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post #29791 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghost Recon View Post
My sb12nsd arrived yesterday, I arrived home tonight, stoked as hell as this is my first home subwoofer.

Got it unboxed and tossed into close where it will likely end up, ran audyssey, made some quick adjustments and it seems to be blending pretty well with my bookshelf speakers. Unfortunately I got home too late to really open it up, tomorrow cannot come soon enough!

I have a Denon e300, idk if there are any suggestions/recommendations for settings. I set the sub to what SVS recommended and AVR put my sub to -12, I bumped it up to -7.5, put crossover to 80hz and speakers to small. It also has Subwoofer mode as LFE and has an option for LFE+Main.

From what little ive been able to dabble with it I can say I am just excited to be able to hear the remainder of the audible spectrum.
First sub? Wow, you're in for a treat!! Enjoy

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post #29792 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghost Recon View Post
My sb12nsd arrived yesterday, I arrived home tonight, stoked as hell as this is my first home subwoofer.

Got it unboxed and tossed into close where it will likely end up, ran audyssey, made some quick adjustments and it seems to be blending pretty well with my bookshelf speakers. Unfortunately I got home too late to really open it up, tomorrow cannot come soon enough!

I have a Denon e300, idk if there are any suggestions/recommendations for settings. I set the sub to what SVS recommended and AVR put my sub to -12, I bumped it up to -7.5, put crossover to 80hz and speakers to small. It also has Subwoofer mode as LFE and has an option for LFE+Main.

From what little ive been able to dabble with it I can say I am just excited to be able to hear the remainder of the audible spectrum.

I would lower the volume on the sub and re run your avr cal. 12 is probably bottomed out. Get it so the avr is showing around -5 and you're good. Gives you plenty of room to bump up in the avr or the sub itself as desired.



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post #29793 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ghost Recon View Post
My sb12nsd arrived yesterday, I arrived home tonight, stoked as hell as this is my first home subwoofer.

Got it unboxed and tossed into close where it will likely end up, ran audyssey, made some quick adjustments and it seems to be blending pretty well with my bookshelf speakers. Unfortunately I got home too late to really open it up, tomorrow cannot come soon enough!

I have a Denon e300, idk if there are any suggestions/recommendations for settings. I set the sub to what SVS recommended and AVR put my sub to -12, I bumped it up to -7.5, put crossover to 80hz and speakers to small. It also has Subwoofer mode as LFE and has an option for LFE+Main.

From what little ive been able to dabble with it I can say I am just excited to be able to hear the remainder of the audible spectrum.
Congrats! If Audyssey set your sub trim to -12 then it's at its max negative trim and not a good calibration. You should turn the sub dial up a bit and re-run Audyssey until it gives you a trim above -12, and then you can increase the trim if you want more.

EDIT: flyinion beat me to it...

I meant to have said turn the dial DOWN on the sub and re-run Audyssey.
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post #29794 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by flyinion View Post
I would lower the volume on the sub and re run your avr cal. 12 is probably bottomed out. Get it so the avr is showing around -5 and you're good. Gives you plenty of room to bump up in the avr or the sub itself as desired.

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Originally Posted by ctsv510 View Post
Congrats! If Audyssey set your sub trim to -12 then it's at its max negative trim and not a good calibration. You should turn the sub dial up a bit and re-run Audyssey until it gives you a trim above -12, and then you can increase the trim if you want more.

EDIT: flyinion beat me to it...

You guys are actually saying opposite things, with one recommending lowering the subwoofer gain, and the other recommending raising the subwoofer gain. Obviously, only one of those procedures will result in a higher trim setting. An easy way to remember this is that, during a calibration, gain and trim are inversely proportional--raise one and the other goes down; lower one and the other goes up.

I agree that -12 is maxed-out, so it's hard to know exactly where Audyssey would have put the trim level. I would lower the gain one click, and rerun Audyssey, in order to find out. On the other hand, a good final target for the trim level is around -5. So, if the OP wants to end-up at about -5 (in order to keep the trim well in negative numbers) and still wants to be able to add or subtract some bass with his remote, then he will need to be at about -8 or -9 after the calibration.

