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post #8701 of 8778 Old 09-12-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HsuKevin View Post
Looks like you're closer to the right wall than you are to the left. I would actually try keeping one sub in the front right and you can try the other sub in the back right corner to see if that gives you a better punch. You can also try placing one of the subs in the front left (where you had the old sub placed) and one in the back right.







Good question. If I were to choose between the two, it would be dual ULS-15 MK2's as they would be able to give you more clean output overall, especially in the mid-bass. That being said the VTF-2 Mk5 would play slightly louder and cleaner from 20 Hz on down. It really comes down to how much clean output you need.







PB-16 is a great sub, so that's definitely a good option to go with. Not sure what 15" you have now, so I can't really comment, but Audioholics did do a pretty in depth review on the sub here:



https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...ltra-subwoofer



Note that if you're trying to compare the CEA-2010 to our numbers, make sure you subtract 9 dB from our measurements posted on the site to get them at the same standard. Also note that there are differences in comparing two data sets from two different environments, so I wouldn't try to take those measurements and try to compare them strictly with each other. It more or less serves to give as a general idea. If you have the ULS-15 Mk2's, the same reviewer measured that sub as well, so those sets may be closer to each other in comparison. Also, since you have two 15's, that also needs to be taken into consideration. How much increase in output you get with two largely depends on room acoustics, but on average you can gain 3-4 dB or 6 dB if they perfectly reinforce each other.
The layout I posted, doesn't really show the room I have available for a second sub. There's no room on the back wall with the recliners, and no other spot up front, other than the front right of the room. The only way I can have 2 subs, is shown in the layout. If that doesn't seem like a good idea, then I'll stick with one sub.

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post #8702 of 8778 Old 09-12-2019, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglen View Post
The layout I posted, doesn't really show the room I have available for a second sub. There's no room on the back wall with the recliners, and no other spot up front, other than the front right of the room. The only way I can have 2 subs, is shown in the layout. If that doesn't seem like a good idea, then I'll stick with one sub.

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Oh OK. I thought you had more freedom of placement, but if not then front right and left should be fine. It's not so much that I think it's a bad idea per se, more like there may be other configurations that may possibly give you better results. Each room is different though.

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post #8703 of 8778 Old 09-18-2019, 11:49 AM
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Question Hsu VTF-1 MK3 discontinued... What's next? :)

I noticed the other day that the VTF-1 MK3 subwoofer has been listed as "discontinued" and isn't available from Hsu's site anymore. Anybody know if there's a MK4 in the works, or perhaps an all-new budget model? I'm planning to get a pair of smaller subs (think VTF-1, SVS SB1000, Rythmik L12) for my 2-channel system, and the VTF-1s looked like the best bang (or boom) for the buck. Should I wait?

Thanks!

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post #8704 of 8778 Old 09-18-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cgramer View Post
I noticed the other day that the VTF-1 MK3 subwoofer has been listed as "discontinued" and isn't available from Hsu's site anymore. Anybody know if there's a MK4 in the works, or perhaps an all-new budget model? I'm planning to get a pair of smaller subs (think VTF-1, SVS SB1000, Rythmik L12) for my 2-channel system, and the VTF-1s looked like the best bang (or boom) for the buck. Should I wait?

Thanks!
I know no more than you about the VTF-1 Mk3. Maybe Kevin from Hsu will weigh in.

I'd add the RSL Speedwoofer 10S to your list, although it's out of stock until October. It's small, prettier than most (IMHO), and it comes with free shipping.

I had a VTF-1 Mk3, paired with a VTF-1 Mk2 (down firing). My use is home theater (7.2.4 Atmos), and I found the VTF-1s lacking for that. I replaced them with a pair of VTF-3 Mk5s, which made a large difference. A pair of VTF-2 Mk5s might provide the most "bang for the buck". Unfortunately, the VTF-2 and VTF-3 are not small.
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post #8705 of 8778 Old 09-18-2019, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
A pair of VTF-2 Mk5s might provide the most "bang for the buck". Unfortunately, the VTF-2 and VTF-3 are not small.
I guess I was thinking "small" more in terms of price. And you're right, the VTF-2 is less expensive than I remembered, competitive with the SB-1000, particularly when you buy a pair. Thanks!

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post #8706 of 8778 Old 09-18-2019, 02:29 PM
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Hi all,


I am not sure if it is ok to partially cross post here, but I wanted to ask the dedicated HSU group a question I also posted in another thread (here), in case not everyone saw it.


My VTF-3 Mk5 arrived today and I will be playing with it...er, I mean setting it up, shortly.


