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post #29461 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 04:54 PM
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DEQ Boost

Hi guys,

Just finished reading the guide to bass management part referring to DEQ boost below 0 MV. Just to clarify if I was to watch a movie in the evening with the wife at -15MV the DEQ would do a 6.6db boost to the sub. So if I wanted to watch it without the extra boost I would lower the sub volume by 6db.
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post #29462 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by homwerk View Post
Hi Mike,

Excellent post! That helps a lot comparing the loudness between the two subs. With that said, and I know i'm in the wrong sub for this, but is there anything else I should be looking at? I know I can get more bang for my buck from other vendors, but most of those will have forward facing subs which might not be the best for my situation. I considered 2 HSU VTF3 mk5s but I really like the look of the cylinder subs and I like the electronics of the SVS. I just don't know if the electronics are all that convenient in practice. I'd like the ability to turn down the subs when I don't need them, and I like the extra EQ I get outside of Audyssey.

I think at this point that I'd be afraid that 2 PC-4000's wouldn't be enough to fill my (almost) 5,000 cubic feet. To add to the mix, in a few years are going to be expanding that room and it will be closer to 10,000 cubic feet. That's 3-5 years away though and I'm not afraid to throw money at a problem if warranted. So maybe that's not something I should be concerned with just yet?

Thanks again!

You are very welcome! There really aren't any other cylinder or down-firing subs that would be an improvement on the PC4000's. I believe that the PC4000's will be all-around better subwoofers than the HSU VTF-15 MK2 subwoofers, much less compared to the smaller model you mentioned. I considered offering you other options in my original response, but I typically won't do that on an owner's thread unless someone specifically asks.

I'll start by reiterating that dual PC4000's will be a big improvement over what you have now, and the electronics are very cool. But, if you are really concerned that they still might not be enough, and won't be sufficiently future-proof for the even larger room that you may have in the future, then I will make a different recommendation.

The JTR Cap 2400 ULF's are more expensive subs. They don't occupy a much larger footprint than the PC4000 does, with its 16.5" diameter cylinder. I believe that they are 20.5" by 22.5" by 41" tall. But, they are, for their size and price, the most powerful commercial subwoofers currently made. Instead of the 16Hz port tune of the SVS Ultra's, these subwoofers have a 10Hz port tune, which helps to compensate for the relatively lesser room gain in a large room.

If you have any real concern with long-term capability, I would move-up to those subwoofers. You can operate with them either standing-up or lying down, facing forward or turned away. Subwoofer frequencies radiate omnidirectionally, anyway. Here is Data-Bass's review and measurement results. Look at the Static Graphs to compare numbers. These JTR ported subwoofers also generate more low-bass TR than any other ported subwoofers with which I am familiar. Below ~30Hz, the TR may have a significant impact on how we experience the special effects in movies. That is especially the case if someone is on a concrete floor.

https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=148

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #29463 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigzee3 View Post
Hi guys,

Just finished reading the guide to bass management part referring to DEQ boost below 0 MV. Just to clarify if I was to watch a movie in the evening with the wife at -15MV the DEQ would do a 6.6db boost to the sub. So if I wanted to watch it without the extra boost I would lower the sub volume by 6db.

Hi,

Yes, you could do that, or you could just turn-off DEQ, and keep the +6db subwoofer boost. That would have about the same effect. Or you could use an RLO setting of -5 to reduce the effect of DEQ by 2.2db, or a setting of -10 to reduce it by 4.4db, at that same master volume. Each of those methods might give you similar results, with respect to reducing the total amount of bass, but with some subtle differences in what you might hear. Some people might be more aware of those subtle differences, and others less aware of them, so no one else can really tell you which of those methods is going to be better for you.

Just remember, that you can use DEQ or not, just as you choose. And, you can add subwoofer boosts on top of DEQ, or not, just as you choose. In my opinion, one of the hardest things to do is to experiment with different settings, and then to just trust our own ears as to what we prefer. But, once we start to do that, it is very liberating!

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #29464 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
IIRC, in interview some time ago Gary Yucobian, SVS President, said he had run a cylinder sub lying down behind his couch.

