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post #28171 of 31562 Old 05-01-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
If you look back a few pages in the thread add Mullen had provided this explanation and of course was weighted towards the PC4000. If you want the detail just look a few pages back.


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I already looked back 10 pages before I posted (some of my comments refer to discussion "a few pages back"), as a courtesy...I'm not new here... So unless you have 100 posts per page or something, it's not "a few pages back". Still looking, and just saying... Or I could ask somebody who knows.
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post #28172 of 31562 Old 05-01-2018, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
I already looked back 10 pages before I posted (some of my comments refer to discussion "a few pages back"), as a courtesy...I'm not new here... So unless you have 100 posts per page or something, it's not "a few pages back". Still looking, and just saying... Or I could ask somebody who knows.
It was on another thread, but i have quoted here for you:

The max SPL (CEA-2010) deltas between the discontinued 13-Ultra and the 4000 series is (as I have mentioned previously and Mike stated above) about 0.5-1.0 dB on average (depending on the test frequency). This is with both amps set to 0 dB, and is consistent with the 1000W vs 1200W rated power difference between the two amp platforms.

The FR sweeps shown on the website are not all taken at the same exact drive level. We adjust the drive level of the FR sweep to obtain an adequate S/N ratio for good data acquisition (some test days simply have higher ambient noise levels than others). Naturally the FR sweep level doesn't reflect the maximum output capability of the subwoofer - and we state that below the FR graphs.

I just did a quick check of the Standard Tune PC13-Ultra vs Standard Tune PC-4000 CEA-2010 test data (these models were specifically mentioned above) and the deltas (in favor of the PC-4000) are:

20 Hz 1.0 dB
25 Hz 1.1 dB
31.5 Hz 0.2 dB
40 Hz 0.8 dB
50 Hz 1.2 dB
63 Hz 1.3 dB
80 Hz 0.7 dB

Again no real surprises here - typical/expected gains given the 1000W/1200W power level differences between the two platforms.
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post #28173 of 31562 Old 05-01-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
Thoughts on PC13 Ultra vs PC4000? Will use in sealed mode, most likely. Won't be replacing the 13, the 4000 will go in the 13's position and the 13 will go to where the "other" sub is. Unless we "need" three subs.

I'm in the Toronto area. Last time I bought SVS, Sonic Boom was the only local dealer. They brought the stuff to my house in the East burbs. As you said, no demo possibility, that's the reason I never went there in person. Now there's Summit right near me, it's near to the NAD HQ, but you need an appointment to do whatever there. The owner said he would also bring the stuff to me himself rather than ship (perhaps obviously), but he also gave me the impression he sometimes brings stuff to people to demo. Maybe check with him in case I'm wrong...
Hi,

Ray (imureh) gave you the comparative max SPL numbers between the two models (at the standard port tune of ~20Hz) and you can see that they are very close in performance. The new DSP is supposed to be a little more exact at the different port tunes, and the new features are both cool and convenient. But, performance-wise, there won't be a lot of difference.

Just out of curiosity, are you sure that you want to use those subwoofers in sealed mode? There certainly isn't anything wrong with doing that if you want to, but in extended mode each PC13 or PC4000 is about the equivalent of three subs in sealed mode from about 25Hz down. And, the two ported modes continue to have a sizable output advantage up to about 50Hz.

https://data-bass.com/systems

I already know from the Audyssey thread that you have been around, and that you are very analytical and exacting in your applications. So, I am sure that you have your reasons. But, you are certainly missing out on a lot of low-bass SPL and tactile response with your ported subs only operating in sealed mode. And SB13's or Sb4000's might be a cheaper way to go, if you really prefer something about the sealed subs. I don't think that the ported subs, operating in sealed mode, can ever be quite as effective at being sealed subs, as the purely sealed subs can be. But, they can certainly be far more powerful, in the ported applications for which they were really designed, than sealed subs can ever be.

Just a thought!

