Japanese DVD Forum Conference 10/4/07 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 11:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Here is the entire agenda for this conference:

Yes, that is a schedule. Do see disc sizes directly mentioned? I suspect they were discussed.
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post #92 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 11:26 AM
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AH0-22 has been "studying" RPC on HD DVD since it was approved as an Ad Hoc group at SC34 back in May 2006 in an effort to appease some fence sitters.

Study, study, study!

EDIT: Technically, it was being studied prior to May 2006...I think it started formally in February 2006, based on discussions from late 2005.

Alex doesn't live here anymore
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post #93 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelHDDVD View Post

Bandwidth is a non-issue

Now that I can agree with, but considering all the enthusiasm for TL51 I think space is a little more desired than previously admitted. I did find Bandwidth to be a little silly, since Payback had a horrible translation while something like PoC2 had beautiful clarity.
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post #94 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by plasmalover View Post

Funny.......When BDA has region encoding, it's a bad thing for the consumers...blah.....blah blah.....

Now if HD-DVD get it, it will be cheered.......How hypocritical

sounds a little fanboyish
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post #95 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 11:50 AM
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Got this from a slide regarding TL51

Ver. 1.9 (-> Ver 2.0)

Might not be good news. Looks like TL51 is going to be moved to a new spec number.
Could indicate incompatibility with existing hardware specs.
But It can also mean that the finalized spec is going to be 2.0. Soon perhaps?



ETM And FSM (Used in the China spec 10.0) state the low level modulation scheme used to write the data on the disc.


Interesting point about ETM:

Quote:


4) Realization of stable operation on the compatible drive.
- In order to achieve not only high density and large capacity but also stable operation for HD DVDs, an adaptive PRML system was developed, and an ETM modulation code was adopted. The ETM code is suitable for the PRML system. By adoption of this adaptive PRML system and ETM code, amplitude margin deterioration is compensated for by stable high-density playback operation.
- Drive operation for DVDs and CDs is realized through maximum exertion of current DVD/CD compatible drive firmware technology and LSI technology, which was developed for the present DVD combo drive business.

from: http://www.nec.co.jp/press/en/0412/2002.html

The interesting part is that an adaptive prml system looks like an integral part of HD DVD drive technology. So TL compatibility isn't ruled out for early generation players yet.


FSM
Could mean Frequency Shift Modulation or Frequency Specific Modulation
Could not find much on that.

An entire diffrent modulation scheme means that Chinese discs will probably never play in current HD DVD players.
But perhaps existing drives are capable of reading both. ('adaptive pmrl'?)

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #96 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 11:59 AM
 
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Frank:

Quote:


Got this from a slide regarding TL51

Ver. 1.9 (-> Ver 2.0)

Might not be good news. Looks like TL51 is going to be moved to a new spec number.
Could indicate incompatibility with existing hardware specs.
But It can also mean that the finalized spec is going to be 2.0. Soon perhaps?

The First Approval for the TL51 was given on 9/12 and is version 1.9. There is a Final Production Approval yet to be given - IMO - that approval will be version 2.0 - the "final spec" for the TL51
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post #97 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:04 PM
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A revision of the spherical aberration code does not mean that existing players cannot read this.

Nice try, though.

I think the BD bunch are trying very hard to turn this meeting into some proof that HD DVD is "doomed yet again"
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post #98 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:06 PM
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rdjam,

I have no idea what sherical apperition or whatever means,.. I was trying to be a little funny. I think it refers to refocusing the laser but anyway,.. sometimes when I joke,.. you can't tell maybe because it lacks teh funny.
Next time I'll put a smilie or try to make a joke that's funny or both.

-Brian
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post #99 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

rdjam,

I have no idea what sherical apperition or whatever means,.. I was trying to be a little funny. I think it refers to refocusing the layer but anyway,.. sometimes when I joke,.. you can't tell maybe because it lacks teh funny.

-Brian

Sorry, Brian - I must have inadvertantly mistaken your jocular statement for FUD.
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post #100 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

rdjam,

I have no idea what sherical apperition or whatever means,.. I was trying to be a little funny. I think it refers to refocusing the layer but anyway,.. sometimes when I joke,.. you can't tell maybe because it lacks teh funny.
Next time I'll put a smilie or try to make a joke that's funny or both.

