Someone grabbed all the piano gloss PB16s before I even had a chance...

I had posted this question as a new thread as well, I apologize for that. I just responded on that thread with these exact same thoughts that the 3000 series looks very interesting, a bit bigger and heavier than the 2000 series, but too new to have been discussed or reviewed yet. The attraction of the rels is the compactness and looks, pretty cool and reputation for making fast accurate subs. The downside is -6db at 28hz, yikes, barely a sub more a woofer. Appreciate the input from everyone here on the svs forum! Being an older member, looking to have BB deliver and put sub where it belongs, can’t deal with very heavy boxes at my front door!l. Regards. Ned.

Another option, from the quote below yours.


Thanks, for adding another option for the member, quoted above yours

My previous post, is more gear toward a stand, a few inches from a wall. And if knock over, the stand would be leaning a little.


Ray

That a bummer

Maybe another chance will show-up in the future, since Christmas is around the corner.


Ray

Sadly we don’t have earthquake (pads) in Canada so I guess I’m SOL

I wish Canadians had access to the SVS outlet 😞

Hey guys I just picked up a pair of JBL 308P powered monitors. have a Denon AVR-X3300W with preouts and a pair of PB2000's. And I have a question regarding the PB-2000 sub that I'd like to pair with these ---How do i go about connecting my SVS subs with these monitors? I kind of want to use these as a second zone in the same room, just a different eco-system, if you will, while playing PC games on the desktop. (One of the subs is in the rear of the room where the desktop is located and I dont need to send out multiple signals simoltenouesly, we will be using one or the other.)



I was wondering if it was possible to maintain the LFE connection to the AVR for the surround sound, while also connecting them via preout and thus be able to toggle from one sourceto the other? But first thing's first, i guess, I dont even know how to connect them and use them with these monitors. Any help is greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance.


Best regards,


Max

Hi everyone, I also posted this in the subwoofer section.

So I received my SVS NSD today and am having a few issues. First off this is what I've done for set up:
YPAO calibration on Yamaha 683 receiver (i was just told that yamaha may have low voltage for subs
Set fronts to small, all speakers to 80hz
gain to 12 o'clock (half way)
disabled crossover on sub
set phase to zero.

Here are some issues, the sub is considerably quieter if I don't use an RCA Y-cable. I thought the SVS did not need a y-cable. I was shocked how much different the sound was without one. Then I've placed some test movies, my room is small 11x10 and the sub is in the front left corner.

First off I was excited to try U571 blu-ray with DTS-HD. I heard how it will make my room shake with the depth charge scene. I was very underwhelmed to say the least, very little bass.

John Wick rice club scene, the bass from the gunshots was tight and sounded pretty good, however not much deep bass while in the club.

Top Gun- bass from jets seemed lacking.

Terminator 2- decent bass but nothing i'd jump for joy about.

Dark Knight- decent bass with quick gun shots, but not much deep bass

My previous sub was a polk psw10, placed in the same spot and for what it was, it sounded decent. So far I'm disappointed with the SVS, any suggestions? Thanks!

Yahama receivers are infamous for low voltage out of their sub out (and pre-outs too), this has been the case for the past 7-8 years. It's nothing new. Yes, use the Y-cable or turn up the gain on the back of the sub itself.

It's the same thing I used for my older SB2000s and I'm still using the Y cable for my Rythmik FV15HPs. In fact on my SB2000s, I turned up the gain to 2 o'clock in addition to the Y-cable. It's not the sub, it's simply the receiver. As to why Yamaha receivers has low voltage out? They have vague reasons, but one of them is that most people like putting their sub trims into the positives - which can often clip the signal. By lowering the voltage out, people can put their sub trims higher into the positives with less risk of that happening - at least on Yamaha receivers.

Best practice is still to get a sub trim reading below -5db though when calibrating though.

Thanks, ill give it a try tomorrow

Sorry but just to clarify, the connection between the Soundblaster and SB2000 will be with a single male stereo RCA, and the connection between the SB2000 and A5 will be a dual male stereo RCA?

Currently my connection from Soundblaster to A5 is via dual male stereo TRS cables (so I'll in place buy dual male stereo RCA cables).

