofer and how there is one in audyssey manual setup which would be AVR?

So basically get to -11/11.5 in audyssey, then adjust to -5 in manual then use subwoofer level to add +dB if I want more?

You are very welcome! I'm glad if the Guide is helpful to you.

There are some terms that are specific to audio/HT, just as there are in everything. The subwoofer "trim" level in your AVR is controlled by your Denon remote. Anywhere you increase the subwoofer volume in your Denon, the voltage increase will be coming from the sub out in your Denon.

I personally prefer to use the Audio menu in my Marantz to make sub trim changes, because I can do it while listening to the effect. (Speaker trim levels can be adjusted in the Speaker test tone area.) The subwoofer "gain" control is labelled "Volume", and it is on the subwoofer amplifier, on the back of your PB1000.

What I am encouraging you to do is to use your subwoofer amplifier to make subwoofer increases that go above about -5 in AVR trim level. Where the voltage comes from can make a difference in the total max volume levels that some subs can attain, and it can make a difference in the clipping that can occur even short of max volume levels.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 04-17-2020 at 05:13 PM.
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post #33018 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 05:06 PM
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Eerily enough, I was just read that guide, so thank you for posting here. I plan on redoing the calibration per the guide.

One question, this paragraph: Then, post-calibration, owners could add several decibels of sub boost with the AVR remote, up to about -5. Additional boosts above about -5 in trim level, would be made with the subwoofer gain rather than the AVR remote. And, unless you are specifically measuring your frequency response, you are just adding bass to your personal taste, so it won't hurt anything to add boost with the subwoofer gain control.

I'm confused what you mean. Where is the AVR remote gain found and where is the subwoofer gain found? Are you speaking about how there's a menu setting in audio>subwoofer level to boost subwoofer and how there is one in audyssey manual setup which would be AVR?

So basically get to -11/11.5 in audyssey, then adjust to -5 in manual then use subwoofer level to add +dB if I want more?

You are very welcome! I'm glad if the Guide is helpful to you. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

There are some terms that are specific to audio/HT, just as there are in everything. The subwoofer "trim" level in your AVR is controlled by your Denon remote. Anywhere you increase the volume in your Denon, the voltage increase will be coming from the sub out in your Denon. The subwoofer "gain" control is labelled "Volume", and it is on the subwoofer amplifier, on the back of your PB1000.

What I am encouraging you to do is to use your subwoofer amplifier to make subwoofer increases that go above about -5 in AVR trim level. Where the voltage comes from can make a difference in the total max volume levels that some subs can attain, and it can make a difference in the clipping that can occur even short of max volume levels.

Regards,
Mike
I think I understand, maybe it's just my confusion because my Denon receiver has two areas to adjust the subwoofer. The first is the settings>speakers>manual setup where you can change the settings from audyssey (so I can change from -11.5 to -5 here) but also there's another menu setting for subwoofer level where you can +- dB. (settings>audio>subwoofer level)

Which would be the right area to adjust after you're done with the subwoofer gain physical knob? (side question, what about for the other speakers? Do I adjust them in manual setup or is there another speaker level area)

Hopefully I've explained correctly my confusion lol
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Originally Posted by squadz View Post
I think I understand, maybe it's just my confusion because my Denon receiver has two areas to adjust the subwoofer. The first is the settings>speakers>manual setup where you can change the settings from audyssey (so I can change from -11.5 to -5 here) but also there's another menu setting for subwoofer level where you can +- dB. (settings>audio>subwoofer level)

Which would be the right area to adjust after you're done with the subwoofer gain physical knob? (side question, what about for the other speakers? Do I adjust them in manual setup or is there another speaker level area)

Hopefully I've explained correctly my confusion lol
Settings > Speakers > Manual > Levels

They are kind of redundant ways to get to the same place, but I prefer the above.
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@squadz
How big is the room, and what is it’s construction? While most of us bump the sub trim after Audyssey, if you’re on concrete and/or in a very large room, the pb1000 might not be able to do the job you want. Sorry if I missed the info, if it was shared.
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@squadz
How big is the room, and what is it’️s construction? While most of us bump the sub trim after Audyssey, if you’️re on concrete and/or in a very large room, the pb1000 might not be able to do the job you want. Sorry if I missed the info, if it was shared.
Room is big, but I consider this part of the room that I'm in boxed at the surrounds so it's roughly 12x14ish? That range.

