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post #9421 of 9431 Old 05-23-2020, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
80Hz would be typical for bookshelf speakers. I'd expect things to go lower with the 9060s. What does Audyssey choose?
I did the audyssey set up last night, they went 40hz on left and right 60hz on Center and 80 on surrounds I believe.

One issue I still have, I used HSUs recommendation settings on the subs (one port open, volume 9 o’clock, EQ 1, crossover out etc. ) and the Audyssey setup wanted me to lower the volume even more! Even after lowering to near zero, it set the levels to -12db. I moved it up to -10db, watched a movie and speakers sounded amazing, but subs were just not there. WHAT DO I DO?
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post #9422 of 9431 Old 05-23-2020, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HsuKevin View Post
I do recommend running the subs with one port open, volume around 9-10 o'clock, EQ1, Q.7 in your case. Is your room dedicated? Where are you seated in there? The crossover allows you to set the frequency point where the bass is removed from a particular speaker, in this case the KEF speakers and it sends the signal to the subwoofer. You want to do this because lower bass requires more amplifier power and will cause your speaker to move more which reduces the amount of clean headroom. Depending on the frequency and output, it could also cause your mains to bottom out relatively easy (like on Bladerunner 2049). Since you are using the 9060's for your mains, I would set it so that the 10" driver is taking care of the low end from the main mix (do not hook it up to the lfe out). With 4.5" mid ranges it would be nice to have that 10" take some of the low bass material from those so you don't possibly run into clean headroom issues. Still set your crossover to 80 Hz for your mains. Since your Q105's have a 5.25" driver, I recommend setting at least 80 Hz on the crossover for the surround.

I appreciate the advice! I’m newer to the audio community, so I’m going to try and unpack your comment one at a time.

1. My home theater room has acoustic panels now. It is attached to two doors and a walkway and a sliding glass door.

2. I am seated about 10, away from TV directly middle of tv. I followed the speaker placement recommendation from DefTech and Denon. Have about 5’ from back wall.

3. Not sure what you mean when you say mains bottoming out. How do you “set it so 10” drivers take care of low end”?

4. By mains, I’m assuming you are talking about LRC channels. You recommended 80hz, shouldn’t that be lower? Their specs show they can handle the low end I believe?

5. I really appreciate your advice, sorry for my lack of understanding. I commented a few minutes ago regarding the subs settings. I set the Sub settings based on HSU recommendations (One port open, EQ 1, Volume 9 o’clock, crossover out etc. ), when I ran the Audyssey set up, it wanted me to lower the sub volume to 75, which moved the sub ‘knob’?, to near zero. Even after the set up, it set the Subs to -12db. Not sure what to do fix this? I moved it up to -10db and still couldn’t really hear the subs during the movie.

Thanks again
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post #9423 of 9431 Old 05-23-2020, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Stevenicholas02 View Post
I appreciate the advice! I’m newer to the audio community, so I’m going to try and unpack your comment one at a time.

1. My home theater room has acoustic panels now. It is attached to two doors and a walkway and a sliding glass door.

2. I am seated about 10, away from TV directly middle of tv. I followed the speaker placement recommendation from DefTech and Denon. Have about 5’ from back wall.

3. Not sure what you mean when you say mains bottoming out. How do you “set it so 10” drivers take care of low end”?

4. By mains, I’m assuming you are talking about LRC channels. You recommended 80hz, shouldn’t that be lower? Their specs show they can handle the low end I believe?

5. I really appreciate your advice, sorry for my lack of understanding. I commented a few minutes ago regarding the subs settings. I set the Sub settings based on HSU recommendations (One port open, EQ 1, Volume 9 o’clock, crossover out etc. ), when I ran the Audyssey set up, it wanted me to lower the sub volume to 75, which moved the sub ‘knob’?, to near zero. Even after the set up, it set the Subs to -12db. Not sure what to do fix this? I moved it up to -10db and still couldn’t really hear the subs during the movie.

Thanks again
1. The two doors can be closed? Is it completely open to the walkway? How large is the opening to the walkway?

2. Thanks! Are you able to place one of the subs in the back corner?

3. Meaning the speaker reaches its limits in terms of movement and it may cause it to pop/distort. Sorry didn't mean to confuse about the 10" taking care of the low end. Essentially, don't connect the LFE output from your receiver to the 9060. Just connect the speaker cables to the inputs on the speakers and the internal crossover will send the low end freq to the 10" speaker. Which is a good thing because the 10" would be able to more efficiently reproduce the low bass output cleanly over the 4.5" drivers.

4. Even if the speakers are capable of reproducing below 80 Hz, the subs are designed to reproduce those frequencies and reproduce them well and cleanly. Note that when it comes to reproducing the sub bass frequencies, that requires a lot of amp power and it puts more strain on the driver in the speaker. With a 10" driver, that may not be too big of a deal, but you're still running it off of your receiver, so that will reduce the amount of clean headroom your receiver can deliver as well. Also, many times, where your speakers are situated may not be the best place for sub bass reproduction. You may end up getting dips in the response like the mid-bass so sending that to the sub will give you more flexibility for placement so you can get a good mid-bass and give you a more accurate and smoother bass overall. Of course it is up to you and if you like using a lower crossover, that's perfectly fine. There are no hard and fast rules. However, the THX standard for crossover is 80 Hz.

