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post #8551 of 8734 Old 06-07-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by HsuKevin View Post
The sub puts out about 121.1 dB @ 50 Hz, burst at 1 meter away (113.1 dB 2 meter rms), so it's not a slouch in that arena. That is a bit odd. Though I would usually say going from a 12" 200w to a 350w 12", would play a bit louder and cleaner in the mid-bass, but it's not a huge night and day difference, imo.
The problem is it IS a night and day difference... (The 200watt is also max, not rms, so I would think it would be a significant difference) Just in the opposite direction I was hoping. I was assuming that this sub would just kill my old sub in every area. The 50hz is a guess. I really don't know what the actual frequency is that is missing from the experience. For reference, a gunshot and kick drum is where it really falls short of expectations. The Pinnacle you can see the curtains move from the port, and the hsu just sits pretending to be a badass lol.

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Have you ever taken a measured response of the sub in room at your listening position?
No. I don't have any instruments for doing that.

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Have you tried different placements?
I really don't have options for different placements. We have a massive sectional that takes up 13 of the 17 feet and leaves no room for anything but our end table. I'd have to talk to my wife about using it as an end table, but I doubt that'll slide. I did walk around the room and didn't notice anything significantly different. Also would placement matter at all if only comparing to a different sub in the same location?

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Have you tried using the test CD 80 Hz and adjust the distance on the receiver to make sure everything is in phase?
I put the CD in and literally thought the subwoofer was not working. I had to place my hand on the grill to even feel the vibrations. Touching the top of the sub I couldn't feel anything. That was at 9:00 gain and was the first thing I played on it. Haven't played it since, so I guess I could try that again. I did adjust the distance, but it seems accurate from YPAO. Not sure what to listen for when adjusting phase. I'm not terribly experienced when it comes to audio adjustments.
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post #8552 of 8734 Old 06-07-2019, 01:32 PM
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Whoops misread that, sorry! 1 foot is fine.


When is that new dual 15 sealed sub is coming out? .

Hints welcome.




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post #8553 of 8734 Old 06-07-2019, 01:38 PM
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[QUOTE=HsuKevin;58153692]
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Could anyone tell me what issues I may encounter trying to incorporate dual ULS-15 mk2 into my dual ULS-15 mk1 set up? And also, what would be the best/most advised way of doing so?
The ULS-15 Mk2 plays significantly louder and cleaner across the majority of the freq spectrum, so the main thing you might run into is the original ULS-15 bottlenecking the ULS-15 Mk2. Otherwise, it's pretty similar to integrating two subs in the room. Do you have a receiver with independent bass management (allows you to set different distances between the two subs)?
Does this essentially mean that the mk2 will play or be limited to outputting only as much as the mk1? If so then I dont mind one bit.

But question, would only 2 mk2s be better than 2 mk2s and 2 mk1s?

Also I will be using a mini dsp HD to set them up.
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post #8554 of 8734 Old 06-07-2019, 02:17 PM
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The problem is it IS a night and day difference... (The 200watt is also max, not rms, so I would think it would be a significant difference) Just in the opposite direction I was hoping. I was assuming that this sub would just kill my old sub in every area. The 50hz is a guess. I really don't know what the actual frequency is that is missing from the experience. For reference, a gunshot and kick drum is where it really falls short of expectations. The Pinnacle you can see the curtains move from the port, and the hsu just sits pretending to be a badass lol.



No. I don't have any instruments for doing that.



I really don't have options for different placements. We have a massive sectional that takes up 13 of the 17 feet and leaves no room for anything but our end table. I'd have to talk to my wife about using it as an end table, but I doubt that'll slide. I did walk around the room and didn't notice anything significantly different. Also would placement matter at all if only comparing to a different sub in the same location?



