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post #28051 of 31618 Old 04-17-2018, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post
I never thought about which port to plug. Good question, as I use the ceneter port on my PB13 Ultra. Hope your feeling better, I sure enjoyed all the Blurays I purchased from you last year.
It seems like everyone plugs the center port on the PB's lol. But since the PC Ultra 13 doesn't technically have a middle port then it is a tough decision for me and I think I'm missing out on something :P. I'm still having medical issues unfortunately and currently out of work, but nothing life threatening so I see it is a huge win. I love life! I'm glad you're enjoying the blu-rays buddy. I have almost bought back my collection after paying off medical debt. Thankfully.

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post #28052 of 31618 Old 04-17-2018, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Zuehlke View Post
I upgraded from Dual PC12+'s. I seriously considered Dual PB4000's (or PC4000's), but bit the bullet and went straight to Dual PB16's

While I don't regret my decision in the least bit, I'd be very interested to hear your comparison between the two!

SVS was awesome through the whole Upgrade process, BTW. Couldn't have been easier.
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Maybe a little. I already have a PB4000 so this is replacing it. Or if I can find room it just might be added to it. In the later case those wife undertones will turn into over the top tones.
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Originally Posted by lag1791 View Post
So far the Pb16 Ultra hits hard.. More than enough for me. Ended up with auto eq setting on the AV at - 7.5db bumped it manually up to - 4db. This is with the 16ultra's volume at - 5db. Litterally will shake the room couch and punch you in the chest. Seems to do it effortlessly too.

Musically so far it bends in with my system seamlessly.

My initial impressions between the PB4000 and PB-16ultra. Very simular subwoofer. Same sound quality. I think the 4000 blended in slightly better musically with my tower's but I think that more an issue with my RP-260f's than the sub. When I eventually upgrade to the Rf-7 III's I expect it to be better.

Anyway for movies the Ultra defiantly seems to put out the same ground shaking accurate bass as the 4000 series. Definitely seems to do it with less effort and I feel I have allot more power on tap to use if I want it.
You guys are killing me with your PB16U upgrade talk! Now I've got the fever and I've only had my PB-4000 for three months Do you think duel PB16U's would be too much in my 15x15x9 media room?
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post #28053 of 31618 Old 04-17-2018, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by iStorm View Post
It seems like everyone plugs the center port on the PB's lol. But since the PC Ultra 13 doesn't technically have a middle port then it is a tough decision for me and I think I'm missing out on something :P. I'm still having medical issues unfortunately and currently out of work, but nothing life threatening so I see it is a huge win. I love life! I'm glad you're enjoying the blu-rays buddy. I have almost bought back my collection after paying off medical debt. Thankfully.
Hi,

I'm sorry to hear that you were having some medical issues, but glad that things are better now. "I love life!" says it all.

It really doesn't matter which port you plug, and it also shouldn't make any difference which way the cylinder is turned. With the big boxes, rotating them can slightly change the frequency response. But as you said, with a down-firing sub inside a cylinder, I can't see how turning the cylinder could change things at all. So, you aren't missing anything.

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #28054 of 31618 Old 04-17-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RDalton View Post
You guys are killing me with your PB16U upgrade talk! Now I've got the fever and I've only had my PB-4000 for three months Do you think duel PB16U's would be too much in my 15x15x9 media room?
Hi,

Some of us are a little nuts when it comes to bass, so I don't think there is really too much subwoofage for some people, almost irrespective of room size. With that said, though, in a 2000^3 room, you are going to be getting some pretty good room gain by the time you get down to about 25Hz. The PB16 has about 3.5db more output than the PB4000 from about 35 down. Above 35Hz, they should be just about dead even. With good room gain starting in the mid-20's or so, that leaves a pretty narrow window for the PB16's to give you a big advantage in usable SPL over what dual PB4000's would give you.

The features, the cabinet, the sound quality, and the DSP are all essentially identical, so there wouldn't be any advantage there with the PB16's. Unless you just want to have the PB16's to say that you have them (which I would understand ) you will really do just as well to keep your PB4000 and add another one just like it. That will give you an average of 6db more SPL than you have now, averaged across the subs' passband.