Basement, so concrete, but dricore then vinyl planks on top.

I got my sub to -11 after fiddling with the knob on the back of it, then went to manual setup and selected -5. It sounds good now, might be enough. Not sure what to change to go further even if I wanted to. I guess just go to -3 or something.

I also changed center speaker up 1db. Seems to help voices a bit. I'm very happy so far, just want a bit more bass.
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Room is big, but I consider this part of the room that I'm in boxed at the surrounds so it's roughly 12x14ish? That range.

Basement, so concrete, but dricore then vinyl planks on top.

I got my sub to -11 after fiddling with the knob on the back of it, then went to manual setup and selected -5. It sounds good now, might be enough. Not sure what to change to go further even if I wanted to. I guess just go to -3 or something.

I also changed center speaker up 1db. Seems to help voices a bit. I'm very happy so far, just want a bit more bass.

Sounds like you’re on the right track. You do know the pb1k is a gateway sub? Lol
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post #33023 of 33546 Old 04-17-2020, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squadz View Post
Room is big, but I consider this part of the room that I'm in boxed at the surrounds so it's roughly 12x14ish? That range.

Basement, so concrete, but dricore then vinyl planks on top.

I got my sub to -11 after fiddling with the knob on the back of it, then went to manual setup and selected -5. It sounds good now, might be enough. Not sure what to change to go further even if I wanted to. I guess just go to -3 or something.

I also changed center speaker up 1db. Seems to help voices a bit. I'm very happy so far, just want a bit more bass.

Sounds like you’️re on the right track. You do know the pb1k is a gateway sub? Lol
Heh I know, but this sub is still great and perfect for my uses.

I just need to learn how to push it one step further from -5. If I understood Mike's post correctly, I think he means I would go back to the subwoofer knob on the back to up it now, but that seems against what I've read.
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Heh I know, but this sub is still great and perfect for my uses.

I just need to learn how to push it one step further from -5. If I understood Mike's post correctly, I think he means I would go back to the subwoofer knob on the back to up it now, but that seems against what I've read.

I would go into the speaker settings as D bone said and adjust the trim there. I always find mikes advice very useful and excellent. I didn’t see where he said use the subs knob, unless he meant because audyssey was against its limit.
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post #33025 of 33546 Old 04-18-2020, 04:55 AM
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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

I hope this is the right thread..

Any Prime Pinnacle owners here? I’m a Definitive Technology fan and have owned quite a few of their speakers. I’m looking to get some new speakers and the Pinnacles are very intriguing. I just bought a new home and have moved in and the BP8080 Super Towers are just too big for my living room (says the new wife). So, those are on the buy/sell and I’m currently using Studio Monitor 45’s on stands with a CLR2002 center and a HSU VTF-15 sub. I’m currently just running L/C/R and sub with no surrounds. I’m hoping to add those later.

My main level is all open (living room, breakfast area, and kitchen) and is around 16.7’ x 42’ with a 9’ flat ceiling. So roughly 700 ft.² (6300 cubic ft).

I’ve narrowed it down (I think lol) to the Prime Pinnacles with a Prime Center ($1,950) or the Definitive Technology BP9040 towers and CS9060 center ($1,947 on sale - $2,797 Retail). I’d like to stay stay under $2,000 with L/C/R.

Why should I go the SVS route over the DT’s? Also, if I go DT I may add the Atmos Modules which would give “somewhat” of an overhead effect for now since I have no surrounds.

I just moved in so I’m still figuring out the layout and don’t have much furniture, decor, or curtains yet so..

Thank you for input or advice!





Denon X4300H * Def Tech BP8080st front L/R * Def Tech CLR2002 center * Def Tech ProMonitor 800 surrounds (x4) * Hsu VTF-3 MK5 HP sub * Outlaw OAW4 wireless sub kit * Vizio 60" 4K HDRtv * Sony UBP-X800 Bluray * PS4 * AC Infinity S9 AVR fan

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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.

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I would go into the speaker settings as D bone said and adjust the trim there. I always find mikes advice very useful and excellent. I didn’t see where he said use the subs knob, unless he meant because audyssey was against its limit.

Mike can come and clarify but as far as I read it, DO NOT increase trims above -5 in the AVR but use the volume (gain) on the sub itself to boost sub level if desired.

