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post #10531 of 10805 Old 05-11-2017, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
Is there was a new 18" sub coming out? Or is this just a custom one off?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ult...l#post52821913
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Same performance as F18s, dimensions to fit where F18s won't, mostly intended to be powered from the rack. These will be part of a series targeted at acoustic designers and installers called our Designer Series. You might have missed it's sibling discussed in this thread. I grabbed some photos of both models as we buttoned up the pair that went into Art's room which I'll post up later.
Hi bscool,

Quickly following up, the subs you were asking about are these new models from the Designer Series as I described above. The DS18-12 is 30" x 26" x 12.5" deep, while the DS18-20 is 20" x 20" x 23.5" deep. The DS18-20 can also be loaded as a powered + unit, but most often we expect they will be powered externally. For most of our customers here I would recommend sticking with the F18 design unless these dimensions are very beneficial. While we will offer these direct, they were conceived with system designers, installers, and integrators in mind. We run these in much smaller batches and largely per order. They will be a bit higher cost and priced with shipping included and magnetic grills optional. Art Sonneborn received the first of the DS18-20 units as seen in the link above, while the first pair of DS18-12 units are headed to the "LOGE" theater for AVS member Lasalle which is currently in construction. The whole point here is for these units to allow this level of performance to fit in places most substantial subs might not. This is a product line that will expand significantly over the coming year, including some options intended to only be used with or in unique ways with the latest high performance surround processors such as Trinnov's Altitude models and DataSat's RS20i.

While I know it's popular and fun to lust and banter over the biggest, baddest, and most obscenely sized boxes available, the right location with a very good sub almost always sounds and performs better than a big brute in the wrong place. Fitting in the right locations to help awesome projects like Art Sonneborn's room sound even better is exactly why I've worked up products like these.







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post #10532 of 10805 Old 06-05-2017, 02:48 PM
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Master/Slave F18+ pair in black oak are now in the house! These will ultimately be going upstairs into my dedicated media room. For now they are in the open concept downstairs den. They are definitely more subwoofer than furniture but I love the modular design and they would even work well behind the seats in my den. Hopefully they don't shame MFWs!

I hosting GTGs on June 10 & 17 and performing CEA-2010 groundplane measurements starting June 9. The F18s will be the sealed reference sub (master and master+slave) to compare vs single ported 18s as well as my resident dual MFW-15 Turbos.

Rythmik FV18
PSA V1801
JTR Cap 118
JTR Cap 1400 (2015)

SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer meet

I am planning to measure the PSA S3000i and hopefully a Submersive HP as well. With the JTR measurements, we should have a reference for comparison to data-bass.com .

Sorry for the poor phone pics. I love the look of the carbon fiber driver which matches my Mirage OMDs. My son turns 4 in a few weeks, but I think these need to run grills off! 😎

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post #10533 of 10805 Old 06-06-2017, 12:19 PM
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Nice collection of subs Marc! Looking forward to your reviews!

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post #10534 of 10805 Old 06-06-2017, 03:43 PM
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@Marc Alexander Looks like those F18's fit perfect behind you seats for VNF! I think you are currently using the ported Turbo's behind you for this, but would be interesting to see what you think of them that nearfeild vs the Turbos. Not sure if Mark lifts the low end up with DSP or has an adjustment like on his Submersives, but if not you'll probably have to LS'em a bit to get the low end up where the ported is at, unless you get a lot of room gain. I don't remember if you said you get much in your down stairs listening area. Those F18's ought to get you a ton of TR wobble down to 10hz and under being Very Nearfield like that. My DS4-18's right behind me, which are similar to the UM-18's get me real strong TR down to about 8hz and is real comparable to my MA's and BK LFE's. I did comparisons of the two not to long ago for Dom in the ULF thread. It kind of surprised me just how similar the TR felt from the Subs only vs MAs/TT's. Although with the subs you get the direct pressure response/sound intensity in addition to the TR. But the combo is quite nice. Is this your plan in your upstairs HT?

@ereed I thought I saw where you were thinking about going sealed all the way around for your FF and VNF from PSA. I'm sure it'll be awesome. You may consider these F18's, at least for the very nearfields right behind you where your PB13's currently are since the F18 is only 17.5" deep, whereas I think the s1801 is 22" deep. Either way both are not as deep as your PB's and should work better with the space you have to work with.

