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post #31 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 05:56 AM
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Can someone--say, Talk, perhaps--illuminate the issues surrounding why The Descent won't play on either the Sony or the Pioneer decks? Or the original firmware Samsung, for that matter? How odd, considering all of those devices are fully BD-J compliant, right?

Alex doesn't live here anymore
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post #32 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 06:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaliga View Post

Forgive me if this has already been asked. This is directed mainly at Amir but any insider who can answer this is welcome to do so.

Indeed I think others may be able to add as much to the answer as I can.

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There is currently a discussion taking place in one of the digital projector forums:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9258509

The above post quotes a four year old thread that in part discusses the actual resolvable detail in D5 master tapes, and the number that was kicked around was about 800~1300 lines of horizontal resolution. I think that number came from a FAQ by Joe Kane, who never participated directly in that discussion. I don't think the question was ever settled definitively so I thought I would bring it here to the insiders.

Indeed, I also believe the original assertion came from Joe as Gary Reber asked me about the same thing a couple of years ago, in an interview for WSR regarding WMV-HD discs, attributing this claim to Joe.

Quote:


Making obvious allowances for a wide variety of filming techniques that would impact how much apparent detail we see in the film sources we have, just how much horizontal resolution is really in the HD we are getting in HD DVD and Blu-Ray? Is it really 800~1300 lines or is it higher? If D5 master tapes only go out to 1300 lines then what is the limiting factor? Is it the D5 system, optics, or something else? If it is not a limitation of the master then under ideal conditions how much horizontal resolution are getting in these new HD formats?

First, let me start by saying that the link points to a high quality discussion . I expected a bunch of guess by laymen but the quoted sections do touch on issues that could really be there. I don't want to pester Stacey over the holidays but can do so once the new year comes, to see what he had found out. So here, I can only speak to my own experience, not scientific tests which they may have run. Also note that it has been a decade since I have been involved in Telecine equipment so others may have more current experience.

So back to your question. Let's work backward through this chain to see if we can spot where the problem spots may be.

Both HD DVD and BD encode content at true 1920 horizontal resolution. The codecs are given that resolution and barring any filtering that goes on in the encoder or player, that is what you are going to get. We know that both formats produce this resolution using test signals in VC-1 when driving 1080 displays using actual discs authored this way. So there is absolutely not the limited factor.

Next in line (putting aside DI and animations as the thread rightly mentions doesn't have this problem) is the D-5. The D-5 tape has true 1080p resolution in both axis. Indeed, its chroma (color) bandwidth) is double what we need (4:2:2 format versus 4:2:0 we use in BD/HD DVD). While not a subject of discussion, D-5 is also a 10-bit format, providing better dynamic range than what we need, assume the scan was done at that depth (a very good assumption). There is mild DCT compression used in D-5, and more so when 10-bit mode is used. That could disturb fine texture on difficult material (something without a lot of easy segments to encode in a frame). But those would be more like artifacts, and not show up as a frequency roll off seen on a spectrum analyzer. Indeed, the compression artifacts create artificial edges which tend to push the high frequency components (false resolution) than lower it.

Next is the telecine transfer. Here we are talking about an optical scan of the film at high speed with an anti-aliasing filter required for digital recording. There are a number of telecine machines but the typical Spirit Telecine with its 1920 Luma CCD will resolve that much bandwidth, subject to roll off from its anti-aliasing filter. Put in English, the filter is not going to have a brick-wall response so it is liable to roll off high frequencies some, require some sharpening to compensate (which can create some artifacts but not frequency cut off).

Higher resolution telecine equipment exists (e.g. scanning spot CRT) to scan at higher resolution but again, the thread acknowledges that 4K scans and such, would not have this issue so we won't go there. But suffice it to say, I hope the future is 4K scans as it solves many problems, including the filtering one just mentioned. Indeed, at the Home Theater Cruise last year, Joe said experiments he had done using 4K scans, showed that even DVDs had a better picture quality when using higher resolution scans than 1080p. He is now pushing to test 6K scans! OK, so the man really cares about picture quality .

