Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 969 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #29041 of 31652 Old 09-18-2018, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Also from Canada, never seen an open box special from where I got mine, only new ones.
These guys;
http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/
Always, had great service from Mason.

The only other place available, that also sell SVS around here, that I am aware of, are these guys;
https://www.electronicsforless.ca/ma...urers/svs-188/
I hear, they also have good customer service.

The Outlet, is mostly open box, that are either flawless and got return for what ever reason, or a few that have minor flaws.
I think only the original SVS in the States, have-it.

You more than likely, be able to order from the US site, but with our money exchange difference fee + a broker fee.
You will more likely lose any money you were trying to save.

My suggestion, is to contact, both sites, that I have provided, and ask if they have any such special.
Who know, they might have one or two sub that just got return for odd reason, and want to get rid of it


Ray
You can also try these guys:

https://www.summithifi.com/collections/svs

or these guys:

https://www.quebecacoustic.com/en/br...ers-canada-en/

I have bought gear from Quebec Acoustique before, and they were excellent to deal with.

Cheers
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post #29042 of 31652 Old 09-18-2018, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
How does this SVS outlet work? Does it apply for people in Canada?

Also from Canada, never seen an open box special from where I got mine, only new ones.
These guys;
http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/
Always, had great service from Mason.

The only other place available, that also sell SVS around here, that I am aware of, are these guys;
https://www.electronicsforless.ca/ma...urers/svs-188/
I hear, they also have good customer service.

The Outlet, is mostly open box, that are either flawless and got return for what ever reason, or a few that have minor flaws.
I think only the original SVS in the States, have-it.

You more than likely, be able to order from the US site, but with our money exchange difference fee + a broker fee.
You will more likely lose any money you were trying to save.

My suggestion, is to contact, both sites, that I have provided, and ask if they have any such special.
Who know, they might have one or two sub that just got return for odd reason, and want to get rid of it[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]


Ray
Thanks-will check them out for sure!

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post #29043 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 03:10 AM
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Possible "PB-3000" spotted at Gungzhou Audio Show....?
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post #29044 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Possible "PB-3000" spotted at Gungzhou Audio Show....?
Likely assumption...nice find!

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post #29045 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 07:26 AM
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Does anyone have any thoughts on how accurate room calibration would be if buying NEW subs since they need a break in time? Wouldn’t the readings change over time and not be reflective of where the sun will be at in a month or so...

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post #29046 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Does anyone have any thoughts on how accurate room calibration would be if buying NEW subs since they need a break in time? Wouldn’t the readings change over time and not be reflective of where the sun will be at in a month or so...

Thoughts and opinions will vehemently be divided...this belongs in the category of "wire is wire," "all amps sound the same," and "speakers and subs" do or don't require break in. Yes mechanical tolerances will change over time but will the differences really matter? Arguments for both scenarios continue with no definitive answer. It's up to each of us to reach our own conclusions and let our ears determine what matters to us.
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post #29047 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Does anyone have any thoughts on how accurate room calibration would be if buying NEW subs since they need a break in time? Wouldn’t the readings change over time and not be reflective of where the sun will be at in a month or so...

Thoughts and opinions will vehemently be divided...this belongs in the category of "wire is wire," "all amps sound the same," and "speakers and subs" do or don't require break in. Yes mechanical tolerances will change over time but will the differences really matter? Arguments for both scenarios continue with no definitive answer. It's up to each of us to reach our own conclusions and let our ears determine what matters to us.
Fair point-I guess then I can only ask what your opinion is on this query on mine...

Any thoughts are appreciated..

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post #29048 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Fair point-I guess then I can only ask what your opinion is on this query on mine...

Any thoughts are appreciated..

Then I would suggest performing a calibration when new and listening to very familiar material...then again perhaps after 10, 25, and 50 hours or so. It would be interesting to hear (no pun intended) about your results...comparing the calibrated numbers with what you hear.

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post #29049 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 10:48 AM
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Ask SVS?

Speaker break-in is real but is mostly done in a few seconds, maybe minute or two, with only minor changes after that. You could repeat your cal after a day or two but chances are a miniscule change in mic placement will have a much larger change, let alone if anything else has changed between cals.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #29050 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Ask SVS?