Personally, I shoot for -11 or -11.5 (but not -12) when I do a calibration. Then, I use a combination of sub gain increase and trim increase to get to the highest bass levels I will ever use, without exceeding about -5 in trim. Once I know that is the highest I will want to go, it's easy for me to use my remote to remove a few decibels from that -5 setting whenever I want to. There are lots of different ways to do this, though. The key is just to try to keep the AVR subwoofer trim in negative numbers, and shooting for about -5, as the highest trim setting we use, is a pretty good target.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #29795 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 06:53 AM
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You're right, too early in the morning and I got my up / down reversed
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post #29796 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 07:43 AM
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Tyvm to all 3 of you! I am glad mike came in to straighten that out haha, I was already thinking I was confused.
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post #29797 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 01:06 PM
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I repositioned it in a place i could get at it better so i could make the adjustments as I ran the calibration, I dropped the sub gain down two clicks and it went to -7 so I will probably go up a click and run it again. Unfortunately one of the few spots it can go leaves my listening position almost devoid of the bass, the constraints on the room layout are troubling.

It just barely fits under a corner table, which is where i had it before, and it sounds better there, so I will habe to move it back, but the isolation pads I got will make it too tall... Might have to elevate the corner table or something. I thought about taking it all in the basement but that room is quite large and the setup possibilities are also grim...

I will have to think this through, my bookshelfs are on 6 DIY concrete blocks weighing 27lb each so moving things around is arduous...
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post #29798 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghost Recon View Post
I repositioned it in a place i could get at it better so i could make the adjustments as I ran the calibration, I dropped the sub gain down two clicks and it went to -7 so I will probably go up a click and run it again. Unfortunately one of the few spots it can go leaves my listening position almost devoid of the bass, the constraints on the room layout are troubling.

It just barely fits under a corner table, which is where i had it before, and it sounds better there, so I will habe to move it back, but the isolation pads I got will make it too tall... Might have to elevate the corner table or something. I thought about taking it all in the basement but that room is quite large and the setup possibilities are also grim...

I will have to think this through, my bookshelfs are on 6 DIY concrete blocks weighing 27lb each so moving things around is arduous...

Hi,

Lowering it by one click should be perfect, and you can make further adjustments from there after Audyssey finishes. If I were you, I would try the subwoofer wherever you think it sounds the best, and worry about isolation pads later. You might find that you don't even need them. If you do decide to elevate the subwoofer slightly, with whatever isolation material you choose, you can always put small casters under the table legs to lift it a little too.

Regards,
Mike
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GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #29799 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 01:24 PM
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Hi all, since the pb2000 is ported in the front, can it sit it against the front wall, but not touching it of course?

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post #29800 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 04:02 PM
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Hi all, since the pb2000 is ported in the front, can it sit it against the front wall, but not touching it of course?

My dual PB-2000's did just that for a couple of years and performed fine. However, the better question is...is that placement the best or second best placement in your room for optimal performance at your MLP? Only you can determine that with at least a "sub crawl" or REW. Have fun and enjoy!

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post #29801 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 04:19 PM
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Finally unboxed and hooked up my PC-4000 that I ordered over Cyber Monday. JESUS this thing is massive. I knew it was going to be big, I didnt know it was going to be support column big lol Seeing as I bought this to save space from the PB-4000, I can only imagine how much more of a foot print the PB would have. Either way, got it into position and re ran my Onkyo Accueq, and for some reason it said the sub was 30 feet away, even though the MLP is closer to 12 feet.

My question is, should I re run the Accueq? Or just manually set the distance? Also, I plan on running the PC-4000 at full range, so with one port plugged. Should I leave that unplugged while running the EQ then plug it afterwords?
Right now I have the sub set at -10db. Been fiddling with the SVS App, which is kinda cool but I honestly dont know much of what I'm doing. For someone who has been into A/V for decades, and has spend thousands of dollars, I really dont know much about the basics of EQ curves. Really sucks being on the west coast not near anyone else who has the same kinda hobbies. I would totally be down to have someone come over and help tweak my system, I'd even pay. I just don't want to spend the money and have a professional calibrator come do up my set up while everything is in a living room and not a theater space.