Now, just because the equipment scans at that resolution, it doesn't mean the output will be at that resolution. Film is notorious for curling and it must be held flat for it to properly scan so operator care and equipment maintenance is very important to achieve the rated resolution. But I suspect the post houses doing scans for major studios have high enough skill and operational practices to avoid issues here. But someone else needs to confirm it that is closer to it than I.

Next in line is the film itself. I know from my photography world that standard 35mm film has resolution far in excess of HD formats we are talking about here. While people will argue about the cross over point between film and digital (there are a lot more to picture quality than just pure resolution) I am sure we can all agree that 35mm film has a minimum of 3X to 5X more resolution than 1080p. There is a reason Casablanca looks so good after 60 years in VC-1/HD DVD . So we are good to go as far as the recording medium is concerned.

Now we get to where the film came from. If it is printed from other sources such as digital creations, then we have another link in the chain as that equipment could cause roll off but I really doubt it. if the film is copies of other films, then there could be some issues here. Alas, I am not at all an expert in this area and others surely would need to chime in to provide comfort, or make us concerned about these steps. And of course, whether any concerns relate to major studios producing films, as opposed to low budget productions.

So net, net, there is no reason for horizontal resolution limit here at the technological level that I can see. But others need to chime in to confirm the above with more hands on experience than I.

What I can say is that in practical experience I do not agree at all with the final assertion that a 720p display resolves all that there is in HD DVD (and presumably BD although my tests do not include that format).

When HD DVD titles first came out, I compared the picture on a 1080p LCD flat panel (Sony Qualia) and 720p HD Plasma (Panasonic). There was no doubt that the LCD had higher resolution, especially in static scenes (the LCD smears detail in high motion images due to slow response time although this is much improved these days). The Penny was definitely softer although it had other advantages over the LCD which we won't go into here. But there was no question that there was more on the source than a 720p display can resolve. Note that I was viewing them from 1 foot away so this comment is not representative of people watching these sets at farther distances. But since we are talking about the resolution of the format, this should not be a point of contention.

In addition, we have tested the new 1080p Marantz DLP projector against the Sony Ruby using HD DVD. As you may know, the Ruby's lens does not have high enough quality, suffering from lateral CA (Chromatic Aberrations - not all the colors focusing on the same plane, causing some to bleed) and poor focus control, wasting its potential to truly resolve 1080p signals. We see this in test sequences where full Nyquist limit (1920) is not resolved on the Ruby. The Marantz however, fully resolves 1080p and as such, has a noticeably sharper image than the Ruby. This is why Kevin Collins on my team, who outfitted the HD DVD truck, insisted on using it there and frankly, scuffs at anything less in our HD DVD meets . The new Sharp DLP btw, has the same resolution when we used it in our Dallas meet.

Please note that I am not trying to put down the Ruby as that is the display I own in my house. Just that we are able to resolve even the difference between two 1080p projectors with HD DVD so there is clearly information there on the disc or we would not be able to do so. At the same time, I would be remiss without mentioning that I believe there is some false sharpening that occurs with digital displays with good lenses in that the pixel edges are sharp compared to say, a CRT display, giving the illusion of sharper images than what is there. But again, that is the subject of a different topic and does not invalid the observation that a true 1080p set provides the sharpest images from HD DVD (and presumably BD).

So where does all of this leave us? I think the chain is fully capable of resolving more than 720p. While 720p displays show the best images they have ever produced with HD DVD/BD, they can not rival the resolution of a set with 1080p resolution when driven by these formats. Indeed, I highly recommend that people who are in the market for new displays, get a 1080p set and not settle for 720p. Newer projectors with this resolution are becoming very reasonable in price (cost of 100-200 HD DVD/BDs). Note that it is criminal to get a 1080p set without 1:1 pixel mapping as that clearly lops off a good 10 to 20% resolution from the source. So shame on display vendors who still do not provide this mode . But even with overscan, these sets outperform 720p displays.


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Thanks in advance for your answer.

--Jerome

You are welcome. I hope I didn't ramble too much . Up early in the morning jetlagged with little to do.
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post #33 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 06:38 AM
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Thanks Amir.

I agree that you shouldn't trouble Stacey with this over the holidays, but if he could circle back and comment after the New Year it would be greatly appreciated.