Speaker break-in is real but is mostly done in a few seconds, maybe minute or two, with only minor changes after that. You could repeat your cal after a day or two but chances are a miniscule change in mic placement will have a much larger change, let alone if anything else has changed between cals.
In forty years of owning many different speakers the only time I noticed a real difference in sound after "break In" time was a pair of Audio Technica headphones. I almost sent them back after 15 minutes of use, as they had zero volume and flat bass. I called called Tech Support and he suggested I hook them up to a turner and play music with a lot of bass over night. The next day I played them again and WOW they WOKE up.. This was 10 years ago and the only time I have ever noticed this "break In" on speakers or wires etc . Read that one too, about speaker wire (Transmission Lines) for the Golden ears.... on stands to keep them off the floor. I have a new driver, amp and wires in my 2007 PB 13 Ultra and I could NOT hear any difference in the driver from the original one except the new 13.5" driver worked without frying a amp. YMMV on some new efficient speakers "Break in" but on a sub with a lot of power I doubt our ears will ever notice a difference.
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post #29051 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post
In forty years of owning many different speakers the only time I noticed a real difference in sound after "break In" time was a pair of Audio Technica headphones. I almost sent them back after 15 minutes of use, as they had zero volume and flat bass. I called called Tech Support and he suggested I hook them up to a turner and play music with a lot of bass over night. The next day I played them again and WOW they WOKE up.. This was 10 years ago and the only time I have ever noticed this "break In" on speakers or wires etc . Read that one too, about speaker wire (Transmission Lines) for the Golden ears.... on stands to keep them off the floor. I have a new driver, amp and wires in my 2007 PB 13 Ultra and I could NOT hear any difference in the driver from the original one except the new 13.5" driver worked without frying a amp. YMMV on some new efficient speakers "Break in" but on a sub with a lot of power I doubt our ears will ever notice a difference.
Very surprised on the headphones, that sounds strange.

I measured break-in, and we (store I worked) ran some listening tests, decades ago on various speakers and it was essentially inaudible on all of them. It was measurable after a minute or two only on a panel speaker where the -3 dB frequency shifted gradually lower over a few hours. That was entirely due to mechanical reasons that are well-known and understood. IME/IMO speaker break-in is all about the listener's ears and brains adjusting to the new speakers.

Electronic components needing break-in tells me they did a poor job of designing the bias circuits etc. and they are drifting.

As for cable break-in, cable elevators, and all that jazz -- can't top Bill the Cat's phhbttt!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #29052 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Possible "PB-3000" spotted at Gungzhou Audio Show....?
Interesting. The 4000 series was evolutionary to the 13 ultra series with similar driver, cabinet , ports and new electronics but if that is indeed a 3000 series it seems that it has a different design than the 12-Plus series that it was expected to replace. 2 ports instead of 3. The 12-plus series like the 13 ultra did have an advanced dsp with lots of configurable options directly on the plate amp with a small lcd. So given no front display seen unclear if it remains a similar style to prior gen or it’s a simpler amp like the 1000/2000 series or something else like no display but still Bluetooth/app support. I guess we’ll have to wait and find out.

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post #29053 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 01:57 PM
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SB-4000 subwoofer cone material is...paper composite.

The SB-2000 uses aluminium for the cone material of its 12" woofer. The SB-4000 uses "...reinforced and vented paper-composite cone..." Not trying to second-guess SVS engineering pros, but why not use aluminium? Metal beats paper, right? (Or, aluminium scissors cut paper.)
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post #29054 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 02:23 PM
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It's not that simple. It's not the material that matters, but the sound it makes.
There is a large number of hi-end drivers with paper cone.

This paper-composite cone is far from "normal" paper cone. It is more like kevlar or carbon fiber.

BTW, you should touch the cone on 13-Ultra / 16-Ultra / 4000. After that - you won't have any similar questions
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post #29055 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 03:07 PM
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It's not that simple. It's not the material that matters, but the sound it makes.
There is a large number of hi-end drivers with paper cone.

This paper-composite cone is far from "normal" paper cone. It is more like kevlar or carbon fiber.

BTW, you should touch the cone on 13-Ultra / 16-Ultra / 4000. After that - you won't have any similar questions
Agree. My understanding is that actual cone material is not so important. While the 4000 and 16 ultra drivers may be made with some paper you would never know. They are very heavy duty and appear to be some sort of woven composite material.
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post #29056 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 03:37 PM
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Nothing to do with the finish itself my dear friend...