My question is that somewhere I read that for rooms like mine, that can fully closed off, I am better off started with a lower Q, like.5 or even .3 to prevent my AVR from dialing it back too far. Is there any logic to this, or should I stick with the instructions it came with? With all the possible combinations of EQ, Q, phase and volume,it feels a little daunting and, to be honest, I am just excited to have it set and enjoy it.



Thanks!!
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post #8707 of 8778 Old 09-19-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgramer View Post
I noticed the other day that the VTF-1 MK3 subwoofer has been listed as "discontinued" and isn't available from Hsu's site anymore. Anybody know if there's a MK4 in the works, or perhaps an all-new budget model?
I've never seen Hsu list a subwoofer as discontinued when they were making an update so my guess is there won't be an MK 4, but I'm sure Kevin will answer and clarify.

 
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post #8708 of 8778 Old 09-19-2019, 03:14 PM
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I just bought a new Pioneer Elite receiver, to replace a Denon. I have a VTF-2 MK4, and I know what settings to use for Audessey, so do I use the same for MCACC?

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post #8709 of 8778 Old 09-19-2019, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by biglen View Post
I just bought a new Pioneer Elite receiver, to replace a Denon. I have a VTF-2 MK4, and I know what settings to use for Audessey, so do I use the same for MCACC?

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Which pioneer did you get? I have an 801 and 501. Mcacc is a lot different between the two. The 801 sets the subs well but the 501 doesn't( it neuters the sub). I have to run the mcacc in the 501 without the sub and then add it after the fact and adjust it from there. The 801 with the mcacc pro sets it up great. I like it a little heavier so I up it a few dbs but that's it.
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post #8710 of 8778 Old 09-19-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Losifanatic View Post
Which pioneer did you get? I have an 801 and 501. Mcacc is a lot different between the two. The 801 sets the subs well but the 501 doesn't( it neuters the sub). I have to run the mcacc in the 501 without the sub and then add it after the fact and adjust it from there. The 801 with the mcacc pro sets it up great. I like it a little heavier so I up it a few dbs but that's it.
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post #8711 of 8778 Old 09-20-2019, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post
I've never seen Hsu list a subwoofer as discontinued when they were making an update so my guess is there won't be an MK 4, but I'm sure Kevin will answer and clarify.
Unfortunately, we had to make the decision to discontinue the VTF-1 series subwoofers indefinitely. There are no plans for a Mk4.

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I just bought a new Pioneer Elite receiver, to replace a Denon. I have a VTF-2 MK4, and I know what settings to use for Audessey, so do I use the same for MCACC?

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Yes you do.
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post #8712 of 8778 Old 10-02-2019, 10:11 PM
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OK, so I just got a second VTF3.5 to pair with my first that I've had for 4 yrs or so. It's true that the volume knob taper has changed - the new one at 12:00 is about the volume the old one is at 9:00. Here's the strange thing though- I think they are out of phase with each other. The subs are both on front wall, equidistant from MLP. With both subs set to 0 or 180 phase, the bass is weak at MLP, but gets very strong moving a few feet to either side. At first I thought it was just a null, although it sounded much better with just the one sub before at MLP. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. I found that if I flip one sub to 180, BAM bass is back at MLP, and very even across 3 seats on the couch. So either the subs are wired out of phase from each other, or I have some weird room anomaly. Another oddity is that when I run YPAO (on my new 3080), it didn't note any phase issues initially.

Any experience with this issue?
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post #8713 of 8778 Old 10-03-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
OK, so I just got a second VTF3.5 to pair with my first that I've had for 4 yrs or so. It's true that the volume knob taper has changed - the new one at 12:00 is about the volume the old one is at 9:00. Here's the strange thing though- I think they are out of phase with each other. The subs are both on front wall, equidistant from MLP. With both subs set to 0 or 180 phase, the bass is weak at MLP, but gets very strong moving a few feet to either side. At first I thought it was just a null, although it sounded much better with just the one sub before at MLP. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. I found that if I flip one sub to 180, BAM bass is back at MLP, and very even across 3 seats on the couch. So either the subs are wired out of phase from each other, or I have some weird room anomaly. Another oddity is that when I run YPAO (on my new 3080), it didn't note any phase issues initially.