At ~30Hz and below, a 5db increase in SPL is perceived as a doubling in loudness. The doubling in output, combined with a smoother frequency response, and with the good room gain that you have to be getting, should make you very happy.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 04-17-2018 at 04:59 PM.
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post #28055 of 31618 Old 04-17-2018, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RDalton View Post
You guys are killing me with your PB16U upgrade talk! Now I've got the fever and I've only had my PB-4000 for three months Do you think duel PB16U's would be too much in my 15x15x9 media room?
If I could have went dual I would have stayed with the PB4000 and just got a 2nd one. But being limited to only one sub I decided I wanted the more output from the Ultra. They are both beasts.

Then again if you go dual ultras you won't go wrong there either. Except your bank account and next door neighbors might not be too happy.

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post #28056 of 31618 Old 04-18-2018, 03:37 AM
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those of you with front firing rear ported subs, do you face them in any particular direction in a corner besides asthetically pleasing?
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post #28057 of 31618 Old 04-18-2018, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RDalton View Post
You guys are killing me with your PB16U upgrade talk! Now I've got the fever and I've only had my PB-4000 for three months Do you think duel PB16U's would be too much in my 15x15x9 media room?
there is no such thing as too much when it comes to bass

Go for it, you won't regret it.

i have two sb16's and although i am not even close to their max limit and its more than i will ever need , i am still thinking to add a couple in a year or two
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post #28058 of 31618 Old 04-18-2018, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
there is no such thing as too much when it comes to bass

Go for it, you won't regret it.

i have two sb16's and although i am not even close to their max limit and its more than i will ever need , i am still thinking to add a couple in a year or two
All this talk about upgrading makes me think many here will not be satisfied until you have subs set up like Doc Brown's lab in Back to the Future.
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post #28059 of 31618 Old 04-18-2018, 11:17 AM
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All this talk about upgrading makes me think many here will not be satisfied until you have subs set up like Doc Brown's lab in Back to the Future.
A row of PB 16 Ultra's would be AWESOME
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post #28060 of 31618 Old 04-18-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by NCCaniac View Post
All this talk about upgrading makes me think many here will not be satisfied until you have subs set up like Doc Brown's lab in Back to the Future.
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A row of PB 16 Ultra's would be AWESOME
I've seen quite a few setups in these threads of AVSer's subs that would easily rival Doc Brown's setup. I can recall 8 PB-13's and in particular popalock's row of 8 18" DIY SI's in front and a row of 8 more 18" in the rear behind his seating...and with RF-7II's sitting on top for L and R's. It's only a matter of time before we see someone with a row of PB-16's.

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post #28061 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Balbolito View Post
there is no such thing as too much when it comes to bass

Go for it, you won't regret it.

i have two sb16's and although i am not even close to their max limit and its more than i will ever need , i am still thinking to add a couple in a year or two
Nowhere near the limit of my Dual PB-16's, and I'd be lying if I said the thought of 2 more subs had never crossed my mind....
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post #28062 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 06:22 AM
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Which new SVS sub to get to match my PB12-NSD?

Hi,

I bought a PB12-NSD for my theater room a while back, since then I moved into a condo and lent my PB12 to my mother and father in law. Me and my wife will move in a house this year, or the next at the latest, and I'm eager to have a dedicated home theater room again. ;-)

I'm already planning on the setup of that next room and having two subs is the main upgrade I'm whishing for but I'm wondering if it is a good or bad idea to have two different subs? I would get a PB-2000 or SB-2000 to go along the PB12, would that be a good match? Or it would really be better to get rid of the PB12 and get two of the same kind?

Thanks

Alex
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post #28063 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 06:28 AM
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Hi,

I bought a PB12-NSD for my theater room a while back, since then I moved into a condo and lent my PB12 to my mother and father in law. Me and my wife will move in a house this year, or the next at the latest, and I'm eager to have a dedicated home theater room again. 😉

I'm already planning on the setup of that next room and having two subs is the main upgrade I'm whishing for but I'm wondering if it is a good or bad idea to have two different subs? I would get a PB-2000 or SB-2000 to go along the PB12, would that be a good match? Or it would really be better to get rid of the PB12 and get two of the same kind?

