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post #10681 of 10805 Old 04-03-2018, 09:15 AM
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Just a random update. I picked up a SubM HP as a near field sub to use with my 4 DSS Marianna 18’s. Using a MiniDSP and adjusting levels and distances there before Audyssey XT32, they blend beautifully together. I know some people don’t thing the dual opposed may not give much tactile response, but they’d be wrong. The punch th SubM added is palpable and addictive. It’s still a nicely balanced system but when something happens, it can get violent.


Thanks Mark for the awesome product and assistance.
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post #10682 of 10805 Old 04-03-2018, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post
Just a random update. I picked up a SubM HP as a near field sub to use with my 4 DSS Marianna 18’s. Using a MiniDSP and adjusting levels and distances there before Audyssey XT32, they blend beautifully together. I know some people don’t thing the dual opposed may not give much tactile response, but they’d be wrong. The punch th SubM added is palpable and addictive. It’s still a nicely balanced system but when something happens, it can get violent.


Thanks Mark for the awesome product and assistance.
I wonder why? Better you than me.
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post #10683 of 10805 Old 04-03-2018, 01:14 PM
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@Snowmanick pictures please?

I want figure out how to integrate DO nearfield like Mark has!
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post #10684 of 10805 Old 04-09-2018, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
@Snowmanick pictures please?

I want figure out how to integrate DO nearfield like Mark has!
These aren’t the best pics. I have the four DSS in the rooms corners and the SubM HP behind the chaise section of the long couch, slightly to the left of the MLP. I put it here based off this giving me the smoothest FR with REW from the positions I tried. I’d tried all along the back of the couch and next to he chaise. The response is awesome. My wife wanted to see Geostorm (stupid film) and the couch was just alone for the whole second half.

The rest of the system is JBL Synthesis SCL-2 (L/R), SCL-4 (C/S/SB), Revel C763L’s and the four DSS Marianna 18S’ (passive models, powered by a SpeakerPower SP2-12000 on its own dedicated 20A/220V line).
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post #10685 of 10805 Old 04-09-2018, 02:55 PM
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And all my pics posted weird. Joys of posting from a phone I guess.
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post #10686 of 10805 Old 04-09-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post
These aren’t the best pics. I have the four DSS in the rooms corners and the SubM HP behind the chaise section of the long couch, slightly to the left of the MLP. I put it here based off this giving me the smoothest FR with REW from the positions I tried. I’d tried all along the back of the couch and next to he chaise. The response is awesome. My wife wanted to see Geostorm (stupid film) and the couch was just alone for the whole second half.

The rest of the system is JBL Synthesis SCL-2 (L/R), SCL-4 (C/S/SB), Revel C763L’s and the four DSS Marianna 18S’ (passive models, powered by a SpeakerPower SP2-12000 on its own dedicated 20A/220V line).
That looks like the perfect spot. It blends right in.

How does tactile effect change in different seating positions? Closer vs further away from the Submersive?

Also, did rotating the sub 90° to change the direction the drivers are firing make any difference?

I'm one who had trouble integrating dual-opposed nearfield. I glean whatever I can from Mark S.

Last edited by Marc Alexander; 04-09-2018 at 04:32 PM.
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post #10687 of 10805 Old 04-09-2018, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
That looks like the perfect spot. It blends right in.

How does tactile effect change in different seating positions? Closer vs further away from the Submersive?

Also, did rotating the sub 90° to change the direction the drivers are firing make any difference?

I'm one who had trouble integrating dual-opposed nearfield. I glean whatever I can from Mark S.
Tactility is pretty good along the couch. As you move further from the SubM you start getting closer to a wall that’s building up energy. I actually don’t like sitting next to the wall at times as it’s over powering. The chaise and the MLP are the two spots I tend to sit in most and it’s great there. It’s probably least noticeable in the seat on the other side of the MLP but before the wall. That’s my wife’s favorite seat though, so I don’t sit there often.

As for 90 degrees, the only place that I tried that when it was next to the arm of the couch on the side. I found it way too noticeable and locatable to the point of distraction there. Looking at the REW graphs showed it to be very lumpy, with a huge peak between 35-45Hz there and another peak at 90Hz. Those probably explain it.

Where it is now, I have a slight rise under 30 and it’s pretty smooth, +/- 3.5 dB from 13-100Hz. That’s post MiniDSP tweaking and Audyssey Pro. I use a small shelf filter to boost the really low stuff.
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Last edited by Snowmanick; 04-09-2018 at 04:45 PM.
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post #10688 of 10805 Old 04-14-2018, 09:17 AM
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Axpona

Any pix or video of Seaton's room at Axpona show?
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post #10689 of 10805 Old 04-14-2018, 05:54 PM
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Axpona 2018

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Any pix or video of Seaton's room at Axpona show?
Check with @SOWK .
There was a good WI contingent visiting him and JTR exhibits.
Got to meet Mark after hearing his speakers LONG ago at @funlvr1965 's house.