I put the CD in and literally thought the subwoofer was not working. I had to place my hand on the grill to even feel the vibrations. Touching the top of the sub I couldn't feel anything. That was at 9:00 gain and was the first thing I played on it. Haven't played it since, so I guess I could try that again. I did adjust the distance, but it seems accurate from YPAO. Not sure what to listen for when adjusting phase. I'm not terribly experienced when it comes to audio adjustments.
OK. So when you first stated your issue, you said that YPAO set your speakers to Large, did you set them back to small? If not, please do so. Also make sure the crossover is set to 80 Hz. So if you don't have a dBSPL meter, you would basically listen to the test tones from 80 Hz to 20 Hz. If you notice that the bass is not very loud in the 50-80 Hz but below that it starts getting louder, that means you're running into a room null or your sub may be cancelling out with your speakers due to phase. So what you would need to do first is play the 80 Hz, and adjust the distance gradually by a foot on your receiver. At certain times, you may hear the tone get louder and then softer. Basically whatever distance setting gives you the loudest tone, that's where the distance should be set. Make sure the phase on the sub is set to 0.

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Originally Posted by tidwelr1 View Post
When is that new dual 15 sealed sub is coming out? .

Hints welcome.




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Still working on different iterations and features. Not sure on the date of release yet. I'll let you know as soon as I have info on that!

[quote=Kimwyn;58154612]
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Does this essentially mean that the mk2 will play or be limited to outputting only as much as the mk1? If so then I dont mind one bit.

But question, would only 2 mk2s be better than 2 mk2s and 2 mk1s?

Also I will be using a mini dsp HD to set them up.
Correct! You can lower the volume of the ULS-15 original to better match, but they probably won't be 100% matched. 2 Mk2's will be better than one of each as you can better match the two and they will both likely deliver a bit more output overall.
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post #8555 of 8734 Old 06-07-2019, 02:31 PM
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OK. So when you first stated your issue, you said that YPAO set your speakers to Large, did you set them back to small? If not, please do so. Also make sure the crossover is set to 80 Hz. So if you don't have a dBSPL meter, you would basically listen to the test tones from 80 Hz to 20 Hz. If you notice that the bass is not very loud in the 50-80 Hz but below that it starts getting louder, that means you're running into a room null or your sub may be cancelling out with your speakers due to phase. So what you would need to do first is play the 80 Hz, and adjust the distance gradually by a foot on your receiver. At certain times, you may hear the tone get louder and then softer. Basically whatever distance setting gives you the loudest tone, that's where the distance should be set. Make sure the phase on the sub is set to 0.
Yeah I switched them to small again. It changes them every time I use YPAO, and I have to change them again. That's unique to this sub as well. Have never had that happen before.

Ok I won't be home until Monday, but I'll check that out. Doesn't the distance affect the timing of the signal? Or is it just the phase? Should I adjust up or down or both to see what works?
Is this going to negatively affect the sub 30hz tones? Am I looking at a compromise between the two?

I appreciate the tips. I really hope they work. I'd love to sell my old sub and not have spent a bunch on a sub that isn't what I wanted 😂.
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post #8556 of 8734 Old 06-07-2019, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Yeah I switched them to small again. It changes them every time I use YPAO, and I have to change them again. That's unique to this sub as well. Have never had that happen before.

Ok I won't be home until Monday, but I'll check that out. Doesn't the distance affect the timing of the signal? Or is it just the phase? Should I adjust up or down or both to see what works?
Is this going to negatively affect the sub 30hz tones? Am I looking at a compromise between the two?

I appreciate the tips. I really hope they work. I'd love to sell my old sub and not have spent a bunch on a sub that isn't what I wanted 😂.
Awesome! Yea I hope we can get that up and working for you. Usually the receiver sets the speakers to large if they feel that the speakers are providing sufficient extension. You're right in that the distance selection changes the timing, but that also affects the phase alignment. What I would do is have it set initially to its actual distance from you and then make the adjustment from there either way. It probably won't affect the 30 Hz, it would be more the mid-bass 60-100 Hz. That tends to be where the punch resides (from explosions/kick drums/etc).
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post #8557 of 8734 Old 06-10-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Yeah I switched them to small again. It changes them every time I use YPAO, and I have to change them again. That's unique to this sub as well. Have never had that happen before.

