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post #20821 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettmr View Post
After reading all the great reviews here I also just purchased the Dual PB-2000's - just got them today and had a little play - waiting on some upgrades to arrive for my other speakers but man these things rock, totally amazing!!! The guys at SVS have said they will walk me through the complete step of my SVS subs and the new speakers, receiver and amp to make sure I have it all configured correctly - amazing customer service. I couldn't use their speakers in my upgrade as I'm stuck with in-walls but they have a customer for life


Just one question, any way to turn off the power LED - that blue light while watching the screen is horrible, I thought I read it could be turned off but didn't see a switch. That or I guess I get some black tape to stick over it?


I thought I was in the crapper when they arrived today as the boxes are BIG but once unpacked they fit in nicely - oh and did I mention how amazing they sound


Let us know what you think. Even though I have large towers, I found that setting them to small with a 60hz crossover really let the PB-2000s shine.

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post #20822 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Whacked! View Post
There is a delay between being able to turn on the amp after shutdown. Not sure how long that delay is anymore but if you switch it off then back on, it will appear dead. It should only be about 5 mins iirc but could be a little longer.
Thanks for Your reply.

I don't think it's normal, also because it never did this delay.
But something about it could be the culprit:
I noticed that these days the PB13 with the "defective amp"
turns ON with a delay of 3-4s than the other PB13...
obviously when it's able to turn ON .

Any other ideas?
What could I check in my Bash amp?

Thanks in advance

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post #20823 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Simo81 View Post
Any other ideas?

Here's an idea: Contact SVS for help. They have truly awesome support.

Go to their web page and click the "Chat Now" button on the right side of the screen for live, free help.

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post #20824 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
The XV15se definitely has more max output capability. However, if you did a 100 dB sine wave sweep to check the FR of both subs in room, the PC/PB2000 would have a good 5 dB advantage between 16-25 Hz. Once both subs reach their output limits, the XV would keep getting louder. But @ 15 below reference, the SVS has less roll off below 25 Hz. Room gain will have the same effect on both subs. The shallower roll-off will hit harder up until the point that the PC2000 hits its limiter.
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My guess is that, unless you are listening at high levels, the PC2000 will sound just as good, and might even seem to have a bit more impact at moderate volume on movies. I say this because I think the XV15se rolls off a little bit more below 25 Hz. So at 15 below reference, the PC2000 will hit just as hard or harder. At higher levels, especially on music, the PC2000 won't have as much output.
So these two quotes of yours got my hopes up, because one thing I wasn't loving about the PSA XV15se (other than its looks) was its performance with subtle bass or listening at moderate volumes. After hooking it up today, I really have to agree with you, or at least that's what my ears say. When turned up to reference level, the XV15se does shake the house a little more and digs deeper and harder (which is expected), but it's not by as big of a margin as I was expecting. However, at level lower than reference, I really think the PC-2000 sounds better. I've gone back and forth several times, and it's a much bigger difference than I was expecting. I think it even sounds better at reference if it's not a big earth shaking bass scene.

One thing I missed when I pulled out my little Martin Logan 10" Dynamo and replaced it with the PSA was the sort of smooth and seamless filling bass when the volume wasn't cranked all the way up. It really blended so well with my Def Techs. I figured that was a sealed sub thing and I was going to just have to give that up for big bass. Well, the PC-2000 handles the low volumes even better than the Dynamo, which I wasn't expecting, and I'm surprised at how much better it sounds than the PSA almost all of the time.

I set them up the same. They are in the same spot, with the same cross over settings in my Denon, and I've recalibrated in-between every time I switch, and the SVS sub just sounds better to me. Even when it's cranked, and the PSA beats the SVS on output, the SVS still blends in better. I'm not an audiophile so I don't know exactly why, but in my family room with my setup, I vastly prefer it. I am super happy right now! I'm only a few hours into my 45 day trial, and I don't see this thing going back. Funny... bigger isn't always better, and I'm guessing that every sub behaves different in every room.

