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post #26881 of 31237 Old 12-17-2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
Hey JKR,

I only went into the 2 channel room where the SB 4000 was for about a minute. They were playing some classical music, which to say the least, is not my thing at all haha

Sadly I cant speak to how it sounded. I'm more interested in home theater use, so I stayed in the prime 5.1 satellite room mostly.

The live Police demo they did with the PB 4000 sounded good though, so the PB can do music as well

Batman,


Thanks for the response.....I will likely go for two SB 4000's at some point to replace my current Paradigm Servo 15 and Velodyne 5000 sub.
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post #26882 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Batman61405 View Post
Funny though, the thing that really impressed me tonight was the 5.1 prime satellite package with a SB 1000 sub. It sounded really good for what they are and the price. I was honestly blown away. If it sounded good in the store, I'm sure it will sound even better in an actual room. However, Id ditch the SB1000 in a heartbeat. Get the Pb 1000 instead. Unless you seriously cant fit the PB1000, go with the PB. The SB didn't sound bad, but I've heard the PB 1000 as well and I know it would take a Prime satellite package to even greater heights with its deeper bass capabilities. I thoroughly enjoyed the 5.1 prime demo. Id say I liked it even more than the PB4000 since I guess I knew wut I was getting with the 4000.


A lot of people hate the Prime satellites here, given that it has almost no weight below 100hz. When I first got into SVS, the Prime satellites were my first speakers from them after ditching my KEF Q series speakers. The 5.1 package was surprisingly good but more importantly, when I switched out the single SB1000 for dual SB2000s it gave me jaw-drop syndromes for several weeks as I was going through a multitude of content.

Small satellites that gives an all around 6.5" bookshelfs experience? Definitely wasn't something I expected considering I had the Q300s prior to the Prime satellites.

SVS Ultra Bookshelf + SVS Ultra Center
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Yamaha RX-A3060 + Parasound Halo A31 + Emotiva A500
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post #26883 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by vartex View Post
Has anyone tried using a ported sub in a 1400 cb ft room?

I've got just over 1300 cu ft in my room. I not only have tried but am currently running three ported SVS subs - 2 PB-2000 and 1 PB10-NSD. Bass is good for you.

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A few things that stand out. The grill is not curved, was there ever a flat one made?

The PB10-NSD (I have two) and PB12-NSD's were only offered with flat grills. The PB-1000 has a flat grill too. The PB-2000 was the first one with a curved metal grill.
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post #26884 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 08:50 AM
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I had a single SB-2000 in a room slightly bigger than yours for more than a year. It was impressive. Then a couple of weeks ago I added a second SB-2000 as an early Christmas present to myself. I wasn't entirely sure what to expect as I wasn't disappointed in the single SB-2000 by any means.

After living with duals for a couple of weeks, I'd say go for it. It's not just the extra headroom that you get, which in your case doesn't appear to matter all that much. To me the biggest improvements have been a) smoother bass in more positions and b) I hadn't realized quite how localized the impact (not the sound) was when using the single sub. I have mine set up diagonally opposite each other - front right and rear left. With the single sub front right it was easy to tell that the impact was coming from that general area. With duals, the impact seems to come from everywhere. It's hard to verbalize, but you'll know it when you feel it. It's far more immersive.

Put it this way: when playing the scene in War of the Worlds where the machine comes out of the ground, my wife would smile. When I played the same scene at the same volume after letting Audyssey XT32 work its magic on the duals, she was grinning from ear to ear and my daughter came running out of her bedroom wondering why her bed was shaking.

I'm now a dual sub convert, and would go for dual competent subs every time vs a single slightly more competent sub.
I have dual SB 2000 as well. This is the first time I ever had dual subs. Just curious did you gain match or level match them? I set my gain knob at 11 for both tempted to go up to 12 just don't want to make it to boomy.
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post #26885 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 10:40 AM
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Bummed -> no noticeable output to my new SB-2000, using Denon 4300h

I have a brand new Denon 4300h, hooked up my new SVS Ultra Bookshelves and SVS SB-2000 sub. Did all the right settings (speakers set to small, output for sub set to LFE+Main, crossovers set to 100hz for center, and 80hz for left/right, set the crossover dial on the Subwoofer to 'LFE', used the subwoofer's LFE input, set the sub's volume to 12:00 and then ran Audyssey. But the Test tone to sub gives a weak muffled sound, and when playing music or a subwoofer test-tone from youtube, same deal, virtually no output. Also tried 2:00 and maximum volume on the sub, and tried boosting the subwoofer output level in the Denon's 'manual' setup screen, etc... Tried Subwoofer 2 as well. ( As a side note, for left/right/center, I use the Denon's preouts and run them to an Emotiva XPA-5 amp. )

I then tried the little trick where I set all speakers to 'LARGE' and then hooked the sub up to one of the main speaker pre-outs. That seemed to indicate that the subwoofer cable and subwoofer itself are good, where i was hearing what sounded like the proper level and frequencies to the sub. The sub's speaker was pounding quite nicely, and my entire room started rattling at higher Denon-controlled listening volumes. ;-) ) That being said, I'm not quite sure what this SVS sub is 'supposed' to sound like as i haven't had a real sound system in many years...according to reviews it's supposed to be very tight, fast, just amazing. I was hoping to be blown away, literally. Hah.....