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post #10535 of 10805 Old 06-06-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
@ereed I thought I saw where you were thinking about going sealed all the way around for your FF and VNF from PSA. I'm sure it'll be awesome. You may consider these F18's, at least for the very nearfields right behind you where your PB13's currently are since the F18 is only 17.5" deep, whereas I think the s1801 is 22" deep. Either way both are not as deep as your PB's and should work better with the space you have to work with.
Yes, that is what I am thinking. Going sealed all around! You read my mind. LOL

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post #10536 of 10805 Old 06-06-2017, 03:50 PM
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Yes overkill is not enough let's do "Very Nearfield".
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post #10537 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
@Marc Alexander Looks like those F18's fit perfect behind you seats for VNF! I think you are currently using the ported Turbo's behind you for this, but would be interesting to see what you think of them that nearfeild vs the Turbos. Not sure if Mark lifts the low end up with DSP or has an adjustment like on his Submersives, but if not you'll probably have to LS'em a bit to get the low end up where the ported is at, unless you get a lot of room gain. I don't remember if you said you get much in your down stairs listening area. Those F18's ought to get you a ton of TR wobble down to 10hz and under being Very Nearfield like that. My DS4-18's right behind me, which are similar to the UM-18's get me real strong TR down to about 8hz and is real comparable to my MA's and BK LFE's. I did comparisons of the two not to long ago for Dom in the ULF thread. It kind of surprised me just how similar the TR felt from the Subs only vs MAs/TT's. Although with the subs you get the direct pressure response/sound intensity in addition to the TR. But the combo is quite nice. Is this your plan in your upstairs HT?
Hi SBuger,

The F18 is dialed in to a very similar response to the SubMerisve, with slightly less roll off with the LF Adjust knob in the 12 o'clock position. With the weather warmer now I'll be getting some cleaner measurements I can post up showing the range of response available with the LF Adjust knob.

For comparison, these are some INDOOR measurements (outdoors is smoother) of the the SubMersive showing the change to the response and the relative change which is more important to understand when making adjustments after running room correction. I have calibrated the DSP to insure each of the 11 positions of the detented knob corresponds to the expected curve with the middle/flat curves being 12 o'clock on the dial. In outdoor measurements we end up with a range of 11 curves with a +/-3dB low frequency window of 12-27Hz extending to around 200Hz:


Here is the difference between each of those curves:


Taking a closer look blown up to 2dB/division, we see a +/-6dB swing around 20Hz and close to +/-8dB at 10Hz. The gradual contour at the intermediate settings make for very useful fine adjustment to achieve the balance you prefer in matching your room's low frequency gain or tapering after room correction flattens the response:
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post #10538 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
@ereed I thought I saw where you were thinking about going sealed all the way around for your FF and VNF from PSA. I'm sure it'll be awesome. You may consider these F18's, at least for the very nearfields right behind you where your PB13's currently are since the F18 is only 17.5" deep, whereas I think the s1801 is 22" deep. Either way both are not as deep as your PB's and should work better with the space you have to work with.
While I still personally prefer delivering the intensity from a little greater distance and/or multiple directions, I've experienced the effect and it can be enjoyable, and more so if there is a reasonable distribution behind or on both sides of the listener so you don't notice much difference when moving/leaning side to side. Many years back I heard from some pro audio designers how they would get much better results and happier drummers by applying proper delay to the shakers they were using in drum thrones on stage so the arrival matched or was behind that of the bass-limited monitor. The concept is no different than delay fill speakers in an auditorium or far distance where the first arrival dominates the source perception. Making sure the tactile response of shakers or energy of a near field subwoofer is aligned or slightly behind the main speakers always makes the result more natural.

While the F18 is purposely a reasonable depth at 17.5", we also offer the same performance available from a very thin, 12.5" deep enclosure I noted in this post above. This one does require the amplification to be external, but does add some interesting possibilities for creative placement of subwoofers and arrays of subwoofers.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
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post #10539 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 08:53 AM
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I'm noticing the last few days this thread has gotten some traction with some posts. It has got me thinking about my current setup. I have just one Submerssive HP+. Personally I think it's got enough bass in the room as is. Room is 21' long, 17' wide, and a cathedral ceiling that peaks around 12'. See photo below for sound stage and link in sig for full theater. I originally had the sub on the right near that small curtain but moving it to the left sound stage a few months ago it's as if I have a brand new sub. It just hits so much harder. Doesn't make sense to me but hey...physics.

