Industry Insiders Master Q&A thread III: ONLY Questions to Insiders - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 3651 Old 06-05-2007, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caurus View Post

Maybe a Sony insider can help me with this one: I bought a PS3 (going neutral!) and it looks pretty cool except this remote control thing. Now I do have a universal bluetooth remote control! There is actually written Sony on it. But it is not working with the PS3. How weird is that? The universal bluetooth remote is actually a SonyEricsson K610i mobile phone, but it has the feature "bluetooth remote" (to get there I actually do have to click on an icon that looks like a PS3 game controller!). Is there any chance that there will be some kind of update - either for the phone or for the PS3 - so I can use this feature? It would be kind of cool if I could control at least the basic BD playback functions with my phone. I miss my xbox remote (I sold the xbox for a Toshi).

I have not tried the phone you are talking about, but it sounds interesting. Let me see what I can find out.

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post #242 of 3651 Old 06-05-2007, 06:51 PM
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I have had some feedback that Sony Computer Entertainment will try to put a feature in the next firmware update to deal with audio receivers not passing on the monitor capabilities and in turn knocking out 24p. Please pass the information on.

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post #243 of 3651 Old 06-05-2007, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

There are audio synchronization issues with The Matrix, with both Toshiba standalones and the Xbox 360 HD DVD.

Is Warner/Microsoft/Toshiba aware? If so, can you tell us if this is a disc issue, a hardware issue, or both? Is a fix in the works?

Ok, I have to try very hard to be polite here, as my frustration level is exceedingly high. I too am suffering from audio sync on The Matrix, using the 360 addon. After sitting on several unwatchable movies for six months waiting for the Xbox 360 update, and with the timing of the update seemingly allowing for verification of such a flagship title, you can imagine my utter disbelief and disappointment popping this title in and STILL having out-of-sync audio. It is very subtle, much less than other titles have had in the past, but it is there. It also appears to be a problem only with the first movie in the set.

Can you please please PLEASE confirm whether this is a player problem or an authoring problem, or both? Here are some very prominent test scenes for your engineers to verify the issue:

3:01 - Trinity's palm to the nose of the cop. The crack occurs while the cop's head is flying back, well after apparent contact.

11:21 - Trinity: "He told me I wasn't really looking for him, I was looking for an anwser." Pay close attention to her lip movements forming "he told me", "I was looking" - the visual movement comes a split second before the audio and the sound just doesn't match up.

52:40 - During the flurry of punches there is one where Morpheus delivers a side chop with his right arm, and Neo blocks it with his right forearm causing Morpheus' arm to bounce back. The sound of this block occurs while Morpheus' arm is flying back, not on visual contact. Compare this to one of the downloadable clips on Xbox Live Marketplace, in which the sound is right on. (Actually, this whole fight training scene is good for exhibiting the audio delay, both the fight sounds and the dialog if you pay close attention to the lip movements.)

1:43:34 - Neo firing single shots in slow-motion while doing a cartwheel. The first couple shots you can clearly notice the report occurring well after the muzzle flash. Again this one can be compared with a clip from XBLM where the reports are dead on with the flashes.

1:56:55 - Neo gives Smith two head butts. The thump sounds come not on contact but as Smith's head is flying back.

And on a more philosophical note, to any insider in any relevant capacity, can we get the whole general issue of audio sync bumped up a few notches in priority wherever it needs to be? Standards development, codec development, tool development, software, hardware, etc.? I realize this is all complex stuff, but come on, I remember running into the problem in the early days of DVD, and here we are, what, 10 years later and we still cannot get this very basic principle right? Even if someone could just decide to make it a standard requirement in every player/processor to allow the user to add a configurable delay to either the audio and video as necessary, after all other processing in the decoding path, so that at least as a last resort the user could correct for the apparently inevitable continuing problems?
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post #244 of 3651 Old 06-05-2007, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I have had some feedback that Sony Computer Entertainment will try to put a feature in the next firmware update to deal with audio receivers not passing on the monitor capabilities and in turn knocking out 24p. Please pass the information on.

Thanks Paidgeek for the feedback !
I'd also be interested in using my Sony-Ericsson w950i phone to control my PS3 !
Would be neat using the bluetooth device.
Especially to browse audio files without needing to turn on the monitor to get a display ! Like what a PSP can do actually.
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post #245 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 07:28 AM
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Do any insiders know where Talkstr8t went?

He hasn't posted here since 4/15. Did the IRS get him?

