el Gato is bringing the QAM back!!! Multiple-user software and HDHomerun!!! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_hdhomerun

Quote:


EyeTV Multi-user Software
The HDHomeRun for Mac bundle includes the award winning EyeTV software for two computers.

Interesting. One tuner, watch wherever? Not sure how well this works with EyeTV Archives.

Quote:


Users who already have an EyeTV tuner on their Mac will be able to use both the local and network tuners through the same EyeTV software.

Now you can watch free digital over-the-air or cable TV from all the Macs in your home or office.

The HDHomeRun for Mac is an unique centralized digital TV tuner that connects to your Ethernet network, and can be shared by any Mac using the included EyeTV software. Thanks to its dual tuners, two users can be watching or recording different programs at the same time.

Because the HDHomeRun is a network device, you don't need to have an antenna or cable TV outlet near your computer. You just locate the HDHomeRun tuner wherever you have a convenient antenna or cable outlet and connect it to your network.

Still need a better editor(VideoRedoPlus for Mac) and real support for .ts in EyeTV or Frontrow, but this is major news.
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post #2 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 08:24 AM
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That's a very tempting device. Thanks for the link. Maybe even more tempting than the TiVo HD thingy.

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post #3 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 09:26 AM
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I can't tell from the website, but is this going to be a free update for current EyeTV users? That is.... must we buy a HDHomeRun from Elgato to get the software? Elgato is selling the tuner at a premium since it comes bundled with the software.
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post #4 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 09:57 AM
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This is very tempting, although I'm happy with my Series 3 TiVo. I'll be curious to see how it handles recording two things at the same time. I never watch live TV (well, almost never), so recording two things is much more important than recording one and watching one.
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post #5 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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My assumption is that yes this is another version of the software, but probably included in EyeTV 3 whenever that hits the market. The FAQ has me smiling wide over multiple tuners. Yeah, multiples of multituner boxes.


FAQs 544-557
Quote:


http://faq.elgato.com/index.php/faq/more/544

Can I use a wireless network with HDHomeRun?

HDHomeRun typically receives video streams between 19 and 38 Mbps. This means 100BaseT Ethernet (100Mbps) is the ideal network setup. 802.11 wireless probably won't offer enough bandwidth - even the new 802.11n architecture may not perform as well as 100BaseT.

If you try to use HDHomeRun with a network not up to the task, then the video may not appear at all. If your network is filled with lots of other traffic, then that can also affect the performance of HDHomeRun.

HDHomeRun needs a DHCP server to function

HDHomeRun is a network device that needs to be automatically assigned an network address (IP address) via a DHCP server. It is not able to automatically configure itself via Bonjour, nor can it be directly connected to your Mac via an Ethernet cable. Neither patch nor crossover Ethernet cables will work, since your Mac is not normally a DHCP server.

Please connect HDHomeRun to a router that has a DHCP server, so it can be assigned an IP address. Or, connected it to a network that has a DHCP server somewhere on it.

How do I connect a video source to HDHomeRun?

HDHomeRun has two tuners, each of which can receive both antenna (ATSC) or cable (ClearQAM). Each tuner can receive only one type of video at a time. That means you can have each tuner set to cable, each tuner set to antenna, or one set to antenna and one to cable. You can also set one or both tuners to not used, meaning that it will capture no video.

Each tuner is labeled. The one on the left is #1, and the one on the right is #0. When you open a Live TV window from a tuner, its number will be listed at the beginning of the title bar - for example, tuner #1 will be listed as Eyetv/1.


How do I setup more than one HDHomeRun on my network?

HDHomeRun has two tuners, each of which can receive both antenna (ATSC) or cable (ClearQAM). Each tuner can receive only one type of video at a time. That means you can have each tuner set to cable, each tuner set to antenna, or one set to antenna and one to cable. You can also set one or both tuners to not used, meaning that it will capture no video.