Best of all, it passes the WAF!
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post #20825 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 03:52 PM
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New SVS PB 2000 owner two weeks ago. In fact I upgraded all my speakers at the same time I love the sub, but the WAF wasn't all that great, so I thought I'd try a pair of SB2000's in hopes they'd have the same sound but integrate into the aesthetics of the room better. Unfortunately they just didn't have that low end grunt that I love from the PB2000, so I'm having to send them back.

That said, since my room is 17'dx22'W with a vaulted ceiling and opening into a kitchen, I'm left wondering if I'd be better served with the PB12+ or if I'd even notice any difference for the $600 upgrade.

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post #20826 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
New SVS PB 2000 owner two weeks ago. In fact I upgraded all my speakers at the same time I love the sub, but the WAF wasn't all that great, so I thought I'd try a pair of SB2000's in hopes they'd have the same sound but integrate into the aesthetics of the room better. Unfortunately they just didn't have that low end grunt that I love from the PB2000, so I'm having to send them back.

That said, since my room is 17'dx22'W with a vaulted ceiling and opening into a kitchen, I'm left wondering if I'd be better served with the PB12+ or if I'd even notice any difference for the $600 upgrade.
Stick with 2 PB-2000s.

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post #20827 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
Stick with 2 PB-2000s.
I can't get away with 2 of those monsters. I elected for 2 SB2000's as a comparison because they were much smaller, however for the aforementioned reasons, they just didn't do it. So it's either 1 PB2000 or 1 PB12+.

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post #20828 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
I can't get away with 2 of those monsters. I elected for 2 SB2000's as a comparison because they were much smaller, however for the aforementioned reasons, they just didn't do it. So it's either 1 PB2000 or 1 PB12+.
If those 2 are only option 1 PB2000 or 1 PB12+ , get PB12-Plus.
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post #20829 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
I can't get away with 2 of those monsters. I elected for 2 SB2000's as a comparison because they were much smaller, however for the aforementioned reasons, they just didn't do it. So it's either 1 PB2000 or 1 PB12+.
It's unfortunate the PB-2000 couldn't transcend the WAF...it's an excellent performer as you've experienced. Since the PB12+ is even larger, you may want to consider a different form factor...PC-2000 perhaps...should perform similar to the PB-2000.
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post #20830 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 07:06 PM
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I did look at the PC 2000, however in my room, it would stand out more than than the PB does and although she wasn't excited to see the PB2k, she's accepted it as long it's what I wanted. It also helped that I moved it to the side of the entertainment center so that it wasn't the first thing you see when you walk in the front room and that also helped shield it's massive size. That said, I figured if the PB12+ is only 1" taller, 2 inches wider and 3 inches deeper and was worth the cost, I could probably get it accepted.

I'm just wondering if it's worth the cost? Will I notice a distinct difference?

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post #20831 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
I did look at the PC 2000, however in my room, it would stand out more than than the PB does and although she wasn't excited to see the PB2k, she's accepted it as long it's what I wanted. It also helped that I moved it to the side of the entertainment center so that it wasn't the first thing you see when you walk in the front room and that also helped shield it's massive size. That said, I figured if the PB12+ is only 1" taller, 2 inches wider and 3 inches deeper and was worth the cost, I could probably get it accepted.

I'm just wondering if it's worth the cost? Will I notice a distinct difference?
If you are going to stay with one sub get the best you can. Differents is there it is simply just more and better sub. Better woofer, much better amp all futures almost like Ultra.
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post #20832 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 07:26 PM
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I'm just wondering if it's worth the cost? Will I notice a distinct difference?
As Retro said, the PB12+ is a very good sub as well, sounds very similar, and has a bit more output around port tune. However, only your ears and wallet will determine if it's worth the addition cost. The good news has always been that SVS will allow you to audition at no cost.
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post #20833 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 08:06 PM
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Thanks for the input guys. I'll mull it over for the next few days.

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post #20834 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 09:59 PM
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While we are on the PB2000 subject. I need some input. I am still in the return period of my second PC12-NSD. After doing testing they are certainly better than 1 + my Klipsch. But I had always imagined I'd eventually get a PC-2000. That changed once I saw it and they ditched the top port and cloth exterior.