Regards,
Mike
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* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
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Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #28174 of 31562 Old 05-01-2018, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

Ray (imureh) gave you the comparative max SPL numbers between the two models (at the standard port tune of ~20Hz) and you can see that they are very close in performance. The new DSP is supposed to be a little more exact at the different port tunes, and the new features are both cool and convenient. But, performance-wise, there won't be a lot of difference.

Just out of curiosity, are you sure that you want to use those subwoofers in sealed mode? There certainly isn't anything wrong with doing that if you want to, but in extended mode each PC13 or PC4000 is about the equivalent of three subs in sealed mode from about 25Hz down. And, the two ported modes continue to have a sizable output advantage up to about 50Hz.

https://data-bass.com/systems

I already know from the Audyssey thread that you have been around, and that you are very analytical and exacting in your applications. So, I am sure that you have your reasons. But, you are certainly missing out on a lot of low-bass SPL and tactile response with your ported subs only operating in sealed mode. And SB13's or Sb4000's might be a cheaper way to go, if you really prefer something about the sealed subs. I don't think that the ported subs, operating in sealed mode, can ever be quite as effective at being sealed subs, as the purely sealed subs can be. But, they can certainly be far more powerful, in the ported applications for which they were really designed, than sealed subs can ever be.

Just a thought!

Regards,
Mike
I've just changed my PC12+ back to sealed mode, bump the gain on the amp up 5dbs, turned off the room gain comp, and added a couple of dbs to the PEQ at 31hz. Can't say if any of this is correct since I don't have the means to measure nor the inclination to. My room is on the small side, just over 1600 cubes. I kind of like it a little better with what small sampling of content I've had a chance to listen to. Just need to hit up some of the demo worthy scenes to be sure. I had it in sealed mode during Den of Thieves and it pounded.

As for the OP, the PC4000 in sealed mode extends deeper than the SB4000 and of course offers more placement options. And the option to go ported is always there.
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post #28175 of 31562 Old 05-01-2018, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
I've just changed my PC12+ back to sealed mode, bump the gain on the amp up 5dbs, turned off the room gain comp, and added a couple of dbs to the PEQ at 31hz. Can't say if any of this is correct since I don't have the means to measure nor the inclination to. My room is on the small side, just over 1600 cubes. I kind of like it a little better with what small sampling of content I've had a chance to listen to. Just need to hit up some of the demo worthy scenes to be sure. I had it in sealed mode during Den of Thieves and it pounded.

As for the OP, the PC4000 in sealed mode extends deeper than the SB4000 and of course offers more placement options. And the option to go ported is always there.
Hi,

There certainly isn't anything wrong with using the sealed mode as you are doing, and I didn't mean to imply that there was. It might make a nice change, sometimes. But, part of my curiosity had to do with why the OP would add a third ported sub to run in sealed mode, when either of his two existing subs would already be as powerful as two or more sealed subs at most low-bass frequencies?

I have my own reasons for preferring more than two subwoofers, so I can always understand adding another sub for improved frequency response or for increased bass envelopment. But, adding a third ported sub to run in sealed mode has me a little curious, that's all.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #28176 of 31562 Old 05-02-2018, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post
Does anyone know where I can get those rubber disks that you attach to the bottom of the subs? My PC13 Ultra came with a few. And now that I'm moving it to wood floors, I want to install them at the bass of the plate. I can't find where I put them. I thought they were in the box but it's not.

Any ideas?

https://www.svsound.com/products/sou...olation-system

*edit* Oh, wait...you mean the rubber discs, about 3/4" and sticky on one side, like my PC12+s had? I wouldn't know, sorry.....but I'm sure SVS would be happy to dig some up for you.