Did not know, about this one, thanks for the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
+1 I recall either Gary or Ed mentioning the same thing. I believe the "amp up" orientation is for more efficient heat dissipation. I also recall one member positioning his cylinder lying down in the front of his theater directly under his screen with no adverse effects. Since optimum subwoofer performance is primarily location, location, location, the only comment I would make is that locating behind the couch/sofa may not be the best location for best performance. On the other hand, many of us may not have placement options elsewhere due to aesthetic choices, existing furniture, room configuration, WAF, etc. and must accept compromises.

+1, also good info for the amp orientation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Anyone have experience or currently lying 1 or Duel PC subs on the ground? I was thinking of doing this to concord them better along the back edges of the sectional where it meets the back wall and just leave enough room for a couple PC2000 lying on either end along back of couch.

This should sound be same whether lying flat or standing up right? Anyone actually have experience?

Thanks in advance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks for the feedback-is this what you have done or doing?

Any effect on performance?
It shouldn't, as gene4ht in one of the above quotes, location within the room, is what matter. Not the orientation of the woofer driver. And also the amp orientation is very good point.


Ray
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post #29465 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are very welcome! There really aren't any other cylinder or down-firing subs that would be an improvement on the PC4000's. I believe that the PC4000's will be all-around better subwoofers than the HSU VTF-15 MK2 subwoofers, much less compared to the smaller model you mentioned. I considered offering you other options in my original response, but I typically won't do that on an owner's thread unless someone specifically asks.

I'll start by reiterating that dual PC4000's will be a big improvement over what you have now, and the electronics are very cool. But, if you are really concerned that they still might not be enough, and won't be sufficiently future-proof for the even larger room that you may have in the future, then I will make a different recommendation.

The JTR Cap 2400 ULF's are more expensive subs. They don't occupy a much larger footprint than the PC4000 does, with its 16.5" diameter cylinder. I believe that they are 20.5" by 22.5" by 41" tall. But, they are, for their size and price, the most powerful commercial subwoofers currently made. Instead of the 16Hz port tune of the SVS Ultra's, these subwoofers have a 10Hz port tune, which helps to compensate for the relatively lesser room gain in a large room.

If you have any real concern with long-term capability, I would move-up to those subwoofers. You can operate with them either standing-up or lying down, facing forward or turned away. Subwoofer frequencies radiate omnidirectionally, anyway. Here is Data-Bass's review and measurement results. Look at the Static Graphs to compare numbers. These JTR ported subwoofers also generate more low-bass TR than any other ported subwoofers with which I am familiar. Below ~30Hz, the TR may have a significant impact on how we experience the special effects in movies. That is especially the case if someone is on a concrete floor.

https://data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=148

Regards,
Mike
That JTR is amazing subwoofer and I might be in the mind frame to get one at some point in the future. But for now I think it's a little more than what I'm looking for. I think I'd like to stick with 1 or 2 PC-4000's for the short term if anyone thinks it/they would fit the bill in my 5,000 cubic foot room. I also considered the newer Outlaw Audio Ultra-13 but I think the SVS might be better for me too.

Are there any SVS sales on Black Friday coming up that anyone knows about? I saw SVS had a PC-4000 in the outlet but don't know if waiting for Black Friday would be better.
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post #29466 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 07:08 PM
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Another thought is doing multiple PC-2000s too. Is that a good option? I think they are rated similar to my current Outlaw only I'd be happy getting 2-3 of them right away.
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post #29467 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by homwerk View Post
Another thought is doing multiple PC-2000s too. Is that a good option? I think they are rated similar to my current Outlaw only I'd be happy getting 2-3 of them right away.

You seem to be all over the place on what you are thinking. First, PC4000's; then something even more powerful than PC4000's; and now something less powerful.

If I were you, I would take some time to try to figure out my goals. What is it exactly that you are looking for? The Ultra's will have more low-frequency extension and SPL than the PC2000's, and they are better quality subwoofers with more features and more user-adjustability. Ideally, you would start with two of the PC4000's, and just as with the PC2000's, you could always add additional multiples later if you wanted to. (You do know that SVS offers a free 45-day trial period on all of its subwoofers?)