Ok I won't be home until Monday, but I'll check that out. Doesn't the distance affect the timing of the signal? Or is it just the phase? Should I adjust up or down or both to see what works?
Is this going to negatively affect the sub 30hz tones? Am I looking at a compromise between the two?

I appreciate the tips. I really hope they work. I'd love to sell my old sub and not have spent a bunch on a sub that isn't what I wanted 😂.
Awesome! Yea I hope we can get that up and working for you. Usually the receiver sets the speakers to large if they feel that the speakers are providing sufficient extension. You're right in that the distance selection changes the timing, but that also affects the phase alignment. What I would do is have it set initially to its actual distance from you and then make the adjustment from there either way. It probably won't affect the 30 Hz, it would be more the mid-bass 60-100 Hz. That tends to be where the punch resides (from explosions/kick drums/etc).
Ok so I messed around with the phase and distance and such an no real luck. Then I decided to actually do the sub crawl.. For science. It is currently in literally the worst place in the entire room except the center of the room. I'll have to talk to my wife about different placement. I'm still getting dips around 50-60 hz and 68-75 where it drops off. Also around 30 hz and lower when running this test tone generator https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
It sounds BETTER when I stand in the corner, but still not like my old sub punch wise. That could be me being acclamated to humps in my other speakers. IDK at the moment. Watching the hospital explosion scene in the dark Knight, I still can't really FEEL the shotgun, but definitely feel the room pressurize for the collapse. One thing I noticed I thought I would ask about is at 22 hz or so, the driver seems to be making a flapping nose. Like a helicopter. Maybe it's chuffing? I can't tell as I've never had that happen on a sub before. Gain is at 10:00. Sub level at -5dB. How do I tell if it is chuffing?
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post #8558 of 8734 Old 06-10-2019, 02:35 PM
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1--G...w?usp=drivesdk this is 32hz

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post #8559 of 8734 Old 06-10-2019, 04:38 PM
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Advice request: I have an challenging room, and I use Dirac for room correction. I have a VTF-15H MK2 (which I love) up front.

Would I hear any improvement (generally speaking) by adding something like a VTF-2 MK5? I have about 13' behind my seating position, and I'd probably put it back there somewhere. I don't want anything as large as the VTF-15H to be the "secondary" sub. And I'd connect it to Sub2 on my Emotiva XMC-1.

Thanks for your feedback
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post #8560 of 8734 Old 06-10-2019, 08:06 PM
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Wow it sounds like something not quite right. Mine does not do that. Maybe Kevin can chime in on this?

Please also take a photo of the settings of the knobs and switches on the back when you get a chance.
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post #8561 of 8734 Old 06-11-2019, 03:53 AM
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Wow it sounds like something not quite right. Mine does not do that. Maybe Kevin can chime in on this?

Please also take a photo of the settings of the knobs and switches on the back when you get a chance.
I think I put this in the other thread, but here are my settings. I put q back to .3 though
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post #8562 of 8734 Old 06-11-2019, 10:12 AM
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I think I put this in the other thread, but here are my settings. I put q back to .3 though
Thanks. I missed it in the other thread but your settings look good for troubleshooting purposes.

That noise is definitely not chuffing. It almost sounds like there is a leak in the amp plate or it is rattling around. Maybe Kevin can help you determine if you've got a faulty unit. I guarantee you my VTF 2.5 doesn't sound anything like that.
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post #8563 of 8734 Old 06-11-2019, 10:41 AM
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I think I put this in the other thread, but here are my settings. I put q back to .3 though
Thanks. I missed it in the other thread but your settings look good for troubleshooting purposes.