Any pointers would be great.

P.s. also know about doing the sub crawl. With the sub being as big as it is, I doubt Im going to have any dead spots where my wife and i would be sitting. But if it seems like it I will definitely move things around
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post #29802 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 05:53 PM
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Finally unboxed and hooked up my PC-4000 that I ordered over Cyber Monday. JESUS this thing is massive. I knew it was going to be big, I didnt know it was going to be support column big lol Seeing as I bought this to save space from the PB-4000, I can only imagine how much more of a foot print the PB would have. Either way, got it into position and re ran my Onkyo Accueq, and for some reason it said the sub was 30 feet away, even though the MLP is closer to 12 feet.

My question is, should I re run the Accueq? Or just manually set the distance? Also, I plan on running the PC-4000 at full range, so with one port plugged. Should I leave that unplugged while running the EQ then plug it afterwords?
Right now I have the sub set at -10db. Been fiddling with the SVS App, which is kinda cool but I honestly dont know much of what I'm doing. For someone who has been into A/V for decades, and has spend thousands of dollars, I really dont know much about the basics of EQ curves. Really sucks being on the west coast not near anyone else who has the same kinda hobbies. I would totally be down to have someone come over and help tweak my system, I'd even pay. I just don't want to spend the money and have a professional calibrator come do up my set up while everything is in a living room and not a theater space.

Any pointers would be great.

P.s. also know about doing the sub crawl. With the sub being as big as it is, I doubt Im going to have any dead spots where my wife and i would be sitting. But if it seems like it I will definitely move things around

Hi and congratulations on your new PC4000! When it comes to subwoofers, massive is a relative term.

The Guide, linked below, will help you with many of the basics of HT. But, there really aren't too many shortcuts for any of us. We all have to learn about this stuff gradually, and we probably never really understand as much as we would like to. There are a couple of questions I can help you with, though.

First, AccuEQ is not measuring the physical distance to your subwoofer. It is measuring the arrival time of the sound, in milliseconds, and then making that sound's arrival time coincide with that of your speakers. The internal processing of the DSP and amplifier delay the sound from the subwoofer, where that doesn't happen with the speakers powered by your AVR. The distance set by your AVR is probably correct.

If you are going to run your subwoofer in the one-port plugged, Extended mode, it is a good idea to calibrate with it set that way. Don't forget to also change the setting in the sub to Extended mode. If you post your location on this thread, it is possible that someone who lives fairly near to you will be able to come help you a little bit. That happens pretty frequently. It may not be someone with an SVS sub, but others may be able to pass the word along. Good luck!

Regards,
Mike

GUIDE TO SUBWOOFER CALIBRATION AND BASS PREFERENCES

* The Guide linked above is a comprehensive guide to Audio & HT systems, including:
Speaker placements & Room treatments; HT calibration & Room EQ; Room gain; Bass
Preferences; Subwoofer Buyer's Guide: Sealed/ported; ID subs; Subwoofer placement.
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post #29803 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
hi and congratulations on your new pc4000! when it comes to subwoofers, massive is a relative term.


the guide, linked below, will help you with many of the basics of ht. But, there really aren't too many shortcuts for any of us. We all have to learn about this stuff gradually, and we probably never really understand as much as we would like to. there are a couple of questions i can help you with, though.

First, accueq is not measuring the physical distance to your subwoofer. It is measuring the arrival time of the sound, in milliseconds, and then making that sound's arrival time coincide with that of your speakers. The internal processing of the dsp and amplifier delay the sound from the subwoofer, where that doesn't happen with the speakers powered by your avr. The distance set by your avr is probably correct.