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post #28177 of 31562 Old 05-02-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
As I mentioned above it appears SVS is selling a rebranded prior gen Dayton wireless unit. See link below. Dayton has discontinued it and has a newer unit which is what SVS has been selling until now. Not sure why SVS worked with Dayton to do this instead of the newer one but assuming there is no internal changes then reviews of the prior generation unit were typically very good.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ofers--300-580
Hi Confinoj

Thanks for your posting but can you please clarify whether the wireless transmitter that is available at the Parts Express link in your post is the same one that SVS is selling or the previous generation transmitter? I ask the question because the cost of the transmitter at SVS is $89 but the one on the Parts Express site is $69. Thanks for your clarification.
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post #28178 of 31562 Old 05-03-2018, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Cal68 View Post
Hi Confinoj

Thanks for your posting but can you please clarify whether the wireless transmitter that is available at the Parts Express link in your post is the same one that SVS is selling or the previous generation transmitter? I ask the question because the cost of the transmitter at SVS is $89 but the one on the Parts Express site is $69. Thanks for your clarification.
This is what I know:

Parts Express/Dayton has sold 2 wireless kits. They discontinued the 1st gen one and last year started selling the 2nd gen one that is currently available on their website for $68.88.

SVS used to sell these same exact units, Dayton branded, and switched to the 2nd gen one when Dayton did. Now they are selling an SVS branded wireless kit that physically appears identical to the Dayton 1st gen one. You can compare the pictures. I don't know if internally it is actually the same or not but spec wise it appears similar.
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post #28179 of 31562 Old 05-04-2018, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by confinoj View Post
This is what I know:

Parts Express/Dayton has sold 2 wireless kits. They discontinued the 1st gen one and last year started selling the 2nd gen one that is currently available on their website for $68.88.

SVS used to sell these same exact units, Dayton branded, and switched to the 2nd gen one when Dayton did. Now they are selling an SVS branded wireless kit that physically appears identical to the Dayton 1st gen one. You can compare the pictures. I don't know if internally it is actually the same or not but spec wise it appears similar.
Thank you very much my friend. I really appreciate your thorough explanation of the situation. I will give SVS a call and find out what they have to say about this matter. My preference is to purchase the second generation kit but I have three SVS subs in my house so would like to give them my business if the price is right and they are selling the more recent model.

Cal68

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post #28180 of 31562 Old 05-04-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith Zuehlke View Post
https://www.svsound.com/products/sou...olation-system

*edit* Oh, wait...you mean the rubber discs, about 3/4" and sticky on one side, like my PC12+s had? I wouldn't know, sorry.....but I'm sure SVS would be happy to dig some up for you.
Yea, Those are it. I don't see them on the SVS site as an option. The PC13 is not heavy but its' not light either. Damn thing is a 100 pounds and I don't want to ruin my floors.

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post #28181 of 31562 Old 05-04-2018, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lag1791 View Post
I think you will be surprised on the output of the PB's compared to the SB. Make sure you play some ULF tracks such as the opening scene in "day after tomorrow" (10sec into opening credits) or the F Irene scene in Black Hawk Down.
I recently heard a pair of PB-16's and they were indeed quite impressive. The beginning scene of Dunkirk startled me and at the same time, put a huge smile on my face.
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post #28182 of 31562 Old 05-04-2018, 06:47 PM
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I have played the beginning sequence of the Edge of Tomorrow on the Dual SB-16's and they sounded good for the most part but there is one section that it does not sound "healthy". Not sure if it's over excursion or what but it doesn't handle that particular frequency at high volume very well.
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post #28183 of 31562 Old 05-05-2018, 12:54 AM
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Super 8 Train scene is 22+ Hz. I wouldn't use that to demo my sub.

War of the Worlds, 9 etc. Would be my go to demo disc.

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post #28184 of 31562 Old 05-05-2018, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by lganz316 View Post
Super 8 Train scene is 22+ Hz. I wouldn't use that to demo my sub.

War of the Worlds, 9 etc. Would be my go to demo disc.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
I actually don't have Super 8, so don't know what it would sound like on my system. But I absolutely second the recommendation on "9". That movie is just amazing.....

It's all about extension BELOW 20hz

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post #28185 of 31562 Old 05-07-2018, 07:00 AM
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Limit how low the subwoofer goes

Hi guys, I can`t find any thread on this and would like to know if anyone has any experience with this:

I have the SVS SB2000 where the manufacturer claims can go down to 19hz. I was talking with an engineer that is of the opinion(based on his own tests) that none of any manufacturer`s claims are true.