Each HDHomeRun unit has an unique number, that is printed on the bottom of it, and that is used by EyeTV to identify it on the network. If you have more than one HDHomeRun attached to your network, then each one will be identified by its unique number, in the EyeTV Setup Assistant.


How do I setup more than one HDHomeRun on my network?

HDHomeRun has two tuners, each of which can receive both antenna (ATSC) or cable (ClearQAM). Each tuner can receive only one type of video at a time. That means you can have each tuner set to cable, each tuner set to antenna, or one set to antenna and one to cable. You can also set one or both tuners to not used, meaning that it will capture no video.

Each HDHomeRun unit has an unique number, that is printed on the bottom of it, and that is used by EyeTV to identify it on the network. If you have more than one HDHomeRun attached to your network, then each one will be identified by its unique number, in the EyeTV Setup Assistant.


What new settings are there in EyeTV for HDHomeRun?

HDHomeRun has a few features new to EyeTV, so some extra settings have been added to the EyeTV Preferences.

General Preferences has an option that can be used with HDHomeRun: Always open TV in new window. With this turned on, each tuner will display live TV in a separate window. This option is recommended for HDHomeRun users who intend on using both tuners at the same time.

Devices Preferences has a option to view the Signal. This will display separate Signal Strength and Signal Quality for each tuner, via animated bar graphs.

Can you use one HomeRun with more than one Mac on the same network?

Since HDHomeRun is a network device with two tuners, you can use each tuner with any Mac on your local network (subnet) that has EyeTV software installed. You can use both tuners with one Mac, or one tuner with one Mac, and the other tuner with another Mac.

If all tuners are in use, and another Mac tries to grab one, then an error message will appear, indicating which Mac is using that tuner. Once that tuner window is closed on one Mac, then it can be grabbed by another Mac.

What do the lights on the HDHomeRun unit mean?

HDHomeRun has 5 lights on the front of the unit.

The light on the far left is a power indicator - if it is on, then the unit is receiving power.

In the center there is a black section, with 4 lights in a row.

The first light indicates an Ethernet Link.

The second light indicates if Tuner 0 is streaming.

The third light indicates if Tuner 1 is streaming.

The fourth light is not in use when HDHomeRun is connected to EyeTV.

Can HDHomeRun use a remote control?

When used with EyeTV, HDHomeRun cannot receive infrared (IR) signals from a remote control.

If your Mac has an IR receiver, and came with an Apple Remote, then you can use that remote to control the EyeTV software.
What sort of network will work best with HDHomeRun?

HDHomeRun typically receives video streams between 19 and 38 Mbps. This means 100BaseT Ethernet (100Mbps) is the ideal network setup. 802.11 wireless probably won't offer enough bandwidth - even the new 802.11n architecture may not perform as well as 100BaseT.

If you try to use HDHomeRun with a network not up to the task, then the video may not appear at all. If your network is filled with lots of other traffic, then that can also affect the performance of HDHomeRun.

How to do I view multiple Live TV windows when using HDHomeRun?

General Preferences has an option that can be used with HDHomeRun: Always open TV in new window. With this turned on, each tuner will display live TV in a separate window. This option is recommended for HDHomeRun users who intend on using both tuners at the same time.

Each Live TV window will have a title, that starts with the name of the tuner: EyeTV/0 or EyeTV/1.

Many channels may be shared by the same frequency. You can check this via the Channels section of the EyeTV Programs window, which lists frequencies along with other channel information.

If you want to open up all channels shared by the same frequency (multiplex), then go to the File menu, hold down the Control key on the keyboard, and then Open Live TV Window changes to Open Live TV on Multiplex. Use that command once for each additional window you want to open up.

Can I use HDHomeRun on a mixed PC/Mac/Linux network?

Versions of the HDHomeRun hardware are also available for use with Windows or Linux. If you own one of those versions, then it can exist on the same network as the HDHomeRun from Elgato.

