DU Test screenshots thread (big files!) for HD DVD and Blu-Ray - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 09:22 AM
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Grand Prix HD DVD

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





(EDITED with new methods for max sharpness.)

Very slight difference... probably due to NR
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post #92 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 09:23 AM
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Grand Prix (second shot) - - Edited to add blowups below

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





(EDITED with new images from improved techniques)

No perceptible difference.
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post #93 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 09:25 AM
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Bat Man Begins HD DVD

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





(EDITED with better technique for better details - sorry folks, learning curve!)

No perceivable difference.
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post #94 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 09:26 AM
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Aeon Flux HD DVD

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





Noticeable difference - Greater than 720p detail is present.
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post #95 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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RdJam, please stop. Those DU Tests are wrong. I don't know what procedure are you following to generate the DU images, but I can assure you it's not the correct one.

Look:



If you want to help, please, read the procedure in the first post and change back those images with the right DU Tests images. Thx.
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post #96 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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The Wild (Blu-Ray)

DU Test for 720p:



Very noticeable differences. Full HD Quality ***.


UPDATE: The Upscaling-Downscaling test images have been updated with the new method estabilished in post #179.
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post #97 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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V for Vendetta (HD DVD)

DU Test for 720p:



No noticeable difference. Let's proceed to the 480p DU test:



Very noticeable difference. The master is definitely above 480p. Verdict: HD Ready Quality Master ***.
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post #98 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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The Brothers Grimm (Blu-Ray)

DU Test for 720p:





Very noticeable differences. Definitely Full HD Quality Master ***.


UPDATE: The Upscaling-Downscaling test images have been updated with the new method estabilished in post #179.
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post #99 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancescoP View Post

I don't know what procedure are you following to generate the DU images, but I can assure you it's not the correct one.

If you want to help, please, read the procedure in the first post and change back those images with the right DU Tests images. Thx.

I've re-done that post using only Bicubic both ways and have just reposted it. (I previously figured that upscaling with lanczos would have been smoother).

I'll modify the rest of the posts also. (thanks for PM)

EDIT: don't forget to "refresh" to see the newer versions.
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post #100 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Rdjam, your DU images still do not match the ones made with the correct procedure.

Can you tell me the steps you are following? And what version of photoshop are you using? Thx.
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post #101 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 11:38 AM
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Lanczos will add EE. While this may good for upscaling it will completely skew the results here.

re:HoFD

The 480p test shows a pretty noticable lost. I would conclude that the effective res is better than 480 but well below 720.

re: Black Hawk Down

Fine details are already starting to disappear in the 720p test so it's above that.

re: Scorpion King

I see details that are gone in the 720p test.
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post #102 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 12:27 PM
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Harry Potter HD DVD

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





Details already disappearing at 720p. Detail present is greater than 720p.
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post #103 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 12:58 PM
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Great work Men!!!

How about Apocalypto?
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post #104 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 01:15 PM
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Into The Blue - Bluray

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





Zero difference at all - Detail in this film is only equivalent to 720p, not 1080p.
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post #105 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 01:27 PM
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Mission Impossible - Bluray

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





The macroblocking does make this a little tougher, but if you look at the tiny specks in the green iris of the eye, you can see more detail.

As with the HD DVD version tested before, detail greater than 720p is present in this film.
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post #106 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancescoP View Post

RdJam, please stop. Those DU Tests are wrong. I don't know what procedure are you following to generate the DU images, but I can assure you it's not the correct one.

If you want to help, please, read the procedure in the first post and change back those images with the right DU Tests images. Thx.

What, you mean rdjam is manipulating the process to "prove" HD DVD and/or VC-1's "superiority", even after multiple sources, including Xylon's mouseover website, proves he's wrong?

That's unpossible!

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post #107 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 02:05 PM
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Lord Of War - Bluray

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





Owch - I'm having a really tough time with this one. There is really not much difference between the too, only ever so slight.

I'll leave this call to someone else... Although it looks slightly more detailed than 720p, there is really not enough difference to call it a Full 1080p detail.

EDITED - to remove any references to Master.
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post #108 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Zero discernible difference - not a full HD master

Invalid conclusion. You tested one frame, not the whole master.
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post #109 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Invalid conclusion. You tested one frame, not the whole master.

With respect, it's the same conclusion drawn by other posters based on single frames. I did choose a brightly lit frame, since it would likely have more detail. But certainly, other frames can be checked...

EDIT: as agreed later on in this thread, these tests are great for seeing what detail quality is in the film release, but not so great for guessing what the master was. Judgements will only be on the HD or BD disc release themselves, in terms of detail quality, not the masters.
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post #110 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 02:49 PM
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Pirates Of The Caribbean - Bluray

This may be the shocker of the whole thread. I deleted my last post of it and re-did it all from scratch to make sure there was no mistake.

Francesco, please could you run yours and check if you get a similar result? This is from Xylon's post at https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10822869

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





Very little difference between the DU version at 720p and the Bluray version...

That said, there is a slight difference, but nothing like the detail one sees in King Kong, for instance.
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post #111 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancescoP View Post

Rdjam, your DU images still do not match the ones made with the correct procedure.

Can you tell me the steps you are following? And what version of photoshop are you using? Thx.

I think this just highlights the fallacy of relying on specific photoshop filters as a benchmark. We can be fairly certain that the studios aren't using photoshop to upscale the masters. Without insider knowledge, there is no way to verify what proprietary algorithms they might be using (which could differ between studios, or even the same studio as we have seen with TFE). There are just too many variables for the test to prove anything more than just a ballpark figure.