5. Your room is not terribly large, so it's quite possible that you may need to set a lower volume on the sub to get the 75 dB. Also, there are definitely times where audyssey may not EQ the system accurately. Our subs volume controls are more on the sensitive side for gain, so setting it to 8 o'clock is certainly a possibility. Again it is up to your personal preference so if you don't like what audyssey is doing to the sub, but you like what it is doing to the speakers, I would just run it without the subs connected and manually adjust the distance, crossover, levels later.

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post #9424 of 9431 Old 05-23-2020, 11:31 AM
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1. The two doors can be closed? Is it completely open to the walkway? How large is the opening to the walkway?

2. Thanks! Are you able to place one of the subs in the back corner?

3. Meaning the speaker reaches its limits in terms of movement and it may cause it to pop/distort. Sorry didn't mean to confuse about the 10" taking care of the low end. Essentially, don't connect the LFE output from your receiver to the 9060. Just connect the speaker cables to the inputs on the speakers and the internal crossover will send the low end freq to the 10" speaker. Which is a good thing because the 10" would be able to more efficiently reproduce the low bass output cleanly over the 4.5" drivers.

4. Even if the speakers are capable of reproducing below 80 Hz, the subs are designed to reproduce those frequencies and reproduce them well and cleanly. Note that when it comes to reproducing the sub bass frequencies, that requires a lot of amp power and it puts more strain on the driver in the speaker. With a 10" driver, that may not be too big of a deal, but you're still running it off of your receiver, so that will reduce the amount of clean headroom your receiver can deliver as well. Also, many times, where your speakers are situated may not be the best place for sub bass reproduction. You may end up getting dips in the response like the mid-bass so sending that to the sub will give you more flexibility for placement so you can get a good mid-bass and give you a more accurate and smoother bass overall. Of course it is up to you and if you like using a lower crossover, that's perfectly fine. There are no hard and fast rules. However, the THX standard for crossover is 80 Hz.

5. Your room is not terribly large, so it's quite possible that you may need to set a lower volume on the sub to get the 75 dB. Also, there are definitely times where audyssey may not EQ the system accurately. Our subs volume controls are more on the sensitive side for gain, so setting it to 8 o'clock is certainly a possibility. Again it is up to your personal preference so if you don't like what audyssey is doing to the sub, but you like what it is doing to the speakers, I would just run it without the subs connected and manually adjust the distance, crossover, levels later.
Thanks for the reply!

1. The two doors CAN close and the hallway is only a few feet wide. Normal width.

2. The two subs are in the back right and behind left corners.

3. Thanks for the clarification! I just have speaker cables connected to mains so we are good there!

4. I am assuming you are talking about keeping the LRC at 80hz as well. I will try it out.

5. I may try and do the crossover myself. I just don’t feel comfortable connecting that with the rest of the system. Is it possible for me to up the level to -7db for example on the Denon right now? Will it mess up the calibration if I tweak the dB level that much?
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post #9425 of 9431 Old 05-23-2020, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevenicholas02 View Post
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
80Hz would be typical for bookshelf speakers. I'd expect things to go lower with the 9060s. What does Audyssey choose?
I did the audyssey set up last night, they went 40hz on left and right 60hz on Center and 80 on surrounds I believe.

One issue I still have, I used HSUs recommendation settings on the subs (one port open, volume 9 o’️clock, EQ 1, crossover out etc. ) and the Audyssey setup wanted me to lower the volume even more! Even after lowering to near zero, it set the levels to -12db. I moved it up to -10db, watched a movie and speakers sounded amazing, but subs were just not there. WHAT DO I DO?
I am not pro here, just started about 1.5 years ago. I believe after running Audyssey, you need to go back to manual setting to set all your speakers to SMALL. After you have done that, change the crossover for your LRF to 80hz. Test listen......

I suggest test between 80hz up to 110hz and see which listening experience u like better. I ended up set my LR to 90hz and C to 80hz and wife loves them.

Try it and update us...
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post #9426 of 9431 Old 05-24-2020, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevenicholas02 View Post
I did the audyssey set up last night, they went 40hz on left and right 60hz on Center and 80 on surrounds I believe.

One issue I still have, I used HSUs recommendation settings on the subs (one port open, volume 9 o’clock, EQ 1, crossover out etc. ) and the Audyssey setup wanted me to lower the volume even more! Even after lowering to near zero, it set the levels to -12db. I moved it up to -10db, watched a movie and speakers sounded amazing, but subs were just not there. WHAT DO I DO?
As binlee68 mentioned above, you manually go in and change the speakers to the crossover of your choice after Audyssey is run - typically don’t want to set them below what Audyssey selected.