So if a sub is trying to reach low, but hasn`t the capacity to do so, therefore results in sound distortion,boominess or whatever.

In my case then with the SB2000, he claims that is not capable to play anything under 35hz, properly.

So he suggests to install a filter between the pre and the sub to not allow it to go below 35hz. Doing so he claims that the sub will play at it`s best potential.

Has anyone used a filter to limit the low end? If so how was it?

Thank you
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post #28186 of 31562 Old 05-07-2018, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by YIANNIS THEODOROU View Post
Hi guys, I can`t find any thread on this and would like to know if anyone has any experience with this:

I have the SVS SB2000 where the manufacturer claims can go down to 19hz. I was talking with an engineer that is of the opinion(based on his own tests) that none of any manufacturer`s claims are true.

So if a sub is trying to reach low, but hasn`t the capacity to do so, therefore results in sound distortion,boominess or whatever.

In my case then with the SB2000, he claims that is not capable to play anything under 35hz, properly.

So he suggests to install a filter between the pre and the sub to not allow it to go below 35hz. Doing so he claims that the sub will play at it`s best potential.

Has anyone used a filter to limit the low end? If so how was it?

Thank you
Others more experienced will no doubt respond, but the claim that no subs will go below 35hz properly isn't correct.
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post #28187 of 31562 Old 05-07-2018, 07:22 AM
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If that's the case, then no one would ever need a subwoofer since most main speakers can handle frequencies down to 35Hz. I would recommend finding another engineer. LOL
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post #28188 of 31562 Old 05-07-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YIANNIS THEODOROU View Post
Hi guys, I can`t find any thread on this and would like to know if anyone has any experience with this:

I have the SVS SB2000 where the manufacturer claims can go down to 19hz. I was talking with an engineer that is of the opinion(based on his own tests) that none of any manufacturer`s claims are true.

So if a sub is trying to reach low, but hasn`t the capacity to do so, therefore results in sound distortion,boominess or whatever.

In my case then with the SB2000, he claims that is not capable to play anything under 35hz, properly.

So he suggests to install a filter between the pre and the sub to not allow it to go below 35hz. Doing so he claims that the sub will play at it`s best potential.

Has anyone used a filter to limit the low end? If so how was it?

Thank you
As stated above the engineer you spoke with is mis-informed. While some sub manufacturers inflate their specs, SVS's specs have been shown to be pretty accurate. Lots of good subs (from SVS and other respectable companies) are fully capable of playing well into the teens cleanly and with authority. With the SB2000 in particular being a sealed design it won't have the same level of output at 19Hz of it's ported brother, the PB-2000, but may still have substantial output from room gain in a smaller room. Bottom line is do not install a filter on that sub.

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Last edited by confinoj; 05-07-2018 at 07:51 AM.
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post #28189 of 31562 Old 05-07-2018, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by YIANNIS THEODOROU View Post
Hi guys, I can`t find any thread on this and would like to know if anyone has any experience with this:

I have the SVS SB2000 where the manufacturer claims can go down to 19hz. I was talking with an engineer that is of the opinion(based on his own tests) that none of any manufacturer`s claims are true.

So if a sub is trying to reach low, but hasn`t the capacity to do so, therefore results in sound distortion,boominess or whatever.

In my case then with the SB2000, he claims that is not capable to play anything under 35hz, properly.

So he suggests to install a filter between the pre and the sub to not allow it to go below 35hz. Doing so he claims that the sub will play at it`s best potential.

Has anyone used a filter to limit the low end? If so how was it?

Thank you
Hi,

I'm sure that the engineer meant well, but unless he is testing using approved CEA 2010 equipment and methods, it is not likely that his tests are very meaningful. The SB2000 has had independent third-party testing done and I am providing a link to the results. The engineer with whom you spoke is also misinformed about the effects of Total Harmonic Distortion below 35Hz. We are very unlikely to be able to hear distortion above 10% or even 20% THD at those frequencies. We would be able to hear the effects of distortion or compression much more easily above about 60Hz or so.