--Jerome
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post #34 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 06:41 AM
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If authored image of HD-DVD (HVDVD_TS + ADV_OBJ) burn to BluRay disc...
It be playable on PC by WinDVD or PowerDVD ? Thanks.
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post #35 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 07:27 AM
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In the News thread, details regarding the NEC chip used in the A2 were posted.

It appears to have a CPU core on it that is purposed to handle HD DVD interactivity: (translated) "CPU V5500 of 64bit (654DMIPS) with, 32bit CPU of American MIPS technology (457DMIPS) it loads as an application processor. You say that it can process also the high-level application which corresponds to the browser and the data broadcast which are utilized with interactive function of digital broadcast and HD DVD."

Can anybody here discuss why the sperate Intel CPU in the A2 if the NEC chip has a CPU core designed to hande HDi?

Thanks.

-Steve
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post #36 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 08:29 AM
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paidgeek - can you clarify the PS3 bluray output for 720p HDTVs since there seems to be nothing coming soon at that price...

will PS3 natively output 720p for gaming and bluray movie playback via both component and hdmi?

also will it upscale dvd movies via hdmi to 720 native?

thanks.

DVD's are about movies & people watch them in living rooms, how many people actually use their computer drives to sit and watch movies- Bluray's Andy Parsons
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post #37 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 09:43 AM
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Quote:


You mean DTS lossless? If so, Studio Canal titles in Europe already used them.

I guess the better question for Amir is when will we see decoding of DTS Lossless available in HD DVD players? Having a lossless audio track means nothing if the player or available receivers/SSPs can't decode it. Are there any plans for this support in the near future (and I mean at full resolution, not core decoding)?

The same question can be said for the BD insiders here. With Fox now supporting DTS-HD MA on all of their releases (and their MGM titles), will we ever see decoding support of these audio formats in the near future? It seems that Blu-ray players in general put a price premium on their hardware but lack the ability to do most of what they should in regards to what their format is capable of. (i.e. TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD, native 1080p24, BD Live).

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post #38 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 10:40 AM
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dear amirm,

what can we expect from microsoft at ces, what anouncments will be made because there is alot of speculation and rumors circeling around an hdmi cable for xbox 360 can you comment?
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post #39 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 11:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashoveridema0 View Post

dear amirm,

what can we expect from microsoft at ces, what anouncments will be made because there is alot of speculation and rumors circeling around an hdmi cable for xbox 360 can you comment?

I really can't pre-announce anything. CES is soon enough anyway .
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post #40 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 11:41 AM
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It seems that with HD-DVD, many manufacturers recommend PCM to be sent over HDMI, so that menu sounds and director comments can be mixed into the sound track. Now it has just today come to my notice that Dolby Digital streams contain additional metadata like dialog normalization etc which is probably "lost" when sending PCM. What is the opinion of ya insiders about this topic?

Related question: Does the Blu-Ray side also recommend to use PCM over HDMI over bitstream? Do menu sounds and director comments (once PiP will be supported) also get mixed in dynamically, just as is the case with HD-DVD?

Thank you!

P.S: Here's an article about "dialog normalization" metadata:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...on-6-2000.html
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post #41 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians View Post

Can someone--say, Talk, perhaps--illuminate the issues surrounding why The Descent won't play on either the Sony or the Pioneer decks? Or the original firmware Samsung, for that matter? How odd, considering all of those devices are fully BD-J compliant, right?

I don't know what the issue is with The Descent. I've not seen any reference to this being a BD-J title, but I agree there are indications this might be a factor. Nonetheless, something can be BD-J compliant (or HDi-compliant) and still have bugs. The compliance suites can never be guaranteed to prevent every compatibility issue, but they can come very, very close as they mature. Further, there are generally allowances in the licenses for release of players before compliance tests are complete, generally requiring firmware updates to support forward compatibility.

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post #42 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The same question can be said for the BD insiders here. With Fox now supporting DTS-HD MA on all of their releases (and their MGM titles), will we ever see decoding support of these audio formats in the near future?

The Panasonic is supposed to support DTS-HD MA with an upcoming firmware upgrade, and rumors have suggested the PS3 will as well.
Quote:


It seems that Blu-ray players in general put a price premium on their hardware but lack the ability to do most of what they should in regards to what their format is capable of. (i.e. TrueHD, DD+, DTS-HD, native 1080p24, BD Live).