Thanks

Alex
What area are you in? I have a pb12nsd in the Houston area that I'll be putting up for sale next week. Its pretty much brand new if you want a matching sub
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post #28064 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 06:44 AM
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Hey guys quick, possibly stupid, question. I’m on my way as we speak to pick up my PB13U I just bought. Is there any reason I couldn’t lay it on it’s side during transport?
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post #28065 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 06:46 AM
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What area are you in? I have a pb12nsd in the Houston area that I'll be putting up for sale next week. Its pretty much brand new if you want a matching sub
Thanks for the offer but I'm in Canada ;-) and I'm not quite ready to buy yet (I would not have the place to store a sub until I get a house)
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post #28066 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 06:52 AM
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Hey guys quick, possibly stupid, question. I’m on my way as we speak to pick up my PB13U I just bought. Is there any reason I couldn’t lay it on it’s side during transport?
I think it is fine to lay it on its side. For the SB16Us, when installing and moving them around or messing with feet, etc., it is common to roll them over on the side (for example, to get them on a moving blanket to slide them around, or get a furniture mover under them, etc.).

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post #28067 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 06:58 AM
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Hi,

I bought a PB12-NSD for my theater room a while back, since then I moved into a condo and lent my PB12 to my mother and father in law. Me and my wife will move in a house this year, or the next at the latest, and I'm eager to have a dedicated home theater room again. ;-)

I'm already planning on the setup of that next room and having two subs is the main upgrade I'm whishing for but I'm wondering if it is a good or bad idea to have two different subs? I would get a PB-2000 or SB-2000 to go along the PB12, would that be a good match? Or it would really be better to get rid of the PB12 and get two of the same kind?

Thanks

Alex
I might also add that I have a preference to get smaller sub/s this time around (SB-2000), since the ported line are so big and having two of them might be a space problem depending of the size of the room I will end up with.
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post #28068 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by alexend View Post
Hi,

I bought a PB12-NSD for my theater room a while back, since then I moved into a condo and lent my PB12 to my mother and father in law. Me and my wife will move in a house this year, or the next at the latest, and I'm eager to have a dedicated home theater room again. ;-)

I'm already planning on the setup of that next room and having two subs is the main upgrade I'm whishing for but I'm wondering if it is a good or bad idea to have two different subs? I would get a PB-2000 or SB-2000 to go along the PB12, would that be a good match? Or it would really be better to get rid of the PB12 and get two of the same kind?

Thanks

Alex
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I might also add that I have a preference to get smaller sub/s this time around (SB-2000), since the ported line are so big and having two of them might be a space problem depending of the size of the room I will end up with.
Hi Alex,

I definitely wouldn't mix ported and sealed subwoofers. They would have different low-end frequency responses that could be hard to make work together. It could take you a lot of effort with REW (to measure your frequency response) and with some form of outboard DEQ, such as a miniDSP, to get them to play well together. If you are going to have a dedicated HT, then I think that you should take the trouble to have two subs of the same type.

Mixing a PB12-NSD with a PB (or PC) 2000 would work better. The 2000 series has an average (varying somewhat by frequency) of about 2.5db more max output than the older model, above 20Hz. But, you could probably make up the difference in output by positioning the 12-NSD closer to your listening position. Life would be a little easier, though, with two subs of exactly the same type.

As for whether to buy two larger ported subwoofers, or two smaller sealed subwoofers, that is an entirely personal decision. You can find on-line reviews of the PB2000 and the SB2000, which will let you compare their output capabilities. You could also compare the two 12-NSD models on Data-Bass. The newer models will be a little stronger, as noted above. But, their relative strengths will be comparable, and they won't have changed at all below 20Hz.

https://data-bass.com/systems

If space is at a premium and the room is small enough--let's say under 2000^3, then the SB2000's might be a great choice. But, if you are concerned about having quite as much low-frequency extension as you want, then you could also consider the PC2000's. Some people like the look of the cylinders, and some people don't, but the 16.5" footprint is a definite advantage in tight spaces.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #28069 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 09:24 AM
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Hi Alex,