So, with that said, my question would be is it worth adding a second sub and if so where?
Place one in that dead spot near the curtain behind the right speaker?
Add one somewhere else?
Do nothing and just leave it alone?

I'm trying to justify adding the slave but as it stands, for my wife and myself it's dialed in well to where we sit so I'm not so much of a stickler of having an equal response throughout the room given it's only the one small row of seats and we sit in the same two seats typically. Am I missing anything else without having that second sub? I ask because I've never really used a multi-sub system before. I can jam the system to the point where I can get a dull ear ache and this thing absolutely never distorts to my ears. Is there any gain from the second sub with what I've said for my personal configuration and experience?



Thread to Build:Theater Build
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Living Room: Aperion Grand Verus, Outlaw LFM-1 EX, 75" Sony XBR75X940E +more
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post #10540 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post
I'm noticing the last few days this thread has gotten some traction with some posts. It has got me thinking about my current setup. I have just one Submerssive HP+. Personally I think it's got enough bass in the room as is. Room is 21' long, 17' wide, and a cathedral ceiling that peaks around 12'. See photo below for sound stage and link in sig for full theater. I originally had the sub on the right near that small curtain but moving it to the left sound stage a few months ago it's as if I have a brand new sub. It just hits so much harder. Doesn't make sense to me but hey...physics.
Nice looking room. Can you give some further detail of what is the structure and behind the curtains on the left and right of the room? Which are interior vs exterior walls?

Quote:
So, with that said, my question would be is it worth adding a second sub and if so where?
Place one in that dead spot near the curtain behind the right speaker?
Add one somewhere else?
Do nothing and just leave it alone?

I'm trying to justify adding the slave but as it stands, for my wife and myself it's dialed in well to where we sit so I'm not so much of a stickler of having an equal response throughout the room given it's only the one small row of seats and we sit in the same two seats typically. Am I missing anything else without having that second sub? I ask because I've never really used a multi-sub system before. I can jam the system to the point where I can get a dull ear ache and this thing absolutely never distorts to my ears. Is there any gain from the second sub with what I've said for my personal configuration and experience?

I do expect a slave unit would make a nice addition at the lowest frequencies, and placing the 2 subs either in the front corners or at 1/4 width could compliment well. Based on the difference observed between the two corners I would lean toward left/right corner placement where you will likely benefit from the differences between the two locations complimenting each other. Do you have the original style amplifier or the new one with the 4 knobs for control?

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post #10541 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 01:10 PM
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Nice looking room. Can you give some further detail of what is the structure and behind the curtains on the left and right of the room? Which are interior vs exterior walls?
Thanks the room is a blast. Anyways, behind both curtains are windows that have black out material attached to them. The entire room has walls to the outside except for the wall on the right side of the theater (side with small curtain). Other than that window the rest of that wall has access to the attic. The entire house is a one-story house and then going up the stairs to a "bonus room." That's this theater. The rest of the walls are to the outside world. I'll attach a quick video walk thru at the bottom of the post it's the easiest way to get an idea of the room.

Here's what's behind the curtains...

The left wall...second photo is behind that right speaker





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I do expect a slave unit would make a nice addition at the lowest frequencies, and placing the 2 subs either in the front corners or at 1/4 width could compliment well. Based on the difference observed between the two corners I would lean toward left/right corner placement where you will likely benefit from the differences between the two locations complimenting each other. Do you have the original style amplifier or the new one with the 4 knobs for control?
I bought this sub from you when we bought the house back in 2014. The sub sounded good on the right of the room but the gain really had to be ramped up. It also seemed to lack a punch when it came to music. Moving it to the left side of the room I really had to dial back the gain and the punch that was missing in music came back. I did the whole sub crawl thing and found the left to be much better than the right side of the room.

Here's the back of the sub:

Thread to Build:Theater Build
Theater: Monitor Audio Platinum PL200/PL350C, Seaton Submerssive, 150" 3D Elite Screens +more
Living Room: Aperion Grand Verus, Outlaw LFM-1 EX, 75" Sony XBR75X940E +more
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post #10542 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Hi SBuger,

The F18 is dialed in to a very similar response to the SubMerisve, with slightly less roll off with the LF Adjust knob in the 12 o'clock position. With the weather warmer now I'll be getting some cleaner measurements I can post up showing the range of response available with the LF Adjust knob.