That noise is definitely not chuffing. It almost sounds like there is a leak in the amp plate or it is rattling around. Maybe Kevin can help you determine if you've got a faulty unit. I guarantee you my VTF 2.5 doesn't sound anything like that.
wouldn't it be great if that was my biggest problem all along? I think I got the green light on a different sub placement from my wife though, so that'll be nice.
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post #8564 of 8734 Old 06-11-2019, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose View Post
Advice request: I have an challenging room, and I use Dirac for room correction. I have a VTF-15H MK2 (which I love) up front.

Would I hear any improvement (generally speaking) by adding something like a VTF-2 MK5? I have about 13' behind my seating position, and I'd probably put it back there somewhere. I don't want anything as large as the VTF-15H to be the "secondary" sub. And I'd connect it to Sub2 on my Emotiva XMC-1.

Thanks for your feedback
The VTF-2 Mk5 won't play quite as loud or as clean as the VTF-15H Mk2. Having it closer to your seating position can help though as you may not have to turn it up as much to get the same level as if you were to place the sub in the front with your VTF-15H Mk2, so the main issue you need to consider is bottlenecking the 15. What are you looking to get by adding the VTF-2 Mk5?

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Ok so I messed around with the phase and distance and such an no real luck. Then I decided to actually do the sub crawl.. For science. It is currently in literally the worst place in the entire room except the center of the room. I'll have to talk to my wife about different placement. I'm still getting dips around 50-60 hz and 68-75 where it drops off. Also around 30 hz and lower when running this test tone generator https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
It sounds BETTER when I stand in the corner, but still not like my old sub punch wise. That could be me being acclamated to humps in my other speakers. IDK at the moment. Watching the hospital explosion scene in the dark Knight, I still can't really FEEL the shotgun, but definitely feel the room pressurize for the collapse. One thing I noticed I thought I would ask about is at 22 hz or so, the driver seems to be making a flapping nose. Like a helicopter. Maybe it's chuffing? I can't tell as I've never had that happen on a sub before. Gain is at 10:00. Sub level at -5dB. How do I tell if it is chuffing?
Can you give us a call? I'd like you to speak with our tech in regards to this.

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post #8565 of 8734 Old 06-12-2019, 08:29 AM
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Thanks to the wonderful CS I have received from Kevin and Dr. HSU, just ordered a VTF-2 Mk5 for my bedroom setup. Thanks HSU!
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post #8566 of 8734 Old 06-13-2019, 05:56 AM
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Can you give us a call? I'd like you to speak with our tech in regards to this.
Might have been you I spoke with on the phone, but I've got a replacement on the way. Thanks.
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post #8567 of 8734 Old 06-13-2019, 07:08 AM
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Can you give us a call? I'd like you to speak with our tech in regards to this.
Might have been you I spoke with on the phone, but I've got a replacement on the way. Thanks.
On the phone it was mentioned to put the sub on it's side on a towel to get the driver close to the floor. This makes a larger footprint. Would it also be acceptable to place it upside down?
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post #8568 of 8734 Old 06-13-2019, 10:36 AM
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Might have been you I spoke with on the phone, but I've got a replacement on the way. Thanks.
Please keep us posted on how the replacement sounds.

And just out of my personal curiosity could you share a couple of the test tracks you used so I can check on my sub how they sound?

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post #8569 of 8734 Old 06-13-2019, 12:05 PM
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On the phone it was mentioned to put the sub on it's side on a towel to get the driver close to the floor. This makes a larger footprint. Would it also be acceptable to place it upside down?
Sure can.