From your suggestion (if correct as above), so a single RCA cable is used b/w the sound card and sub, so only either of the L or R line-in input on the SB2000 needs to be be used (not both)? Even though one input is used, this will be a stereo signal input into the SB2000? Which can then output a stereo signal to the A5s? This would mean I'd need a dual (rather than single) RCA cable from SB2000 to A5 right (since A5 has 2 inputs for L and R channel)?

Thank you! Just really trying to wrap my head around this.

+1

Just to add to the above quote from Ben Tan.

Your previous sub, was more likely concentrating on lower mid frequencies, probably around 40-60Hz.
Lesser subs, do that to sound more impressive, since they have difficulty playing at the lower ones.
Happen often when someone, move from a lesser sub, to a more linear one (as been more flat).
Just use the Y-cable for the Yamaha lack of output, and raise your bass level to your preference, after calibration.


Ray

You'll need a cable with TRS on one end, and RCA male on the other, stereo. Like I said, I don't know what connector the soundblaster has, but yes, it needs to carry a stereo signal with dual RCA plugs into the SVS.

I was assuming something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMR-206-...+stereo+to+trs
But, since I don't know the connection to the SB, I wasn't sure.
If I'm understanding what you are currently using, it sounds like you need a dual cable with TRS on one end, and male RCA on the other.
Maybe a picture of what you currently use to hook the SB up to the A5 would clear things up.

Your previous sub, was more likely concentrating on lower mid frequencies, probably around 40-60Hz.
Lesser subs, do that to sound more impressive, since they have difficulty playing at the lower ones.
Happen often when someone, move from a lesser sub, to a more linear one (as been more flat).
Just use the Y-cable for the Yamaha lack of output, and raise your bass level to your preference, after calibration.


Ray[/QUOTE]

Thanks for everyone’s suggestions. I’ll have to try this evening. I guess my concern is that I’m not getting the deep bass, which is one of the reasons I upgraded.

I wonder how much issue the Yamaha is, It’s still within the return window.

Thanks for everyone’s suggestions. I’ll have to try this evening. I guess my concern is that I’m not getting the deep bass, which is one of the reasons I upgraded.

I wonder how much issue the Yamaha is, It’s still within the return window.[/QUOTE]




Hi,

Opinions vary regarding which AVR's and room correction systems sound the best, and I consider that strictly a YMMV issue. Denon/Marantz AVR's have Audyssey, which does more low-frequency EQ than most versions of YPAO. I honestly don't know whether that is a factor in this case or not.

What is definitely a factor is your subwoofer volume, and that's what I would start with if I were you. After you calibrate your audio system with YPAO, all of your channels, including your subwoofer, will be set to play the same volume at the MLP. That is intentionally part of the calibration process. After calibration, it is necessary for almost everyone to raise the volume of his subwoofer in order to hear bass frequencies properly. And, how much bass we like is also a matter of personal preference.

After a calibration, an SB12-NSD would be playing at the same volume as an SB16 Ultra would. In order to hear more bass, and especially more low-bass, it would be necessary to turn-up the volume on either sub. The SB16 could just produce more overall output, especially at lower frequencies, allowing you to turn it up more. So, just increase your subwoofer volume while keeping your AVR trim at about -3 or -5.

You didn't say whether your new subwoofer is an SB12 or a PB12, and that could also make a difference. Your Polk subwoofer was ported, and it would be able to produce comparatively more low-bass SPL, and corresponding tactile response (TR), than a comparable sealed sub would. So, if you bought an SB12-NSD, you might be happier with a PB12. If you bought a PB12, however, it should be capable of producing much more low-bass SPL and TR than the Polk could. So again, just turn it up using the subwoofer gain, while keeping your trim level slightly in negative numbers.

Note: The use of a Y-connector for Yamaha AVR's is strictly to help the subwoofer come on automatically from Auto mode. As long as your subwoofer is coming on appropriately, with bass content, there is no need to worry about how much voltage is coming from the AVR. The only question is how much volume you want the subwoofer to produce. Properly located, a ported SVS subwoofer should run rings around the 50 watt 10" Polk.

Regards,
Mike

Hi,

Opinions vary regarding which AVR's and room correction systems sound the best, and I consider that strictly a YMMV issue. Denon/Marantz AVR's have Audyssey, which does more low-frequency EQ than most versions of YPAO. I honestly don't know whether that is a factor in this case or not.