The only high-def players on the market supporting 1080p24 are Blu-ray (Sony and Pioneer standalones, potentially PS3). Where is an HD-DVD supporting 1080p24? The spec doesn't even technically allow for it today.

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post #43 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Does the Blu-Ray side also recommend to use PCM over HDMI over bitstream? Do menu sounds and director comments (once PiP will be supported) also get mixed in dynamically, just as is the case with HD-DVD?

Yes, locally-generated sounds get mixed as PCM, so if you are decoding offboard you may not hear these.

- Talk

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post #44 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 12:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

The only high-def players on the market supporting 1080p24 are Blu-ray (Sony and Pioneer standalones, potentially PS3). Where is an HD-DVD supporting 1080p24? The spec doesn't even technically allow for it today.

Then the thousands of people who have been watching HD DVD at 48hz on the HD DVD trailer must be imagining it! And we have been showing this well before any BD player came out that could do 24p.

Good grief. I expect the BD fans to be using arguments like this, not insiders....

So once more. The spec for neither product says how you output something -- only how you decode the content on disc. It is totally up to the equipment maker to put out whatever signal they want. That is how it works with DVD players today, and the same is true of both HD DVD/BD, lest you want to tell me that the BD spec mandates whether one can have stereo analog output or not on the player....
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post #45 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 12:23 PM
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Nice to see amirm's detailed reply to jsaliga's query, which in turn links a >$3.5k FP thread where I raised the 800-1300-line effective resolution figures that sspears reported from 1080/24p master tapes several years back. With the introduction of 1080 DVDs, I'd also be interested in insiders pining this supposed limitation down. Don't believe my post (or extracts) concluded 720p displays can handle everything 1080 DVDs deliver resolution-wise. That's because the thrust of many posts I write is that 1080i/p clearly provides more resolvable detail than 720p (based on my own daily comparisons since 2000 and similar observations from others).

A summary-type post written in the Blu-ray forum mentions some of the quotes and links about 1080/24p telecined master tapes. Insider Glimmie has several times posted about the wide bandwidths of HD D5 machines/tapes and telecine equipment, agreeing with what amirm outlines above. Yet as I recall, and one of the sublinks within the post just above might locate his original comment, he wrote that ~1300 lines effective resolution for a HD D5 is quite good, or a similar wording. That might be referring--it's been too long now since I reviewed the links--to effective resolution when the delivery bit rates of ~17-Mbps video payloads with MPEG-2, typical OTA/DBS/cable, are involved. As with others, I've long proclaimed 1080 DVDs as the 'savior' of 'true' HD resolutions--assuming the 'right' master tapes. Always assumed, though, with non-sampled test patterns that could be ~1920X1080 maximum resolvable lines, but typical sampled signals at 1080i/p, AIUI, have a Nyquist limit of ~1700 lines unless oversampling/downconversion is used.

But then there's sspears post regarding 800--1300 line resolution based on spectrum analysis. And, from his posts back then, I concluded the highest resolutions involved computer graphics, not telecined films. Regarding film resolution, while the very high limits of negatives are often cited, the effects of deliberate filtering and selective focusing often surely limits reaching those maximums, and the quality of prints used for telecines plays a key role. So, maybe what's needed is fresh spectrum analysis from what's considered the best of the new 1080 DVDs. -- John
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post #46 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 12:49 PM
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Amir I hate to bother you with this question you probably can't answer - but I must.

When is the 360 addon going to have DTS ?

Kill your doubts; with the coldest of weapons, confidence. - Incubus
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post #47 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinch View Post

paidgeek - can you clarify the PS3 bluray output for 720p HDTVs since there seems to be nothing coming soon at that price...

will PS3 natively output 720p for gaming and bluray movie playback via both component and hdmi?

also will it upscale dvd movies via hdmi to 720 native?

thanks.

I can only provide a partial answer here as we have not created a detailed chart of what the PS3 does under each of the circumstances you describe. My understanding at the moment is that the PS3 does not apply scaling, but will output the native resolution of the content being played. I believe that Sony Computer may add scaling functionality through firmware updates in the future. Since virtually all "HD ready" displays can accept 480p, 720p or 1080i, they have internal scalers to map to the native resolution of the panel. The only time this becomes an issue is when the built-in scaler does not do a great job and the player can do better.