-Steve
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post #246 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 07:30 AM
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Can anybody speak to the level of Blu Ray Profile support in the newly announced Sony BDP-S300 Deck?

The specs page say nothing about it, but that seems par for the course.

-Steve
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post #247 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

I thought I saw an answer in here yesterday, but now I'll be darned if I can find it. Has it yet been determined whether the chip in the PS3 is capable of passing advanced audio codec via bitstream? I saw the 9134 and higher can do it -- 9133 can't. But I can't remember, is the PS3 the 9132? Also incapable?

Had a definitive answer been arrived at I'd have thought it would have become big news in the PS3 threads, but maybe it hasn't been weeded out?

Thanks for all your input, insiders!

What has been said by an HD DVD insider:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

...............Problem is, HDMI org until recently, highly promoted the optional features of the standard causing people for example to think every PS3 supports transmission of advanced codecs which we know now it does not.

Link

And a BD Insider:
Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

I have not tested it, but the PS3 should fully support up to 8ch LPCM or 8ch Dolby THD decoding to 8ch LPCM.

Link

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post #248 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paidgeek View Post

MIB is not in production at the moment, but it is being kept in mind.

As for the regularity of releases, please excuse the analogy, but we're not making toasters here... The releases are ramping up over the Summer and Fall, but like DVD, you should not expect to see precisely x number of titles per week.

I think I understand you don't make toasters, but I guess I was trying to say will we see more and more releases as time moves on with production ramping up greater than it's been the last year. There have been a lot of 'dead' periods from each studio - early adopters like us get impatient. But, I know time and resources are always limited.
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post #249 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 11:56 AM
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Paidgeek

Can you comment on this thread about Children of Men coming to Blu-Ray in Korea?

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857666

Do you have any information on this like languages etc?

Thank you so much for your hard work.

-Jim
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post #250 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 11:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

What has been said by an HD DVD insider:
Link

And a BD Insider:
Link

Paul

Appreciate you are trying to help with the answer but not sure how . I said it doesn't do compressed audio streams in the case of advanced codecs. Yet you quoted paid saying it sends out uncompressed streams. The two obviously have nothing to do with each other. The interest here is also in DTS lossless and hence the reason the question has come up, not TrueHD.
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post #251 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 12:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

To MS insiders:

This is more of a report and not a question, but here goes:

I have the 360 and the HD DVD add-on. I use VGA to connect to my 3yo Samsung DLP. Last night I was fiddling with Avia and the THX dropshadow screen on several discs. Both of these are 4:3 screens and show up in their native AR in the 360....

Thanks for the report. Let me see what I can find out.

Quote:


Question:

Amir, in your discussion of HDMI, you mention that a lot of installers you have talked to prefer to use component video over HDMI. Is this mainly for compatibility issues? Do these people not see a difference in PQ, or is it more that despite the edge in PQ with HDMI, it's close enough that their clients don't notice?
Thanks.

They see the tiniest bit of picture quality improvement with HDMI. But with it, they buy themselves huge amount of grief. They figure the client won't see the quality difference yet will readily notice a black image instead of the movie, on a Sunday afternoon with 20 people showing up to check out the expensive new installation .
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post #252 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Appreciate you are trying to help with the answer but not sure how . I said it doesn't do compressed audio streams in the case of advanced codecs. Yet you quoted paid saying it sends out uncompressed streams. The two obviously have nothing to do with each other. The interest here is also in DTS lossless and hence the reason the question has come up, not TrueHD.

The quotes were actually up on HTF, which is where I thought I saw my answer.

I understand paidgeek's response about uncompressed.

I also know that the PS3 currently does not support transmission of the compressed bitstreams. What I wanted to know was if the chip in the PS3 (9132?) truly makes this transmission impossible, or if the ability simply hasn't been enabled. I'm guessing the former.

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post #253 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 12:53 PM
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Paidgeek,

Thanks again for your participation here.

If you think of it, next time you speak with Sony Computer Entertainment, can you mention to them that the PS3 will still not upscale 480p material if it is on a Blu-Ray disc? It will from a DVD, but many extra features on BD are 480p. The 1.80 firmware is terrific and I assume this was just a minor oversight.

Thanks!
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post #254 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Appreciate you are trying to help with the answer but not sure how . I said it doesn't do compressed audio streams in the case of advanced codecs. Yet you quoted paid saying it sends out uncompressed streams. The two obviously have nothing to do with each other. The interest here is also in DTS lossless and hence the reason the question has come up, not TrueHD.