So assuming that the subwoofer and subwoofer cable are good, it's the Denon's subwoofer output that is the problem...or my configuration of it. (I suppose one other thing I could try, is to hook up to an old Polk Audio PSW10 subwoofer sitting in storage, and see what happens there... )

Anybody have issues with the Denon's subwoofer outputs or configuration? Not sure what else I can try. I read a few other forum articles and believe I've tried everything suggested, but still no go.

I did read that some people would have to put in a 'gain box' on their subwoofer output. After spending $1600 between the Denon and the Sub, there's no friggin' way I'm going to add on a 'gain box'. ;-)

Thx for any thoughts...
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post #26886 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rmazeffa View Post
I have a brand new Denon 4300h, hooked up my new SVS Ultra Bookshelves and SVS SB-2000 sub. Did all the right settings (speakers set to small, output for sub set to LFE+Main, crossovers set to 100hz for center, and 80hz for left/right, set the crossover dial on the Subwoofer to 'LFE', used the subwoofer's LFE input, set the sub's volume to 12:00 and then ran Audyssey. But the Test tone to sub gives a weak muffled sound, and when playing music or a subwoofer test-tone from youtube, same deal, virtually no output. Also tried 2:00 and maximum volume on the sub, and tried boosting the subwoofer output level in the Denon's 'manual' setup screen, etc... Tried Subwoofer 2 as well. ( As a side note, for left/right/center, I use the Denon's preouts and run them to an Emotiva XPA-5 amp. )

I then tried the little trick where I set all speakers to 'LARGE' and then hooked the sub up to one of the main speaker pre-outs. That seemed to indicate that the subwoofer cable and subwoofer itself are good, where i was hearing what sounded like the proper level and frequencies to the sub. The sub's speaker was pounding quite nicely, and my entire room started rattling at higher Denon-controlled listening volumes. ;-) ) That being said, I'm not quite sure what this SVS sub is 'supposed' to sound like as i haven't had a real sound system in many years...according to reviews it's supposed to be very tight, fast, just amazing. I was hoping to be blown away, literally. Hah.....

So assuming that the subwoofer and subwoofer cable are good, it's the Denon's subwoofer output that is the problem...or my configuration of it. (I suppose one other thing I could try, is to hook up to an old Polk Audio PSW10 subwoofer sitting in storage, and see what happens there... )

Anybody have issues with the Denon's subwoofer outputs or configuration? Not sure what else I can try. I read a few other forum articles and believe I've tried everything suggested, but still no go.

I did read that some people would have to put in a 'gain box' on their subwoofer output. After spending $1600 between the Denon and the Sub, there's no friggin' way I'm going to add on a 'gain box'. ;-)

Thx for any thoughts...
Your Output for sub should be set to LFE only and not LFE+Main.

Why did you get the SB2000 instead of the PB2000 if you don't mind me asking?

Also, after running Audyssey - don't be afraid to turn the levels on your sub up on the main level adjust anywhere up to 3-5 db should be fine.




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post #26887 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by logan456 View Post
I have dual SB 2000 as well. This is the first time I ever had dual subs. Just curious did you gain match or level match them? I set my gain knob at 11 for both tempted to go up to 12 just don't want to make it to boomy.
My receiver has Audyssey XT32 and dual independent sub-outs, so I matched them both to 75dB using the gain control during the initial setup and let Audyssey take care of the rest.
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post #26888 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by javan robinson View Post
Your Output for sub should be set to LFE only and not LFE+Main.

Why did you get the SB2000 instead of the PB2000 if you don't mind me asking?

Also, after running Audyssey - don't be afraid to turn the levels on your sub up on the main level adjust anywhere up to 3-5 db should be fine.
Ok, reset to factory defaults and re-ran Audyssey. I now am getting sound through the sub on 5.1 channel sources. Yeah! (and maybe I was before, but I just forgot to test that!) But I still can't get sound out of the sub on regular music listening. (Stereo) I read that to get sound out of the sub on stereo music, the Receiver need to be set to 'LFE+Main' ?

Any ideas of the magic setting that I'm missing, in order to get sound of the sub during stereo music listening?

I bought the SB-2000 over the PB, because I wanted something a bit lighter and more discrete looking, i really wanted the piano-gloss finish of the SB, and I also read that a sealed design will sound 'tighter' than a ported one when it comes to music.
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post #26889 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by rmazeffa View Post
Ok, reset to factory defaults and re-ran Audyssey. I now am getting sound through the sub on 5.1 channel sources. Yeah! (and maybe I was before, but I just forgot to test that!) But I still can't get sound out of the sub on regular music listening. (Stereo) I read that to get sound out of the sub on stereo music, the Receiver need to be set to 'LFE+Main' ?

Any ideas of the magic setting that I'm missing, in order to get sound of the sub during stereo music listening?

I bought the SB-2000 over the PB, because I wanted something a bit lighter and more discrete looking, i really wanted the piano-gloss finish of the SB, and I also read that a sealed design will sound 'tighter' than a ported one when it comes to music.
Glad you're getting sound out of it now

I have a similar receiver and setup to yours - Denon 6300h, a 7.1.4 setup and when I listen to Music I usually put it on Multi Channel In. This outputs sound to ALL of your speakers at the same time AND it powers your sub. Do this.

When you have it in Stereo - I believe that is only the front 2 speakers.

You can also put it in Dolby Surround and your sub should activate as well.