If you are going to run your subwoofer in the one-port plugged, extended mode, it is a good idea to calibrate with it set that way. Don't forget to also change the setting in the sub to extended mode. If you post your location on this thread, it is possible that someone who lives fairly near to you will be able to come help you a little bit. That happens pretty frequently. It may not be someone with an svs sub, but others may be able to pass the word along. Good luck!

regards,
mike
LOL

So true about the size been relative, this one is also on the big side;
http://jtrspeakers.com/captivator-4000ulf.html
While I would love to get my hand on one or two. They are too big for clearing my screen in room.

Also believe your Guide should be read. To understand how bass sound interact with the settings from the sub/s and the AVR, space and location, within the room. A very good point about doing a calibration, only after all the setting on the sub are done.


Ray
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post #29804 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 07:51 PM
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Finally unboxed and hooked up my PC-4000 that I ordered over Cyber Monday. JESUS this thing is massive. I knew it was going to be big, I didnt know it was going to be support column big lol Seeing as I bought this to save space from the PB-4000, I can only imagine how much more of a foot print the PB would have. Either way, got it into position and re ran my Onkyo Accueq, and for some reason it said the sub was 30 feet away, even though the MLP is closer to 12 feet.

My question is, should I re run the Accueq? Or just manually set the distance? Also, I plan on running the PC-4000 at full range, so with one port plugged. Should I leave that unplugged while running the EQ then plug it afterwords?
Right now I have the sub set at -10db. Been fiddling with the SVS App, which is kinda cool but I honestly dont know much of what I'm doing. For someone who has been into A/V for decades, and has spend thousands of dollars, I really dont know much about the basics of EQ curves. Really sucks being on the west coast not near anyone else who has the same kinda hobbies. I would totally be down to have someone come over and help tweak my system, I'd even pay. I just don't want to spend the money and have a professional calibrator come do up my set up while everything is in a living room and not a theater space.

Any pointers would be great.

P.s. also know about doing the sub crawl. With the sub being as big as it is, I doubt Im going to have any dead spots where my wife and i would be sitting. But if it seems like it I will definitely move things around

I would like to add my congrats as well! I know how exciting it is to welcome a new sub! Mike's, @mthomas47 , suggestion to familiarize yourself with "the guide" in his signature is the best "pointer" one can offer. As you become more familiar with it's contents, your comfort level will certainly rise. Mike is also correct in commenting that subwoofer size is relative (see link below) This is also a reminder that "dead spots" (nulls) are unrelated to the size of the subwoofer or its proximity to the seating location. The acoustic and physical properties of the room and the sub(s) location within the room determine where the peaks (emphasis) and the nulls (de-emphasis) of the bass frequencies occur. At any rate, the "guide" will assist you through these principles with easily digestible language. Again, congrats, have fun, and welcome to the journey!

Edit 1: It appears I'm echoing Ray as well!
Edit 2: http://countercultured.net/pics/ht/

Epson: 5040UB | Elite: 115" Fixed Frame CinemaScope (2.35:1) | Onkyo: TX-RZ920 + M-5010 (7.2.4) | Klipsch: RF-7 II's, RC-64 II, RS-62 II, RB-61 II MICCA: M-8C (Atmos) x 6 | SVS: PB16-Ultra x 2 | Philips: BDP7501, Panasonic: DMP UB900, Oppo: UDP-203

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post #29805 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 07:59 PM
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3 questions-
1 how could you have put them in the same footprint as the PC2000 when the PB3000 are much larger and wider??
2 how big is your room (trying decide between PC2000 pair or 1 PC2000 and 1 PB3000
3. Any way you could try a PC2000 and PB3000 together and see if that is doable -this might be my short term compromise solution

Thanks!
Hey there!

1. I said "general footprint", not same footprint ;-). I put the PB-3000s in that general footprint for a quick out of the box test, simply assuming it was "better than somewhere else" based on my REW results with the PC-2000s. I won't know if those placements are ideal until re-running REW in a few weeks.
2. My room is a dedicated theater at approximately 2400 cu. ft. It has a single door and can be fully sealed off since it is not adjoined to another open space. I would reach out to the good folks at SVS, Ed Mullen, and inquire about mixing of these two subs. Many others have success with the mix and match method, but it may take a little fine tuning.
3. I already have the PC-2000s in another set up, so I won't be testing that out.