Mike
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post #10690 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 08:31 AM
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I'm very interested in the new, smaller sub that was shown at Axpona. Does anyone know the dimensions?
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post #10691 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 05:49 PM
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I'm very interested in the new, smaller sub that was shown at Axpona. Does anyone know the dimensions?
The JS-12 is 15" wide, 18" tall, and less than 14" deep with the magnetic grill in place. I'll add more info in the near future, but I did manage to get the basics up on the website earlier today. More information on the now available Spark & Ember series we had playing at AXPONA will be posted this week.


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post #10692 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 07:25 PM
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Great show at Axpona as always, Mark. Chances are that I'll be in for one in the near future. Thanks!

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post #10693 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 08:22 PM
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Forgive my ignorance, but why is the SubMersive HP so much more expensive then the F18 (even with the sale)? Isn’t the F18 technically the top Seaton sub if you have the space for it? Just curious if I am missing something. Thanks! Considering picking 1 up (or 2) after lurking the past few years.
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post #10694 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 08:55 PM
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I'm not sure everyone is already aware that online ordering is now enabled on www.seatonsound.net. This includes discounted Axpona demo subs and the new Junior Sub (JS12)!
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post #10695 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groto View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but why is the SubMersive HP so much more expensive then the F18 (even with the sale)? Isn’t the F18 technically the top Seaton sub if you have the space for it? Just curious if I am missing something. Thanks! Considering picking 1 up (or 2) after lurking the past few years.
A single Submersive HP or F2 have ~3dB more headroom >40Hz vs a F18+. The F18 a similar ~3dB headroom advantage <30Hz. They sound virtually identical to me below their limits.

For music, I'd lean Submersives and for cinema, F18s.
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post #10696 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Groto View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but why is the SubMersive HP so much more expensive then the F18 (even with the sale)? Isn’t the F18 technically the top Seaton sub if you have the space for it? Just curious if I am missing something. Thanks! Considering picking 1 up (or 2) after lurking the past few years.
A powered Submersive HP+ sub costs $2595, and can run one additional slave unit at $1395.

A powered F18+ sub costs $2395, and can drive up to three additional slave units at $1195 each.

Looks like there is a current sale where the F18+ is $2195, but I would expect the Submersives to cost more because they have two drivers versus one in the F18. Material costs are higher. Two custom Lab 15s in the Submersive versus a single Dayton Ultimax um18-22 in the F18.

IMO I don't think a single F18 will outdo a single Submersive, so you really need to get into three f18s or more for the option to make sense over the traditional Submersive->Submersive+slave option.
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post #10697 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
A single Submersive HP or F2 have ~3dB more headroom >40Hz vs a F18+. The F18 a similar ~3dB headroom advantage <30Hz. They sound virtually identical to me below their limits.

For music, I'd lean Submersives and for cinema, F18s.
Thanks Marc! I’m definitely doing both, but cinema much more often. My mains are Klipsch RF-7s which are pretty large enclosures that go pretty deep already. I think F18 makes most sense for me. Is 60hz typically what most scenarios set the crossover at? I’ve been out of this for awhile, forgive the dumb questions. I may start a thread with a post about my room later this week to get some more advice.
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Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
A powered Submersive HP+ sub costs $2595, and can run one additional slave unit at $1395.

A powered F18+ sub costs $2395, and can drive up to three additional slave units at $1195 each.

Looks like there is a current sale where the F18+ is $2195, but I would expect the Submersives to cost more because they have two drivers versus one in the F18. Material costs are higher. Two custom Lab 15s in the Submersive versus a single Dayton Ultimax um18-22 in the F18.

IMO I don't think a single F18 will outdo a single Submersive, so you really need to get into three f18s or more for the option to make sense over the traditional Submersive->Submersive+slave option.
Outdo above 40hz you mean?
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post #10699 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Groto View Post
Thanks Marc! I’m definitely doing both, but cinema much more often. My mains are Klipsch RF-7s which are pretty large enclosures that go pretty deep already. I think F18 makes most sense for me. Is 60hz typically what most scenarios set the crossover at? I’ve been out of this for awhile, forgive the dumb questions. I may start a thread with a post about my room later this week to get some more advice.
I recommend starting at 80Hz crossover, and using 90 or 100Hz if necessary.
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post #10700 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 09:36 PM
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I recommend starting at 80Hz crossover, and using 90 or 100Hz if necessary.

It must be too late at night, I knew 80 duh lol thanks
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post #10701 of 10805 Old 04-17-2018, 09:43 PM
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Outdo above 40hz you mean?
Its a choice for you to decide. If you had an unlimited budget I would suggest just buying enough Submersives till youve had your fill. Submersives have a fantastic upper bass quality, the f18 does better in the ultra low bass. Either way they are solid choices. General recommendation would be crossing over at 80Hz and then experiment from there.

What im trying to say if if you were only going to buy one sub, get a Submersive. If you can fit two, then get a master and a single slave F18.