I agree that all comparisons in the thread should adhere to the same procedure, or else there is no way to compare different films. However it still casts some doubt on the validity of using certain scaling methods over others. Not to mention the degradation of the detail when rescaling an image twice. Just hear me out for a second.

When the movie was transfered into HD lets assume the master was HD-ready at 720P. They then use their proprietary upscaling to re-master the movie at 1080P. That full-quality file is then compressed to fit on a disc (VC-1, MPEG2, etc.). Then to do the DU test you are shrinking the image, then resizing it. By the time all those operations are done, the image from the master has been altered a total of 4 times. The resulting image would not be indicative of the actual quality of the uncompressed master. It is still useful for ballpark comparison, but it doesn't tell the full story.

It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with the DVD release and/or HDnet and SD-cable broadcasts. Some of the posts suggested that the BD/HD versions were just upscaled DVD, but I have a feeling that the quality is still noticeably better than SD even at 480P.
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post #112 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:


I agree that all comparisons in the thread should adhere to the same procedure

Did you guys miss my lovely Photoshop CS2 action that automates the whole lot for you and provides a consistant basis for comaprision?

Quote:


Photoshop action can be downloaded here:
http://david2k.orcon.net.nz/photosh...m%20Actions.atn

Notes:
- I run it directly from the actions tab/window, as i haven't tested it on a batch job.
- Source image should be 1920x1080, and a PNG per above.
- 720p sample is downscalled to 1280 x 720
- 720p sample is downscalled to 720 x 480

PS I'm more than happy to see that action be modified/improved etc.

For those that want to compare from the website hosted images i recomend downlaoding them to a fold and the flickign through them at 100%. Makes it much easier to spot the difference.

Quote:


It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with the DVD release and/or HDnet and SD-cable broadcasts. Some of the posts suggested that the BD/HD versions were just upscaled DVD, but I have a feeling that the quality is still noticeably better than SD even at 480P.

I agree, actualy DVD shots would be great as you've able able to see compression artifacts all over the place + the color differences between formats.

FYI for anyone doing comparisons of images hosted on my site, many are 1920x1088. You will want to crop the bottom 8 black pixels before runnning the photoshop action above.

International HDDVD Screenshot Archive (Full 1080p Images): www.hdmovies.co.nz
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post #113 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 03:06 PM
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The Frighteners - HD DVD

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





Significant differences in fine detail. 1080p detail present, exceeds 720p.
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post #114 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybereality View Post

I think this just highlights...

I agree that it is hard to come up with one hard and fast rule for comparisons of different films, but I think that Francesco's methodology for this test is quite sound.

It may not be perfect, but in practice, dropping the res will eliminate any detail that is of a higher frequency than what a 108op master may have been able to carry. If a lot of detail disappears in this test, then one can be reasonably sure that the film had a great 1080p master.

However, some studios may be upscaling lower res master for these releases. During the upscaling, some processes can actually inentionally add additional noise (ie "grain") to give the appearance of greater resolution. In these cases, you may see some of the "noise" dropped in this test, but no difference in real detail of object in the frame.

It's a tough one to call, but by and large, this test can have it's benefits, IMO.

Quote:


It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with the DVD release and/or HDnet and SD-cable broadcasts. Some of the posts suggested that the BD/HD versions were just upscaled DVD, but I have a feeling that the quality is still noticeably better than SD even at 480P.

As long as we realize that we'll see much bigger chunks of noise or artifacts which can make the picture look very different. The Traffic example above, however, is one example that really seemed to match the lower res source.
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post #115 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Pirates Of The Caribbean - Bluray

This may be the shocker of the whole thread. I deleted my last post of it and re-did it all from scratch to make sure there was no mistake.

Well, you didn't scan beyond the left side then. That part of the frame isn't in full focus. Orlando Bloom's character and the lantern on the right show detail above 720p.



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post #116 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Well, you didn't scan beyond the left side then. That part of the frame isn't in full focus. Orlando Bloom's character and the lantern on the right show detail above 720p.

I looked at the whole picture to find the sharpest parts, and yes, the character on the left WAS in focus.

Here is the rest of the frame. There is no discernable difference.

I think the best way the settle this is to find another very good frame from the film and analyze that one also.

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080



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post #117 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 03:49 PM
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Can I ask a VERY stupid question?

When you test a screen capture from a 2.35:1 movie are you scaling the whole image including the black bars or just the active area containing picture?

I ask this because for scope movies the active picture will only have up to 800 lines of resolution, therefore if you scale the active image down and up it will only show 720pish resolution.

Sorry if I've missed something and this has already been explained but I can't see it addressed earlier in the thread and it's interesting to note that 1.85:1 movies are returning full HD more often than 2.35:1.
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post #118 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 03:49 PM
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Key differences seem most apparent in the hair, the ear crease, and the lantern.

Margot Robbie is THE most exquisite human creature on the face of the planet, in this moment in time.
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post #119 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 03:56 PM
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Casino Royale - Bluray

1080p Original . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1080>720<1080





There is a distinct difference here - more detail in the original. Good 1080p detail.
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post #120 of 498 Old 07-11-2007, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I looked at the whole picture to find the sharpest parts, and yes, the character on the left WAS in focus.

Here is the rest of the frame. There is no discernable difference.

Yeah, except the ear and other details are sharper, therefor the focus point is on Bloom and the latern/post on the right. The guy on the left is a few feet away and is slightly softer.

Quote:


I think the best way the settle this is to find another very good frame from the film and analyze that one also.

Like on page 2 of this thread?

We already know there is detail well beyond 720p in the transfer. Whether or not every frame has that kind of detail is the question and the frame you picked out has it.
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