What is definitely a factor is your subwoofer volume, and that's what I would start with if I were you. After you calibrate your audio system with YPAO, all of your channels, including your subwoofer, will be set to play the same volume at the MLP. That is intentionally part of the calibration process. After calibration, it is necessary for almost everyone to raise the volume of his subwoofer in order to hear bass frequencies properly. And, how much bass we like is also a matter of personal preference.

After a calibration, an SB12-NSD would be playing at the same volume as an SB16 Ultra would. In order to hear more bass, and especially more low-bass, it would be necessary to turn-up the volume on either sub. The SB16 could just produce more overall output, especially at lower frequencies, allowing you to turn it up more. So, just increase your subwoofer volume while keeping your AVR trim at about -3 or -5.

You didn't say whether your new subwoofer is an SB12 or a PB12, and that could also make a difference. Your Polk subwoofer was ported, and it would be able to produce comparatively more low-bass SPL, and corresponding tactile response (TR), than a comparable sealed sub would. So, if you bought an SB12-NSD, you might be happier with a PB12. If you bought a PB12, however, it should be capable of producing much more low-bass SPL and TR than the Polk could. So again, just turn it up using the subwoofer gain, while keeping your trim level slightly in negative numbers.

Note: The use of a Y-connector for Yamaha AVR's is strictly to help the subwoofer come on automatically from Auto mode. As long as your subwoofer is coming on appropriately, with bass content, there is no need to worry about how much voltage is coming from the AVR. The only question is how much volume you want the subwoofer to produce. Properly located, a ported SVS subwoofer should run rings around the 50 watt 10" Polk.

Regards,
Mike[/QUOTE]

Thanks Mike,

First off I have the PB12 NSD(ported). I guess I’ve just been reading to keep the sub gain at half way. When setting up. I’ll try at 2/3’s like some have suggested and then calibrate. With the gain set at 50%, after calibration, it’s sets the sub at -9.5db and I’ve raised it to 0.

I really thought i’d Be able to “feel the bass” in scenes like the depth charge in U571. With U571, the sound from the highs and mid range of the center and L/R speakers stands out, it’s not the deep bass. And I have all speakers set to small and 80hz. My wife even made note that when she walked into the room, she thought there would be a lot more bass.

Also can you please explain the sub trim? So I have a sub trim volume on my Yamaha remote app. Is this what you were talking about? It’s set at zero and has a range of -6 up to 6. So I should manually set it at -3 or -5? If so would this be after or before calibration? Thanks.

You are very welcome! You don't need to recalibrate, unless you are experimenting with a different subwoofer location. Just turn your subwoofer trim level back down to about -3 or -5. (Don't use the separate sub volume control you mentioned.) Then, simply turn the subwoofer gain up to about the 2/3 level, or even the 3/4 level. And, you will be all set.

If you do want to experiment with a different location for your PB12, you could do a sub crawl. And, in that case you would want to calibrate with your sub gain at about that same 1/2 level that you did before. As I recall, Yamaha trim levels only go down to -10, so having it set your trim level at -9.5 is actually perfect. That allows you to raise the trim level by 5 or 6db, and then to get any additional increases from the subwoofer amplifier itself.

You should still have quite a bit of headroom in your subwoofer that you aren't tapping into yet. But, if your subwoofer location is good, and you are turning up the gain to about 3/4 or more, and are still not getting the bass you want, then you may need to adjust your expectations a little.

It may help to understand that frequencies that we think are very low, are typically higher than we realize. So, as noted by others, the Polk subwoofer may have been playing loudly at 40Hz (with distortion) where the SVS subwoofer may be able to play loudly at 25 or 30Hz (without distortion). But those low-frequencies won't sound quite as loud as the higher ones do, especially if you were actually hearing more distortion before. That is why people add more-and-more powerful subwoofers to be able to hear the very low-frequencies at higher volume levels.

I would give the PB12 some time, particularly with higher subwoofer volumes, to see if it will give you more of what you expected. I don't think you have tapped its full potential yet. If however, after some time listening to what is definitely lower bass, and what is probably less distorted bass, you think that you still want more low-bass than you are getting, then you may want to consider a more powerful subwoofer.