Thanks Amir,

Because of the scarcity of facts, it really helps me and hopefully others who have an interest, to keep all the information regarding the PS3's audio output for the advanced codecs together - both DTS-HD MA's & DD TrueHD compressed audio (bitstreams) - and/or the inboard decoding for the non compressed audio (LPCM), for a better over-all understanding of the PS3's system audio output and I did put the links to the sources, so people can read for themselves, the context in which the original statements were written.

To any Insider with the knowledge (if it's revealable):

Would it be correct to say that both the TrueHD lossless bitstream and the DTS lossless compressed audio streams cannot be transmitted from the PS3, unless it would have at least, the Si9134 transmission chip?

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post #255 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 04:11 PM
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Paidgeek,

Is a domestic release of Paprika on the schedule for this year?
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post #256 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

To MS insiders:

This is more of a report and not a question, but here goes:

I have the 360 and the HD DVD add-on. I use VGA to connect to my 3yo Samsung DLP. Last night I was fiddling with Avia and the THX dropshadow screen on several discs. Both of these are 4:3 screens and show up in their native AR in the 360.

Looking at black level with both of these, I noticed that if I use the Display button on the remote to bring up the software player's advanced bar, and cycle through the aspect ratios (native, stretch, etc.), if I cycle all the way through once and keep going, the black level changes slightly. What I mean is, if I set the black level so black is black and there is noise (on my set, "dark dark grey" shows up as specs of green/red/blue light in the black) above that, then if I cycle through the aspect ratios the black level changes and where it was black now I can see specs of colored light.

Luckily it seems to reset itself when I exit to the Dashboard and go back into the DVD. This doesn't seem to happen with widescreen stuff and HD DVDs, since they are flagged as widescreen and can't be switched to a different aspect ratio.

Ok, the team can't duplicate this. Can you please make sure you have the latest software for the 360?
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post #257 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 05:27 PM
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To any insider:

Are third or fourth generation players likely to produce better high definition picture quality than we're getting today? Are we going to see more decoder improvements, etc. or anything else that will noticably contribute?

Of course, we saw rapid improvements with SD DVD players over the years, but I believe more variables existed (such as moving from interaced players to deinterlacing, upscaling, etc.).
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post #258 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 06:54 PM
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There is nothing wrong with the picture today!

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post #259 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 06:57 PM
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Sorry to beat a dead horse here, but I have to ask. Is the playstation 3 able to run all aplications in rgb full? since the stand alone bluray player can run in either full or limited, I would assume the ps3 can too.
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post #260 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo88 View Post

The quotes were actually up on HTF, which is where I thought I saw my answer.

I understand paidgeek's response about uncompressed.

I also know that the PS3 currently does not support transmission of the compressed bitstreams. What I wanted to know was if the chip in the PS3 (9132?) truly makes this transmission impossible, or if the ability simply hasn't been enabled. I'm guessing the former.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post

Would it be correct to say that both the TrueHD lossless bitstream and the DTS lossless compressed audio streams cannot be transmitted from the PS3, unless it would have at least, the Si9134 transmission chip?



I copied this from a reply I posted in another thread:

The PS3 is a trickier issues than silicon, although that is probably going to be a mitigating factor... since ther is no DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out logo on the PS3, I would imagine that Sony hasn't paid for or implimented the proper DTS license, and enableing this feature, if physically possible for the unit to do with it's HDMI transmitter chip, would be a violation of their DTS licensing agreement....

It's the same thing Sony does for SACD (i.e. no license, no play).

Here are the logos for Digital Pass Through (note there are similar license requirements for decoders):

Quote:
DTS Pass Through Logos

DTS-HD 2.0 + Advanced Digital Out

DTS-HD 2.0 + Advanced Digital Out denotes the dual ability to output DTS-HD Master Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor as well as output DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Lossless channels directly to a TV or external amplifier through analog outputs. Use the logo shown at right.

DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out

DTS-HD Advanced Digital Out denotes the ability to output DTS-HD Master Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor. Use the logo shown at right.

DTS-HD 2.0 + Digital Out

DTS-HD 2.0+ Digital Out denotes the dual ability to output DTS-HD High Resolution Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor as well as output DTS-HD High Resolution Audio 2.0 channels directly to a TV or external amplifier through analog outputs. Use the logo shown at right.

DTS-HD Digital Out

DTS-HD Digital Out denotes the ability to output DTS-HD High Resolution Audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor. Use the logo shown at right.