Let me know how it works for you. Good luck!




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post #26890 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 01:39 PM
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Glad you're getting sound out of it now

I have a similar receiver and setup to yours - Denon 6300h, a 7.1.4 setup and when I listen to Music I usually put it on Multi Channel In. This outputs sound to ALL of your speakers at the same time AND it powers your sub. Do this.

When you have it in Stereo - I believe that is only the front 2 speakers.

You can also put it in Dolby Surround and your sub should activate as well.

Let me know how it works for you. Good luck!

yes, I got it working with regular music after choosing one of the multi-channel modes! Silly me, I should have known to try something other than just Stereo. (my older Denon's been in storage for a few years so I've forgotten a lot things!)

I also made sure the Denon's subwoofer setting was on 'LFE' (not LFE+Main) as everybody told me to do. (if I had something like SVS Ultra Towers and wanted them to produce bass frequencies ALONG with a sub, then I would set LFE+Main. But you wouldn't need a sub with Ultra Towers. Heh...)

My first test songs for the sub (with music) were by Orbital, The Orb, and yes, I'll admit I also played Ariana Grande's 'Side to Side'. Hey, it's a good test! Really happy with the SB-2000. Now to see if I can get approval for the Ultra Towers at some stage. ;-)
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post #26891 of 31237 Old 12-18-2017, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rmazeffa View Post
yes, I got it working with regular music after choosing one of the multi-channel modes! Silly me, I should have known to try something other than just Stereo. (my older Denon's been in storage for a few years so I've forgotten a lot things!)

I also made sure the Denon's subwoofer setting was on 'LFE' (not LFE+Main) as everybody told me to do. (if I had something like SVS Ultra Towers and wanted them to produce bass frequencies ALONG with a sub, then I would set LFE+Main. But you wouldn't need a sub with Ultra Towers. Heh...)

My first test songs for the sub (with music) were by Orbital, The Orb, and yes, I'll admit I also played Ariana Grande's 'Side to Side'. Hey, it's a good test! Really happy with the SB-2000. Now to see if I can get approval for the Ultra Towers at some stage. ;-)
Hi,

I'm glad to hear that you got everything sorted-out and I hope that you are able to add some Ultra towers to your system. But, just in case you do, I would at least start by setting those speakers to Small with about a 60Hz or 80Hz crossover. 80Hz is usually better to start with. Your sub will always be more powerful than those speakers below about 80Hz, and LFE+Main is more likely to give you more distortion than it is to give you anything else.

You can certainly try different settings to discover what you personally prefer, but I have heard of very few instances where LFE+Main does not create some distortion. It can give the impression of being stronger bass, but it's more the boom box kind and not the clearer bass that you will be used to with your new SB2000, and with Audyssey.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #26892 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 06:58 AM
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Okay, so I apologize if this is not the right thread to ask this question, so please direct me to the right one if it isn't. I have the PB16 Ultra and PC13 Ultra. So, for about 95 percent of the time, my PB16 ultra doesn't chuff. But when it does... boy does it. I haven't really noticed any issues until last night, I'm watching Insurgent and towards the end, holy crap. There was more chuffing than I have ever heard and it even bottomed out (had that flapping sound). It was only a couple scenes but it was really bad.


I have a small room, 10x13. PB16 is on the left PC13 on the right. Right side has a semi open wall. I have a Yamaha a3050 with the YPAO on and measured to flat. Dynamic mode is on high. I feel like on minimum it just doesn't have... well... any dynamic to the sound. Bass under sound options is set to 1 but bass boost is off. MV is set to -24.5 during this movie. Under YPAO, the PB16 is set to -7 and PC13 is set to -4.5 (it has a bass boost in that location of the room). PB16's sound on the sub is set to -2 during that scene, I then put it to -5 during that scene and the chuffing went down considerably, but was still rather bad. PC13 has a volume, on the sub itself, at -2.5 (if I recall correctly, not at home right now).


So, firstly, has anyone watched this film and experienced this? I've been plagued with chuffing from this sub but better placement and better measuring from the YPAO has helped a lot. The reason I am writing this post now is the fact that it was so bad during that movie. I also have read so many posts about people not having issues with chuffing at all at any volume.


So it makes me wonder, do these people have dynamic range turned off? Did they measure using a DSP for their subs? I can't help but wonder if the YPAO is boosting bass for this sub for say... the 20hz range. And therefore, when those scenes come up and have a ton of 20hz and below material, the sub is going to chuff due to such boosting. Which leads me to wonder if I had a better eQ device such as a DSP, would that remedy this issue? I am about to get one and I hope it will help. I have noticed that adjusting the phase to allow for better sounding bass has helped as well. I can lower the volume and get the same perceived bass output, thus minimalizing the chuffing.


Do you all think that my settings are extreme or could be leading to such chuffing. I feel like I could never find the limits of the sub for 30hz or above frequencies, but the 20 and below stuff seems to always lead to chuffing when the volume is above a certain range. Sure, if I turn the MV down or the sub's volume down, no chuffing happens. But anything above the aforementioned levels, and it does happen. The PC13 has very little to NO chuffing.


So again, to summarize my rant... would dynamic range being on cause the chuffing at these scenes. Are my sound level settings rather high? Will a DSP help by offering better equalizing? Thanks for any input and yes, I have been in contact with SVS before and they normally just give me the same answer, that chuffing will happen on any ported sub.