Well my question pertains to exactly how the PB2000 sound differs from the PC12-NSD. I had gone back to old posts and there was this one guy, that said he went from 2 NSDs and 2 2000s and he felt he finally got the punch and effect without the muddiness he always desired. It's because of this single post, which is having me doubt sticking with the NSDs even though I love the way both of them look, and for the most part happy with the sound. There are some points in some soundtracks, where I can tell the bass does not perfectly blend in with the rest of the music. And it sound just a tad bit muffly at times. Would 2 PB2000s not have this problem?

About the only thing I get when I call SVS about the 2000 series over the NSD series is "40% increase". Some help and advice here please, on the NSD vs. the 2000. First hand experiences would be a huge help right now.

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post #20835 of 31621 Old 04-01-2015, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
While we are on the PB2000 subject. I need some input. I am still in the return period of my second PC12-NSD. After doing testing they are certainly better than 1 + my Klipsch. But I had always imagined I'd eventually get a PC-2000. That changed once I saw it and they ditched the top port and cloth exterior.

Well my question pertains to exactly how the PB2000 sound differs from the PC12-NSD. I had gone back to old posts and there was this one guy, that said he went from 2 NSDs and 2 2000s and he felt he finally got the punch and effect without the muddiness he always desired. It's because of this single post, which is having me doubt sticking with the NSDs even though I love the way both of them look, and for the most part happy with the sound. There are some points in some soundtracks, where I can tell the bass does not perfectly blend in with the rest of the music. And it sound just a tad bit muffly at times. Would 2 PB2000s not have this problem?

About the only thing I get when I call SVS about the 2000 series over the NSD series is "40% increase". Some help and advice here please, on the NSD vs. the 2000. First hand experiences would be a huge help right now.
Once you have a decent quality sub or subs, what you hear in your room is more your room and placement than it is the sub. In other words, If you have two PB12-NSD's, or two PB2000's, or two PB12 Plus, and all playing within their capability without distortion or compression...they will all sound more similar than different. And if you had them set up and eq'd to the same response in room, you won't be able to tell the difference. Until you hit their output limits...then the sub that can go louder will pull ahead. That is why output, such a the "40% increase" is weighted so heavily with subs. None of them sound drastically difference once you have pretty good subs....it all comes down to clean output capability and extension.

What you are hearing is your in room frequency response. Change it if you want to change the sound. In my experience, the PB2000 has a noticeable increase in output and extension compared to the PB12-NSD. The PB12-NSD has pretty good output at 20 Hz, but mediocre to low output above 30 Hz.
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post #20836 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bear123 View Post
Once you have a decent quality sub or subs, what you hear in your room is more your room and placement than it is the sub. In other words, If you have two PB12-NSD's, or two PB2000's, or two PB12 Plus, and all playing within their capability without distortion or compression...they will all sound more similar than different. And if you had them set up and eq'd to the same response in room, you won't be able to tell the difference. Until you hit their output limits...then the sub that can go louder will pull ahead. That is why output, such a the "40% increase" is weighted so heavily with subs. None of them sound drastically difference once you have pretty good subs....it all comes down to clean output capability and extension.

What you are hearing is your in room frequency response. Change it if you want to change the sound. In my experience, the PB2000 has a noticeable increase in output and extension compared to the PB12-NSD. The PB12-NSD has pretty good output at 20 Hz, but mediocre to low output above 30 Hz.
I use to think that all subs that were played within there limits all sounded the same. One example is i compared the PC2000 to the PB12+ there was a total night and day difference. The PB12+ absolutely beat the PC-2000 hands down on output,sound quality,bass note texture and just better all around sound quality. And if all subs sounded the same played within there limits we should go buy some Polk Audio Subwoofers and just not crank them up and save some money lol. All very good subwoofers i have heard all have a different sound and they should as they use different drivers and amplifiers. Just my 2 cents.
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post #20837 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 06:13 AM
 
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"If you have two PB12-NSD's, or two PB2000's, or two PB12 Plus, and all playing within their capability without distortion or compression...they will all sound more similar than different."