It's actually beautiful !!!

Dust... I hate dust !!!

I used to have glossy speakers in the past.
And my OCD would drive me NUTS having to clean the speakers all the time.

Yup, that's the problem with glossy finish... Reflection.
My Paradigm CC-490 center speaker (like all other...) has a black ash finish but still got reflections from the Sony TV quite a bit. Had to lift it using a door stopper (single arrow) to get rid of the reflections (three arrows):





I hear you buddy

My theater room is very dark, only one light in it, and the only window is custom made to be black out.
It help a lot between dusting.

Thank for including picture, and I see you took the time to angle up the Center speaker


Ray

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post #29057 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabillyhop View Post
You can also try these guys:

https://www.summithifi.com/collections/svs

or these guys:

https://www.quebecacoustic.com/en/br...ers-canada-en/

I have bought gear from Quebec Acoustique before, and they were excellent to deal with.

Cheers

Thanks for those links

From your links, and the ones, that I have provided, they all seem to very close in prices, if not the same.


Ray

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post #29058 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 04:28 PM
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Hi all , my paradigm pw2200 seems to be having issues,as it’s not showing any output past 50hz when I run ARC with my Anthem AVM60 pre pro .
So I’m in the market for a new subwoofer for my living room . I have 4 paradigm studio 100’s doing front and surround duties ,and they are piano black ,so I’d like to match them . I don’t really want to spend much more than 2K .

I have never ran a sealed subwoofer before,and am having a tough choice what to do here . This is for music and movies .
I was originally going to buy one PB2000, but I’m almost debating to buy dual SB2000’s instead , or a single SB4000 .
I’m thinking the 13.5 inch driver in the SB4000 may give simular output of a ported 12, but possibly more accurate ?


Anyone have a preference for these different versions?

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post #29059 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Bartay View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Ask SVS?

Speaker break-in is real but is mostly done in a few seconds, maybe minute or two, with only minor changes after that. You could repeat your cal after a day or two but chances are a miniscule change in mic placement will have a much larger change, let alone if anything else has changed between cals.
In forty years of owning many different speakers the only time I noticed a real difference in sound after "break In" time was a pair of Audio Technica headphones. I almost sent them back after 15 minutes of use, as they had zero volume and flat bass. I called called Tech Support and he suggested I hook them up to a turner and play music with a lot of bass over night. The next day I played them again and WOW they WOKE up.. This was 10 years ago and the only time I have ever noticed this "break In" on speakers or wires etc . Read that one too, about speaker wire (Transmission Lines) for the Golden ears.... on stands to keep them off the floor. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG] I have a new driver, amp and wires in my 2007 PB 13 Ultra and I could NOT hear any difference in the driver from the original one except the new 13.5" driver worked without frying a amp. YMMV on some new efficient speakers "Break in" but on a sub with a lot of power I doubt our ears will ever notice a difference.

I've had the pb1000,2000,12 plus and heard a difference over time with all of them.

I've also heard huge differences in the ultra center/bookshelves and towers over time.

Admittedly this got me convinced break in was a thing. However i have not heard any difference between when i first got my 13U and now so...maybe its situational. Or i was just delusional in the first place lol.

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post #29060 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 05:07 PM
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I think it’s hard to really know without actual measurements of any given speaker. I can say subjectively with my PC-12 pluses and then with my pc-4000s they seemed to get a little louder after a week or so but who knows if that was real or perceived.

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post #29061 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delija View Post
It's not that simple. It's not the material that matters, but the sound it makes.
There is a large number of hi-end drivers with paper cone.

This paper-composite cone is far from "normal" paper cone. It is more like kevlar or carbon fiber.

BTW, you should touch the cone on 13-Ultra / 16-Ultra / 4000. After that - you won't have any similar questions
So, it is not just a less costly sub component, thanks.

Speaker makers seem ready to boast that their cones are kevlar, fiberglass, ceramic, aluminium, etc. Just don't see as many crowing about their "REAL paper composite cones!"

Last edited by audiocologne; 09-19-2018 at 05:48 PM.
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post #29062 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabillyhop View Post
You can also try these guys:

https://www.summithifi.com/collections/svs

or these guys:

https://www.quebecacoustic.com/en/br...ers-canada-en/

I have bought gear from Quebec Acoustique before, and they were excellent to deal with.