DTS 2.0 + Digital Out

DTS 2.0 + Digital Out denotes the dual ability to output DTS Digital Surround audio streams to an external decoder such as an A/V receiver or pre-amp/processor as well as fold down the digital surround soundtrack for playback in a 2-channel environment through analog outputs. Use the logo shown at right.

DTS Digital Out

DTS Digital Out is used on hardware products that have been certified to successfully pass the DTS encoded digital bitstream to an external DTS decoder for playback. This is most commonly used on DVD players with a digital output that do not already carry an on-board DTS decoder. Use the logo shown at right.

DTS 2.0 Channel

DTS 2.0 Channel is used on hardware products that fold down a DTS multi-channel bitstream into a 2-channel output without any surround sound simulation, such as handheld DVD Players. Use logo configuration shown at right for equipment that does not include DTS bitstream output (SPDIF). Use the 2.0+Digital Out logo for equipment that offers both 2-channel downmix and full DTS bitstream output. Use the logo shown at right.

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post #261 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 07:15 PM
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Maybe if they activate it, it will be with a CD through the mail with a sticker that you need to put on the PS3

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post #262 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 07:15 PM
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Will future BD discs allow the resume function? It seems that POTC does not enable resume. This was a criticism of HD DVD early on. Will this be the case for future BD releases using BDs advanced authoring for the new profiles?

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post #263 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 08:39 PM
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hey amir....I'm sure you get asked a million questions and i am only typing this just to make sure it may have been over looked. Is there any word on the Tosh 51 GB disks??

Thanx!

xboxlive member name: Fatius Jeebs (there is a space between both names)
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post #264 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

There is nothing wrong with the picture today!

I'm not saying there is anything "wrong" with the HD players today - they are great.

But, is there potential for some more (minor?) improvement?
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post #265 of 3651 Old 06-06-2007, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Ok, the team can't duplicate this. Can you please make sure you have the latest software for the 360?


Yes, I have the latest software. I'm on XBL 4~5 times a week at the very least.

It may be subtle and hard to see. I only noticed because my 3yo Samsung DLP shows dark, dark grey, just above black, with green, red and blue dots (mostly green stands out). If the display doesn't do this, it would probably be very difficult to tell by eye. Up close I can just see the dots...

Oh well, it's not a big deal.
Thank you very much for checking it, though.
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post #266 of 3651 Old 06-07-2007, 08:00 AM
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I'm sort of a semi-insider, one could say. I guess.

Anyway, I've just confirmed that PS3 (with firmware 1.80) is unable to deliver compressed DTHD and DTS-HD MA as bitstream over HDMI. Verified this by connecting it to an Onkyo TX-SR605. Onkyo receives a regular DTS stream when PS3 is playing DTS-HD MA, and a 640 kbps Dolby Digital track when disc audio is DTHD.

In the interests of parity, I can also verify that Toshiba XE1/XA2 won't pass the new audio codecs as bitstream either.

I won't pay a cent for UHD Blu-rays made from 2K masters by upscaling.
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post #267 of 3651 Old 06-07-2007, 10:32 AM
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^^ Please see my above post.

I don't see this as happening with current players.

But, as has been said by myself and many others, there should be no real world performance issues with the audio quality from player based decoding.
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post #268 of 3651 Old 06-07-2007, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

^^ Please see my above post.

I don't see this as happening with current players.

But, as has been said by myself and many others, there should be no real world performance issues with the audio quality from player based decoding.

I'm seriously starting to think receiver decoding is going to become redundant much like DD/DTS decoding in DVD players. But it should still pay to have a good amp/receiver to take advantage of the best audio signals anybody's ever had for movies.

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post #269 of 3651 Old 06-07-2007, 11:11 AM
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Paidgeek,

I recently bought a Playstation 3 when I heard about the 24p firmware upgrade. However I soon realized that there is a problem with Samsung M86 EDID. It doesn't send out information that it supports 24p (even though it actually does support it) and therefore I can't get it from the PS3 since there is only Auto and Off as option. I know it's not the PS3's fault but I would be very pleased if in future firmware upgrades there would be a third choice "Source Direct" as in Sony BDP-S1 and S300 Blu-Ray Players so I can force 24p out from the PS3.
Perhaps you can let Sony Computer Entertainment know

Thanks for answering questions here!
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post #270 of 3651 Old 06-07-2007, 11:52 AM
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Paidgeek has already stated that Sony is working on the 1080/24 issue and it should be fixed in the next firmware update.
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