I definitely wouldn't mix ported and sealed subwoofers. They would have different low-end frequency responses that could be hard to make work together.
I see this posted a lot, and I’m not questioning it, but I would like to understand it better. Granted, a ported sub is going to have a different frequency response versus one that is sealed. But wouldn’t this be true of any dissimilar subs, regardless of whether one, both or neither are ported? Sound waves are sound waves, and have no knowledge of whether they originated from a ported or sealed sub? The only way to insure a uniform frequency response would be to employ two identical, or at least very similar subs. I don’t see where the fact of being ported or sealed is as much an issue as simply the frequency response of each sub.

Maybe I’m nitpicking. But it seems that there’s a general consensus that you shouldn’t ever mix ported and sealed subs. I’m contending that whether the sub is ported or not is irrelevant, and that what matters is the overall response curve. Theoretically you could have a ported and a sealed sub with much more similar response curves than two different ported subs, could you not?

Am I missing something? I look forward to the experts to educate me.

 



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post #28070 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 09:35 AM
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I see this posted a lot, and I’m not questioning it, but I would like to understand it better. Granted, a ported sub is going to have a different frequency response versus one that is sealed. But wouldn’t this be true of any dissimilar subs, regardless of whether one, both or neither are ported? Sound waves are sound waves, and have no knowledge of whether they originated from a ported or sealed sub? The only way to insure a uniform frequency response would be to employ two identical, or at least very similar subs. I don’t see where the fact of being ported or sealed is as much an issue as simply the frequency response of each sub.

Maybe I’m nitpicking. But it seems that there’s a general consensus that you shouldn’t ever mix ported and sealed subs. I’m contending that whether the sub is ported or not is irrelevant, and that what matters is the overall response curve. Theoretically you could have a ported and a sealed sub with much more similar response curves than two different ported subs, could you not?

Am I missing something? I look forward to the experts to educate me.

 



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The biggest issue is the (sometimes extreme) phase shift of a ported sub around the port tune frequency.


Here is a great quote from Bill Fitzmaurice, a long time forum member and speaker designer:

"It makes about as much engineering sense as putting a snow tire on one wheel of your car, a rain tire on another, a summer tire on the third and a racing slick on the fourth. The intent would be to have good performance in all road conditions, the result would be bad performance in any."
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post #28071 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 09:39 AM
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The biggest issue is the (sometimes extreme) phase shift of a ported sub around the port tune frequency.
Okay, that's the part I was not considering. Thanks!

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post #28072 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 09:54 AM
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The biggest issue is the (sometimes extreme) phase shift of a ported sub around the port tune frequency.


Here is a great quote from Bill Fitzmaurice, a long time forum member and speaker designer:

"It makes about as much engineering sense as putting a snow tire on one wheel of your car, a rain tire on another, a summer tire on the third and a racing slick on the fourth. The intent would be to have good performance in all road conditions, the result would be bad performance in any."
Bill hasn't posted anything since 8/2017. Always enjoyed his physics contributions. Anyone know what happened to him?
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post #28073 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 09:55 AM
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Speaking of Bill F....it looks like he was banned from AVS back in Aug of last year. What's up with that??

He was one of the most knowledgeable and prolific members of the forum with over 15K posts in about 8 years...I, for one will miss him around here.
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post #28074 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Speaking of Bill F....it looks like he was banned from AVS back in Aug of last year. What's up with that??



He was one of the most knowledgeable and prolific members of the forum with over 15K posts in about 8 years...I, for one will miss him around here.


I agree.. that’s crazy!


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post #28075 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Speaking of Bill F....it looks like he was banned from AVS back in Aug of last year. What's up with that??