Edit: I can see potential confusion in Mike’s post where he prefers to adjust “to taste” in the AV processor but I believe he is far enough negative so the net stays below -5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

I personally prefer to use the Audio menu in my Marantz to make sub trim changes, because I can do it while listening to the effect. (Speaker trim levels can be adjusted in the Speaker test tone area.) The subwoofer "gain" control is labelled "Volume", and it is on the subwoofer amplifier, on the back of your PB1000.

What I am encouraging you to do is to use your subwoofer amplifier to make subwoofer increases that go above about -5 in AVR trim level. Where the voltage comes from can make a difference in the total max volume levels that some subs can attain, and it can make a difference in the clipping that can occur even short of max volume levels.

Regards,
Mike
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I just got a sb 2000 pro sub, but when I go to running the setup on my pioneer vsx-lx503 it says no sub, anyone knows what could be the problem?

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post #33028 of 33546 Old 04-18-2020, 06:00 AM
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Heh I know, but this sub is still great and perfect for my uses.

I just need to learn how to push it one step further from -5. If I understood Mike's post correctly, I think he means I would go back to the subwoofer knob on the back to up it now, but that seems against what I've read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyrythm1k View Post
I would go into the speaker settings as D bone said and adjust the trim there. I always find mikes advice very useful and excellent. I didn’t see where he said use the subs knob, unless he meant because audyssey was against its limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post
Mike can come and clarify but as far as I read it, DO NOT increase trims above -5 in the AVR but use the volume (gain) on the sub itself to boost sub level if desired.

Edit: I can see potential confusion in Mike’s post where he prefers to adjust “to taste” in the AV processor but I believe he is far enough negative so the net stays below -5.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, guys!

My second post on this was primarily intended to clarify some terms for @squadz and to indicate that the gain control on the subwoofer itself is labelled "Volume". But, the Guide, and my original post to him, are very clear and unambiguous. This is what I wrote:

"Then, post-calibration, owners could add several decibels of sub boost with the AVR remote, up to about -5. Additional boosts above about -5 in trim level, would be made with the subwoofer gain rather than the AVR remote. And, unless you are specifically measuring your frequency response, you are just adding bass to your personal taste, so it won't hurt anything to add boost with the subwoofer gain control."

The "measuring" part of that statement was simply for the people who want to know exactly how much bass SPL they have added, and how that affects their overall frequency response or house curve.

There is always going to be conflicting advice on subjects like this. That's why the Guide was started, and that's why I posted last night. I wanted to state what I believe to be the best way for most of us to use our sub gains and our trim levels. This method will do no harm, and it may really help in some cases, including for the OP.

Think of the process this way. When you try to get to about -11 in trim level, during calibration, you are already using your subwoofer amplifier to the maximum extent that you can. If you turn your gain up any higher, you may exceed the Denon/Marantz trim levels of -12, and you will have no idea what your subwoofer settings should really be. Are they just -12, or would they really be -14 or -16, or even higher, if the trim levels went that low?

Then from that initial setting of about -11, you can add trim with your AVR remote, and you are still mostly using the subwoofer amplifier, because you deliberately turned the subwoofer gain, up above where Audyssey wanted you to, during the calibration process. But, once you hit about -5 in trim, that is about as far as you should usually go in order to stay with the best-practice method that I am recommending. If you still want more bass from that -5 trim setting, and many people do, you just go back to using the subwoofer gain control again to get it.

This way, you are using the gain control during the Audyssey calibration, and if you need to, you are using it again after the Audyssey calibration. Section II-C of the Guide uses the analogy of depositing subwoofer amplifier power in the bank, when you get to an AVR trim setting of about -11.

But after calibration, as you increase your AVR trim up to about -5, you have used up that initial bank deposit of subwoofer amplifier power, and now you need to make another deposit of sub amplifier voltage with your gain control. Perhaps, repeating that analogy here will help to make the process of using the subwoofer amplifier easier to understand.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

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Roger that mike!
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post #33030 of 33546 Old 04-18-2020, 09:32 AM
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I just now saw the email from SVS about the Ultra-series amp upgrade:

https://www.svsound.com/products/svs...er-upgrade-kit

This must be a new(er) development? Wonder what you all think, or if anybody has done this?
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