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post #48 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

It seems that with HD-DVD, many manufacturers recommend PCM to be sent over HDMI, so that menu sounds and director comments can be mixed into the sound track. Now it has just today come to my notice that Dolby Digital streams contain additional metadata like dialog normalization etc which is probably "lost" when sending PCM. What is the opinion of ya insiders about this topic?

Related question: Does the Blu-Ray side also recommend to use PCM over HDMI over bitstream? Do menu sounds and director comments (once PiP will be supported) also get mixed in dynamically, just as is the case with HD-DVD?

Thank you!

P.S: Here's an article about "dialog normalization" metadata:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...on-6-2000.html


Since encoded lossless streams are not yet being decoded in receivers, I do recommend using LPCM over HDMI for the time being. When secondary audio stream mixing is implemented in the players, they can potentially use dial norm information to adjust the levels appropriately before re-coding as PCM or another codec.

Sony Pictures BD Insider
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post #49 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I can only provide a partial answer here as we have not created a detailed chart of what the PS3 does under each of the circumstances you describe. My understanding at the moment is that the PS3 does not apply scaling, but will output the native resolution of the content being played. I believe that Sony Computer may add scaling functionality through firmware updates in the future. Since virtually all "HD ready" displays can accept 480p, 720p or 1080i, they have internal scalers to map to the native resolution of the panel. The only time this becomes an issue is when the built-in scaler does not do a great job and the player can do better.

Thanks.

Most of the TVs don't accept 1080p however, so if your 1280x720p HDTV/projector accepts 1080i instead, doesn't this now require an extra level of scaling and artifact introduction...

scaling #1 bluray device from 1080p to 1080i output
scaling #2 and deinterlacing on TV/projector from 1080i to 720p

If you have a 720p projector that doesn't accept 1080p signals, and want best possible PQ, isn't this something you would want to have addressed? Anyone know if the Optoma H78/79 can accept 1080p over DVI/HDCP?

DVD's are about movies & people watch them in living rooms, how many people actually use their computer drives to sit and watch movies- Bluray's Andy Parsons
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post #50 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 02:39 PM
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This is from the "News" thread. Supposedly someone was able to decrypt the HD DVD contents using the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on and the PowerDVD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyn00b View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oZGYb92isE

This guy also posted at Doom9:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119871

Can anyone verify if this is the real deal? If so, then all I can say is... WOW

The question goes to AmirM.

I don't know if the above claim is true (I don't have a HD DVD add-on nor a PowerDVD). But from the way the guy explains, he was able to grab the AACS decryption key in memory (I assume in RAM for PowerDVD) and was successful at creating unencrypted video object files. It seems to be a similar "attack"/vulnerability that happened with CSS for DVD.

If this is true, my guess is that the AACS updating mechanism would kick in to disable the vulnerable player (in this case, it seems to be the PowerDVD). Correct?

How would this be handled by AACS, and how quickly?

Thanks.

Hong.

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post #51 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 02:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanborn View Post

Amir I hate to bother you with this question you probably can't answer - but I must.

When is the 360 addon going to have DTS ?

I realize there is a lot of interest in this. All I can say is that the core development work is finished but we need to roll this up in a console update and that takes a bit of time. So I appreciate your patience on this.
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post #52 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 02:44 PM
 
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Hong, there are many mechanisms in AACS to limit exposure of the system in case of such attacks. But it is hard to comment which one is effective in this case, without more information. So let's wait to see what other data surfaces.
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post #53 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

John

John,
May I ask, if not too personal, was your father's first name ..Ken ?.....as in the Ken Mason Award ?

Thanks

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post #54 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chinch View Post

Thanks.

Most of the TVs don't accept 1080p however, so if your 1280x720p HDTV/projector accepts 1080i instead, doesn't this now require an extra level of scaling and artifact introduction...

scaling #1 bluray device from 1080p to 1080i output
scaling #2 and deinterlacing on TV/projector from 1080i to 720p

If you have a 720p projector that doesn't accept 1080p signals, and want best possible PQ, isn't this something you would want to have addressed? Anyone know if the Optoma H78/79 can accept 1080p over DVI/HDCP?