The f18+and three slaves does deliver twice the deep bass capability of a pair of Submersives, powered by the same 4000w amp.
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post #10702 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groto View Post
Forgive my ignorance, but why is the SubMersive HP so much more expensive then the F18 (even with the sale)? Isn’t the F18 technically the top Seaton sub if you have the space for it? Just curious if I am missing something. Thanks! Considering picking 1 up (or 2) after lurking the past few years.
The pricing reflects real costs and where our inventory priorities currently are. The cost comparison really depends on if you are looking at individual boxes or the complete modular system. An F18+ and 2-3 F18-slaves are both more expensive solutions than a SubMersive HP+ & HP-Slave, you just have more options to break it up with the total being modular. As others pointed out, 2 drivers generally come out more expensive than 1, the finishing on the SubMersive is a little more involved, and there are two magnetic grills to be produced and wrapped.

We have a limited number of F18 parts in stock in addition to the AXPONA demos and we have more on the way. While the SubMersive models still have some very attractive attributes, the F18 currently offers the better value to customers, especially if you ever plan to have 2 or more subwoofers in the room.
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post #10703 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I'm not sure everyone is already aware that online ordering is now enabled on www.seatonsound.net. This includes discounted Axpona demo subs and the new Junior Sub (JS12)!
Thank you Marc. I still have more detail to post, along with our new speaker models and accessories such as cables, but I believe we finally have flat rate shipping in place making things functional for items I have already posted.
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post #10704 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
A single Submersive HP or F2 have ~3dB more headroom >40Hz vs a F18+. The F18 a similar ~3dB headroom advantage <30Hz. They sound virtually identical to me below their limits.

For music, I'd lean Submersives and for cinema, F18s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
A powered Submersive HP+ sub costs $2595, and can run one additional slave unit at $1395.

A powered F18+ sub costs $2395, and can drive up to three additional slave units at $1195 each.

Looks like there is a current sale where the F18+ is $2195, but I would expect the Submersives to cost more because they have two drivers versus one in the F18. Material costs are higher. Two custom Lab 15s in the Submersive versus a single Dayton Ultimax um18-22 in the F18.

IMO I don't think a single F18 will outdo a single Submersive, so you really need to get into three f18s or more for the option to make sense over the traditional Submersive->Submersive+slave option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
The pricing reflects real costs and where our inventory priorities currently are. The cost comparison really depends on if you are looking at individual boxes or the complete modular system. An F18+ and 2-3 F18-slaves are both more expensive solutions than a SubMersive HP+ & HP-Slave, you just have more options to break it up with the total being modular. As others pointed out, 2 drivers generally come out more expensive than 1, the finishing on the SubMersive is a little more involved, and there are two magnetic grills to be produced and wrapped.

We have a limited number of F18 parts in stock in addition to the AXPONA demos and we have more on the way. While the SubMersive models still have some very attractive attributes, the F18 currently offers the better value to customers, especially if you ever plan to have 2 or more subwoofers in the room.
Thanks to everyone for the information yesterday.

I decided to start a dedicated theater thread. Please take a look if you get a chance. I am looking for some advice regarding quick wins for acoustics in my set up so that it will sound good when I add Seaton subwoofers until I do a full remodel longer term.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...er-thread.html

Thanks!!
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post #10705 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 03:27 PM
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Forgot to ask... I live within driving distance of Seaton Sound. If I order online or via the phone am I able to pick up the sub(s) at Seaton Sound or is shipping the only option?

Does anyone know what the return policy is (if there is one)? Not finding much information on the site.

Thanks
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post #10706 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groto View Post
Forgot to ask... I live within driving distance of Seaton Sound. If I order online or via the phone am I able to pick up the sub(s) at Seaton Sound or is shipping the only option?

Does anyone know what the return policy is (if there is one)? Not finding much information on the site.

Thanks
Local pickup is actually preferred I'm sure.

Mark doesn't advertise a trial period (he's not like PSA in that regard), but does aim for 100% customer satisfaction. Definitely reach out and discuss with him directly.
Code:
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Last edited by Marc Alexander; 04-18-2018 at 04:01 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Local pickup is actually preferred I'm sure.

Mark doesn't advertise a trial period (he's not like PSA in that regard), but does aim for 100% customer satisfaction. Definitely reach out and discuss with him directly.
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Will do! Thanks
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post #10708 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 07:27 PM
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F18's look awesome but the only way I'd be able to fit them would be sideways on each side of my tv stand with the drivers pointing left and right which would look really stupid.
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post #10709 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 07:39 PM
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F18's look awesome but the only way I'd be able to fit them would be sideways on each side of my tv stand with the drivers pointing left and right which would look really stupid.
I did that and I never thought it looked stupid. It actually looked better.
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post #10710 of 10805 Old 04-18-2018, 09:23 PM
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Wow, awesome, and with some great speakers too Mirage OMD-28 that must sound really good. I may have to rethink this then thanks for the pictures.
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