Thanks and hope this helps

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post #29806 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 08:03 PM
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I would like to add my congrats as well! I know how exciting it is to welcome a new sub! Mike's, @mthomas47 , suggestion to familiarize yourself with "the guide" in his signature is the best "pointer" one can offer. As you become more familiar with it's contents, your comfort level will certainly rise. Mike is also correct in commenting that subwoofer size is relative This is also a reminder that "dead spots" (nulls) are unrelated to the size of the subwoofer or its proximity to the seating location. The acoustic and physical properties of the room and the sub(s) location within the room determine where the peaks (emphasis) and the nulls (de-emphasis) of the bass frequencies occur. At any rate, the "guide" will assist you through these principles with easily digestible language. Again, congrats, have fun, and welcome to the journey!

Edit: It appears I'm echoing Ray as well!
Make this also another +1

Very good post Gene, I could have highlighted the whole post for a +1.

Just for info, I am testing my new Battle Station. Two new 32" monitors (side by side), with a new desk, wireless keyboard/ with new mouse.
While it is my Christmas gift from my Wife. Her Sister show-up, and installed-it for me since she is an IT tech.
The reason it is taking me a while longer to post, since the mouse do not react the same on a 32" monitor than my previous 22" Just a matter to get use to-it, and then it will be great
Will try to post a picture to You and Mike, through a PM (not sure if it can be done. If not maybe on the Guide, if Mike is OK with this).


Ray
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post #29807 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 08:24 PM
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Hey there!

1. I said "general footprint", not same footprint ;-). I put the PB-3000s in that general footprint for a quick out of the box test, simply assuming it was "better than somewhere else" based on my REW results with the PC-2000s. I won't know if those placements are ideal until re-running REW in a few weeks.
2. My room is a dedicated theater at approximately 2400 cu. ft. It has a single door and can be fully sealed off since it is not adjoined to another open space. I would reach out to the good folks at SVS, Ed Mullen, and inquire about mixing of these two subs. Many others have success with the mix and match method, but it may take a little fine tuning.
3. I already have the PC-2000s in another set up, so I won't be testing that out.

Thanks and hope this helps
+1

Like you said, it can be done with some fine tuning. Having two subs the same is just more easy to do, for most case.


Ray
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post #29808 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 08:25 PM
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Make this also another +1

Very good post Gene, I could have highlighted the whole post for a +1.

Just for info, I am testing my new Battle Station. Two new 32" monitors (side by side), with a new desk, wireless keyboard/ with new mouse.
While it is my Christmas gift from my Wife. Her Sister show-up, and installed-it for me since she is an IT tech.
The reason it is taking me a while longer to post Just a matter to get use to-it, and then it will be great


Ray

WOW! Sounds more like the bridge of the "Millennium Falcon" or "Enterprise" to me! Merry "early" Christmas!

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post #29809 of 32364 Old 12-09-2018, 08:34 PM
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WOW! Sounds more like the bridge of the "Millennium Falcon" or "Enterprise" to me! Merry "early" Christmas!
LOL

Too funny you said that. On my previous truck that kept breaking apart, and was always in the shop for repair.
One day an operator notice that have out some little tags on both side of the hood, that said "Millennium Falcon".
After a few seconds, He started to laugh. And said "I got-it, fastest piece of junk in the Galaxy. And always in need of repair", but was right on the money

Also want to say, to everyone. A very happy Christmas.

Ray

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post #29810 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 06:22 AM
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Pre wiring before SVS subs come

Since I will be getting someone to wire for 5.2.4 in the next couple days before I have all the speakers I already mapped out where the main speakers will go but because I will not have my Duel PC2000 subs to check ideal position is there any recommendation as to how/how many and what kind of wire to run along the room so that I can have them both connected together when they run but I won’t know the placement combination.