For comparison, these are some INDOOR measurements (outdoors is smoother) of the the SubMersive showing the change to the response and the relative change which is more important to understand when making adjustments after running room correction. I have calibrated the DSP to insure each of the 11 positions of the detented knob corresponds to the expected curve with the middle/flat curves being 12 o'clock on the dial. In outdoor measurements we end up with a range of 11 curves with a +/-3dB low frequency window of 12-27Hz extending to around 200Hz:


Here is the difference between each of those curves:


Taking a closer look blown up to 2dB/division, we see a +/-6dB swing around 20Hz and close to +/-8dB at 10Hz. The gradual contour at the intermediate settings make for very useful fine adjustment to achieve the balance you prefer in matching your room's low frequency gain or tapering after room correction flattens the response:

Thanks for the info Mark! Nice! Your 12.5" deep enclosure looks very nice as well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I still personally prefer delivering the intensity from a little greater distance and/or multiple directions, I've experienced the effect and it can be enjoyable, and more so if there is a reasonable distribution behind or on both sides of the listener so you don't notice much difference when moving/leaning side to side. Many years back I heard from some pro audio designers how they would get much better results and happier drummers by applying proper delay to the shakers they were using in drum thrones on stage so the arrival matched or was behind that of the bass-limited monitor. The concept is no different than delay fill speakers in an auditorium or far distance where the first arrival dominates the source perception. Making sure the tactile response of shakers or energy of a near field subwoofer is aligned or slightly behind the main speakers always makes the result more natural.

While the F18 is purposely a reasonable depth at 17.5", we also offer the same performance available from a very thin, 12.5" deep enclosure I noted in this post above. This one does require the amplification to be external, but does add some interesting possibilities for creative placement of subwoofers and arrays of subwoofers.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that would be preferable with intensity coming from multiple directions and at a greater distance to help it seem like its coming from everywhere, especially in a nice dedicated space. Unfortunately my HT is in the middle of my living room in a very large open floor plan (about ~9,500 cuft). So getting that kind of slam and TR that I want all the way down to 8hz or so (at least from subs) is nearly impossible without having them directly behind me or listening at very uncomfortable levels without the VNF's, especially when it comes to 16hz and under. Luckily this solves that problem pretty easily and fortunately with a farfield sub in the mix as well, it definitely helps it seem like the intensity is coming from everywhere a little better. Also in the MLP, I've got one sealed sub on each side of the one directly behind me (which are also very nearfield) so it help distribute it a little better, kind of like you were saying. Most of the time it doesn't seem like the intensity is coming from directly behind me, but rather everywhere in the room, and even within me, as weird as that might sound LOL. Then again, maybe I'm just used to the effect IMO the very nearfield sub(s) is a godsend for those of us that have very large and less than desirable spaces to work with.

Also the TT's help with this. I 100% agree with having them aligned properly for them to blend in seamlessly for the most natural and realistic feel.

I think ereed is in a similar situation and has achieved a little closer to what he's looking for by moving his ported beasts right behind him, and now thinking about doing it with sealed instead for Very Nearfield + Farfield.

My "Blacked Out" Home Theater Room
1400cuft Sealed Room on Suspended Floor | SY Triple Black Velvet Blackout | GIK Treatments | Denon AVR-X6300H - 7.6.4 Atmos | KEF Q Series Speakers | Epson 5040UB 4K | Eyes 7' to 120" AT Seymour Screen | Oppo UDP-203 | Xbox One X | Apple TV 4K | 6x 18" Sealed DIY Subs | 6x Crowson MAs | 4x BK LFEs | BOSS 'Sub Riser' w/ 6x JBL-12s | MiniDSP 10x10HD
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post #10543 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post
I'm noticing the last few days this thread has gotten some traction with some posts. It has got me thinking about my current setup. I have just one Submerssive HP+. Personally I think it's got enough bass in the room as is. Room is 21' long, 17' wide, and a cathedral ceiling that peaks around 12'. See photo below for sound stage and link in sig for full theater. I originally had the sub on the right near that small curtain but moving it to the left sound stage a few months ago it's as if I have a brand new sub. It just hits so much harder. Doesn't make sense to me but hey...physics.

So, with that said, my question would be is it worth adding a second sub and if so where?
Place one in that dead spot near the curtain behind the right speaker?
Add one somewhere else?
Do nothing and just leave it alone?