7.2.4 Atmos Setup via a Yamaha a3050 receiver and two external amps: Emotiva 2 channel amp and a Parasound amp. Sony 940e for my TV. SVS Ultra 16 and SVS 13.5 for my subs. Klipsch for my LCR. JBL and Panasonic for my Surrounds. Focal for my on ceiling Atmos speakers. PS4 and Xbox One S for my consoles. Oppo 203 for my Blu Ray/UHD player.
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post #26893 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 11:00 AM
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Just got my dual PB4000s unpacked! WOOHOO! Will have them configured and dialed in soon.

AVR: Denon AVR-X7200WA | 4K: Oppo UDP-203 | Media: Ryzen 1800X 32GB DDR4 HCPC, Synology DS3615xs 172TB | Gaming: PS4 Pro/PSVR 10TB, PS3 | Speakers: Polk LSiM: 1x706c, 2x707, 4x900LS, 4x702F/X | Subs: 2xSVS PB4000, 2xSVS PC12+, 5xButtkicker BK-LFE | Vid: Sony VPL-VW885ES | Amp: Emotiva XPA7 Gen 3, Parasound 2125, 2xQSC GX3 | Power: 3xFurman Elite 20 PFi | UPS: APC SMT3000, 2xSMT2200 | Screen/Misc: 138" 2.35:1 Stewart CIMA Neve, Harmony Elite
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post #26894 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 11:15 AM
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Just got my dual PB4000s unpacked! WOOHOO! Will have them configured and dialed in soon.
Sweet. My single PB 4000 delivery is tomorrow. I can't wait.

Oh BTW. Svs is doing a limited time 3yr trade up program. If you bought a SVS sub in the last 3 years and want to buy a 4000 series sub they will honor a trade in.


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post #26895 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 12:02 PM
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Okay, so I apologize if this is not the right thread to ask this question, so please direct me to the right one if it isn't. I have the PB16 Ultra and PC13 Ultra. So, for about 95 percent of the time, my PB16 ultra doesn't chuff. But when it does... boy does it. I haven't really noticed any issues until last night, I'm watching Insurgent and towards the end, holy crap. There was more chuffing than I have ever heard and it even bottomed out (had that flapping sound). It was only a couple scenes but it was really bad.


I have a small room, 10x13. PB16 is on the left PC13 on the right. Right side has a semi open wall. I have a Yamaha a3050 with the YPAO on and measured to flat. Dynamic mode is on high. I feel like on minimum it just doesn't have... well... any dynamic to the sound. Bass under sound options is set to 1 but bass boost is off. MV is set to -24.5 during this movie. Under YPAO, the PB16 is set to -7 and PC13 is set to -4.5 (it has a bass boost in that location of the room). PB16's sound on the sub is set to -2 during that scene, I then put it to -5 during that scene and the chuffing went down considerably, but was still rather bad. PC13 has a volume, on the sub itself, at -2.5 (if I recall correctly, not at home right now).


So, firstly, has anyone watched this film and experienced this? I've been plagued with chuffing from this sub but better placement and better measuring from the YPAO has helped a lot. The reason I am writing this post now is the fact that it was so bad during that movie. I also have read so many posts about people not having issues with chuffing at all at any volume.


So it makes me wonder, do these people have dynamic range turned off? Did they measure using a DSP for their subs? I can't help but wonder if the YPAO is boosting bass for this sub for say... the 20hz range. And therefore, when those scenes come up and have a ton of 20hz and below material, the sub is going to chuff due to such boosting. Which leads me to wonder if I had a better eQ device such as a DSP, would that remedy this issue? I am about to get one and I hope it will help. I have noticed that adjusting the phase to allow for better sounding bass has helped as well. I can lower the volume and get the same perceived bass output, thus minimalizing the chuffing.


Do you all think that my settings are extreme or could be leading to such chuffing. I feel like I could never find the limits of the sub for 30hz or above frequencies, but the 20 and below stuff seems to always lead to chuffing when the volume is above a certain range. Sure, if I turn the MV down or the sub's volume down, no chuffing happens. But anything above the aforementioned levels, and it does happen. The PC13 has very little to NO chuffing.


So again, to summarize my rant... would dynamic range being on cause the chuffing at these scenes. Are my sound level settings rather high? Will a DSP help by offering better equalizing? Thanks for any input and yes, I have been in contact with SVS before and they normally just give me the same answer, that chuffing will happen on any ported sub.
Hi,

I don't know that I can answer all of your questions. Ideally, you should email Ed Mullen, at SVS, and let him help you troubleshoot this specific problem in detail. But, perhaps I can help to start the process. First, any ported sub can chuff, depending on the material, the sub's placement in the room, and the external EQ applied. But, you may be able to change two of those variables, while still enjoying the material that is making the sub chuff.

You can experiment with improved room placement by temporarily taking the PC13 out of your system and placing the PB16 in an optimal position in the room. You could do a reverse sub crawl by putting the PB16 on furniture sliders and moving it around. Then, you would position the PC13 after you found the optimal position for the PB16. (The PC13 should be a little more resistant to chuffing anyway--same size ports; less powerful amplifier.) You might, for instance, find that just swapping sub locations would work, or that you end up moving the PB16 to a completely new location, perhaps one that is even closer to your MLP.

