Cylindrical A-Lens Owner's Thread - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 690 Old 06-17-2017, 07:09 PM
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I decided to pull that little CN made 1.33x A-Lens apart as it never seemed to focus. What I discovered was by flipping the lenses and adding a bit of length to the barrel, that this would focus aa sharp as my own MK5.

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post #662 of 690 Old 07-07-2017, 06:06 AM
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What patterns do you guys use to check the focus of the system?
I found these in the service menu of my BenQ to be really helpful.

One of the most annoying things to me is when text, particularly rolling credits change in focus from bottom to top. The vertical lines pattern is the easiest way to see if there is a problem. Other patterns just help prove over all focus.

NB the projector defaults to native lamp which looks really green and the camera had made those other artifacts visible.
The camera may not be showing true focus of the image.


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post #663 of 690 Old 09-29-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
I feel the same about my cylindrical lens. It is here to stay.

It seems some of the 4K SONYs have a 17:9 imaging chip, but they can be switched back to 16:9 for use with the 1.33x lens. The full 17:9 chip requires a 1.25x lens. I'll be staying with 1080 for a while yet, though I do believe my lens will pass the full detail of UHD when I eventually make the upgrade.

Can someone help me understand this. If all 4K BD content is natively 16:9, then what's the point of a native 17:9 chip. Also, how do you use a 1.25:1 anamorphic lens on this 16:9 content without getting the wrong aspect ratio.? Finally, if I upgrade to a Sony projector with this weird aspect ratio, are there any drawbacks to using a 1.33 anamorphic lens?
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post #664 of 690 Old 09-29-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typecase View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
I feel the same about my cylindrical lens. It is here to stay.

It seems some of the 4K SONYs have a 17:9 imaging chip, but they can be switched back to 16:9 for use with the 1.33x lens. The full 17:9 chip requires a 1.25x lens. I'll be staying with 1080 for a while yet, though I do believe my lens will pass the full detail of UHD when I eventually make the upgrade.

Can someone help me understand this. If all 4K BD content is natively 16:9, then what's the point of a native 17:9 chip. Also, how do you use a 1.25:1 anamorphic lens on this 16:9 content without getting the wrong aspect ratio.? Finally, if I upgrade to a Sony projector with this weird aspect ratio, are there any drawbacks to using a 1.33 anamorphic lens?
I'm too lazy to type it up. If you want to call I'll be happy to explain in detail. PM for number.
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post #665 of 690 Old 09-29-2017, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typecase View Post
Can someone help me understand this. If all 4K BD content is natively 16:9, then what's the point of a native 17:9 chip. Also, how do you use a 1.25:1 anamorphic lens on this 16:9 content without getting the wrong aspect ratio.? Finally, if I upgrade to a Sony projector with this weird aspect ratio, are there any drawbacks to using a 1.33 anamorphic lens?
1K is the same as a bite or 1024, so everytime we have number "XK", it is a multiple of 1024.

2K = 2048
4K = 4096

4 x 3 formats like DVD were based on 720 x 540 and DVD had non square pixels to work with PAL and NTSC.

1080 is twice that of SD or 2x 540.
UHD 2160 is twice that of HD or 2x 1080.

4096 / 2160 = 1.9 not 1.78, so true 2K and 4K systems are 17:9, not 16:9.

16:9 was a compromise that supposed to represent a half way way point between 4 x 3 and Scope. Personally, I think 1.9 or even 2.0 would have been better.

The anamorphic lens allows us to use the full panel. Therefore for systems based on 1.33 like 16:9, a 1.33x lens is needed. in a 2K/4K system, a 1.25x lens is required.

The SONY projectors offer a 16:9 mode, so they back off the panel at the 1.78:1 limits. A 1.33x lens works with these systems. I have done this with one of my lenses and the SONY 520.
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post #666 of 690 Old 09-29-2017, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
1K is the same as a bite or 1024, so everytime we have number "XK", it is a multiple of 1024.

2K = 2048
4K = 4096

4 x 3 formats like DVD were based on 720 x 540 and DVD had non square pixels to work with PAL and NTSC.

1080 is twice that of SD or 2x 540.
UHD 2160 is twice that of HD or 2x 1080.

4096 / 2160 = 1.9 not 1.78, so true 2K and 4K systems are 17:9, not 16:9.

16:9 was a compromise that supposed to represent a half way way point between 4 x 3 and Scope. Personally, I think 1.9 or even 2.0 would have been better.

The anamorphic lens allows us to use the full panel. Therefore for systems based on 1.33 like 16:9, a 1.33x lens is needed. in a 2K/4K system, a 1.25x lens is required.

The SONY projectors offer a 16:9 mode, so they back off the panel at the 1.78:1 limits. A 1.33x lens works with these systems. I have done this with one of my lenses and the SONY 520.

Thank you CAVX. I apologize. I must have not been clear on my query. I understand all of the above. I already have a CIH setup.