Some subwoofers are indeed incapable of playing frequencies below about 35Hz and some manufacturers do, in fact, inflate their specs. But, that is not the case with any of the Internet Direct companies with which I am familiar. They depend too heavily on favorable owner reviews, and word-of-mouth advertising, for their survival.

Inexpensive subs can sound bad when pushed with any significant SPL at all. But, with better subs, in most cases where boomy one-note bass is occurring, it is the result of poor frequency response and random peaking at some frequencies, typically due to subwoofer placement vis-a-vis room modes. The Guide, linked in my signature, has a pretty good explanation of what happens to subwoofers inside a room. That's why professional testing is done outdoors.

You would definitely, absolutely, not want to use a high-pass filter at 35Hz for your SB2000. You would lose all of the benefit of its low-frequency capabilities. Here is a professional review of the SB2000, complete with measurements. A review of the somewhat similar SVS SB12-NSD can be found on the Data-Bass Systems site. That one will list THD on the detailed measurements page.

https://www.lifewire.com/svs-sb-2000-review-3135028

Regards,
Mike
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post #28190 of 31562 Old 05-07-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by YIANNIS THEODOROU View Post
Hi guys, I can`t find any thread on this and would like to know if anyone has any experience with this:

I have the SVS SB2000 where the manufacturer claims can go down to 19hz. I was talking with an engineer that is of the opinion(based on his own tests) that none of any manufacturer`s claims are true.

So if a sub is trying to reach low, but hasn`t the capacity to do so, therefore results in sound distortion,boominess or whatever.

In my case then with the SB2000, he claims that is not capable to play anything under 35hz, properly.

So he suggests to install a filter between the pre and the sub to not allow it to go below 35hz. Doing so he claims that the sub will play at it`s best potential.

Has anyone used a filter to limit the low end? If so how was it?

Thank you
SVS already has a "filter" by using a DSP to get the best performance out of this sub. It would make zero sense to put another one there. The DSP will control the distortion by not allowing the amp to overpower the driver. I had the predecessor sub, which I believe was rated down to 24 Hz, and my admittedly haphazard measurements backed that up. In the year I ran those subs, I never heard a bad sound come out of them.
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post #28191 of 31562 Old 05-07-2018, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by youthman View Post
I have played the beginning sequence of the Edge of Tomorrow on the Dual SB-16's and they sounded good for the most part but there is one section that it does not sound "healthy". Not sure if it's over excursion or what but it doesn't handle that particular frequency at high volume very well.
I believe that's just a 10 hz sine wave. Its been known to destroy certain subs. I feel sorry for the ones that had their volume maxed out and didn't know beforehand of this intro. I hated the movie and the surprise in the beginning is just plain dumb in my opinion.

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post #28192 of 31562 Old 05-08-2018, 06:22 AM
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Hi, I am new to HT and set everything up but got an emotiva basx s8 sub, I am returning it since its withing the return period and thinking of replacing it with the SVS pb1000, I think with svs getting great customer service reviews and their products being good as well, I was thinking I can always upgrade by the end of the year to the pb2000 if needed as they have a great upgrade policy from what I have read, is there anything in this analysis that I am missing. My room is 20x20 with 8 feet ceiling and their subwoofer match tool recommended the pb1000 and it is in my budget.


I was chatting with a SVS rep and I told him if I would get the chest punch feeling from the PB1000, he asked what volume do I listen to. I told him between -35db and -45db and he said to feel the chest punch feeling, you have to listen at higher master volumes and audyssey dyn eq on helps.

I do have my Dyn eq (reference) and dynamic vol on (light) and I like the sound. But if I listen at those volumes is it even worthwhile to upgrade or just stick to the emotiva basx s8, since I can hear bass from this subwoofer, juts dont feel the chest punch feeling.

Just curious to hear from the owners here.