EyeTV software can access and control any HDHomeRun hardware on your network. Any tuner input can be used with any software client, so one could be used by EyeTV, and another by a HDHomeRun compatible Windows or Linux client.


Can HDHomeRun receive analog signals?

HDHomeRun can only receive digital signals. It cannot receive analog antenna, analog cable, composite or S-Video.

It can only receive digital antenna (ATSC) or unencrypted digital cable (ClearQAM). These are standards only available in North America, so the HDHomeRun is only for that region.

If you need to receive analog signals, then consider another EyeTV unit, like EyeTV Hybrid or EyeTV 250.

What should I do if the HDHomeRun is not connected to EyeTV?

If the HDHomeRun loses the connection to one or more Macs on your network, then please try the following steps:

1) Check all network connections. Make sure the cables are still connected, and that the DHCP server on your network is still active.

2) Make sure that your HDHomeRun unit is selected in the EyeTV Setup Assistant, from the Help Menu.

3) Make sure that one or both tuners are available for use, by checking other EyeTV clients on your network. If both tuners are in use, then HDHomeRun can't be used by another Mac.

4) Unplug and replug the power to the HDHomeRun. It will take about 30 seconds to reboot.

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post #6 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

I can't tell from the website, but is this going to be a free update for current EyeTV users? That is.... must we buy a HDHomeRun from Elgato to get the software? Elgato is selling the tuner at a premium since it comes bundled with the software.

The website says that current owners can buy just the HDHomeRun and then contact their support site for a link to the updated software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkscout View Post

This is very tempting, although I'm happy with my Series 3 TiVo. I'll be curious to see how it handles recording two things at the same time. I never watch live TV (well, almost never), so recording two things is much more important than recording one and watching one.

This is certainly a step in the right direction, however, it's still lacking some things that I want/need. Cable Card support and NTSC tuner (not all of our cable channels are A/D simulcast).

This is (on paper) a much better option than the Miglia TVmini HD+ ... even without NTSC.

I will still probably sit this one out as our Sony DVR is still working fine. I'll probably jump in if/when CableCard support is available.
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post #7 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph S View Post

Still need a better editor(VideoRedoPlus for Mac) and real support for .ts in EyeTV or Frontrow, but this is major news.

I agree with that statement. Interestingly, according to MacWorld's report the new tuner is made by SiliconeDust. That's not a company I ever heard of. I wonder what the build quality will be. This is not a repackaged EyeTV 500. Will it turn out to be as good as a 500???

500s are getting few-and-far-between these days on eBay. I hope HDHomerun turns out to be at least as successful as EyeTV 500 was.
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post #8 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftaok View Post

The website says that current owners can buy just the HDHomeRun and then contact their support site for a link to the updated software.

I believe it says to contact [email protected] which doesn't sound very promising.
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post #9 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHound View Post

That's not a company I ever heard of. I wonder what the build quality will be.

The HDHomeRun for Linux and Windows has been out for quite sometime now....the unit runs a little warm, but otherwise is built like a tank.
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post #10 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHound View Post

I agree with that statement. Interestingly, according to MacWorld's report the new tuner is made by SiliconeDust. That's not a company I ever heard of. I wonder what the build quality will be. This is not a repackaged EyeTV 500. Will it turn out to be as good as a 500???

THe HDHomeRun has been available for sale since late last year, I bought mine in November, 2006. The company has been excellent in providing firmware updates and getting the hardware to work with a wide range of software packages--I use mine with a Linux based MythTV. I also own an EyeTV 500. I would say they are of comparable build quality, although the HDHomeRun runs noticeably warm while the 500 does not.

On a feature basis the HDHomerun is a superior product: you can share it amongst computers, and with computers of different operating systems, it can be located closer to a rooftop antenna or in some closet, and it has 2 tuners. Despite the warnings, I can watch TV wirelessly over my home's 802.11g network. The 500 doesn't need a power brick or a wired ethernet network to work reliably, and is thus a superior portable solution. As for which is the better receiver of OTA HDTV, I don't know.
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post #11 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

I believe it says to contact [email protected] which doesn't sound very promising.