Subwoofers which go lower in frequency, with more SPL, will have a different sound and feel than your current Outlaw sub, or even the PC2000's. That extra bass weight is more important to some people than it is to others, especially for action movies. When you asked about even more powerful subs than the PC4000's, I mentioned the Cap 2400's, with an even lower port tune. That is one way to think about ported subs.

The PC2000's are tuned lower, with more power than your Outlaw. The PC4000's are tuned lower, with more power than the PC2000's. And, the JTR subs are tuned lower, with more power than the PC4000's. In each case, "power" doesn't simply refer to amplifier power. It is a combination of driver size, motor strength, excursion, amplifier, cabinet volume, port tune, and DSP, which determines at what frequencies a subwoofer will be powerful.

As the lowest frequencies are harder to achieve, especially in larger rooms, subwoofers have to be more "powerful" to play those frequencies with real authority. And, we have to pay extra for that. Once you decide what you are really looking for, that your Outlaw doesn't give you now, you will be in a much better position to make a good choice. Personally, I think that your first instinct was correct. I believe that a pair of PC4000's would be an excellent solution for you. And, if not, send them back for a refund and get something even more powerful. I really wouldn't go down from the PC4000's, though, based on everything you have said.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #29468 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homwerk View Post
Another thought is doing multiple PC-2000s too. Is that a good option? I think they are rated similar to my current Outlaw only I'd be happy getting 2-3 of them right away.
I’ve had the equivalent of dual PC-2000’s (dual PB-2000’s) in my 4800cf space and was never disappointed with their performance. If you are considering multiple (3-4) 2000 series subs, you will gain additional SPL but more importantly much better FR coverage over your seating area. I highly recommend utilizing SVS’s 45 day trial period to audition dual 2000’s and dual 4000’s. It will then become immediately very clear what will meet your needs, wants, and expectations. Good luck with your decision!
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post #29469 of 31369 Old 11-05-2018, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You seem to be all over the place on what you are thinking. First, PC4000's; then something even more powerful than PC4000's; and now something less powerful.

If I were you, I would take some time to try to figure out my goals. What is it exactly that you are looking for? The Ultra's will have more low-frequency extension and SPL than the PC2000's, and they are better quality subwoofers with more features and more user-adjustability. Ideally, you would start with two of the PC4000's, and just as with the PC2000's, you could always add additional multiples later if you wanted to. (You do know that SVS offers a free 45-day trial period on all of its subwoofers?)

Subwoofers which go lower in frequency, with more SPL, will have a different sound and feel than your current Outlaw sub, or even the PC2000's. That extra bass weight is more important to some people than it is to others, especially for action movies. When you asked about even more powerful subs than the PC4000's, I mentioned the Cap 2400's, with an even lower port tune. That is one way to think about ported subs.

The PC2000's are tuned lower, with more power than your Outlaw. The PC4000's are tuned lower, with more power than the PC2000's. And, the JTR subs are tuned lower, with more power than the PC4000's. In each case, "power" doesn't simply refer to amplifier power. It is a combination of driver size, motor strength, excursion, amplifier, cabinet volume, port tune, and DSP, which determines at what frequencies a subwoofer will be powerful.

As the lowest frequencies are harder to achieve, especially in larger rooms, subwoofers have to be more "powerful" to play those frequencies with real authority. And, we have to pay extra for that. Once you decide what you are really looking for, that your Outlaw doesn't give you now, you will be in a much better position to make a good choice. Personally, I think that your first instinct was correct. I believe that a pair of PC4000's would be an excellent solution for you. And, if not, send them back for a refund and get something even more powerful. I really wouldn't go down from the PC4000's, though, based on everything you have said.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks again, Mike. I'm just trying to gather all the info up front and make a good decision. I have jumped around before today thinking i was going to get 2 pc-4000s, then 2 Hsu vtf3 mk5s, then a single JTR 118, etc. I think any of the subs mentioned would be great, but I'm stuck thinking I'd really like to try SVS in my house. I think it comes down to not liking the idea of a front-facing sub until my kids are a bit older and making sure that the PC-4000 would fit the bill.
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post #29470 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 09:42 AM
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Official SVS Owners/Support Thread.