Any experience with this issue?
Hi there,

The volume difference sounds about right. Though I'm not sure if you tried to match them to the same volume at the same position. That has a pretty big impact on that as well. So if one sub doesn't get as much support from the room as the other, you may need to turn that one up more to give you equal loudness. That actually goes into the idea of gain matching the subs to make sure that you're not potentially bottlenecking you system because one is playing louder than the other. It's may not really be that big of deal to do so though. It just depends on how the response varies from one sub position to the other position. In terms of phase, there are quite a few things that can affect it, so it's quite possible that this happens. Did you run YPAO initially or did you try to integrate it first before running YPAO? What are your settings on the distance correction? The wording on the manual is not quite clear, but make sure the Use setting for subs is on normal and not reverse out of precaution. One thing you can do is move the second sub right next to the first sub and listen to it there. Flip the switch between 0 and 180, while playing the 50 Hz test tone (track 14 on the Hsu BAS Test CD) and if the volume drops when both subs are set to opposite phase, then it is the placement/room acoustics causing it. If it gets louder when both subs phase settings are set opposite each other, then they may be internally wired out of phase. Haven't seen that before, but it is easily correctable. Honestly, you can just leave it at 180 and that effectively does the same thing so it may not be worth going in to try to reverse it. Do you have a diagram of your room layout by any chance?
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post #8714 of 8778 Old 10-03-2019, 11:25 AM
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Hi there,

The volume difference sounds about right. Though I'm not sure if you tried to match them to the same volume at the same position.
The level set by YPAO was within 1.5 db of each other

Quote:
That has a pretty big impact on that as well. So if one sub doesn't get as much support from the room as the other, you may need to turn that one up more to give you equal loudness. That actually goes into the idea of gain matching the subs to make sure that you're not potentially bottlenecking you system because one is playing louder than the other. It's may not really be that big of deal to do so though. It just depends on how the response varies from one sub position to the other position. In terms of phase, there are quite a few things that can affect it, so it's quite possible that this happens. Did you run YPAO initially or did you try to integrate it first before running YPAO? What are your settings on the distance correction?
I set both subs to 0 deg phase then ran YPAO. The distances were within 1 foot from MLP. Both were set to normal phase by YPAO. I discovered the issue because at first I was flipping both phase switches, then sitting back down to MLP and it was a null there either way. But then I saw I could flip the phase in the YPAO app, so I tried it there. And when I flipped the first one (while still sitting in MLP this time), all of a sudden the bass just came back.

Quote:
The wording on the manual is not quite clear, but make sure the Use setting for subs is on normal and not reverse out of precaution. One thing you can do is move the second sub right next to the first sub and listen to it there. Flip the switch between 0 and 180, while playing the 50 Hz test tone (track 14 on the Hsu BAS Test CD) and if the volume drops when both subs are set to opposite phase, then it is the placement/room acoustics causing it. If it gets louder when both subs phase settings are set opposite each other, then they may be internally wired out of phase. Haven't seen that before, but it is easily correctable. Honestly, you can just leave it at 180 and that effectively does the same thing so it may not be worth going in to try to reverse it. Do you have a diagram of your room layout by any chance?
I will take some pics and upload later. The room is open on one side, so that could have some strange effect. I was considering testing the absolute phase of each sub with a battery to be sure. May do that later as well.
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post #8715 of 8778 Old 10-04-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
The level set by YPAO was within 1.5 db of each other
Gotcha. That was when you had them at two different positions, correct? If so, then room acoustics also come into play.

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I set both subs to 0 deg phase then ran YPAO. The distances were within 1 foot from MLP. Both were set to normal phase by YPAO. I discovered the issue because at first I was flipping both phase switches, then sitting back down to MLP and it was a null there either way. But then I saw I could flip the phase in the YPAO app, so I tried it there. And when I flipped the first one (while still sitting in MLP this time), all of a sudden the bass just came back.
The first one, meaning the first VTF-15H MK2 that you have received or the second one that you just received from us? Did you try placing them next to each other just to make sure they are in phase. Note that if you do this, make sure the distance and level are set the same on the receiver and that no phases were flipped. Also make sure both phases are set to 0 degrees.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
I will take some pics and upload later. The room is open on one side, so that could have some strange effect. I was considering testing the absolute phase of each sub with a battery to be sure. May do that later as well.
Sounds good. Thanks!