I'm trying to justify adding the slave but as it stands, for my wife and myself it's dialed in well to where we sit so I'm not so much of a stickler of having an equal response throughout the room given it's only the one small row of seats and we sit in the same two seats typically. Am I missing anything else without having that second sub? I ask because I've never really used a multi-sub system before. I can jam the system to the point where I can get a dull ear ache and this thing absolutely never distorts to my ears. Is there any gain from the second sub with what I've said for my personal configuration and experience?


Almost exactly like my treated room except for whatever that is in front of the chairs. I have had 1 cornered loaded sub placed as per Mark's instruction for years and have felt no need to go chasing after another 2% for big bucks.
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post #10544 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
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Almost exactly like my treated room except for whatever that is in front of the chairs. I have had 1 cornered loaded sub placed as per Mark's instruction for years and have felt no need to go chasing after another 2% for big bucks.
What are "Mark's instructions?" I'm happy with the one but was just wondering if two or more are really worth it?

As for that thing in front of the seats, that's a racing simulator seat. Look up Fanatec (or just click my signature to see more of the rig in action). I didn't feel like posting a bunch of pics of my entire theater. I play racing simulators on the theater screen. I have these adhesives all over the bottom of the rig (forget the name of them) that allows me to slide that thing on the carpet with ease. I can move it with 2 fingers and just slide it over to the corner. It doesn't block any of the screen, the speakers, or the reclining capability of the seats. Here's it parked away on the side...


Thread to Build:Theater Build
Theater: Monitor Audio Platinum PL200/PL350C, Seaton Submerssive, 150" 3D Elite Screens +more
Living Room: Aperion Grand Verus, Outlaw LFM-1 EX, 75" Sony XBR75X940E +more
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post #10545 of 10805 Old 06-07-2017, 07:34 PM
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^^^ I'd love to have a Fanatec simulator chair like that! I have a wheel stand pro which is a bit easier to store out of sight.
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post #10546 of 10805 Old 06-08-2017, 03:34 AM
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Long time since I posted in this thread so I thought you may be interested in an amusing story about my dual Submersive F2s (master and slave).

I am in the process of building a new dedicated HT from scratch. This week we reached the stage where we could 'roadtest' the full 7.2.4 setup, basically just to check everything seems OK. So this test was run with no levels or delays properly set and without Dirac Live's magic EQ running.

Now my Submersives are at the back of the room and, ultimately, they will be behind an acoustically transparent stretch fabric 'wall'. This means that the controls on the plate amp will be difficult to reach once the room is finished. However, Mark had the foresight with the F2s to make arrangements for the plate amp to be on either side of the F2 as well as on the back, simply by removing a blanking plate and installing the amp, then using the blanking plate to fill the hole where the plate amp had been (on the back). So I duly removed the amp and set about re-installing it on the right side of the F2. Due to the nature of the internal bracing on the sub, I couldn't mount the amp the right way up, so I mounted it upside down. I tightened all the numerous screws and that was that. Took about 15 minutes and now the amp is more easily accessible to me.

I did this about 4 weeks ago and then forgot all about it. When we came to do the sound check the other day, I roughly set the Submersive's amp control to about 3 clicks from the bottom, which I figured would be good enough for the job in hand.

We then played the nightclub scene from John Wick. OMG. When the shooting started I thought the building was going to come down. Of course, what had happened was that I had sort of forgotten that the amp was upside down and had set the gain control to 3 clips from the top. I have never heard my Submersives play like this before! One thing is now for certain: even in a 3,500 cu ft room I ain't ever going to need more than two Submersives!
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post #10547 of 10805 Old 06-08-2017, 03:38 AM
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What are "Mark's instructions?" I'm happy with the one but was just wondering if two or more are really worth it?
After describing my room, place it in the corner about 2" from the walls and run Audyssey Room Correction. That's it! - been that away untouched for about 6 years. My surrounds do have powered bass to help with the all important mid bass >80 Hz.
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post #10548 of 10805 Old 06-08-2017, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
One thing is now for certain: even in a 3,500 cu ft room I ain't ever going to need more than two Submersives!
I have 4 subversives (HP master/slave & F2 master/slave) in my approx 2100cuft room(one in ea corner) but I didn't add the f2s for output but rather for the improved benefit in room response/balance. But I must say, reading posts like yours certainly makes me think.

If I recall my subjective observations after I added the F2s, I estimated that 1 sub got me to 30%, 2 subs to 70%, and 4 subs to 100% in terms of a seamless and balanced response/integration.
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post #10549 of 10805 Old 06-08-2017, 05:00 PM
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My Dayton EMM-6 XLR mic calibrated by CSL will be delivered tomorrow. Saturday we will be able to do CEA-2010 2m RMS groundplane measurements of the Submersive HP, the F18+, and the MFW-15 Turbo!