There is no problem converting back and forth from 1080 24p, 1080 60i, or 1080 60p, provided that 24p is the original encoded format (which is 99% or more for BD movie titles). No scaling takes place to make these conversions because they simply repeat or delete redundant picture information to make the conversion. I would expect the device you have to create a 1080 60p frame in video memory, then scale to 720 60p to match the internal panels.

Having a 720p panel is a good thing when playing games that are designed for 720p, but it would be better to have a native 1080 panel for movies as virtually all movies are encoded at that resolution.

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post #55 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Then the thousands of people who have been watching HD DVD at 48hz on the HD DVD trailer must be imagining it! And we have been showing this well before any BD player came out that could do 24p.

Come now, Amir, are you claiming that you are outputting the 24p HD DVD video directly from an HD DVD standalone player? If you are achieving this through an offboard scaler or via HTPC processing this doesn't count, since there's no reason to believe that the extensive processing required to convert from 60i/p output can be economically embedded in a player. Further, do you not agree that the current HD DVD spec will present issues for 24p output, such as PiP running at a different framerate? Is PiP supported at 24p in the HD DVD spec?

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post #56 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 07:42 PM
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Questions for BD insiders: When will BD+ be used on Blu-ray discs? Is BD+ already supported in the current BD players?

"I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation." - George Bernard Shaw
"I want lossless audio. Let me be the judge of what is good enough for me" - kdragon :)
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post #57 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 07:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

Come now, Amir, are you claiming that you are outputting the 24p HD DVD video directly from an HD DVD standalone player?

This question is unrelated to what you asserted. You said the HD DVD spec disallows 24p output. We are clearly watching 24p output from HD DVD in the trailer. So your assertion was wrong if one can watch 24p from HD DVD.

Quote:


If you are achieving this through an offboard scaler or via HTPC processing this doesn't count, since there's no reason to believe that the extensive processing required to convert from 60i/p output can be economically embedded in a player.

Let me see if I get this right. The disc is 24p. The decoder generates 24p. The player outputs this in 60i after adding duplicate fields. And you think it is expensive to output the original 24p?

There is absolutely no signal processing involved in outputting 24p. It actually involves doing less work, not more.

Quote:


Further, do you not agree that the current HD DVD spec will present issues for 24p output, such as PiP running at a different framerate? Is PiP supported at 24p in the HD DVD spec?

No more issues than it does in BD. If you have 60i PiP, you can butcher it to 24p at encode time in BD and never have the option of outputting it at 60i. Or you can do it in the player and give the user the choice to have optimal PiP or primary video. And with good processing, some combo of both (which can improve over time, unlike the BD approach of permanently harming the PiP).

I am sure folks can argue each side of this with the net being no advantage for either format. And if studios wanted, they could choose to author all PiP content in 24p in HD DVD just the same.

So really, your original argument was to propagate a myth. The place to do that is somewhere outside of this thread....
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post #58 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kdragon View Post

Questions for BD insiders: When will BD+ be used on Blu-ray discs? Is BD+ already supported in the current BD players?

SPE is not using BD+ at this time. My understanding is that BD players are BD+ compliant. We may never use BD+ unless we think we will achieve something by doing so. In any case, please remember that a legitimate user of players and content should never notice that copy protection is in use, whether it is AACS or BD+. If you are having any operational problems that you attribute to copy protection, please let me know.

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post #59 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 09:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

SPE is not using BD+ at this time. My understanding is that BD players are BD+ compliant. We may never use BD+ unless we think we will achieve something by doing so.

Amir claims that BD+ would be useless in the hypothetical case of AACS being cracked. Do you agree?
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post #60 of 4841 Old 12-27-2006, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob Zuber View Post

Amir claims that BD+ would be useless in the hypothetical case of AACS being cracked. Do you agree?

No I do not agree, but I cannot provide technical details about why I think BD+ will have teeth in the absence of AACS. The only reason for BD+ to exist is to give the studios some tools to protect content should a repeat of DeCSS happen with AACS.

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