Looks like I have some “work” to do over the next several days! Anyone want to come help me get these beauties into my basement?????


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post #29471 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 11:15 AM
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Wow those are very significantly bigger than my SB16s! Good luck on that adventure!
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post #29472 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt2026 View Post
IIRC, in interview some time ago Gary Yucobian, SVS President, said he had run a cylinder sub lying down behind his couch.

Did not know, about this one, thanks for the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene4ht View Post
+1 I recall either Gary or Ed mentioning the same thing. I believe the "amp up" orientation is for more efficient heat dissipation. I also recall one member positioning his cylinder lying down in the front of his theater directly under his screen with no adverse effects. Since optimum subwoofer performance is primarily location, location, location, the only comment I would make is that locating behind the couch/sofa may not be the best location for best performance. On the other hand, many of us may not have placement options elsewhere due to aesthetic choices, existing furniture, room configuration, WAF, etc. and must accept compromises.

+1, also good info for the amp orientation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Anyone have experience or currently lying 1 or Duel PC subs on the ground? I was thinking of doing this to concord them better along the back edges of the sectional where it meets the back wall and just leave enough room for a couple PC2000 lying on either end along back of couch.

This should sound be same whether lying flat or standing up right? Anyone actually have experience?

Thanks in advance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks for the feedback-is this what you have done or doing?

Any effect on performance?
It shouldn't, as gene4ht in one of the above quotes, location within the room, is what matter. Not the orientation of the woofer driver. And also the amp orientation is very good point.


Ray
So aside from hearing it can be done...does anyone actually do it from the forum??

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post #29473 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 11:32 AM
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So aside from hearing it can be done...does anyone actually do it from the forum??

Yes, I have known several people who have laid cylinder subs on their sides. I considered operating one of mine that way several years ago, but ultimately went in another direction. Bass frequencies radiate in all directions, so the subwoofer could care less whether it is standing-up or lying down. I also know of several people who have laid tall subs (such as a Rythmik FV25HP, or a JTR Cap 2400ULF) on their sides.

If anything, you may get slightly more boundary gain that way, from having so much of the cabinet volume in direct contact with the floor. Presumably, in most cases, the subwoofer would still be fairly close to a wall. It could slightly increase the room gain without the boominess that sometimes occurs when a subwoofer is placed in a corner. That's three surfaces in contact with a sub when you put it in a corner. Several people have reported a slight but measurable increase in low-frequency SPL from laying tall subs on their sides.

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
So aside from hearing it can be done...does anyone actually do it from the forum??

Yes, I have known several people who have laid cylinder subs on their sides. I considered operating one of mine that way several years ago, but ultimately went in another direction. Bass frequencies radiate in all directions, so the subwoofer could care less whether it is standing-up or lying down. I also know of several people who have laid tall subs (such as a Rythmik FV25HP, or a JTR Cap 2400ULF) on their sides.

If anything, you may get slightly more boundary gain that way, from having so much of the cabinet volume in direct contact with the floor. Presumably, in most cases, the subwoofer would still be fairly close to a wall. It could slightly increase the room gain without the boominess that sometimes occurs when a subwoofer is placed in a corner. That's three surfaces in contact with a sub when you put it in a corner. Several people have reported a slight but measurable increase in low-frequency SPL from laying tall subs on their sides.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks for the response Mike

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Hello, What more can I do to add a little more LFE to my Duel SB16 Ultra's after running ARC-2? All calibrations were done using ARC from my Anthem receiver. Output already sounds amazing above 35hrz with a room size under 1500 sq ft. But, I'm looking for a little more depth with frequency below 35htz for watching movies. The PB's were not an option because of limited space. Sub 1 is located in the front left corner of the room and sub 2 to the right of the center channel 11ft away. These are the only two places I can place the subs. Thanks for any info.
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post #29476 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 01:36 PM
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Hello, What more can I do to add a little more LFE to my Duel SB16 Ultra's after running ARC-2? All calibrations were done using ARC from my Anthem receiver. Output already sounds amazing above 35hrz with a room size under 1500 sq ft. But, I'm looking for a little more depth with frequency below 35htz for watching movies. The PB's were not an option because of limited space. Sub 1 is located in the front left corner of the room and sub 2 to the right of the center channel 11ft away. These are the only two places I can place the subs. Thanks for any info.