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post #28193 of 31562 Old 05-08-2018, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post
Hi, I am new to HT and set everything up but got an emotiva basx s8 sub, I am returning it since its withing the return period and thinking of replacing it with the SVS pb1000, I think with svs getting great customer service reviews and their products being good as well, I was thinking I can always upgrade by the end of the year to the pb2000 if needed as they have a great upgrade policy from what I have read, is there anything in this analysis that I am missing. My room is 20x20 with 8 feet ceiling and their subwoofer match tool recommended the pb1000 and it is in my budget.





I was chatting with a SVS rep and I told him if I would get the chest punch feeling from the PB1000, he asked what volume do I listen to. I told him between -35db and -45db and he said to feel the chest punch feeling, you have to listen at higher master volumes and audyssey dyn eq on helps.



I do have my Dyn eq (reference) and dynamic vol on (light) and I like the sound. But if I listen at those volumes is it even worthwhile to upgrade or just stick to the emotiva basx s8, since I can hear bass from this subwoofer, juts dont feel the chest punch feeling.



Just curious to hear from the owners here.


It is true that to feel chest slam you will need to listen at high SPLs. One option is also to have a the sub very near field. For that size room I would recommend a larger sub than the PB 1000 but then again your listening levels are quite low so you would be barely pushing the PB 1000.


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post #28194 of 31562 Old 05-08-2018, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post
Hi, I am new to HT and set everything up but got an emotiva basx s8 sub, I am returning it since its withing the return period and thinking of replacing it with the SVS pb1000, I think with svs getting great customer service reviews and their products being good as well, I was thinking I can always upgrade by the end of the year to the pb2000 if needed as they have a great upgrade policy from what I have read, is there anything in this analysis that I am missing. My room is 20x20 with 8 feet ceiling and their subwoofer match tool recommended the pb1000 and it is in my budget.


I was chatting with a SVS rep and I told him if I would get the chest punch feeling from the PB1000, he asked what volume do I listen to. I told him between -35db and -45db and he said to feel the chest punch feeling, you have to listen at higher master volumes and audyssey dyn eq on helps.

I do have my Dyn eq (reference) and dynamic vol on (light) and I like the sound. But if I listen at those volumes is it even worthwhile to upgrade or just stick to the emotiva basx s8, since I can hear bass from this subwoofer, juts dont feel the chest punch feeling.

Just curious to hear from the owners here.
Hi,

I think that if you move from your current subwoofer to a PB1000, you will start to experience bass in a different way than you are currently experiencing it. That experience will take another incremental step (although not quite as large a step) when you move from a PB1000 to a PB2000. So, I definitely think that you will benefit from upgrading to a PB1000. This is one of those times where we don't don't know what we don't know. When you have a better subwoofer, you will see what I mean.

Different people experience tactile sensations in different ways. Some people are more susceptible to feeling chest punch than others. FWIW, I can feel light sensations of chest punch at low volume levels. Another factor is the amount of bass boost we may be adding. Your normal listening level is unusually low, but you are augmenting your bass with DEQ. DEQ adds up to 2.2db of bass boost for every -5db under 0.0 MV. So, at a listening level of -40, DEQ could add up to ~18db of bass at some frequencies.

If I were you, I would do two things. First, I would buy a better subwoofer. If the PB1000 is what you can afford right now, then I would start with that. Perhaps later you will be able to upgrade to the PB2000 you mentioned. The second thing I would do, once you have the new subwoofer and have recalibrated with Audyssey, is to turn off Dynamic Volume and increase your master volume level by several decibels.

Dynamic Volume can be helpful in circumstances where there are sleeping children you don't want to disturb, or something along that line. But, DV maintains a more constant volume by reducing the difference between the softer sounds and the louder ones. It compresses everything into the middle in order to create more of an average sound level. When that happens, though, you lose some of the dynamic content--the contrast between soft and loud. And, that detracts from what we hear and feel. For instance, if you want to feel more chest punch, that chest punch will accompany the sudden dynamic (louder) bass sounds in movies and in music, which DV is trying to eliminate.