Just send an e-mail. I think you will be happy with the results. Hint. Hint.
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post #12 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grhowes View Post

Just send an e-mail. I think you will be happy with the results. Hint. Hint.

I'll wait. I have an EyeTV 500 but not a HD Homerun. I was just concerned that the homerun features would be in a different product. Elgato only offers free upgrades with software in the same version, right? If I own version 2 then I get all 2.x upgrades for free, but if the HD Homerun features are in version 3 then I'd have to buy a new copy. I'm not going to quibble with their $30 HDHomeRun premium. I'm more concerned with the reliability of tuning and recording over the network.

Has anyone contacted Elgato to inquire as to when this thing (hardware & software) starts shipping? It seems to be in sort of a late, beta stage from what I've read.
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post #13 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

I believe it says to contact [email protected] which doesn't sound very promising.

Andrew67,

That e-mail link is if you want extra licenses, above the included 2.

Here's a quote from the website:

Quote:


Users who already have an EyeTV tuner on their Mac will be able to use both the local and network tuners through the same EyeTV software

Then over at the HDHomeRun forum, the rep posted this:

Quote:


Mike from Elgato here.

Just wanted everyone to know that EyeTV 2 now supports the HDHomeRun. We sell a bundle with the HDHomeRun and the software, or if you already have the hardware, you can just buy a copy of EyeTV 2. (The shipping version doesn't have the support yet, but once you buy it, just drop a note to support and they'll give you a link to the new version.)

Here's the info:

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_hdhomerun

So it looks like that it will be a free upgrade, if you already own the EyeTV software. 9thTee sells the HDHomeRun for $170, so the $30 premium from ElGato would go to pay for the EyeTV software. Sounds like a pretty good deal.

ft
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post #14 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

Has anyone contacted Elgato to inquire as to when this thing (hardware & software) starts shipping?

It is already shipping.
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post #15 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftaok View Post

This is certainly a step in the right direction, however, it's still lacking some things that I want/need. Cable Card support and NTSC tuner (not all of our cable channels are A/D simulcast).

The universe will grow cold and die before you'll ever see CableCard support for a product like this. CableLabs demands that the entire system, from input to storage to output, be certified and comply with a large number of DRM requirements. That's why you can't buy an aftermarket OCUR device for any platform and why devices like this can't have CableCards. Maybe when the stick in the cable cartel's butt get's the stick out of it's butt you'll have a chance, but my bet is on a cold, dead universe first.
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post #16 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ftaok View Post

This is certainly a step in the right direction, however, it's still lacking some things that I want/need. Cable Card support and NTSC tuner (not all of our cable channels are A/D simulcast).

To follow up on pkscout's reply, NTSC support will be a moot point on Feb 17, 2009. I'm not sure it's worth building products that support it any longer.
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post #17 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

To follow up on pkscout's reply, NTSC support will be a moot point on Feb 17, 2009. I'm not sure it's worth building products that support it any longer.

Isn't analog cable still in NTSC? That date is the deadline for OTA analog only, not cable. So an NTSC tuner could be useful for years and years to come given the rate at which the cable companies change.
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post #18 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkscout View Post

Isn't analog cable still in NTSC? That date is the deadline for OTA analog only, not cable. So an NTSC tuner could be useful for years and years to come given the rate at which the cable companies change.

True, but with more and more channels moving to digital tiers, NTSC is becoming less valuable with cable as well. I imagine things will move forward with cable as OTA channels phase out their analog broadcasts over the next year.
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post #19 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 04:16 PM
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Plus, analog channels take more bandwidth than digital channels. Converting to all digital will allow them to add more channels and charge more for it. Also, switching to all digital means that anyone with an analog tv will have to get a cable box, another revenue stream.