Hi,

To be honest with you, I'm not sure that there is a good way for you to do this without going to some trouble. I believe that there is some pre-programmed PEQ that lets you add some boost at about 27Hz, but I'm not sure that will be low enough to help you very much. Another method would be to order a measurement mic and download REW on a laptop. Then, you could buy a miniDSP to add a house curve at the specific frequencies you like. (There may be a way to add something even lower in frequency with the internal DSP of the SB16's, but if so I am not aware of it.)

If you are looking for more <35Hz bass, then you may also want some additional low-bass tactile response. If you are on a concrete floor, this next alternative may have some extra appeal for you. Why not consider trading your SB16's for a pair of PC4000's? The PC4000's have a footprint of only 16.5" so they will take up even less floor area than the SB16's. And, a single PC4000 will have far more low-frequency SPL than an SB16. A pair of them would really light you up.

If you are only interested in a "slight" increase in <35Hz SPL, you may be able to tweak your existing subs with a miniDSP, and the ability to measure what you are doing. If you would like something more significant than that, then I would consider the PC4000's. Even the 20Hz mode would be able to generate a lot more <35Hz SPL than your current subs. And, the extended mode would be pretty wild in a 1500^3 room.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.

Last edited by mthomas47; 11-06-2018 at 01:47 PM.
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post #29477 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 02:01 PM
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One of the things that many people seem to overlook is the quality of bass. I had a chance to compare PC-2000 and PC-4000. The room was small , so the power output didn't matter.
Yet the PC-4000 sounded so much better...a lot cleaner with more foundation.
Another thing is that SB series aren't that great in HT. They do well in music blending with speakers but two SB-2000 provide far less oomph than a single PB-2000 in HT.
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post #29478 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Grebmorts View Post
Hello, What more can I do to add a little more LFE to my Duel SB16 Ultra's after running ARC-2? All calibrations were done using ARC from my Anthem receiver. Output already sounds amazing above 35hrz with a room size under 1500 sq ft. But, I'm looking for a little more depth with frequency below 35htz for watching movies. The PB's were not an option because of limited space. Sub 1 is located in the front left corner of the room and sub 2 to the right of the center channel 11ft away. These are the only two places I can place the subs. Thanks for any info.
1500 sq ft or 1500 cu ft?

I assume it's 1500 cu ft. There is no chance that dual SB16-Ultra cannot "shake" so small room. Something is very wrong.

Could you please attach ARC measurements of subwoofers?

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post #29479 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mdbunting View Post




Looks like I have some “work” to do over the next several days! Anyone want to come help me get these beauties into my basement?????


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Awesome man-Congrats! I've also took the plunge and am waiting for dual brand new PB 4000's to be delivered. Shipping to California is going to take until Tuesday though Can't wait! Could I ask if you purchased brand new or did you buy from the outlet? Outlet seems like an awesome deal and savings, but I guess it's just me as I always want my new toys unused and brand new....

I think it's a little OCD I have but I just worry that if I bought used, I don't know what I purchased had done it or if it was abused. Oh well...SVS has awesome customer service and their Bill of rights is a huge reason I bought SVS! I hope the PB 4000's do the trick in my home, but if they don't, there's always the option to upgrade to dual PB 16 U's!
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post #29480 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 03:39 PM
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1500 cu ft. And, I do get plenty of earth shaking response with listening to music from the two subs. I origanally came from using ported subs, so maybe it's the differences between ported vs sealed that i'm hearing when watching movies, and just not quite used to yet.. . I had one of the origanal PC ultras from 2004 but it lacked with tightness when playing music. I'm very amazed with output and headroom the two SB's give. Just searching on if i'm missing something. BTW, The PC worked good, just never cared for the cylinder subs. WAF you know.
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post #29481 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 03:41 PM
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A lot can be seen from measurements and also from ARC settings, so please provide screenshots.