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post #8716 of 8778 Old 10-05-2019, 08:32 PM
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Has anyone in here tried to swap amps between any of these HSU subs? I am wondering if I could use a 15h amp in a ULS sub? I have a dead ULS and I have a good deal on a 15h amp. So I would rather try that as opposed to buying a brand new ULS amp. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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post #8717 of 8778 Old 10-06-2019, 07:04 AM
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Has anyone in here tried to swap amps between any of these HSU subs? I am wondering if I could use a 15h amp in a ULS sub? I have a dead ULS and I have a good deal on a 15h amp. So I would rather try that as opposed to buying a brand new ULS amp. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
With the DSP being programmed for a specific alignment and set of circumstances it's unlikely it would be a plug-n-play situation, more like plug-n-pray. In other words, I doubt it would work very well. I'm sure Kevin can clarify though.
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post #8718 of 8778 Old 10-06-2019, 11:52 AM
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With the DSP being programmed for a specific alignment and set of circumstances it's unlikely it would be a plug-n-play situation, more like plug-n-pray. In other words, I doubt it would work very well. I'm sure Kevin can clarify though.
This is not a rhetorical question.

Do Hsu sub amps use DSPs? From the outside, they look rather analog.

The statement in the post may apply with analog electronics as well.
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post #8719 of 8778 Old 10-07-2019, 02:15 AM
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So, it's looking like I'm going to go ahead with an HSU ULS-15 MK2 with the Rosenut finish. After a lot of thought, and knowing my tendencies, I knew whatever sub I'd have ended up with for the music set up I'm establishing would have been kept for my HT. I decided to invest in something I knew I'd be thrilled with for a very, very long time for my HT, and shift the Elac I am using now to music duty.

I'm not officially an owner yet, but I expect to seal the deal sometime Monday morning. I don't know who I've been in contact with, but if it's the same rep here: you have an e-mail in your inbox with contact info to process the payment since I cannot do it on the site as it only allows US addresses when you're checking out.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

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post #8720 of 8778 Old 10-07-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post
Has anyone in here tried to swap amps between any of these HSU subs? I am wondering if I could use a 15h amp in a ULS sub? I have a dead ULS and I have a good deal on a 15h amp. So I would rather try that as opposed to buying a brand new ULS amp. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
The VTF-15H amp was not designed to work with the ULS-15 driver and enclosure. So what would end up perceiving is less output (350w vs 500w) and the response will not be the same. As Jim stated, it's very much a try at your own risk. For future reference, the 15" Mk2 series have some other things/customizations that are model specific.

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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
This is not a rhetorical question.

Do Hsu sub amps use DSPs? From the outside, they look rather analog.

The statement in the post may apply with analog electronics as well.
Our amps are analog, so adjustments are made at the component level.

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So, it's looking like I'm going to go ahead with an HSU ULS-15 MK2 with the Rosenut finish. After a lot of thought, and knowing my tendencies, I knew whatever sub I'd have ended up with for the music set up I'm establishing would have been kept for my HT. I decided to invest in something I knew I'd be thrilled with for a very, very long time for my HT, and shift the Elac I am using now to music duty.

I'm not officially an owner yet, but I expect to seal the deal sometime Monday morning. I don't know who I've been in contact with, but if it's the same rep here: you have an e-mail in your inbox with contact info to process the payment since I cannot do it on the site as it only allows US addresses when you're checking out.
Thank you so much for ordering our ULS-15 MK2 sub, Ryan! Hope you enjoy it. You can always message me here, or via email, if you have any questions. Many of the people who post in this forum are also very knowledgeable and also give great advice as well.

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post #8721 of 8778 Old 10-07-2019, 04:03 PM
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Thank you so much for ordering our ULS-15 MK2 sub, Ryan! Hope you enjoy it. You can always message me here, or via email, if you have any questions. Many of the people who post in this forum are also very knowledgeable and also give great advice as well.
Once payment has been processed, I'll be looking forward to it! There appears to be a bit of a SNAFU right now, but I think it's just in the address format I've given compared to how it's written with my bank. Kind of annoying because 99/100 it's never a problem, so sorry about that.

Edit: SNAFU fixed - it was exactly what I had figured. Thanks so much! I am excited about this, after months of painfully flip flopping back and forth between different ideas.
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post #8722 of 8778 Old 10-07-2019, 05:30 PM
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Once payment has been processed, I'll be looking forward to it! There appears to be a bit of a SNAFU right now, but I think it's just in the address format I've given compared to how it's written with my bank. Kind of annoying because 99/100 it's never a problem, so sorry about that.

Edit: SNAFU fixed - it was exactly what I had figured. Thanks so much! I am excited about this, after months of painfully flip flopping back and forth between different ideas.
Welcome to the HSU family. You will be very pleased with your purchase!
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post #8723 of 8778 Old 10-07-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post
Welcome to the HSU family. You will be very pleased with your purchase!
I have no doubts. I'd been debating for a while about a sub for my music area, but knowing myself, I probably would have kept whatever sub I got as my HT sub, and moved the one I currently have over to the music area. Because of that, I figured why not invest in something I know I'll be happy with for a very, very long time. I truly don't think I'd need another sub with this beast.