He was one of the most knowledgeable and prolific members of the forum with over 15K posts in about 8 years...I, for one will miss him around here.
Also curious why he would have been banned. He could be a little ornery at times but he was probably always right and wasn't worse than many others on here.
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post #28076 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 10:32 AM
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I see this posted a lot, and I’m not questioning it, but I would like to understand it better. Granted, a ported sub is going to have a different frequency response versus one that is sealed. But wouldn’t this be true of any dissimilar subs, regardless of whether one, both or neither are ported? Sound waves are sound waves, and have no knowledge of whether they originated from a ported or sealed sub? The only way to insure a uniform frequency response would be to employ two identical, or at least very similar subs. I don’t see where the fact of being ported or sealed is as much an issue as simply the frequency response of each sub.

Maybe I’m nitpicking. But it seems that there’s a general consensus that you shouldn’t ever mix ported and sealed subs. I’m contending that whether the sub is ported or not is irrelevant, and that what matters is the overall response curve. Theoretically you could have a ported and a sealed sub with much more similar response curves than two different ported subs, could you not?

Am I missing something? I look forward to the experts to educate me.

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I think that it's mostly the phase shift near the port tune, that Alan referred to, but even at higher frequencies, the slope of the frequency response would be different. I think that at low listening levels, both sealed and ported subwoofers would be pretty linear in their responses. But, as you increased the volume of both subs, the sealed sub would start to roll-off much earlier--perhaps around 50Hz with SVS subs. At that point, they would no longer be producing the same SPL, at the same frequencies, and the sound would become somewhat unbalanced.

It's to try to maintain that SPL balance that it is typically recommended to position a less powerful ported (or sealed) sub closer to a listening position, and a more powerful sub further way, as SPL declines with distance. Placement can help to equalize SPL, where one sub is more powerful than the other. But, the shape of the frequency response needs to be the same. And, even then, there could be some unexpected interactions with room modes that might produce unexpected peaks or cancellations, unless the nearfield sub were very close to the listening position. I believe that explanation is essentially correct, and if not, a real expert like Ed Mullen can correct it.

Another factor is the automated room EQ that most of us use when we calibrate our systems. Room EQ systems, such as Audyssey, attempt to remove peaks and valleys in the frequency response by setting control points to add and subtract SPL at certain frequencies. But, they deliberately don't EQ subs below the combined F3 point of the subs in an audio system. So, if a sealed sub starts to roll-off by 3db at 50Hz, compared to a ported sub, Audyssey will simply stop EQing at that point, and the listener will lose the benefit of EQ below 50Hz where it can typically still be very helpful.

All things considered, it is much better not to mix ported and sealed subs unless you can measure the frequency response and make independent adjustments to it with some outboard form of EQ. And, even then, the results are usually a kludge as Bill said.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 04-19-2018 at 10:38 AM.
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post #28077 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 11:06 AM
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Also curious why he would have been banned. He could be a little ornery at times but he was probably always right and wasn't worse than many others on here.
All it takes is to have a MOD with a chip on his shoulder, he POSTS in public blah blah telling you off. VS a PM giving everyone time to chill. Some of us/ME by nature always want to get LAST word when you THINK you are RIGHT and post again. By doing so it sometimes gets you GONE. I use my real name so I try to treat everyone like I want to e treated.
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post #28078 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I think that it's mostly the phase shift near the port tune, that Alan referred to, but even at higher frequencies, the slope of the frequency response would be different. I think that at low listening levels, both sealed and ported subwoofers would be pretty linear in their responses. But, as you increased the volume of both subs, the sealed sub would start to roll-off much earlier--perhaps around 50Hz with SVS subs. At that point, they would no longer be producing the same SPL, at the same frequencies, and the sound would become somewhat unbalanced.

It's to try to maintain that SPL balance that it is typically recommended to position a less powerful ported (or sealed) sub closer to a listening position, and a more powerful sub further way, as SPL declines with distance. Placement can help to equalize SPL, where one sub is more powerful than the other. But, the shape of the frequency response needs to be the same. And, even then, there could be some unexpected interactions with room modes that might produce unexpected peaks or cancellations, unless the nearfield sub were very close to the listening position. I believe that explanation is essentially correct, and if not, a real expert like Ed Mullen can correct it.