It's in their interests to switch to digital.
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post #20 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 06:07 PM
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I bought an HDHomeRun several months ago and have had some crude success recording shows with it with the "in development" HDHRControl-1-6 software.

I also own two EyeTV 500s and sent an email to Elgato today asking if I can get access to the new EyeTV software that can work with the HDHomeRun.

-Sean
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post #21 of 69 Old 07-24-2007, 06:34 PM
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I downloaded the 2.4.2 update and after re-running the setup from the help menu was immediately able to find the house HDHomerun and scan for channels. I can watch two live streams at once, with the frontmost window playing audio. Two 1080i streams takes up 175% of a MacBook core, so it's lucky they come with two cores. This is over wired Ethernet.

I've never gotten EyeTV to actually download a schedule from TitanTV, but this time I might have motivation to figure out why.
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post #22 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

True, but with more and more channels moving to digital tiers, NTSC is becoming less valuable with cable as well. I imagine things will move forward with cable as OTA channels phase out their analog broadcasts over the next year.

Well, even if the cableco's phase out analog, that still doesn't help me now. Between CableCard and NTSC support, I'd choose CableCard, however, I do fully realize that it will probably never happen.

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post #23 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 05:28 AM
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If only they would release this for the Australian (PAL) market. I'd buy one tomorrow.
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post #24 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1971 View Post

If only they would release this for the Australian (PAL) market. I'd buy one tomorrow.

PAL is SD. This device is digital/HD only.

Doesn't Australia use DVB? There are plenty of DVB devices out there, admittedly, none of them are network tuners like this one.

I would not begrudge the international members (spoken from an American point of view) great devices, but as an American, I've been envying you guys since you have had (up 'til now) all of the great DVR/PVR devices.

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post #25 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grhowes View Post

I've never gotten EyeTV to actually download a schedule from TitanTV, but this time I might have motivation to figure out why.

I've never been able to download it either, so please post tips if you succeed.

So any idea if you can mix/match HD Homerun with EyeTV 500 -- can you record three channels at once??

I am not as excited as many seem to be here, as I find HD Homerun to be an ugly solution compared to the EyeTV 500. Ugly both esthetically (big and with its PC origins written all over it) and in terms of needing a power brick and using Ethernet over Firewire. And with this development, I doubt a native Elgato for clear QAM is coming soon if ever.
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post #26 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post

So any idea if you can mix/match HD Homerun with EyeTV 500 -- can you record three channels at once??

snip...Ugly both esthetically (big and with its PC origins written all over it) and in terms of needing a power brick and using Ethernet over Firewire.

Yes, you can mix local EyeTV tuners (like the 500) with the network tuner, and use any or all of them together. You can also have multiple HDHomeRuns on your network, giving you access to as many tuners as you need.

Regarding size, it is about the same size as the 500, and has the advantage that it doesn't need to be near your computer (just near the antenna/cable and ethernet).
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post #27 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov View Post

I've never been able to download it either, so please post tips if you succeed.

So any idea if you can mix/match HD Homerun with EyeTV 500 -- can you record three channels at once??

I am not as excited as many seem to be here, as I find HD Homerun to be an ugly solution compared to the EyeTV 500. Ugly both esthetically (big and with its PC origins written all over it) and in terms of needing a power brick and using Ethernet over Firewire. And with this development, I doubt a native Elgato for clear QAM is coming soon if ever.

Ted,

I do agree that the HDHomeRun is UGLY. However, the biggest advantage that I see with the HDHomeRun is that it's dual tuner and networkable. The networkable part will allow you to put it next to your router, which may be in a room where aesthetics doens't matter.

Assuming a robust enough network, the HDHR will allow you to record shows on multiple Macs, without needing to connect the coax to the Mac/tuner.