Just to reiterate an important point, distortion sounds louder than undistorted sound. So, that may take some getting used to all by itself.

Regards,
Mike

I have the same exact issue with yamaha v685 which I got week ago ... I went crazy for two days even thought either my SW or Av reciever has a problem.

I did reset and nothing until I turned the subwoofer gain at 3 o'clock when I started to feel the bass ... my room is less than 1500 cubic feet and I am not sure whether the pb1000 is not enough or the Yamaha reciever has something to do with it ..

I did not understand whether the Y cable helped ?
And kindly keep me updated whenever you find any answers.

Good luck.

Amazing input here.

I would really appreciate if you could help me with these questions if it is possible .

If i am going to increase gain through SW itself, do I need to adjust the trim level on the av reciever? Like trying to reach -9 after calibration and then lower it to -4 or other number ?

Would it be okay keep the subwoofer gain at 3/4 all the time , wouldn't do any harm to the subwoofer?

Does room acoustic treatment help with subwoofer volume and quality ?

During calibration,when I put put the crossover on LFE the distance calibrated by yapo was 3 m which is more with 1 m than it is ... but when I did crossover at 160 hz the calibrated distance was 0.3 m ! What do you think that happened ? And which one do you advise ?

Sorry if this is too much but I followed alot of your input and it is always smart and respectful.

Appreciate any help .
Thank you .

Not sure why the Yamaha Low output voltage myth is still going around. I've owned several Yamaha receivers (and still use the A1060, V783, V379 and V381 in my household) and all of them have been able to drive my subwoofers to max output. This has been addressed quite a while ago. I've also had zero auto on issues and that's with dynamic EQ and YPAO volume off.

I honestly think the situation being described by trusaleen is just that the pb12NSD is not enough output for him. I remember going from the PSW505 to the pb1000(and even the pb2000) and no one in my household was overly impressed with the difference. What I've learned from this forum is that you cannot entirely trust the opinion of everyone else as their room/setups, and thresholds for what "loud" or "impactful" is, is vastly different.

The trim should stay at 0, what mthomas is referring to is the subwoofer level in the configuration menu, that minimizes at -10dB. I'd say put that at -7, crank the gain to about 3/4 and put the MV at -10dB. Play your favorite reference track and if you aren't pleased with the output you may want to try stepping up.

I have to give a thumbs up to svs delivery service with R&L delivery. Order on Monday morning. Received a call for delivery on Wednesday afternoon. Thats Amazon prime delivery speed....I chose delivery on Friday instead because I'm off on Friday. I know I will be grumpy waiting for delivery and having to move a 180 pound packaged in. I also know if I get it, I will be testing it out without any sleep before work. Pump my dolly tires up so I could be ready to move the package in on Friday So excited.

I'm glad I have a partner in this, this had been great advice, I wont be home until later to try it all out. For me, the sub had almost zero bass unless I used the Y-Cable. From my understanding this bumps the DB's a little. Let me know how yours goes. My room is 11x10 with 9 ft ceilings.

I previously had a premier acoustic PA-12 about 5 years ago, it had more bass and I thought the performance was decent in a larger room. I hope I'm not expecting too much, especially from what I've read about this sub. So one further questions, I understand the gain on subwoofer (I'll raise it) and then the subwoofer level inside calibration. So my question is, I also have two other settings under options, 1. Bass Tone Control and 2. Subwoofer trim. (This has a range of -6 up to +6) Right now they are both set to zero. Is this correct?

Thank you very much for the compliment, and I'll be glad to try to help. Keeping the subwoofer gain at 3/4 should be fine. If you hear the subwoofer make any noises that you think it shouldn't, such as obvious distortion or port chuffing, then you can back-off a little. It's a good idea to keep your AVR trim level in negative numbers (somewhere in the -3 to -5 range should be good).

You can do that by starting with a lower number during the calibration process, or you can lower your trim level after the calibration if you want to. Remember that negative numbers are different from positive numbers. -4 is a larger number than -9, so as you get closer to 0, you are raising the volume, not lowering it.

I don't understand your question about crossovers and the LFE setting. I assume that you are talking about a setting on your subwoofer. You can just leave it at LFE, as you really won't want your subwoofer trying to play higher frequencies than about 120Hz, anyway. That setting shouldn't have affected the distance that YPAO set. 3m is probably correct and you could manually set it back to that.