-Brian

I thought it was funny.....
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post #101 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:19 PM
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Spherical aberation

Lens focusses rays falling at different angles on a lens system not in a single point.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #102 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Sorry, Brain - I must have inadvertantly mistaken your jocular statement for FUD.


LOL how many times do people named Brian get called Brain by mistake? I first heard it when I was a kid, and I still chuckle.

I'd love to get my hands on a Blu Monster's Ball.-LilStinky

Refering to a possible release of said movie on BD LOL
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post #103 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:32 PM
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Although I doubt Fox is considering HD DVD now, if HD DVD prevails, I would say that single region coding will need be available and HD DVD should admit the mistake and implement it now. There is nothing to indicate that the market can sustain both formats so doing whatever is necessary to satisfy all studios makes the most sense. Paramount, Warner, Universal and the rest can continue to release titles without ever using single region coding. The last time I looked at all of the Blu-ray releases that had used single region coding, Disney, Buena Vista and Sony did have some, but it wasn't nearly a majority that used it but still it needs to be an option for those studios as well.

It was just a dumb move by HD DVD not to offer the option in the first place and all it could ever possibly mean is that HD DVD would not have any releases that required region coding, not that Fox could be forced to release titles without single region coding. The sooner HD DVD admits the mistake and fixes it, the better off the format will be for the long haul, if there is one.

Chris
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post #104 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:38 PM
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While everyone is discussing this press conference, Pans labyrinth has been announced in the US, it does hint at region coding for hd dvd.

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=66078

Quote:


The Blu-ray Disc release is coded for Region A, but so is the HD DVD release if you believe the back cover artwork. We’re certain it’s just a mistake as there is no region coding on HD DVD, but it’s bound to get chins wagging over the next few days!

Is it a mistake???
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post #105 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Is it a mistake???

I would say it likely is. If a HD-DVD movie implemented region coding, I doubt everyone would find out about it due to some cover art. As it would be the first movie to do so, some sort of coverage would be expected.
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post #106 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urza View Post

LOL how many times do people named Brian get called Brain by mistake? I first heard it when I was a kid, and I still chuckle.

Heh! Thanks Urza - fixed!
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post #107 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:47 PM
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Most likely the releases share a large part of the artwork.
Most likely forgot to remove the region code indication from the HD DVD artwork.

Stereo is simply Multichannel light.
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post #108 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:48 PM
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rdjam,

I noticed your avatar looks very "blue", doesn't it?? Are you trying to tell us something sub consciously???
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post #109 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post

Most likely the releases share a large part of the artwork.
Most likely forgot to remove the region code indication from the HD DVD artwork.

I haven't been able to find an image of the back covers yet.
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post #110 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Gerhard View Post

Although I doubt Fox is considering HD DVD now, if HD DVD prevails, I would say that single region coding will need be available and HD DVD should admit the mistake and implement it now. There is nothing to indicate that the market can sustain both formats so doing whatever is necessary to satisfy all studios makes the most sense. Paramount, Warner, Universal and the rest can continue to release titles without ever using single region coding. The last time I looked at all of the Blu-ray releases that had used single region coding, Disney, Buena Vista and Sony did have some, but it wasn't nearly a majority that used it but still it needs to be an option for those studios as well.

It was just a dumb move by HD DVD not to offer the option in the first place and all it could ever possibly mean is that HD DVD would not have any releases that required region coding, not that Fox could be forced to release titles without single region coding. The sooner HD DVD admits the mistake and fixes it, the better off the format will be for the long haul, if there is one.

Chris


Just out of curiosity, do you know the whole story behind region coding and how it's being utilized in Europe these days? It's an antiquated idea that serves no purpose now. Do you realize that nearly every player sold in the EU is either all-region coded or can be "upgraded" to ensure region playback from all regions?

What's the point?
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post #111 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid101 View Post

Just out of curiosity, do you know the whole story behind region coding and how it's being utilized in Europe these days? It's an antiquated idea that serves no purpose now. Do you realize that nearly every player sold in the EU is either all-region coded or can be "upgraded" to ensure region playback from all regions?

What's the point?

Disney uses it for their Vault advertising.