Do I have to run many Y cables? Don’t the Y cables just work with 2 ends on one part and one end to the AVR-ie the placement will be fixed with wherever they run both ends of the Y cable?? Or do I run lots of Y cables so I can do the sub crawl when it’s all finished and have multiple options coming from the wall for ideal placement once I know?

Will have DIRAC and a NAD 758 if that helps...

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post #29811 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 06:32 AM
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My dual PB-2000's did just that for a couple of years and performed fine. However, the better question is...is that placement the best or second best placement in your room for optimal performance at your MLP? Only you can determine that with at least a "sub crawl" or REW. Have fun and enjoy!
given how huge the PB-2000 is, the typical place along the front wall is the only place I can put this monster. anywhere else, it would stick out like a sore thumb.

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post #29812 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 08:59 AM
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given how huge the PB-2000 is, the typical place along the front wall is the only place I can put this monster. anywhere else, it would stick out like a sore thumb.
Have you given any thought to the PC-2000 as a solution for your room?

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post #29813 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 01:07 PM
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Have you given any thought to the PC-2000 as a solution for your room?

this one is also huge, just in a different direction. and I don't know how I feel about downward firing subs. is there more vibration? does it sound as good as the PB-2000?

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post #29814 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 02:26 PM
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this one is also huge, just in a different direction. and I don't know how I feel about downward firing subs. is there more vibration? does it sound as good as the PB-2000?
The PC-200 and PB-2000 have almost identical performance. The PC version actually gets slightly lower (16Hz vs 17Hz). Down firing vs front firing makes little difference. Room vibrations are primarily from the low frequencies themselves not the direction of the driver. If placing in a corner the cylinders can work well and be fairly inconspicuous especially if not a brightly lit area. If in the middle of your front wall I agree may not be any less of an eye sore.

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post #29815 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 02:31 PM
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this one is also huge, just in a different direction. and I don't know how I feel about downward firing subs. is there more vibration? does it sound as good as the PB-2000?
I don't have a PC-2000 anymore nor actually any of the equipment in the picture but here is what it did look like in a corner of my room.
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post #29816 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 02:48 PM
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I don't have a PC-2000 anymore nor actually any of the equipment in the picture but here is what it did look like in a corner of my room.
how did it sound like with your polks?

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post #29817 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 02:57 PM
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this one is also huge, just in a different direction. and I don't know how I feel about downward firing subs. is there more vibration? does it sound as good as the PB-2000?
Huge is a relative term. My old PB 12 Plus/2 is probably a good deal larger than a PC or PB-2000 and it is just fine in an out of the way corner behind my couch.

I'd stick another one back there on the other side of the couch if i could find one (maybe a PB-4000)
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post #29818 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 03:01 PM
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how did it sound like with your polks?
They blended well. The RTiA/CSiA have decent lower end response so crossing at the standard 80Hz was fine.

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post #29819 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 03:06 PM
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this one is also huge, just in a different direction. and I don't know how I feel about downward firing subs. is there more vibration? does it sound as good as the PB-2000?

Huge is relative! (See the link below I posted above yesterday!) The frequencies subwoofers are responsible for produce sound waves that are non/omni directional. Therefore it doesn't matter which direction the driver faces...horizontal or vertical. I have owned both PB and PC SVS subwoofers...excellent performance from both...it would be difficult to tell the difference in sound quality and tactile response in a blind test...just a different/alternate footprint. As a suggestion, it would be beneficial to review the well written "Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences" by @mthomas47 . Good luck in your pursuit!

http://countercultured.net/pics/ht/

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...eferences.html
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post #29820 of 32364 Old 12-10-2018, 04:26 PM
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Thanks for the responses. Its been fun doing frequency tests and hearing all sorts of things get set off at different Hz's. I will definitely go over the guide in the near future. Now that I have the one PC4000, I cant imagine what it would be like with duals lol maybe if I ever get my theater built back out in the garage... lol
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