Second, although I am not familiar with YPAO, I would experiment with some different combinations of settings. You mentioned Dynamic Mode. Perhaps taking it off high and increasing the internal bass boost would help. I would also consider increasing the gain on the PB16 and decreasing the trim, even below -5. I can't tell you that doing that will solve your problem, but there is going to be a certain degree of trial-and-error to find out what will help.

The third thing that you can try is to use the 20Hz mode rather than the extended mode on the PB16. Again, I don't know how much that will help, or whether you will like the resulting bass as much, but in a small room you should be getting pretty good low frequency room gain, and in theory, the 20Hz mode should reduce chuffing.

Finally, you could experiment with some of the PB16's internal DSP. For instance, you could set a high pass filter for that sub. I have never experimented with the internal DSP on my PB16's, so I can't speak to the result, but I know it's there for situations like this one.

You can certainly try a miniDSP, but to use it effectively, you will also have to use REW. Ultimately that may prove to be the best solution, but it's going to be a fairly big investment in time, with its own learning curve. To start with, I think I would just go back to square one with respect to the location of the PB16, and then systematically work my way through the suggestions listed above. Perhaps some combination of those measures will work well and please you, and if not, you can develop a Plan B.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike

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post #26896 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 12:23 PM
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Hi,

I don't know that I can answer all of your questions. Ideally, you should email Ed Mullen, at SVS, and let him help you troubleshoot this specific problem in detail. But, perhaps I can help to start the process. First, any ported sub can chuff, depending on the material, the sub's placement in the room, and the external EQ applied. But, you may be able to change two of those variables, while still enjoying the material that is making the sub chuff.

You can experiment with improved room placement by temporarily taking the PC13 out of your system and placing the PB16 in an optimal position in the room. You could do a reverse sub crawl by putting the PB16 on furniture sliders and moving it around. Then, you would position the PC13 after you found the optimal position for the PB16. (The PC13 should be a little more resistant to chuffing anyway--same size ports; less powerful amplifier.) You might, for instance, find that just swapping sub locations would work, or that you end up moving the PB16 to a completely new location, perhaps one that is even closer to your MLP.

Second, although I am not familiar with YPAO, I would experiment with some different combinations of settings. You mentioned Dynamic Mode. Perhaps taking it off high and increasing the internal bass boost would help. I would also consider increasing the gain on the PB16 and decreasing the trim, even below -5. I can't tell you that doing that will solve your problem, but there is going to be a certain degree of trial-and-error to find out what will help.

The third thing that you can try is to use the 20Hz mode rather than the extended mode on the PB16. Again, I don't know how much that will help, or whether you will like the resulting bass as much, but in a small room you should be getting pretty good low frequency room gain, and in theory, the 20Hz mode should reduce chuffing.

Finally, you could experiment with some of the PB16's internal DSP. For instance, you could set a high pass filter for that sub. I have never experimented with the internal DSP on my PB16's, so I can't speak to the result, but I know it's there for situations like this one.

You can certainly try a miniDSP, but to use it effectively, you will also have to use REW. Ultimately that may prove to be the best solution, but it's going to be a fairly big investment in time, with its own learning curve. To start with, I think I would just go back to square one with respect to the location of the PB16, and then systematically work my way through the suggestions listed above. Perhaps some combination of those measures will work well and please you, and if not, you can develop a Plan B.

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
I will certainly try that. I didn't mention that the only movement I can do with the sub is switching its location with the PC13. But, I could try that. I did have it there originally and there was chuffing, but I didn't measure everything at that point, it was just where I put it to begin with. Now that I have fine tuned everything, maybe I'll get better results.


I'm not sure what you mean by 20hz mode. I know the older subs has that but the only options for tuning is standard, extended and sealed. I'm assuming you mean to have it in standard mode since that would be thethe equivalent option on this sub. I didn't mention that I always have it in standard, or fully open.


But I do suspect dynamic mode may have a role in this. And the EQ on YPAO. I have already insured that no insulation is blocking the ports and my amp has already been replaced for a grounding issue. I know I'm past the point of free return, so I'll have to make due. But I think it may just be a setting issue. Thanks for the input!
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I will certainly try that. I didn't mention that the only movement I can do with the sub is switching its location with the PC13. But, I could try that. I did have it there originally and there was chuffing, but I didn't measure everything at that point, it was just where I put it to begin with. Now that I have fine tuned everything, maybe I'll get better results.


I'm not sure what you mean by 20hz mode. I know the older subs has that but the only options for tuning is standard, extended and sealed. I'm assuming you mean to have it in standard mode since that would be thethe equivalent option on this sub. I didn't mention that I always have it in standard, or fully open.


But I do suspect dynamic mode may have a role in this. And the EQ on YPAO. I have already insured that no insulation is blocking the ports and my amp has already been replaced for a grounding issue. I know I'm past the point of free return, so I'll have to make due. But I think it may just be a setting issue. Thanks for the input!
Just based on the size of the room, you appear to like the bass really loud. It could be you're sitting in a null for certain frequencies, hence the need to use the dynamic mode on the AVR.

The thing with using dynamic mode is that you may not know how much boost is being applied and at what frequencies. Since the "gain" on both subs are near the max your AVR may be applying 10dbs of boost, maybe more, which could result in having the subs over driven even with the main volume at -24db.