We feel chest punch with a gunshot, or from the percussive strike of a bass drum, or some similar sudden bass sound. Having a better subwoofer, which is capable of playing a better frequency range with more SPL, and eliminating the compression which accompanies Dynamic Volume, will enable you to feel more of that chest punch sensation that you want. And, with a better subwoofer, you will also be able to experience low-frequency content in a way that you never have before. That is part of the "don't know what we don't know" that I referred to earlier.

I think that you will enjoy having a better subwoofer, even if your overall listening levels are never very high.

Regards,
Mike
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post #28195 of 31562 Old 05-08-2018, 08:05 AM
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Replacing a Definitive Technology BP-8080 System, I finally pulled the trigger on the remainder of my all SVS loudspeaker home theater setup. In addition to four of the ceiling mounted Prime Elevation Atmos speakers and dual SB16-Ultra subs I currently have, I will now add to them a pair of the Ultra Towers, Ultra Center Channel and four Ultra Surrounds all in Piano Gloss finish. They should be here and in operation by this time next week. With slightly under 1700 cubic feet of enclosed space to work with, the room should have no excuse to be fully pressurized.
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post #28196 of 31562 Old 05-08-2018, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sid369 View Post
Hi, I am new to HT and set everything up but got an emotiva basx s8 sub, I am returning it since its withing the return period and thinking of replacing it with the SVS pb1000, I think with svs getting great customer service reviews and their products being good as well, I was thinking I can always upgrade by the end of the year to the pb2000 if needed as they have a great upgrade policy from what I have read, is there anything in this analysis that I am missing. My room is 20x20 with 8 feet ceiling and their subwoofer match tool recommended the pb1000 and it is in my budget.


I was chatting with a SVS rep and I told him if I would get the chest punch feeling from the PB1000, he asked what volume do I listen to. I told him between -35db and -45db and he said to feel the chest punch feeling, you have to listen at higher master volumes and audyssey dyn eq on helps.

I do have my Dyn eq (reference) and dynamic vol on (light) and I like the sound. But if I listen at those volumes is it even worthwhile to upgrade or just stick to the emotiva basx s8, since I can hear bass from this subwoofer, juts dont feel the chest punch feeling.

Just curious to hear from the owners here.

To get chest slam you would need to be listening a fair bit louder than -35dB to -45dB. I had 4x SVS PB-2000s and now have dual Seaton SubMersives and never really experience much in the way of chest slam/punch till I'm in the -15dB to -10dB range (with subs calibrated a few dB hot as well).


Dynamic Volume absolutely crushes dynamics as well - turn it OFF when you want experience chest slam, turn it back on for late night viewing


A lot of chest punch/slam in movies resides (IMHO) in the 60-120hz range. This is right in the crossover region of your mains and sub, so poor integration here can rob you of some of that mid-bass slam too




EDIT * I just noticed @mthomas47 post and he mentioned he feels chest punch at lower volumes, from memory he has a PB13 Ultra nearfield to his MLP so this may actually be something for you to try as well
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post #28197 of 31562 Old 05-08-2018, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think that if you move from your current subwoofer to a PB1000, you will start to experience bass in a different way than you are currently experiencing it. That experience will take another incremental step (although not quite as large a step) when you move from a PB1000 to a PB2000. So, I definitely think that you will benefit from upgrading to a PB1000. This is one of those times where we don't don't know what we don't know. When you have a better subwoofer, you will see what I mean.

Different people experience tactile sensations in different ways. Some people are more susceptible to feeling chest punch than others. FWIW, I can feel light sensations of chest punch at low volume levels. Another factor is the amount of bass boost we may be adding. Your normal listening level is unusually low, but you are augmenting your bass with DEQ. DEQ adds up to 2.2db of bass boost for every -5db under 0.0 MV. So, at a listening level of -40, DEQ could add up to ~18db of bass at some frequencies.

If I were you, I would do two things. First, I would buy a better subwoofer. If the PB1000 is what you can afford right now, then I would start with that. Perhaps later you will be able to upgrade to the PB2000 you mentioned. The second thing I would do, once you have the new subwoofer and have recalibrated with Audyssey, is to turn off Dynamic Volume and increase your master volume level by several decibels.