Cheers

Thanks for those links[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

From your links, and the ones, that I have provided, they all seem to very close in prices, if not the same.


Ray
I’m just glad all those places still sell the PB12+ as it is the perfect size for what I need especially since that PB 3000 seems like a downgrade by comparison..,

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post #29063 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I’m just glad all those places still sell the PB12+ as it is the perfect size for what I need especially since that PB 3000 seems like a downgrade by comparison..,
Until we see more detail and confirmation, the new sub may not be a downgrade of the PB12+ but an upgrade of the PB-2000.
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post #29064 of 31652 Old 09-19-2018, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Good! The sub crawl will help you to find the best location for your subwoofer. Something that I alluded to before is that the gain controls on every subwoofer are different. Some subs may appear to achieve higher volumes with lower gain settings, but how far the knob appears to be turned is irrelevant. All subwoofers should only be able to reach their max output when the gain control is set on max, and the PB2000 will have more max output than the JBL sub did.

First, get a good subwoofer location, and a good calibration. Then, use as much of your subwoofer gain as you need to (while keeping the trim level in the negative range) and only if you run out of bass SPL will you need to worry about sending your PB2000 back. Again, it should definitely be more powerful than the sub you had.

Regards,
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Unless you've tested the spot you have the sub in, that placement is generally not going to be the best. IMO the best place to start is in one of the front corners. You can also experiment by facing the driver in different directions too. My SC8000 is firing into the wall ( about 4" ) in the back left corner and my SVS is in the front right corner. The front right corner gave me the best results when using just one sub.
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I think that there are a couple of factors at work here. First, the JBL subwoofer is sealed, and it probably drops-off quite fast below about 40Hz. The ported PB2000 is concentrating relatively more of its available SPL in the low-frequency range. So, the PB2000 should have more low-bass "weight" and more low-bass tactile response than the JBL did. But, it may be that you are missing hearing relatively more mid-bass that the JBL had. We all react differently to what we hear and feel.

It could also be that you just hadn't turned the gain up high enough until the Hellboy II example you mentioned. I'm a little bit confused by your settings. Typically, we want to set the subwoofer gain high enough that YPAO will return a negative trim level after calibration. Keeping trim levels negative (say in the -3 to -5 range) allows the subwoofer amplifier to do the work of driving the sub. That helps to keep the subwoofer from clipping, and may also give us a little more headroom, if we use the gain control on the subwoofer to add our post-calibration boosts.

If I were you, I would make sure that the subwoofer is in the best position in the room, and then I would run YPAO again, this time shooting for a trim level of at least -3. If you need to turn-up your subwoofer's gain a little more to accomplish that, then go ahead. After calibration, if you want to add some subwoofer boost, as most people do, just add it using your gain control.

Different subwoofers will require different gain settings, so don't worry whether you are three clicks from the max or not. If you end-up maxing out your subwoofer gain (3:00 I believe) at a trim level of about -3, or lower, and you still aren't quite satisfied, then you either don't have the subwoofer positioned well in your room (Google "sub crawl") or you simply don't have enough subwoofer for your room and your listening levels. But, let's assume this is just a matter of optimum sub placement and good use of gain/trim first.

Regards,
Mike
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Originally Posted by Sask HT View Post
It's the Yamaha receiver. They are a little finicky with subs.

I set the subs gain at 12 o clock and ran YPAO. It came out around 0 DB. Then save set-up. Then turn sub gain up to 2-3 o clock.

Than on the remote turn bass up to + 3 dB.

Than play with the subwoofer trim setting on the remote. I usually have it at at least + 3 dB and sometimes as high as + 6 dB. At 6 dB I have to turn it down with some content.
So I did the sub crawl, and I still placed it in the front, facing my center sitting position below the tv. The corners in the room were obviously louder, but everywhere else sounded the same. I'm assuming that corner sound is the boomy sound you don't want from the subwoofer.
I turned the subwoofer gain to like 2 o clock, ran the YPAO again with angle setup and multi-position just like this website suggested:
https://simpleonline.blog/2017/05/23...the-right-way/

these were the results of my 5.1 setup in a 15x15' room. Subwoofer=-4.0db, FL=0.0, FR=+0.5, SL=+1.0, SR=+0.5, CEN=0.0. Angle (horizontal) Front's = 18degrees, Surround's = 100degrees. All 5 speakers were manually set to small and 80hz after YPAO ran.