You also might not hear the PC chuffing as much because the ports point to the ceiling. IMO your AVR is applying way too much boost to the bass/LFE channel AND you're sitting in a null.

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post #26898 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 02:07 PM
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Ok, reset to factory defaults and re-ran Audyssey. I now am getting sound through the sub on 5.1 channel sources. Yeah! (and maybe I was before, but I just forgot to test that!) But I still can't get sound out of the sub on regular music listening. (Stereo) I read that to get sound out of the sub on stereo music, the Receiver need to be set to 'LFE+Main' ?

Any ideas of the magic setting that I'm missing, in order to get sound of the sub during stereo music listening?

I bought the SB-2000 over the PB, because I wanted something a bit lighter and more discrete looking, i really wanted the piano-gloss finish of the SB, and I also read that a sealed design will sound 'tighter' than a ported one when it comes to music.
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Glad you're getting sound out of it now

I have a similar receiver and setup to yours - Denon 6300h, a 7.1.4 setup and when I listen to Music I usually put it on Multi Channel In. This outputs sound to ALL of your speakers at the same time AND it powers your sub. Do this.

When you have it in Stereo - I believe that is only the front 2 speakers.

You can also put it in Dolby Surround and your sub should activate as well.

Let me know how it works for you. Good luck!
I may be old-school, but I prefer to listen to 2CH music in Stereo, and absolutely NEVER in "Multi Channel" (aka "All CH Stereo") or Dolby Surround. Every once in a great while, I will use PII Music but that is quite rare.

If you are having trouble getting output from the sub during Stereo playback, there are a couple of things to check; make absolutely certain that your front speakers are set to "small" and make sure you are not using "Pure" or "Direct" mode. If these two things are set as they should be and you still lack sub output using Stereo, something else is amiss.
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post #26899 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 03:46 PM
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Sweet. My single PB 4000 delivery is tomorrow. I can't wait.

Oh BTW. Svs is doing a limited time 3yr trade up program. If you bought a SVS sub in the last 3 years and want to buy a 4000 series sub they will honor a trade in.


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Is the new SB4000 just like the older SB13 Ultra? Seems to be priced about the same.

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post #26900 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 04:01 PM
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I may be old-school, but I prefer to listen to 2CH music in Stereo, and absolutely NEVER in "Multi Channel" (aka "All CH Stereo") or Dolby Surround. Every once in a great while, I will use PII Music but that is quite rare.

If you are having trouble getting output from the sub during Stereo playback, there are a couple of things to check; make absolutely certain that your front speakers are set to "small" and make sure you are not using "Pure" or "Direct" mode. If these two things are set as they should be and you still lack sub output using Stereo, something else is amiss.
Hey yeah I totally hear you. If I'm going for the pure music sound about 80% of the time I'll put it on Stereo or even Pure Direct and take the sub out of it.

Though when I'm out and around the house, working or fiddling with something I'll put it in on multi channel so I can hear it the best wherever I go throughout the house.




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post #26901 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 04:14 PM
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Is the new SB4000 just like the older SB13 Ultra? Seems to be priced about the same.
Pretty similar. But, updated driver, more power, remote and app controlled, additional DSP settings.

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post #26902 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 04:17 PM
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Pretty similar. But, updated driver, more power, remote and app controlled, additional DSP settings.
Thanks. I don't remember what the SB13 Ultra was new. But the price seems cheaper on the New SB4000. I don't even see the SB13 Ultra for sale anymore or in the outlet.

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post #26903 of 31237 Old 12-19-2017, 04:22 PM
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Thanks. I don't remember what the SB13 Ultra was new. But the price seems cheaper on the New SB4000. I don't even see the SB13 Ultra for sale anymore or in the outlet.
I think SVS dropped the prices by $100 per sub except for the PC4000- it went UP by $100 . The old models are still listed at Crutchfield and probably other vendors too.

The $100 price difference between the PB and PC version is hard to understand. The PC is a cardboard tube, costs half as much for them to ship, has no finish whatsoever. It should be less than the SB. As much as I like the PC form factor I'd feel a little ripped off by the PC4000 instead of the PB4000 with all of its oak veneer or gloss black finish.

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post #26904 of 31237 Old 12-20-2017, 02:24 AM
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But I do suspect dynamic mode may have a role in this. And the EQ on YPAO. I have already insured that no insulation is blocking the ports and my amp has already been replaced for a grounding issue. I know I'm past the point of free return, so I'll have to make due. But I think it may just be a setting issue. Thanks for the input!
The dynamic mode on the A3050 is simply a dynamic range option. Setting it to Max/High is CORRECT to preserve the dynamic range of all the content you play.

So no, the PB16U is not chuffing because of your mode per se - technically changing DRC to min basically means that you are turning down your sub and that's why it won't chuff because it's barely doing anything.

To answer your other YPAO questions - the A3050 only automatically EQs down to 30hz. Below that, it neither adds nor subtract anything although you could use YPAO manual to cut up to -12db with the widest Q to affect the 27-29hz region but that's generally pointless as you have no accuracy over it. The gain or null at below 30hz is simply affected by your room and sub's positioning, you need REW to verify this.

A minidsp or antimode can help fix the issues at 20-29hz provided you are having an issue at that region to begin with.