Also different distributors distribute the same films in different areas. For instance, Sony holds the distribution rights to Underworld in the US.... whereas some other manufacturer holds the rights elsewhere. Meaning the one that releases first could potentially cut into the sales numbers of the other place.... etc
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post #112 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:06 PM
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Thanks for the info wnorris, interesting stuff.
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post #113 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:09 PM
 
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Yes . . Thank you wnorris for getting us the facts.
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post #114 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:14 PM
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funny thread, thanks for the entertainment.

dooooooooooooooooooooooomed!
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post #115 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Yes . . Thank you wnorris for getting us the facts.

Well, this is just my translation. I wouldn't call them facts, as I'm not an expert translator or anything. However, my translation is vastly different from KL's interpretation of a bad machine translation.

I may be getting some of the minute details wrong, but my basic impression is that it mostly works, but there are some questions about can it do this, or what if we want to do that, etc. Trivial stuff like whether they can put two readable bar codes in the center vs one (so maybe DVD Profiler won't be able to read the disc ID automatically and add the disc to your collection).

I think the only potential serious hurdle could be with the region coding. Depending on what they discover, it could mean that a disc must choose to have region coding for either the DVD layer, or the HD layer, but not both. This may mean studios like Fox or Disney would refuse to use it because they want region coding on both.

Of course, it just means no twin disc, not no TL51 HD DVD with a seperate DVD release.

The other big issue could potentially be (in translation it isn't clear if the spherical abberation is referring to only HD DVD, or also DVD) that they learn 50% of DVD players on the market won't read twin discs because they aboslutely need PRML to correct for spherical abberation and don't have it. Then they would need to decide if they want to go forward with marketing Twin Disc at all (is it worth the hassel), or does it just change strategy (new DVD players add a PRML logo to their box, and consumers get educated that they need to buy these to play the new Twin Discs). Since spherical abberation gets worse the closer and further away you get from the focal point, it would seem layer 3 (the furthest away) would be the most effected. I think the slide that shows the change in thickness is basically saying it is possible to change the spacing on three layers so that layer 3 is much closer to where it would typically be for DVD, which may negate the need for PRML on DVD players (so one layer spacing for TL51 and a seperate spacing for 3 layer Twin Disc).

It's all still being investigated. So I will agree that nothing about triple layer is a slam dunk just yet. But nothing here points that they have concretely identified a problem.
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post #116 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Well, this is just my translation. I wouldn't call them facts, as I'm not an expert translator or anything. However, my translation is vastly different from KL's interpretation of a bad machine translation.

I may be getting some of the minute details wrong, but my basic impression is that it mostly works, but there are some questions about can it do this, or what if we want to do that, etc. Trivial stuff like whether they can put two readable bar codes in the center vs one (so maybe DVD Profiler won't be able to read the disc ID automatically and add the disc to your collection).

I think the only potential serious hurdle could be with the region coding. Depending on what they discover, it could mean that a disc must choose to have region coding for either the DVD layer, or the HD layer, but not both. This may mean studios like Fox or Disney would refuse to use it because they want region coding on both.

Of course, it just means no twin disc, not no TL51 HD DVD with a seperate DVD release
.

Is it possible to offer the DL/TL Twin with region coding on the DVD layer(s) and not that HD layer(s)?

Wouldn't this satisfy the requirements on both platforms? (DVD is region coded - HD DVD is not)

Do we know if Freedom 1 & 2 have region coding on the SD layer?
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post #117 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:24 PM
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Well, in the absence of neutral data I guess wnorris must be right. If he can't read Japanese or understand the data he sure is faking it well. A Google translation is at best iffy anyway.
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post #118 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:29 PM
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re: region coding.

while this might be a big huge deal to some here, either because they import disks or so they can use it to bludgeon the "other side" with, i can't see that it affects the overall "format war" (geez, i hate that term, there's gotta be something else to call it) one bit... the average joe/jane on the street doesn't care a whit about region coding... when (if?) he/she decides to purchase a high def player, region coding won't play into their decision at all...

- chris

 

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post #119 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelHDDVD View Post

I hope we can get this properly translated, some of it doesn't make any sense.

I think it's rude for other countries to use a foreign language!
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post #120 of 192 Old 10-04-2007, 01:39 PM
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It would give them very high resale value

It is the disc, not the player that is region coded, I believe.
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