Regarding the subs - you typically want to get back something higher than -12 dB (as this is as low as many AVRs go negative so you aren’t really sure where you are at) something like -10 dB is what I usually shoot for, you are fine adding as much boost to the subs as you’d like after Audyssey - usually people add from 2-8 or 9 dB but it is all personal preference
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post #9427 of 9431 Old 05-24-2020, 10:08 AM
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Sounds good! Let me know if you need help with integration. Thanks for ordering the VTF-15H MK2!



That's a nice trade! Hope you enjoy the VTF-3 Mk5 HP. As others stated, the PB-1000 won't quite play as loud or as clean as the VTF-3 Mk5 HP so it may end up bottlenecking your system, but otherwise, as stated, there is no harm in trying. Generally when using two different performing subs, I would recommend placing the smaller sub closer to your seating position, but it really depends on your room layout and where you're seated in there. If you need placement options, let me know.



I do recommend running the subs with one port open, volume around 9-10 o'clock, EQ1, Q.7 in your case. Is your room dedicated? Where are you seated in there? The crossover allows you to set the frequency point where the bass is removed from a particular speaker, in this case the KEF speakers and it sends the signal to the subwoofer. You want to do this because lower bass requires more amplifier power and will cause your speaker to move more which reduces the amount of clean headroom. Depending on the frequency and output, it could also cause your mains to bottom out relatively easy (like on Bladerunner 2049). Since you are using the 9060's for your mains, I would set it so that the 10" driver is taking care of the low end from the main mix (do not hook it up to the lfe out). With 4.5" mid ranges it would be nice to have that 10" take some of the low bass material from those so you don't possibly run into clean headroom issues. Still set your crossover to 80 Hz for your mains. Since your Q105's have a 5.25" driver, I recommend setting at least 80 Hz on the crossover for the surround.



Ah OK. So you're not able to place it to the front left or o the left of your seating position?



You can certainly do that. To the sub, it's really no different. It won't adversely affect the natural performance of the sub. However, I do recommend placing something under it to protect the finish. If you still have the foam bag, you can use that. There are some cases, where I've heard that placing the sub on its side caused a bit more reinforcement due to the center of the driver being closer to the floor. Whether that was boundary gain or maybe a phase correction, I can't say. We've measured the sub upright and on its side before and didn't see much of a difference in response.
I'm also assuming you can also lay the MK 2 on its side as well? kinda a dumb question now that I think of it but it is a bigger box with different ports

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post #9428 of 9431 Old 05-24-2020, 11:46 AM
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I'm also assuming you can also lay the MK 2 on its side as well? kinda a dumb question now that I think of it but it is a bigger box with different ports
In my room my Hsu 15 sounds cleaner on it side. My seating is close to the back wall and I was getting tons of ear pressure....laid it on it side and it opened up a new world!! Bass pressure is directional.
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post #9429 of 9431 Old 05-24-2020, 12:07 PM
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Bass pressure is directional.
It's omni-directional, actually.

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post #9430 of 9431 Old 05-24-2020, 01:49 PM
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In my room my Hsu 15 sounds cleaner on it side. My seating is close to the back wall and I was getting tons of ear pressure....laid it on it side and it opened up a new world!! Bass pressure is directional.

Do you mind sharing a pic of the setup showing the seating and sub?
I would like to give it a try.

I have my sub placed around 4 feet behind the MLP.


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post #9431 of 9431 Old Today, 05:12 PM
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Hi everyone!

Hope you had a wonderful weekend. Just wanted to let everyone know that we will be slowly opening back up and will be shipping Mon/Wed/Fri for the next couple of weeks. We're still currently not open for pickups, etc just yet. We are evaluating the guidelines and once we get a handle on that and we're able to safely operate, we will allow for curbside pickup.

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Thanks for the reply!

1. The two doors CAN close and the hallway is only a few feet wide. Normal width.

2. The two subs are in the back right and behind left corners.

3. Thanks for the clarification! I just have speaker cables connected to mains so we are good there!

4. I am assuming you are talking about keeping the LRC at 80hz as well. I will try it out.

5. I may try and do the crossover myself. I just don’t feel comfortable connecting that with the rest of the system. Is it possible for me to up the level to -7db for example on the Denon right now? Will it mess up the calibration if I tweak the dB level that much?
4. Yes absolutely.

5. Given where you set the subs, that shouldn't be an issue at all. Ultimately, it's what works best to your preference. Most people turn up the sub a bit from what audyssey sets. Not sure why audyssey set it lower once you ran it with one port open, but my guess is that it takes an overall average of output and when you set it to our recommended way, it must have caused a jump in output in the lower bass. I wouldn't worry about setting your speakers to small and changing the crossovers to 80 Hz. That's a change that generally is a better bet, and would be easily fixable if it doesn't work out

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I'm also assuming you can also lay the MK 2 on its side as well? kinda a dumb question now that I think of it but it is a bigger box with different ports
Absolutely. You just don't want to block the ports or driver.

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