I'm hoping this will be helpful to folks trying to choose between F18+ vs Submersive or even combinations of both.

The F18+ system was an easy decision for me as I wanted more headroom below 30Hz vs my previous PSA setup (for sale in the classifieds). The ability to stack as well as the low cost of expansion with passive modules are a perfect fit now and into the future. I'm going ahead and ordering two more passive modules before the current pricing ends on June 15 even though I probably don't "need" them. Headroom is a wonderful thing.

Owning the MFW-15 Turbos gave me a reference point for Mark Seaton to explain what to expect out of the F18s. I feel smarter after every time I speak to Mark. He is trult gifted! As a former systems engineer I appreciate Mark's focus on designing unique system solutions vs just selling me-too boxes.
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post #10550 of 10805 Old 06-08-2017, 06:41 PM
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Master/Slave F18+ pair in black oak are now in the house! These will ultimately be going upstairs into my dedicated media room. For now they are in the open concept downstairs den. They are definitely more subwoofer than furniture but I love the modular design and they would even work well behind the seats in my den. Hopefully they don't shame MFWs!

I hosting GTGs on June 10 & 17 and performing CEA-2010 groundplane measurements starting June 9. The F18s will be the sealed reference sub (master and master+slave) to compare vs single ported 18s as well as my resident dual MFW-15 Turbos.

Rythmik FV18
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SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer meet

I am planning to measure the PSA S3000i and hopefully a Submersive HP as well. With the JTR measurements, we should have a reference for comparison to data-bass.com .

Sorry for the poor phone pics. I love the look of the carbon fiber driver which matches my Mirage OMDs. My son turns 4 in a few weeks, but I think these need to run grills off! 😎
I am interested to hear your thoughts on how these sound compared to the other slew of subs you have. Or does that have to wait for the GTG? You are killin me here with all those new subs you have that I would love to switch back and forth comparing

I have not been on the site much lately but I am curious about the new Rythmik you also have, I haven't had time to read that thread to see if you posted any thoughts on it yet. Looking forward to hearing what you think about all of these different subs or if they are all so close it is hard to tell them apart.
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post #10551 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 05:37 AM
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Can anyone help please?

Here is the content of an email I just sent to @Mark Seaton .

Hi Mark,

I am in the final stages of a new HT install and have encountered a strange problem.

I am getting no sound at all from my F2 master/slave subs (bought some time back - I am in the UK).

It is very odd because they were working when we tested them a few days ago - but today we came to do the final setup and there is nothing from my subs.

This is what I have done so far:

I have run the test tones from the AVR and all speakers are good except the subs.

When the test tone for the sub is running, the signal light on the subs is flickering green as normal.

The power light for the sub is on and green. Pgm button is in (also tried with it out).

I have checked that the mute button is in the in position (mute off) and it is. I have switched the mute button a few times.

I have checked all the cables for signal continuity (probably obvious as the signal light is flashing) and all are good.

I have removed the plate amp and checked the connections to the drivers - all seems good.

I have double checked the gain control on the master amp is not set to minimum (it is about halfway round).

The amp has been powered on for a few days and is nicely warm as I’d expect it to be.

There are no strange noises etc coming from anything.

I can’t think of anything else to check.

Is there something you can think of that would result in totally silent subs despite the signal light flickering when the test tone is running?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,

Keith


I am sure Mark will have some ideas, but while I am waiting for his reply to my email, I wonder if anyone else can shed any light? It is very odd because the subs were working properly on test a few days ago, and haven't been touched since, and yet today they are silent. Any advice gratefully received.

Last edited by kbarnes701; 06-15-2017 at 09:21 AM.
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post #10552 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Can anyone help please?



Here is the content of an email I just sent to Mark.



Hi Mark,



I am in the final stages of a new HT install and have encountered a strange problem.



I am getting no sound at all from my F2 master/slave subs (bought some time back - I am in the UK).



It is very odd because they were working when we tested them a few days ago - but today we came to do the final setup and there is nothing from my subs.



This is what I have done so far:



I have run the test tones from the AVR and all speakers are good except the subs.



When the test tone for the sub is running, the signal light on the subs is flickering green as normal.



The power light for the sub is on and green. Pgm button is in (also tried with it out).