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post #8570 of 8734 Old 06-13-2019, 12:56 PM
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Might have been you I spoke with on the phone, but I've got a replacement on the way. Thanks.
Please keep us posted on how the replacement sounds.
I already tested the sub in the corner after doing the sub crawl. MUCH better. In order to get the receiver to set the sub level to -7.5dB the volume was about in the 7:00 position, so barely on. I turned it up to a little past 9:00 because, well I like bass. I was feeling ok punch (enough that I may be just used to a hump there but not amazingly satisfying), but there is still a definite dip in a few spots using a tone generator. Will update when new one arrives. Should be in Tuesday 😁

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And just out of my personal curiosity could you share a couple of the test tracks you used so I can check on my sub how they sound?
Test tracks:
Tokyo - faul and wad https://youtu.be/i2TleEkObRA

Breaking a sweat - skrillex zedd remix
https://youtu.be/VjEzaV2JmcU
(If you have Google play music, the version on the clarity deluxe edition album is better. Can't link it for some reason and I can't seem to find it anymore, but it is in my library)

Worth dying for - rise against
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk...&feature=share

99 red balloons - goldfinger
https://youtu.be/p-qfzH0vnOs

Empty threat - chvrches
https://youtu.be/vDuu2bGiUSo

https://youtu.be/BcyXE5xPbDk

Pop 101 -Marianas trench
https://youtu.be/yBDNvlvR8vA

To name a few.

Movie scenes I use the dark Knight hospital explosion scene.. The shotgun and car wreck in the beginning of the scene delivers a big punch on my friend's 12" Klipsch (mid range, I believe).
I'm not well versed in testing these things, but the final explosion of the hospital is where my old sub (and my friend's) would really drop off, so I like using it.
I like the first battle on edge of tomorrow a a surround test as a whole. I'm open to other suggestions and planned on checking out The list here. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-s...763785?page=13
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post #8571 of 8734 Old 06-13-2019, 03:22 PM
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Just listened to all the tracks and they sounded great to me.

Just to give you a little background I was a car audio bass head throughout the 90's. 1000 watt+ amp and had a range of subs in my car going from 4x10's to 2x15's.
I listened to a lot of bass heavy rap, hip hop, and whatever junk people were listening to back then. Broke the rear view mirror off my windshield regularly.

Given that my taste in music and amounts of bass has changed since then, I am still familiar with what a good quantity of bass is. While this thing will not compete with something like a JTR Captivator, Mono 15, or even its bigger brothers in the VTF3 series, it certainly is no slouch in the sub and midbass department.

This suggests that either the sub you had was defective or you have the worst case scenario room placement. I'm banking on defective sub. Can't wait to find out on Tuesday. Good luck!
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post #8572 of 8734 Old 06-15-2019, 10:42 AM
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Another question as I am really trying not to have to change from my ULS-15 mk1s. Would 3 ULS-15 mk1s provide more output and punch than 2 ULS-15 mk2?

I currently have 2 mk1s and have a friend that has an mk1 with a bad amp. I can purchase an amp from HSU for around 375 I think they said which would mean I have 3 mk1s. But on hearing about the mk2 I'm wondering if 2 mk2s would be better than 3 mk1s.

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post #8573 of 8734 Old 06-18-2019, 10:09 AM
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Hey Kevin, could you provide any feedback on my query?
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post #8574 of 8734 Old 06-18-2019, 02:27 PM
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Another question as I am really trying not to have to change from my ULS-15 mk1s. Would 3 ULS-15 mk1s provide more output and punch than 2 ULS-15 mk2?

I currently have 2 mk1s and have a friend that has an mk1 with a bad amp. I can purchase an amp from HSU for around 375 I think they said which would mean I have 3 mk1s. But on hearing about the mk2 I'm wondering if 2 mk2s would be better than 3 mk1s.
I would say that if they perfectly reinforce each other, they would be pretty similar in terms of punch and output in the mid-bass. In the deeper bass, three ULS-15's may play a bit louder and cleaner by a few dB in the low end rumble, but the ULS-15 MK2's may play a bit louder and cleaner in the ultra deep bass.
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post #8575 of 8734 Old 06-19-2019, 11:27 AM
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Am I better getting the SVS PB 1000 or the VTF-1 MK3? Not sure which one has a lower Hz. Wanting to pick up something next week.
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post #8576 of 8734 Old 06-19-2019, 12:18 PM
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I have a question for Kevin again. While reviewing the scores of the ULS mk2 on your site, I happened to notice that the scores are very close to some of the subs on data-bass which are supposed to be way louder. But upon further research, I read that data-bass measures at 2m while your scores were at 1m.