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post #29482 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 04:56 PM
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I no longer have a working laptop. Hard drive crashed after calibrating first sub months ago. I received the second subwoofer last week and just plugged it in without recalibrating . So i'm using my second SB16 ultra in replace of my PC ultra with the origanal calibration from my ARC. In the process of borrowing a laptop just to recalibrate with new second subwoofer.
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post #29483 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdbunting View Post




Looks like I have some “work” to do over the next several days! Anyone want to come help me get these beauties into my basement?????


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I would if I were living close to you, all the work require to set them-up. Is all part of the fun, in this Hobby.
Congratulation, on those awesome new toys, of your

Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandborn View Post
Awesome man-Congrats! I've also took the plunge and am waiting for dual brand new PB 4000's to be delivered. Shipping to California is going to take until Tuesday though Can't wait! Could I ask if you purchased brand new or did you buy from the outlet? Outlet seems like an awesome deal and savings, but I guess it's just me as I always want my new toys unused and brand new....

I think it's a little OCD I have but I just worry that if I bought used, I don't know what I purchased had done it or if it was abused. Oh well...SVS has awesome customer service and their Bill of rights is a huge reason I bought SVS! I hope the PB 4000's do the trick in my home, but if they don't, there's always the option to upgrade to dual PB 16 U's!
Congratulation is also in order, those are also very good, and positive you will enjoy them.
They are the replacements, of my present dual PB13 (tune at 20Hz). And mine never let me down or show a sign of stress, unlike my TT, that did bottom out a few time

Enjoy



Ray

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post #29484 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Subdusted View Post
One of the things that many people seem to overlook is the quality of bass. I had a chance to compare PC-2000 and PC-4000. The room was small , so the power output didn't matter.
Yet the PC-4000 sounded so much better...a lot cleaner with more foundation.
Another thing is that SB series aren't that great in HT. They do well in music blending with speakers but two SB-2000 provide far less oomph than a single PB-2000 in HT.
I would think/have heard that Duel PC2000 will be sufficient in a 1500 sq ft room and it goes almost as low as the 4000 and because it is a smaller room you are paying a lot more then what the SPL and wattage difference would translate to effects

A smaller space (like mine 13x17x7.5 with an opening to another room) will suffice with PC2000 pair for tactile feel and LFE

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post #29485 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I would think/have heard that Duel PC2000 will be sufficient in a 1500 sq ft room and it goes almost as low as the 4000 and because it is a smaller room you are paying a lot more then what the SPL and wattage difference would translate to effects

A smaller space (like mine 13x17x7.5 with an opening to another room) will suffice with PC2000 pair for tactile feel and LFE

By any chance, is your room over a concrete floor?
Even my dual PB13, will not do much for that, in my room over a concrete floor, with two heavy carpet.
I have remedy this by adding a couple TT, under the main two seat;
Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide

For the LFE, I personally stick to port subs, over seal for this reason, after trying both versions years ago.
Just my preference


Ray

Last edited by darthray; 11-06-2018 at 06:31 PM.
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post #29486 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdbunting View Post




Looks like I have some “work” to do over the next several days! Anyone want to come help me get these beauties into my basement?????


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Congrats. You won't be disappointed. Next year if I can come up with the $$ I wanna get a 2nd PB16 Ultra. I bought one little over a month ago. My Woofer Havok still wants to battle the sub woofer to see whos the alpha....