The distance setting is not an actual distance. The AVR is simply measuring the arrival time of the sound from the subwoofer. Due to the subwoofer's own internal processing, that sound will always take longer to arrive than the physical distance would indicate.

Room treatments can help with the higher bass frequencies played by our speakers, from about 120Hz up, and that can add clarity to the sound. It takes very thick bass traps, typically located in corners, to affect frequencies down to about 60 or 70Hz. Below those frequencies, even really thick bass traps will have little to no effect. Very low-frequencies will go right through concrete walls, much less through acoustic materials.

Just to put the Y-connector issue to bed again, for others who may be reading along, I will repeat that all the Y-connector does is to send an additional 6db from the AVR to the subwoofer to help turn-on the subwoofer from Auto mode. It doesn't actually add any extra output to the subwoofer. The subwoofer can only play as loudly as it can play, regardless of how strong the starting voltage from the AVR is. If your subwoofer turns on from Auto mode, when it should, then there is absolutely no advantage to using a Y-connector into both subwoofer inputs.

Regards,
Mike


Edit: Seeing the post just ahead of this one, you can experiment with the bass tone control if you want to. That will only affect the bass in your front speakers--not your subwoofer. I would leave the other subwoofer adjustment at 0, and make volume changes with the trim level in the subwoofer configuration menu, and with the subwoofer's gain control.

Hey there:

I have a Yamaha A3040....had the same issue....bass seemed underwhelming at first on my PB16. I recalibrated with YPAO and set both the Bass Tone Control and Bass Trim levels to +6 (under the Options menu). I set the PB16 to -15dB and ran YPAO....ran for all eight measurement positions. The final result YPAO set my sub level at -2 under configuration. I backed it down to -5 manually (under Configuration) and popped in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and walla, the PB16 is now devastating my home theater!

Hope this helps,

Nathan

Can someone please tell me what would the modern equivalent to my old SVS 20-39 PC-plus be? I have it configured with one port blocked and the subsonic filter set to 16 hz.

It still performs great but it is quite old now so I was thinking I should probably have a budget in mind for eventual replacement. Also, if I blow the driver or the amp fails is it possible to get replacement parts for it?

I had dual 20-39 PC's back in the day...absolutely loved them! The current equivalent would be the PC-2000. However, budget allowing, if I were replacing the 20-39 today, I would also give consideration to the PC-4000. Parts availability is only a quick phone call to SVS away. And lastly, keep an eye on CL and eBay for possible used 20-39's and/or parts.

Thanks guys, all of this was really helpful. So I havent had a lot of time to play with the settings, I'll have more time later this week, but I ran YPAO again, and YPAO set the sub to -9.0 this time. So I raised it up to -5.0 on the AVR. Then I raised the gain on the subwoofer to about 2'oclock and played with the sub trim in the options menu and I left the bass tone alone at 0, I also tend to think that the bass tone wont effect the sub. It's much better now! Now its about finding that sweet spot and I plan to try the sub crawl as well. I'll keep you guys updated.

That makes sense, many thanks for your help.

On Yamaha receivers, the Bass Tone control begins to boost frequencies around 250 Hz in a taper and the Subwoofer Trim control begins to boost below your crossover setting. So if you have your crossovers set at 80Hz, the Subwoofer Trim control will begin to boost at approximately 63 Hz.

Both of those tone controls boost in a taper so if you set the Bass Tone control +3, there would be a 1/2 a db boost at approximately 250 Hz and a +3 db boost at 20 Hz. The same for the Subwoofer Trim control only the boost would begin at approximately 63Hz.

Also, the Subwoofer Trim control is not the same as the subwoofer channel level and operates differently. From Yamaha:

Subwoofer Trim
Improved sound imaging. The Subwoofer Trim Control enhances the low frequencies by avoiding overlap with the front speaker output. This will result in a cleaner, more focused soundstage while providing a seamless frequency response. When subwoofer frequency overlap occurs in conventional systems, the overall sound is “pushed” toward the subwoofer. Subwoofer Trim Control takes care of this by separating the low subwoofer frequencies cleanly, thus stabilizing the front stage while providing a well-balanced enhanced bass sound.