Is there a reason for this? Because I was mightily impressed with where the mk2 ranked until I saw that the scores you have in the website is from only 1m.

Last edited by Mike Lang; 06-22-2019 at 06:44 AM.
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post #8577 of 8734 Old 06-19-2019, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by buckeye1966 View Post
Am I better getting the SVS PB 1000 or the VTF-1 MK3? Not sure which one has a lower Hz. Wanting to pick up something next week.
You're asking in a Hsu owners thread whether to get a VTF-1 Mk3 or an SVS PB1000?

The VTF-1 has a measured 3dB down point at 22 Hz (Audioholics, 1 port open, EQ1, q = 0.7), just as Hsu claims. SVS claims 19 Hz for the PB 1000. I haven't found a comparable review, but it looks like the 3dB point may be more like 22 Hz, just like the Hsu.

My suggestion? A VTF-2 Mk5. (The VTF-1 is $455 shipped, the VTF-2 is $607.) It's a 12" sub, and it'll play a lot lower than either 10" sub that you have listed.
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Last edited by bobknavs; 06-19-2019 at 09:42 PM.
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post #8578 of 8734 Old 06-19-2019, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
I already tested the sub in the corner after doing the sub crawl. MUCH better. In order to get the receiver to set the sub level to -7.5dB the volume was about in the 7:00 position, so barely on. I turned it up to a little past 9:00 because, well I like bass. I was feeling ok punch (enough that I may be just used to a hump there but not amazingly satisfying), but there is still a definite dip in a few spots using a tone generator. Will update when new one arrives. Should be in Tuesday 😁
Did the new sub make it? Does it sound any better?
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post #8579 of 8734 Old 06-20-2019, 01:51 PM
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Can't wait to find out on Tuesday. Good luck!
Sigh.... Not sure what is going on here, but there new sub started the same ticking noise today. I haven't even had this one higher than 11:00 ever. It seemed a bit better, but still not hitting as hard. I think a huge part of that is my room. 50-60 hz is just about dead and below 30 drops hard as well(could be my hearing?). Another part of the room hits the 50-60 and loses everything else. Not sure what else to do but just love with it. Although I would like to know what is causing the ticking. It didn't have the ticking when I first used it, but it's back today.

Last edited by Mike Lang; 06-22-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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post #8580 of 8734 Old 06-20-2019, 02:48 PM
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Full disclosure, for some odd reason the forum is not displaying the S's correctly (tested on multiple computers). Please excuse me if I misunderstand or if I do not tackle your question properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post
I have a question for Kevin again. While reviewing the scores of the ULS mk2 on your site, I happened to notice that the scores are very close to some of the subs on data-bass which are supposed to be way louder. But upon further research, I read that data-bass measures at 2m while your scores were at 1m.

Is there a reason for this? Because I was mightily impressed with where the mk2 ranked until I saw that the scores you have in the website is from only 1m.
That's actually how it's measured and how we were told to report the data. When we initially adopted that system of measurement, we worked alongside Don Keele, who came up with basic testing methodology and developed the main program used to measure. So we're going off of what he taught/confirmed to us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kingssoldier08 View Post
Sigh.... Not sure what is going on here, but there new sub started the same ticking noise today. I haven't even had this one higher than 11:00 ever. It seemed a bit better, but still not hitting as hard. I think a huge part of that is my room. 50-60 hz is just about dead and below 30 drops hard as well(could be my hearing?). Another part of the room hits the 50-60 and loses everything else. Not sure what else to do but just love with it. Although I would like to know what is causing the ticking. It didn't have the ticking when I first used it, but it's back today.
Have you tried the 31.5 Hz test tone from the Hsu BAS Test CD?
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Last edited by Mike Lang; 06-22-2019 at 06:46 AM.
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