An easy way if you don't have help and you don't have hardwood steps or nice carpet you don't wanna nail through. Get some 2 X 4's and nail them to the steps then slide the cartons down. Getting them down is a lot easier then getting them up the steps....
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post #29487 of 31369 Old 11-06-2018, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I would think/have heard that Duel PC2000 will be sufficient in a 1500 sq ft room and it goes almost as low as the 4000 and because it is a smaller room you are paying a lot more then what the SPL and wattage difference would translate to effects

A smaller space (like mine 13x17x7.5 with an opening to another room) will suffice with PC2000 pair for tactile feel and LFE

By any chance, is your room over a concrete floor?
Even my dual PB13, will not do much for that, in my room over a concrete floor, with two heavy carpet.
I have remedy this by adding a couple TT, under the main two seat;
Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide

For the LFE, I personally stick to port subs, over seal for this reason, after trying both versions years ago.
Just my preference[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]


Ray
It’s a basement so yes concrete underneath but will be laminate over top of that and maybe a area rug in middle of room.

You are saying that 2 Duel PC2000 are not gonna be good LFE and tactile???

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post #29488 of 31369 Old 11-07-2018, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grebmorts View Post
I no longer have a working laptop. Hard drive crashed after calibrating first sub months ago. I received the second subwoofer last week and just plugged it in without recalibrating . So i'm using my second SB16 ultra in replace of my PC ultra with the origanal calibration from my ARC. In the process of borrowing a laptop just to recalibrate with new second subwoofer.
You have just answered your own question
You cannot do that and expect good results.
You need to recalibrate your system.

Please let us know how they sound after ARC recalibration.

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post #29489 of 31369 Old 11-07-2018, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdbunting View Post




Looks like I have some “work” to do over the next several days! Anyone want to come help me get these beauties into my basement?????


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Congrats!! I love my Duals

A buddy from work showed up when mine were delivered and helped me move them in the house, but then had to run. He was there for like 15 minutes total. But, you know what? The box design and handle placement is excellent, they don't actually feel as heavy as they are.......would have taken more time, but I could have done it solo. I actually had more trouble moving my previous PC12 Plus's.

Also, I had the SoundPath feet and furniture sliders already on hand when my subs showed up. I used Microfiber cloths as mitts when unboxing, rolled them on their side (but still on that white fabric liner they're packaged with) to install the isolation feet, then onto the furniture sliders immediately after. All the unboxing and setup I did solo.

As the also-owner of Dual PB-16's, all I can say is be prepared for vibrating couches, rattling pictures, and stuff falling off tables

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post #29490 of 31369 Old 11-07-2018, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
It’s a basement so yes concrete underneath but will be laminate over top of that and maybe a area rug in middle of room.

You are saying that 2 Duel PC2000 are not gonna be good LFE and tactile???

Hi,

Everyone's experiences and preferences are a little bit different. I think it's important to repeat that to ourselves until we really start to believe it. It's easy for us to understand if we apply that statement to things like food, or our tastes in music, or in movies, or in automobiles. But, we somehow expect other peoples' experiences and preferences with respect to subwoofers, and with respect to bass, to parallel our own. In many cases, other peoples' experiences and preferences are barely even relevant to our own.

No one else has any idea whether dual PC2000 are going to have enough low-bass and TR for you or not. That depends on you as much as it does on your room. Concrete doesn't resonate (vibrate) with low-frequencies in the same way that a wood floor over a crawl space, or on an upper floor does. Laminate and carpet don't change that. On the other hand, some people aren't really looking for much TR to begin with. How much salad dressing do you like on your salad? How much salt do you like on something? How much low-bass TR do you prefer?

Only you can determine whether the two PC2000's will give you exactly what you are looking for in your room. And, no else will be able to accurately predict that in advance. We can only offer you general guidance, and suggestions for what to try. But, that's where the advantage of having free-trial periods comes in. You can decide for yourself what works and what doesn't.

I apologize for restating things that may seem obvious in this post, but they really aren't obvious. You can see that from comments people make all the time. I know people in >5000^3 rooms who seem perfectly happy with one small 12" sealed subwoofer. And, I know people in <1500^3 rooms (this is literally true) who still can't get enough of what they want with dual ported 18" subs. We will all discover together whether the dual PC 2000's give you exactly what you are looking for. I'm hoping that they will!

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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