I've read conflicting info about whehter 11g is robust enough to handle the streams. (It should be since HDTV maxes out at 19.2 Mbps and 11g is rated for 54...) If it is, the HDHR would replace the FW cable with 11g.

Overall, I see this as a positive development for the HTMac community.
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post #28 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 07:23 AM
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I am not as excited as many seem to be here, as I find HD Homerun to be an ugly solution compared to the EyeTV 500. Ugly both aesthetically (big and with its PC origins written all over it) and in terms of needing a power brick and using Ethernet over Firewire.

There should be nothing but excitement for this device; frankly, we've had very little to cheer about lately.

Sure, bus-powered and daisychained over firewire is clean and very Mac-like, but you'd have to purchase two 500 devices to equal the dual tuning capability of this device--and remember what the EyeTV500 refurbs were selling for? Most here paid between $199-250 for their first one. This device is a veritable bargain.

It certainly does seem ugly, Ted, but as long as it's on ethernet that means you can stick it anywhere, including out of sight--that's less easy to do with the 500s since you typically can't or don't run firewire that distance. That means (for most of us) our 500s sit out in plain view. Sure, I like their form factor neatly stacked one on top of the other, but I'd just assume not see them and/or not have them dangling off a different Mac.

EyeTV2 and a 500 is nice if you primarily watch your recordings on one display or in one location--and for me dual 500s work perfectly (well, except for that occasional digital audio kernel panic) so I'd never consider going backward to the Series 3 Tivo--but...

the evolution of the software for this device making it easier to network, the multiple user and multiple Mac support, the ability to still use a local 500 with the networked tuners, is also a significant development because it addresses the whole house, with multiple Macs and HDTVs and viewing locations. Nothing but win-win.

Quote:
And with this development, I doubt a native Elgato for clear QAM is coming soon if ever.

They already tried that and for a whole series of reasons, discontinued the product. No one understands QAM, too many returns, Apple support for firewire lagged, the devices were too expensive and but a single tuner anyway, El Gato's strength was always software not hardware, etc. Pick any that might apply. Fortunately we were smart enough buy one or more.

But this device coupled with actual EyeTV support is the best bit of news we've gotten around here in...maybe a year? I won't count the mythical Apple dvdplayer.app improvement, either, until the OS actually ships.

Reconsider the bandwagon before it pulls out.
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post #29 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 07:30 AM
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Before purchasing, try to check what exactly you have for clear QAM channels from your digital cable provider. I used to have all the hi-def network channels and PBS....then my cable company started to scramble them (I don't believe they are supposed to, but cable companies play a lot of games with their customers).
Of course, if you have a lot of over-the-air hi def channels (which the HDHomeRun also tunes) then you have it made.
This is a very good device, and a great concept. Once you have your digital channels on a network, there are all kinds of possibilities for distribution, recording and archiving anywhere in your home.
I see this as a great positive step forward for the mac as a HTPC at least until the far off future when we start seeing Cable Cards enter the main stream.
If you don't like the looks, it's a simple matter of sticking it behind a book or something. The unit is quite small actually.
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post #30 of 69 Old 07-25-2007, 07:57 AM
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I am having trouble with the EyeTV software not decoding all the available QAM channels that I have. Until last night I wasn't sure if the problem was hardware or software, but now I am 100% certain the problem is with they EyeTV software. I am wondering if anyone else has had the same problem and knows of a solution.

I have had two EyeTV 500s for some time. They worked fine until a few months ago when half my channels stopped working. I was at first fearful that the problem was with my cable company.

Then I bought an HDHomeRun (prior to the Elgato announcement) and it WAS ABLE to tune in the missing channels.

Then I bought an HDTV with a QAM tuner and it too was able to tune in the missing channels.

After Elgato's announcement last night I emailed Elgato and was promptly given a link to download the new EyeTV software. I was able to get it to work just fine, but it still can't find the same missing channels.

So, I think that pretty much confirms this is a problem with the Elgato software.

Does anyone have any advice?
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