I have checked that the mute button is in the in position (mute off) and it is. I have switched the mute button a few times.



I have checked all the cables for signal continuity (probably obvious as the signal light is flashing) and all are good.



I have removed the plate amp and checked the connections to the drivers - all seems good.



I have double checked the gain control on the master amp is not set to minimum (it is about halfway round).



The amp has been powered on for a few days and is nicely warm as I’d expect it to be.



There are no strange noises etc coming from anything.



I can’t think of anything else to check.



Is there something you can think of that would result in totally silent subs despite the signal light flickering when the test tone is running?



Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Many thanks,



Keith




I am sure Mark will have some ideas, but while I am waiting for his reply to my email, I wonder if anyone else can shed any light? It is very odd because the subs were working properly on test a few days ago, and haven't been touched since, and yet today they are silent. Any advice gratefully received.


I assume you have checked your connections and settings to the AVR? Did you try and unplug it and let sit for a minute and then try? Same thing with your AVR...


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post #10553 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 06:09 AM
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I assume you have checked your connections and settings to the AVR? Did you try and unplug it and let sit for a minute and then try? Same thing with your AVR...


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Thanks.

Pretty much exhausted the options there. The AVR seems to be working OK as the test tones for all the other speakers play OK and the signal light on the Submersive is flashing green, which indicates it is receiving a signal. Also connected the sub directly to the sub output on my Oppo BD player and ran a test tone there as well. Same result - no sound but signal light flickering. Really odd.
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post #10554 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 08:55 AM
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Thanks.

Pretty much exhausted the options there. The AVR seems to be working OK as the test tones for all the other speakers play OK and the signal light on the Submersive is flashing green, which indicates it is receiving a signal. Also connected the sub directly to the sub output on my Oppo BD player and ran a test tone there as well. Same result - no sound but signal light flickering. Really odd.
Maybe try a different XLR/RCA cable that connects the sub to the AVR. I know you said the signal light is flashing which should mean the cable it good but it couldn't hurt anything to try another cable temporarily just to rule that out.

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post #10555 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 08:57 AM
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Maybe try a different XLR/RCA cable that connects the sub to the AVR. I know you said the signal light is flashing which should mean the cable it good but it couldn't hurt anything to try another cable temporarily just to rule that out.


Good suggestion. Is a RCA/XLR connector being used?


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post #10556 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 08:59 AM
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Also, I would disconnect the slave if you have it connected just to eliminate 1 more variable. Maybe it is a fluke and the amp went out?

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post #10557 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 09:17 AM
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Maybe try a different XLR/RCA cable that connects the sub to the AVR. I know you said the signal light is flashing which should mean the cable it good but it couldn't hurt anything to try another cable temporarily just to rule that out.
Thanks. This is something I will try but first have to get hold of a new cable. I have checked the signal continuity with my meter however, and it is all good, kinda ruling out a cable issue.
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post #10558 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 09:19 AM
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Also, I would disconnect the slave if you have it connected just to eliminate 1 more variable. Maybe it is a fluke and the amp went out?
Thanks. Have disconnected slave - no different. The amp may have failed in some way but it would be real strange because it was working fine a few days ago and has just been standing by on idle since. And the amp shows no signs of any problems when I removed it to check. It is really weird. The strangest thing seems to be that the signal light is flickering when it receives the test tone from the AVR (and goes out if I stop the test tone) which would suggest that the signal is getting to the sub just fine, but then no sound is coming from the amp. It's exactly like the gain was zeroed or the mute button was out.

Last edited by kbarnes701; 06-15-2017 at 09:22 AM.
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post #10559 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 09:20 AM
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Good suggestion. Is a RCA/XLR connector being used?


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Yes - it is the adapter Mark supplies with the sub. Checks out fine with my meter.
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post #10560 of 10805 Old 06-15-2017, 09:28 AM
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Thanks. Have disconnected slave - no different. The amp may have failed in some way but it would be real strange because it was working fine a few days ago and has just been standing by on idle since. And the amp shows no signs of any problems when I removed it to check. It is really weird. The strangest thing seems to be that the signal light is flickering when it receives the test tone from the AVR (and goes out if I stop the test tone) which would suggest that the signal is getting to the sub just fine, but then no sound is coming from the amp. It's exactly like the gain was zeroed or the mute button was out.
Hi Keith,

I just responded to your e-mail from this morning with a few more suggestions to try, and an option for warranty service if required.
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