Complete and utter nonsense.
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post #20838 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
While we are on the PB2000 subject. I need some input...

...he felt he finally got the punch and effect without the muddiness

There are some points in some soundtracks, where I can tell the bass does not perfectly blend in with the rest of the music. And it sound just a tad bit muffly at times. Would 2 PB2000s not have this problem?

First hand experiences would be a huge help right now.
I have not heard the PB-12NSD's nor have I ever set up two unmatched subs. As the owner of dual PB-2000's, I can definitively say that I've never encountered the muddiness or muffly sounds you've described. Nor have I experienced any "blending" issues (set up issues perhaps?). For some perspective, my listening habits are 80/20 movies to music on a 5.2.2 system. And I typically listen at -20 to -10 and have never had a want/need/desire to listen beyond reference in my 4800cf room.

Lastly, take advantage of manufacturers offering free auditions...SVS has always been a leader in this area. Let your own ears tell you if PB-2000's or another sub will resolve your issues...only sure way to know.

Hope this helps with your decision...

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post #20839 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
While we are on the PB2000 subject. I need some input. I am still in the return period of my second PC12-NSD. After doing testing they are certainly better than 1 + my Klipsch. But I had always imagined I'd eventually get a PC-2000. That changed once I saw it and they ditched the top port and cloth exterior.

Well my question pertains to exactly how the PB2000 sound differs from the PC12-NSD. I had gone back to old posts and there was this one guy, that said he went from 2 NSDs and 2 2000s and he felt he finally got the punch and effect without the muddiness he always desired. It's because of this single post, which is having me doubt sticking with the NSDs even though I love the way both of them look, and for the most part happy with the sound. There are some points in some soundtracks, where I can tell the bass does not perfectly blend in with the rest of the music. And it sound just a tad bit muffly at times. Would 2 PB2000s not have this problem?

About the only thing I get when I call SVS about the 2000 series over the NSD series is "40% increase". Some help and advice here please, on the NSD vs. the 2000. First hand experiences would be a huge help right now.
My guess is that guy was near or exceeding the limits of the pb12-nsd, and now he has more clean output a capability so of course it is hitting harder.

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"If you have two PB12-NSD's, or two PB2000's, or two PB12 Plus, and all playing within their capability without distortion or compression...they will all sound more similar than different."

Complete and utter nonsense.

You think so? I thought this statement was generally accepted across the AVS subwoofer community. I've followed commercial, ID, and DIY and this seems to be the one thing most agree on lol.

Maybe it needs to be worded differently: Assuming the same FR and EQ, you won't tell much difference between two quality subs until you exceed the clean output capability of the inferior one.

That is typically how I see it stated.
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post #20840 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 12:24 PM
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I don't think I need much more impact in this small room. Even if it is a bit opened up the main area is 12x11. I am as most people here will play the what if game. But I didn't want to put SVS through the ordeal of shipping 2 2000s back two ways for free just for me to try it. My problem was I had my heart set on 2000s but the look of the cylinders ruined that dream for me. So it's either 2 NSDs are I guess just going back to the 1 NSD and the Klipsch.

Upstairs - Sony 75x940e: soundbar - Klipsch R-20B
Basement - BenQ HT3050: screen - Elite 125" motorized ATS: speakers - RF-7IIx2, RC-64II, RS-41IIx2, RS-42IIx2, AVR Denon x4000 -- subs PC-12NSD + RW12D
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post #20841 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 12:25 PM
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I picked up a SB12-NSD from the specials page on the SVS website to go with my klipsch rb-61 ii's. All I can say is I'm in love. Amazing cosmic powers in an itty bitty living space.
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post #20842 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 12:35 PM
 
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"You think so? I thought this statement was generally accepted across the AVS subwoofer community."

You get a few loons here, so I don't pay too much attention.

I had PC Plus 20-39 and PC Ultra 13 and the difference was noticeable even in a small room.
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post #20843 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
I don't think I need much more impact in this small room. Even if it is a bit opened up the main area is 12x11. I am as most people here will play the what if game. But I didn't want to put SVS through the ordeal of shipping 2 2000s back two ways for free just for me to try it. My problem was I had my heart set on 2000s but the look of the cylinders ruined that dream for me. So it's either 2 NSDs are I guess just going back to the 1 NSD and the Klipsch.
I love the look of the new PC2000. IMO its way sexier than the old style plus new engineered driver and a little more go go juice in the amp.