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

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post #8724 of 8778 Old 10-08-2019, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Ryan Statz View Post
I have no doubts. I'd been debating for a while about a sub for my music area, but knowing myself, I probably would have kept whatever sub I got as my HT sub, and moved the one I currently have over to the music area. Because of that, I figured why not invest in something I know I'll be happy with for a very, very long time. I truly don't think I'd need another sub with this beast.

I just integrated a ULS-15 mk2 into my condo setup as well in August, for 100% HT use it has been awesome so far.
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post #8725 of 8778 Old 10-08-2019, 03:45 PM
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Once payment has been processed, I'll be looking forward to it! There appears to be a bit of a SNAFU right now, but I think it's just in the address format I've given compared to how it's written with my bank. Kind of annoying because 99/100 it's never a problem, so sorry about that.

Edit: SNAFU fixed - it was exactly what I had figured. Thanks so much! I am excited about this, after months of painfully flip flopping back and forth between different ideas.
Just loaded it on the truck and it's on the way. Do you have any shared walls?

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I just integrated a ULS-15 mk2 into my condo setup as well in August, for 100% HT use it has been awesome so far.
Awesome setup! How do you have the ULS-15 Mk2 set in that room? Have you ever tried it on the left side of the entertainment system? Just curious.
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post #8726 of 8778 Old 10-08-2019, 04:09 PM
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Just loaded it on the truck and it's on the way. Do you have any shared walls?
Great! I'll keep an eye out for an e-mail with the tracking info.

I live in a condo/former apartment, so I think the answer is yes? Where my HT is, though, there aren't any shared walls with any of the other units in the building. The only shared wall there is the one that separates the HT room and our bedroom. I also don't listen at very high volume levels being only 6 feet from any given speaker in the room. The building is concrete construction, too, so it's super quiet, and you can't even hear any of the other tenants above or on either side of us. I might get some form of isolation pad/rug if I am overly concerned about any reverberation below - which I'm not because the person below us once accused us of using exercise equipment (that we don't even have) at 4am when it was an inherent problem with the pipes in the building causing a constant thumping sound every so often. However, I am not vindictive enough to give her a reason to leave a passive aggressive note at our door

Home Theatre: Onkyo TX-NR747 | Polk Audio RTi A3 Front L/R | Polk Audio CSi A6 Centre | Polk Audio RTi A1 Surround L/R | HSU ULS-15 MK2 Subwoofer | Sony XBR55X900E | PlayStation 4 Pro | Xbox One S

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post #8727 of 8778 Old 10-08-2019, 07:48 PM
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Gotcha. That was when you had them at two different positions, correct? If so, then room acoustics also come into play.
OK here are pics of my setup. Room is mostly open on the right except the small wall you can see.
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post #8728 of 8778 Old 10-09-2019, 04:42 AM
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Awesome setup! How do you have the ULS-15 Mk2 set in that room? Have you ever tried it on the left side of the entertainment system? Just curious.

I have the sub on the recommended EQ1 and Q control 0.7 setup, and the volume knob at 12'oclock (50%). DIRAC sets the sub level at -5 post-calibration which is perfect since there is a lot of headroom in a medium-sized room setup. I haven't tried this sub on the left side, but I have measured my previous sub (an old SVS PB12-NSD) at both spots and from what I remembered, the right measured better... although this was before room treatments so now that you mention it, I will probably find some time to measure the left side again just to confirm this is still the case.



Attached the graph from 14-180Hz of how the sub currently measures in the room, with the thin line being measured response and thicker line being DIRAC target curve corrected.
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post #8729 of 8778 Old 10-09-2019, 08:34 PM
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Could anyone please kindly point me in the direction of some higher quality photos of the VTF-2 MK5? I'm trying to get wife approval, but the photos on Hsu's website aren't quite representative enough of the real thing.
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post #8730 of 8778 Old 10-09-2019, 10:41 PM
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Could anyone please kindly point me in the direction of some higher quality photos of the VTF-2 MK5? I'm trying to get wife approval, but the photos on Hsu's website aren't quite representative enough of the real thing.
Google Images, perhaps? I admit that I don't see anything there that looks a lot better than the pictures at Hsu Research.

It's a large black box. Maybe make a full sized cardboard mockup? An explain to her that to be good at low frequencies (for home cinema), the subwoofer has to be physically large. The cabinet size almost seems to be more important than the size of the driver. (A VTF-2 plays about as low as a VTF-3, even though the 2 has a 12" driver, vs. the 15" of the 3.)
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