I then turned the subwoofer gain all the way except 3 clicks. I also raised the center manually to +3.0.


Still can't feel the subwoofer like I would like. What's the next step, I have a subwoofer trim in the Yamaha options menu "Subwoofer/Bass" I increased it to +3.0. There is an extra bass button in the same menu, should I turn that on? What about manually increasing the -4.0db setting in the YPAO results?


I really don't want to return this sub since everyone says its so great.

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post #29065 of 31652 Old 09-20-2018, 01:47 AM
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Without proper measurements it's hard to tell where is the problem.

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post #29066 of 31652 Old 09-20-2018, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TheWarrior97 View Post
So I did the sub crawl, and I still placed it in the front, facing my center sitting position below the tv. The corners in the room were obviously louder, but everywhere else sounded the same. I'm assuming that corner sound is the boomy sound you don't want from the subwoofer.
I turned the subwoofer gain to like 2 o clock, ran the YPAO again with angle setup and multi-position just like this website suggested:
https://simpleonline.blog/2017/05/23...the-right-way/

these were the results of my 5.1 setup in a 15x15' room. Subwoofer=-4.0db, FL=0.0, FR=+0.5, SL=+1.0, SR=+0.5, CEN=0.0. Angle (horizontal) Front's = 18degrees, Surround's = 100degrees. All 5 speakers were manually set to small and 80hz after YPAO ran.


I then turned the subwoofer gain all the way except 3 clicks. I also raised the center manually to +3.0.


Still can't feel the subwoofer like I would like. What's the next step, I have a subwoofer trim in the Yamaha options menu "Subwoofer/Bass" I increased it to +3.0. There is an extra bass button in the same menu, should I turn that on? What about manually increasing the -4.0db setting in the YPAO results?


I really don't want to return this sub since everyone says its so great.

Hi,

I have several observations. Let's start with the subwoofer position. You said you tried the two front corners and that the subwoofer sounded louder there. Louder is what you are after. Then, you said that you assume that the louder sound from the corner is the "boomy" sound that you don't want from a subwoofer. I would not be so quick to make that assumption if I were you.

A corner location can make a subwoofer sound somewhat boomy, in some cases. But, that is a YMMV determination, not a rule. In many cases, corner locations work just fine. And, if a subwoofer is getting a little too much boundary gain from the two walls and floor, it is always possible to move the sub just a little out of the corner or to angle it in a way that reduces the boominess. This is just trial-and-error to find a location where the sub sounds louder, without sounding boomy to you. And, you may have to move it just a little, as described above, until you get just what you want.

So, the first thing I would do is to try the corner locations again. Please understand that if you sent the PB2000 back and bought a subwoofer that was three times as expensive, and three times as powerful, good positioning in the room would still be equally important, and a corner location might conceivably still work best. (If you are specifically looking for more chest punch, as described below, you might also try placing the subwoofer very close to your listening position.)

Second, are you still you looking for more mid-bass? When you say that you can't feel the bass the way you want, are you talking about chest punch? If so, that is mostly a matter of mid-bass volume, but you also have to play content with percussive sounds in the mid-bass range (~50Hz to 100Hz for most people). Examples of percussive (abrupt/sharp sounds with some impact) sounds would be a kick drum, or a loud bass guitar chord, or a gunshot in a movie. But, you won't feel that chest punch all the time, no matter what. It will take the right content and fairly high volume levels.

My third observation concerns your gain/trim levels. If you set your subwoofer gain at 2:00 and only got a -4 trim setting after YPAO ran its auto calibration routine, then something seems off to me. How big is your room, and is it possible that your listening position is near the mid-point of a rectangular (or square) room? If your listening position is near the mid-point of the room, it is very likely that you are getting some cancellation, and that cancellation could definitely be affecting your subwoofer volumes.

In any event, I think that you are dealing with a subwoofer location problem. Unless you are in a very big room, and located a long way from your subwoofer, a 2:00 gain setting should have given you a lower trim level than -4. So, check to see whether your listening position is near the mid-point of your room. If it is, you may need to move the listening position backwards or forwards by a foot or two. And, try locating your subwoofer back in one of the corners. Then, we'll see.