For now, my suggestion is to follow what mthomas says.
My other recommendation is to try and do YPAO again - if possible getting the receiver to report a low negative on the sub trim (-5db is a good number, try not to exceed -2db). Yamaha's receivers are very finicky about their pre-outs (particularly the sub pre-outs) and owning an A850 before confirms this for me.


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J
The thing with using dynamic mode is that you may not know how much boost is being applied and at what frequencies. Since the "gain" on both subs are near the max your AVR may be applying 10dbs of boost, maybe more, which could result in having the subs over driven even with the main volume at -24db.
.
He's mistaken about Dynamic mode. YPAO does not have Dynamic EQ like Audyssey does. Dynamic mode on Yamaha receivers simply refers to the dynamic range of the content, whether to normalize the volume or not.
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post #26905 of 31237 Old 12-20-2017, 07:32 AM
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The dynamic mode on the A3050 is simply a dynamic range option. Setting it to Max/High is CORRECT to preserve the dynamic range of all the content you play.

So no, the PB16U is not chuffing because of your mode per se - technically changing DRC to min basically means that you are turning down your sub and that's why it won't chuff because it's barely doing anything.

To answer your other YPAO questions - the A3050 only automatically EQs down to 30hz. Below that, it neither adds nor subtract anything although you could use YPAO manual to cut up to -12db with the widest Q to affect the 27-29hz region but that's generally pointless as you have no accuracy over it. The gain or null at below 30hz is simply affected by your room and sub's positioning, you need REW to verify this.

A minidsp or antimode can help fix the issues at 20-29hz provided you are having an issue at that region to begin with.

For now, my suggestion is to follow what mthomas says.
My other recommendation is to try and do YPAO again - if possible getting the receiver to report a low negative on the sub trim (-5db is a good number, try not to exceed -2db). Yamaha's receivers are very finicky about their pre-outs (particularly the sub pre-outs) and owning an A850 before confirms this for me.




He's mistaken about Dynamic mode. YPAO does not have Dynamic EQ like Audyssey does. Dynamic mode on Yamaha receivers simply refers to the dynamic range of the content, whether to normalize the volume or not.
So I adjusted things before reading this response. But, this is what I will say. Last night I looked at the room gain option for the PB16ultra. I turned it on for 25hz at 6db. Viola. I listened to all the scenes in Insurgent and there was no chuffing. I even set the sub's volume, on the sub itself, to -4. Now, I don't know if I am losing a lot of sound output at 25hz and below. From what I understand it simply lowers the output for that frequency and below. Is my understanding correct?


The sub sounded great. Very clean and no chuffing, even at pretty loud volumes. Like I said, I am pretty much past the point of returning for free, so I need to make this work. Which, like I said, turning that option on seems to have done the trick. I guess my small room and its layout was causing the higher outputs for those frequencies.


And I did notice the YPAO had a very large Q factor for this sub at 30hz. So I don't know, maybe it was doing something funky with the sub. I will say that I am getting the REW program here soon. I think with the layout of my room it just may help. Plus I like learning about all of this stuff anyway, so it won't bother me to invest the time. Thanks
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post #26906 of 31237 Old 12-20-2017, 08:12 AM
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Thanks! The guys over at SVS told me it would be too much sound in that room, but I figured they just didn't want to deal with the return of the SB. I've got RBH towers and center and this is the most expensive speaker in my system at $440. I think I'll just stick with one for now.
A return of the SB12-NSD is not a problem in the least. A PB12-NSD (if you can find one) would work fine in that space and would be considerably more powerful in the 18-36 Hz octave, where LFE lives on action and sci-fi movies. If you can't find a PB12-NSD, then consider a PB-1000 or step-up to a PB-2000/PC-2000.

I think the comment/advice from our CS team about 'too much sound' in that room size probably referred to excessive room gain which can potentially be an issue with a ported sub which is flat to 20 Hz anechoic and then exhibits a rising low-end in a smaller enclosed room - which can sound bottom-heavy. An AVR which EQs the sub channel (like Audyssey MultEQ XT or XT32) will take care of that issue, though.

Room gain issues notwithstanding, there is subjectively a major difference between the SB12-NSD and PB12-NSD and you would absolutely benefit from that on movies.

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post #26907 of 31237 Old 12-20-2017, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rmazeffa View Post
yes, I got it working with regular music after choosing one of the multi-channel modes! Silly me, I should have known to try something other than just Stereo. (my older Denon's been in storage for a few years so I've forgotten a lot things!)

I also made sure the Denon's subwoofer setting was on 'LFE' (not LFE+Main) as everybody told me to do. (if I had something like SVS Ultra Towers and wanted them to produce bass frequencies ALONG with a sub, then I would set LFE+Main. But you wouldn't need a sub with Ultra Towers. Heh...)

My first test songs for the sub (with music) were by Orbital, The Orb, and yes, I'll admit I also played Ariana Grande's 'Side to Side'. Hey, it's a good test! Really happy with the SB-2000. Now to see if I can get approval for the Ultra Towers at some stage. ;-)
Your AVR likely has a separate bass management section for 2 channel stereo. There is no need to select a multi-channel sound mode to get the subwoofer working on 2-channel source material.

With the Ultra Bookshelf, speaker size to Small and a 60 Hz crossover (for both the regular set-up and 2-channel set-up menus) will work fine.