Sony 75X900E 4K
Marantz SR7011 Parasound Halo A52+
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post #20844 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
"You think so? I thought this statement was generally accepted across the AVS subwoofer community."

You get a few loons here, so I don't pay too much attention.

I had PC Plus 20-39 and PC Ultra 13 and the difference was noticeable even in a small room.
Different amp (the PC Ultra 13's sledge amp is quite a bit better than the bash amp found on the old +20-39, especially the DSP), smoother frequency response, different box (47" tall vs 39" tall).

All these aspects make a difference.

The statement does hold its weight though. If you take two different low distortion drivers, put them both in the same box, and don't press either anywhere close to their limits using the same amp it will sound the same. It isn't until you really stress them that a difference happens.

Last edited by STL D; 04-02-2015 at 02:56 PM.
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post #20845 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by STL D View Post
Different amp (the PC Ultra 13's sledge amp is quite a bit better than the bash amp found on the old +20-39, especially the DSP), smoother frequency response, different box (47" tall vs 39" tall).

All these aspects make a difference.

The statement does hold its weight though. If you take two different low distortion drivers, put them both in the same box, and don't press either anywhere close to their limits using the same amp it will sound the same. It isn't until you really stress them that a difference happens.
In other words, I could be pushing my NSD's if I'm hearing some uncleaniness in the sound. My AVR sets them at -10db and I don't adjust them upward but I listen to movies at -7.5 db.

Upstairs - Sony 75x940e: soundbar - Klipsch R-20B
Basement - BenQ HT3050: screen - Elite 125" motorized ATS: speakers - RF-7IIx2, RC-64II, RS-41IIx2, RS-42IIx2, AVR Denon x4000 -- subs PC-12NSD + RW12D
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post #20846 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 03:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STL D View Post
Different amp (the PC Ultra 13's sledge amp is quite a bit better than the bash amp found on the old +20-39, especially the DSP), smoother frequency response, different box (47" tall vs 39" tall).

All these aspects make a difference.

The statement does hold its weight though. If you take two different low distortion drivers, put them both in the same box, and don't press either anywhere close to their limits using the same amp it will sound the same. It isn't until you really stress them that a difference happens.
Both were BASH models. Anyway I'd rather not continue as it's like talking to a brick wall.

"The statement does hold its weight though"

Only to those who are delusional.

"will sound the same"

LOL
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post #20847 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 03:29 PM
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Both were BASH models. Anyway I'd rather not continue as it's like talking to a brick wall.

"The statement does hold its weight though"

Only to those who are delusional.

"will sound the same"

LOL
It's been shown at more than a few gatherings at this point. Blind listening tests are the only way to really prove how a sub sounds to you, as your own bias of which you want to be better will make you believe one sounds better than the other.

But, I digress, this is a conversation that belongs in a different thread.
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post #20848 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 03:42 PM
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But I didn't want to put SVS through the ordeal of shipping 2 2000s back two ways for free just for me to try it.
You can bet that this cost is built into the SVS business model. And SVS is betting you won't ship them back.

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203
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post #20849 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 03:55 PM
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SVS wouldn't be around today if they didn't factor all of the costs for all of the goodness we get.
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post #20850 of 31621 Old 04-02-2015, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
"You think so? I thought this statement was generally accepted across the AVS subwoofer community."

You get a few loons here, so I don't pay too much attention.

I had PC Plus 20-39 and PC Ultra 13 and the difference was noticeable even in a small room.
Of course it sounded different....your in room frequency response was different. If those two subs were eq'd flat in your room and played at a moderate level, you would not hear a difference..unless you knew which one you were listening too, and allow your ears to fool yourself. But, you don't have the capability to measure or match your in room frequency response, so they sound different. I keep agreeing with you on this point, but you have always been unable to grasp this point.
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