Dynamic Volume can be helpful in circumstances where there are sleeping children you don't want to disturb, or something along that line. But, DV maintains a more constant volume by reducing the difference between the softer sounds and the louder ones. It compresses everything into the middle in order to create more of an average sound level. When that happens, though, you lose some of the dynamic content--the contrast between soft and loud. And, that detracts from what we hear and feel. For instance, if you want to feel more chest punch, that chest punch will accompany the sudden dynamic (louder) bass sounds in movies and in music, which DV is trying to eliminate.

We feel chest punch with a gunshot, or from the percussive strike of a bass drum, or some similar sudden bass sound. Having a better subwoofer, which is capable of playing a better frequency range with more SPL, and eliminating the compression which accompanies Dynamic Volume, will enable you to feel more of that chest punch sensation that you want. And, with a better subwoofer, you will also be able to experience low-frequency content in a way that you never have before. That is part of the "don't know what we don't know" that I referred to earlier.

I think that you will enjoy having a better subwoofer, even if your overall listening levels are never very high.

Regards,
Mike

I ordered the PB1000 and will try what you said, turn off the dynamic volume, I am hoping that I would be able to tell a significant difference between what I had and what I am getting. also, should I place it near the couch in the corner of the room?
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post #28198 of 31562 Old 05-08-2018, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sid369 View Post
I ordered the PB1000 and will try what you said, turn off the dynamic volume, I am hoping that I would be able to tell a significant difference between what I had and what I am getting. also, should I place it near the couch in the corner of the room?
You should do a sub crawl. This will determine the best placement options that would allow you to get the most out of your sub.
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post #28199 of 31562 Old 05-09-2018, 08:12 PM
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Okay so I was just watching this guys video where he discusses the difference between the PB-4000 and SB-4000. About 5:30 into the video he says that it may be possible to plug the port on the other ported sub offerings from SVS and make them essentially a sealed sub. According to the SVS site when comparing the PB-1000 (which I have) to the PB-4000 it seems the port on both is the same size. My question is can I buy one of their port plugs separately to seal my PB-1000 and would it even be recommended to do so?

Here is the video.
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post #28200 of 31562 Old 05-10-2018, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Canuck31 View Post
Okay so I was just watching this guys video where he discusses the difference between the PB-4000 and SB-4000. About 5:30 into the video he says that it may be possible to plug the port on the other ported sub offerings from SVS and make them essentially a sealed sub. According to the SVS site when comparing the PB-1000 (which I have) to the PB-4000 it seems the port on both is the same size. My question is can I buy one of their port plugs separately to seal my PB-1000 and would it even be recommended to do so?

Here is the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKFGD2pZZX4
Hi,

I wouldn't do it if I were you. You can contact SVS directly for more information on why it wouldn't be a good idea, but I will try to hit a couple of the highlights. To answer your first question, I believe that the port sizes are different (3" for the smaller sub, and 3.5" for the PB4000). ( Edit: As noted in the next post, the port sizes are both 3.5". ) But, the real issue is not the incompatibility of the port sizes, it is the incompatibility of the DSP (digital signal processing) which controls the subwoofer's operation.

The PB1000 was only designed to be a ported subwoofer, and its DSP controls the SPL that it tries to achieve at specific frequencies. It is designed to be more powerful at low-frequencies than a comparable sealed subwoofer would be. If you plug the port, without also being able to change the DSP which controls its operation, the subwoofer will probably not sound very good, and you may damage it, especially if you try to boost the volume much.

Subwoofers such as the PB4000, are designed to operate in more than one port mode. And, there is built-in DSP that you can change when you go from one port mode to another. That DSP is already programmed into the sub to make it possible to switch modes when port plugs are added or removed. But, it isn't just a matter of plugging the port with something, whether it is an SVS foam plug of the correct size, or something else.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 05-10-2018 at 07:20 AM.
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