When you re-calibrate, aim for a trim setting of about -5, or -3, after you have raised your AVR trim as much as you want to. You don't want your trim control to be much higher than that in order to prevent clipping. And, it is important that you make most of your volume increases with the subwoofer amp, and not the AVR amp. As noted in an earlier post, the PB2000 will not be able to hit its maximum volume levels unless the gain control is at about the max level. So, if you still have three clicks left after you rerun YPAO--use them. Raising the subwoofer volume in your Yamaha will not give you the same results.

I hope that you will try these suggestions, and I hope that they help. After you have tried these suggestions, you might also want to tell us what kind of speakers you have, and what your speaker crossovers are after you run YPAO. There may be some suggestions that can be made there that will help. Getting good sound quality and sufficient bass in an HT system starts with good equipment. But with subwoofers especially, good placement and the appropriate use of settings and adjustments can make a lot of difference.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 09-20-2018 at 08:12 AM. Reason: Clarification
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post #29067 of 31652 Old 09-20-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
Hi all , my paradigm pw2200 seems to be having issues,as it’s not showing any output past 50hz when I run ARC with my Anthem AVM60 pre pro .
So I’m in the market for a new subwoofer for my living room . I have 4 paradigm studio 100’s doing front and surround duties ,and they are piano black ,so I’d like to match them . I don’t really want to spend much more than 2K .

I have never ran a sealed subwoofer before,and am having a tough choice what to do here . This is for music and movies .
I was originally going to buy one PB2000, but I’m almost debating to buy dual SB2000’s instead , or a single SB4000 .
I’m thinking the 13.5 inch driver in the SB4000 may give simular output of a ported 12, but possibly more accurate ?

Anyone have a preference for these different versions?

Hi,

You didn't say how big your room is, or how much low-bass you are looking for. Two PB2000's might be a very good choice, since they would give you the opportunity to position dual subwoofers in a way that would improve your overall frequency response.

My own preference would be to buy a PB4000. That would give you the opportunity to operate in either sealed, or two different ported modes, and you might enjoy having that flexibility. It would also give you far more <50Hz SPL than the sealed SB4000 would. Personally, I always think that it's a good idea to buy the most subwoofer that you can afford to (or are willing to afford right now) and then to add another one if and when you need to. "Accuracy" should not be a factor with either subwoofer.

Going with two smaller subs can work well, especially in a smaller room, where room gain helps to amplify very low-frequencies. But, starting with the maximum low-frequency extension that you think you may want, to begin with, is a better policy in my opinion. Most people discover that they want even more low-frequency extension after they upgrade, although occasionally someone is chasing more mid-bass. But again, room size as well as personal preference can be factors in that.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #29068 of 31652 Old 09-20-2018, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorTendonitis View Post
Hi all , my paradigm pw2200 seems to be having issues,as it’s not showing any output past 50hz when I run ARC with my Anthem AVM60 pre pro .
So I’m in the market for a new subwoofer for my living room . I have 4 paradigm studio 100’s doing front and surround duties ,and they are piano black ,so I’d like to match them . I don’t really want to spend much more than 2K .

I have never ran a sealed subwoofer before,and am having a tough choice what to do here . This is for music and movies .
I was originally going to buy one PB2000, but I’m almost debating to buy dual SB2000’s instead , or a single SB4000 .
I’m thinking the 13.5 inch driver in the SB4000 may give simular output of a ported 12, but possibly more accurate ?


Anyone have a preference for these different versions?

I would go dual subs...


If you are ever going to upgrade in the future get the SB4000 (or better yet a PB4000) that way you can get another one....

I had e-mailed SVS for advise. I am looking at a PB16 or a SB16 as I have an old Velodyne DD18 with the idea down the line (a year what-ever) I would get another to have a pair. I mainly listen to music so sealed is a better choice for me. But I wanted to know if in the sealed mode the PB16 would be as musical/accurate as a SB16. They said yes you can have the best of both worlds getting the PB16. Ports closed for music. Open for movies. SVS did say though the frequency response while close isn't an exact match PB16 ports closed with the SB16....