Another factor is the automated room EQ that most of us use when we calibrate our systems. Room EQ systems, such as Audyssey, attempt to remove peaks and valleys in the frequency response by setting control points to add and subtract SPL at certain frequencies. But, they deliberately don't EQ subs below the combined F3 point of the subs in an audio system. So, if a sealed sub starts to roll-off by 3db at 50Hz, compared to a ported sub, Audyssey will simply stop EQing at that point, and the listener will lose the benefit of EQ below 50Hz where it can typically still be very helpful.

All things considered, it is much better not to mix ported and sealed subs unless you can measure the frequency response and make independent adjustments to it with some outboard form of EQ. And, even then, the results are usually a kludge as Bill said.

Regards,
Mike
thanks all for the details. So since I'n not equipped to mesure and calibrate stuff myself, I only use my Denon 3808ci with Audyssey XT to setup things automatically. So for me the most simpler the better ;-)


So I would have to choose between those scenarios:

PB12 with PB-1000 for about 700 $CA (can't predict exactly what will be the drawback on bass but there will be some)
PB12 with PB-2000 for about 1k $CA (same as the above but seems to be a better match to the PB12 according to specs?)
2x PB-1000 or SB for 1.3k $CA
2x PB-2000 or SB for 2k $CA
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post #28079 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by alexend View Post
thanks all for the details. So since I'n not equipped to mesure and calibrate stuff myself, I only use my Denon 3808ci with Audyssey XT to setup things automatically. So for me the most simpler the better ;-)


So I would have to choose between those scenarios:

PB12 with PB-1000 for about 700 $CA (can't predict exactly what will be the drawback on bass but there will be some)
PB12 with PB-2000 for about 1k $CA (same as the above but seems to be a better match to the PB12 according to specs?)
2x PB-1000 or SB for 1.3k $CA
2x PB-2000 or SB for 2k $CA
You are very welcome! For most of us, including me, the simpler the better.

Of those options, I think that either Scenario Two or Scenario Four would be better. The PB12-NSD would work much better with the PB2000, in my opinion, than it would with the PB1000. I don't think that the PB1000 would add much either. Ideally, you might place the PB12 a little closer to your listening position. If you were able to get the PB12 about half the distance from your MLP as the PB2000, they should work very well together.

Scenario Three with two PB1000's, or two SB1000's, would be a significant step down from Scenario Two, in my opinion. If you want two sealed subs, I would recommend dual SB2000's. And, if you want some additional output and probably just a little better sound quality, compared to the second scenario, then dual PB2000's are a good solution. Of the two, I would expect the dual SB2000's to be a couple of hundred dollars cheaper than the PB2000's.

That gives you a less expensive good solution, and a much more expensive, slightly better solution. If my PB12-NSD were still in good shape, and I wanted to stay with ported subs, I would probably just get a PB2000 or a PC2000 and save the cost of a second subwoofer. If I wanted to switch to sealed subs, for whatever reason, then I think it would have to be Scenario Four for me. I hope this helps!

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #28080 of 31618 Old 04-19-2018, 01:42 PM
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Hi,

Some of us are a little nuts when it comes to bass, so I don't think there is really too much subwoofage for some people, almost irrespective of room size. With that said, though, in a 2000^3 room, you are going to be getting some pretty good room gain by the time you get down to about 25Hz. The PB16 has about 3.5db more output than the PB4000 from about 35 down. Above 35Hz, they should be just about dead even. With good room gain starting in the mid-20's or so, that leaves a pretty narrow window for the PB16's to give you a big advantage in usable SPL over what dual PB4000's would give you.

The features, the cabinet, the sound quality, and the DSP are all essentially identical, so there wouldn't be any advantage there with the PB16's. Unless you just want to have the PB16's to say that you have them (which I would understand ) you will really do just as well to keep your PB4000 and add another one just like it. That will give you an average of 6db more SPL than you have now, averaged across the subs' passband.

At ~30Hz and below, a 5db increase in SPL is perceived as a doubling in loudness. The doubling in output, combined with a smoother frequency response, and with the good room gain that you have to be getting, should make you very happy.

Regards,
Mike
Okay, you talked me in off the ledge. Thanks for the great info, Mike! Now, I've got to figure out how to get that second PB-4000. Father's Day is just around the corner

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