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post #26908 of 31237 Old 12-20-2017, 09:06 AM
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So I adjusted things before reading this response. But, this is what I will say. Last night I looked at the room gain option for the PB16ultra. I turned it on for 25hz at 6db. Viola. I listened to all the scenes in Insurgent and there was no chuffing. I even set the sub's volume, on the sub itself, to -4. Now, I don't know if I am losing a lot of sound output at 25hz and below. From what I understand it simply lowers the output for that frequency and below. Is my understanding correct?


The sub sounded great. Very clean and no chuffing, even at pretty loud volumes. Like I said, I am pretty much past the point of returning for free, so I need to make this work. Which, like I said, turning that option on seems to have done the trick. I guess my small room and its layout was causing the higher outputs for those frequencies.


And I did notice the YPAO had a very large Q factor for this sub at 30hz. So I don't know, maybe it was doing something funky with the sub. I will say that I am getting the REW program here soon. I think with the layout of my room it just may help. Plus I like learning about all of this stuff anyway, so it won't bother me to invest the time. Thanks
I think you would benefit from independent calibration and level matching of both subs individually and then combined. I would pick-up a Galaxy CM 130 SPL meter, set the AVR to reference level, and check the SPL of the speaker channels using the internal test tones. They should be close to 75 dB but it's worth checking to establish a baseline and then adjust them all to exactly 75 dB (C/Slow).

Then set the AVR sub channel level to 0 dB for starters. Play the subwoofer rumble tone and set the 13-Ultra to 75 dB (C/Slow). Then set the 16-Ultra to 75 dB (C/Slow). Then turn-on both subs and measure the SPL increase. It should be at least 4 dB with both on the front wall and set to 0 phase. Tweak the phase on the 16-Ultra to see if you can increase the combined SPL over both phases set to 0. There might be some standing wave issues between the two subs in the room width axis depending on how far apart the two subs are, and how wide the room is.

Once you're done with that, then reduce the AVR sub channel level until the combined SPL is 75 dB (C/Slow). Since the C-weighted filter reads 2-3 dB low, that will mean the subs are already running a bit hot. Your current set-up may be running the subs much hotter than the speaker channels without you realizing it - which can contribute to chuffing.

Since the Yamaha doesn't EQ <30 Hz, that means it's not scrubbing off room gain (which would reduce the potential for chuffing). Enabling the on-board room gain comp is accomplishing what the Yamaha isn't - and that's why it's eliminating the chuffing problem.

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post #26909 of 31237 Old 12-20-2017, 09:22 AM
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love this... nothing like the old school tried and true SPL meter .

not all the gizmo auto-eq is effective... trust the meter.. and your own ears!

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I think you would benefit from independent calibration and level matching of both subs individually and then combined. I would pick-up a Galaxy CM 130 SPL meter, set the AVR to reference level, and check the SPL of the speaker channels using the internal test tones. They should be close to 75 dB but it's worth checking to establish a baseline and then adjust them all to exactly 75 dB (C/Slow).

Then set the AVR sub channel level to 0 dB for starters. Play the subwoofer rumble tone and set the 13-Ultra to 75 dB (C/Slow). Then set the 16-Ultra to 75 dB (C/Slow). Then turn-on both subs and measure the SPL increase. It should be at least 4 dB with both on the front wall and set to 0 phase. Tweak the phase on the 16-Ultra to see if you can increase the combined SPL over both phases set to 0. There might be some standing wave issues between the two subs in the room width axis depending on how far apart the two subs are, and how wide the room is.

Once you're done with that, then reduce the AVR sub channel level until the combined SPL is 75 dB (C/Slow). Since the C-weighted filter reads 2-3 dB low, that will mean the subs are already running a bit hot. Your current set-up may be running the subs much hotter than the speaker channels without you realizing it - which can contribute to chuffing.

Since the Yamaha doesn't EQ <30 Hz, that means it's not scrubbing off room gain (which would reduce the potential for chuffing). Enabling the on-board room gain comp is accomplishing what the Yamaha isn't - and that's why it's eliminating the chuffing problem.

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Just wanted to share my experience with svs and say thank you @Ed Mullen . I recently purchased a second sb 16 ultra to add to my system. I set it up and ran the accu eq through the onkyo receiver and I was getting really strange crossover points and it was setting the sub output way to high. Being a novice I didn't really have a clue where to start so I took a stab at adjusting levels manually with better results but it wasn't right. I called svs and Mr. Mullen answered the phone. I told him what was going on and he pretty much immediately thought the onkyo Mic was bad. He could have left it at that but no, he spent probably an hour or more on the phone with me going through my menus and settings on the reciever and subs. Also being very patient while waiting for me to switch around rcas and splitter, trying different sub outs on the receiver. He logically and systematically went through my whole setup with me to eliminate all options except for Mic and avr not working properly. At the end of all this he told me he was near positive my Mic wasn't working properly. I called onkyo tech support and told them what we had just did for diagnosis and tech support told me that the Mic was fine and I was getting crazy crossover and sub levels from background noise. I told him I was pretty convinced it was the Mic. The guy then tells me if I want to waist my money on a new Mic to go for it. He transfers me to parts. Parts lady was a pleasure to work with . I told her about the tech support opinion and Eds diagnosis as well. She apologized for tech support and sent me a new Mic for free. Guess what, Mr. Mullen was correct. Set up the new Mic and crossovers and levels are in line and the system sounds better than ever. Thanks again Ed I really appreciate the phenomenal customer service.
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