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Last edited by CygnusX2112; 09-20-2018 at 10:20 AM.
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post #29069 of 31652 Old 09-20-2018, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi,

I have several observations. Let's start with the subwoofer position. You said you tried the two front corners and that the subwoofer sounded louder there. Louder is what you are after. Then, you said that you assume that the louder sound from the corner is the "boomy" sound that you don't want from a subwoofer. I would not be so quick to make that assumption if I were you.

A corner location can make a subwoofer sound somewhat boomy, in some cases. But, that is a YMMV determination, not a rule. In many cases, corner locations work just fine. And, if a subwoofer is getting a little too much boundary gain from the two walls and floor, it is always possible to move the sub just a little out of the corner or to angle it in a way that reduces the boominess. This is just trial-and-error to find a location where the sub sounds louder, without sounding boomy to you. And, you may have to move it just a little, as described above, until you get just what you want.

So, the first thing I would do is to try the corner locations again. Please understand that if you sent the PB2000 back and bought a subwoofer that was three times as expensive, and three times as powerful, good positioning in the room would still be equally important, and a corner location might conceivably still work best. (If you are specifically looking for more chest punch, as described below, you might also try placing the subwoofer very close to your listening position.)

Second, are you still you looking for more mid-bass? When you say that you can't feel the bass the way you want, are you talking about chest punch? If so, that is mostly a matter of mid-bass volume, but you also have to play content with percussive sounds in the mid-bass range (~50Hz to 100Hz for most people). Examples of percussive (abrupt/sharp sounds with some impact) sounds would be a kick drum, or a loud bass guitar chord, or a gunshot in a movie. But, you won't feel that chest punch all the time, no matter what. It will take the right content and fairly high volume levels.

My third observation concerns your gain/trim levels. If you set your subwoofer gain at 2:00 and only got a -4 trim setting after YPAO ran its auto calibration routine, then something seems off to me. How big is your room, and is it possible that your listening position is near the mid-point of a rectangular (or square) room? If your listening position is near the mid-point of the room, it is very likely that you are getting some cancellation, and that cancellation could definitely be affecting your subwoofer volumes.

In any event, I think that you are dealing with a subwoofer location problem. Unless you are in a very big room, and located a long way from your subwoofer, a 2:00 gain setting should have given you a lower trim level than -4. So, check to see whether your listening position is near the mid-point of your room. If it is, you may need to move the listening position backwards or forwards by a foot or two. And, try locating your subwoofer back in one of the corners. Then, we'll see.

When you re-calibrate, aim for a trim setting of about -5, or -3, after you have raised your AVR trim as much as you want to. You don't want your trim control to be much higher than that in order to prevent clipping. And, it is important that you make most of your volume increases with the subwoofer amp, and not the AVR amp. As noted in an earlier post, the PB2000 will not be able to hit its maximum volume levels unless the gain control is at about the max level. So, if you still have three clicks left after you rerun YPAO--use them. Raising the subwoofer volume in your Yamaha will not give you the same results.

I hope that you will try these suggestions, and I hope that they help. After you have tried these suggestions, you might also want to tell us what kind of speakers you have, and what your speaker crossovers are after you run YPAO. There may be some suggestions that can be made there that will help. Getting good sound quality and sufficient bass in an HT system starts with good equipment. But with subwoofers especially, good placement and the appropriate use of settings and adjustments can make a lot of difference.

Regards,
Mike

I have a 15'x15' room. Unfortunately both front corners have an open doorway to the kitchen and hallway, so the corner wall on the door side is only like 4 inches. The only full corners I have are the two rear, which is where I heard it the loudest.
The YPAO was on the couch, ear height, about 6 inches from the back of the couch which is about a foot from the wall utilizing a tripod. The speakers I am using were listed in the previous post but the four corners are JBL's sp8II's and the center channel is a Klipsch rc-62ii. I am using the aventage 3070.


I'll try with a long RCA cord the back corner and recalibrate. Does the wireless kits work really well with the subs, or is the cord still the best way to go?

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post #29070 of 31652 Old 09-20-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CygnusX2112 View Post
SVS did say though the frequency response while close isn't an exact match PB16 ports closed with the SB16....

It cannot be an exact match because the difference in box volume is significant.

BTW, I can assure you that dual SB16-Ultras do fantastic job both for music and movies.


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(of course, it could be tuned even better, but this sounds very good)









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