What I don't understand is that the inherent ratio of both BD and UHD BD are both 16:9 and content for HDTV, BD and UHD is encoded at ratio of 16:9 (1920x1080 and 3840 × 2160 resolution, respectively), so what's the advantage of using a 17:9 panel except to monkey things up? 16:9 content (HDTV, UHD BD, BD) won't fill the whole panel (I presume it would have black bars on the sides).

I do understand that you can use these projectors in 16:9 mode but there would be these small black bars on the side and presumably black bars and overspill when I horizontally stretch that picture with my anamorphic lens.

Is there an advantage to using a 17:9 panel?

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post #667 of 690 Old 09-29-2017, 08:36 PM
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Thank you CAVX. I apologize. I must have not been clear on my query. I understand all of the above. I have an ISCO III aready.

What I don't understand is that the inherent ratio of both BD and UHD BD are both 16:9 and content encoded at ratio of 16:9 (1920x1080 and 3840 × 2160 resolution, respectively), so what's the advantage of using a 17:9 panel? 16:9 content (HDTV, UHD BD, BD) won't fill the whole panel (I presume black bars on the sides). Is there an advantage to using a 17:9 panel?

I understand that you can use the Sony in 16:9 mode but there would be these black bars on the side and presumably black bars and overspill when I horizontally stretch that picture with my anamorphic lens.
They are encoded at 16:9 yet both formats have a 21:9 option. The studios won't turn it on based on the lack of Ultra Wide TVs.

So we scale. And at 4K, 1:1 mapping is irrelevant.

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post #668 of 690 Old 09-29-2017, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by typecase View Post
Is there an advantage to using a 17:9 panel?
No. This is primarily the DCI standard for commercial cinema projection. As CAVX stated 2048/4096 is commercial 2k/4k. Residential uses 1920/3840 for 2k(1080) and 4k. A 1.25x Lens is used with the DCI Resolution.
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post #669 of 690 Old 09-29-2017, 10:42 PM
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So what happens to the extra bit of image on the left and right on a 16:9 screen? Has anyone used a 1.33 lens like the ISCO III with a DCI 4K projector in 16:9 mode?
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post #670 of 690 Old 09-30-2017, 02:12 AM
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So what happens to the extra bit of image on the left and right on a 16:9 screen? Has anyone used a 1.33 lens like the ISCO III with a DCI 4K projector in 16:9 mode?
I have and it goes unnoticed. The projector blanks that portion out and then it basically gets projected off the screen.

What I did find awesome though was seeing jaggies at 4K with my MK5.

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post #671 of 690 Old 10-03-2017, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
I have and it goes unnoticed. The projector blanks that portion out and then it basically gets projected off the screen.

What I did find awesome though was seeing jaggies at 4K with my MK5.
Is this a problem with the scaling in the Sony?
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post #672 of 690 Old 10-03-2017, 05:19 PM
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Is this a problem with the scaling in the Sony?
Yes and no. The Sony locked up when fed UHD but the OPPO 203 was able to apply VerticalStretch.
The jaggies showed that my lens is truly transparent as it resolved pixel level clarity at true 4k rez. I was impressed.

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post #673 of 690 Old 10-04-2017, 03:07 PM
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Here is the setup with the MK5 and Sony520.

The Sony wants to scale the image to fit the fill 4096 with. This means it generates only 20% black bar and not the normal 25% of the 2160 vertical rez.

Even thought there are a choice of either 1.24x or 1.32x in the set up menu, as soon as it detects a UHD signal, it wants to remap as if zooming was the only option. No stretch. Probably a carry over from the DCI and D-Cinema which all zoom now.

So if you want to use the full 17:9 chip for Scope, you would need the 1.25x version of my lens (which came available last year) but you also need the ability to custom scale as even the OPPO is still based on 1.33x, not 1.25x.

As far as I know, there is just one scaler that can do this and it is about $6K.
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post #674 of 690 Old 11-18-2017, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Just got back from Justice League in new AMC Prime locally. It had a decent sound system but I was shocked to see they went CIH 2.40AR screens. Got a 12 screen SMG opening next month and it will be interesting to see how that’s done.
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post #675 of 690 Old 11-22-2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
Here is the setup with the MK5 and Sony520.

The Sony wants to scale the image to fit the fill 4096 with. This means it generates only 20% black bar and not the normal 25% of the 2160 vertical rez.

Even thought there are a choice of either 1.24x or 1.32x in the set up menu, as soon as it detects a UHD signal, it wants to remap as if zooming was the only option. No stretch. Probably a carry over from the DCI and D-Cinema which all zoom now.

So if you want to use the full 17:9 chip for Scope, you would need the 1.25x version of my lens (which came available last year) but you also need the ability to custom scale as even the OPPO is still based on 1.33x, not 1.25x.

As far as I know, there is just one scaler that can do this and it is about $6K.
Is this $6K scaler lumagen radiance pro ?
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post #676 of 690 Old 11-23-2017, 03:19 AM
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Is this $6K scaler lumagen radiance pro ?
I think so.

You would like to think other manufacturers could also create HDMI 2.0 with HDR and WCG support for less than $6k .

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post #677 of 690 Old 11-27-2017, 07:33 AM
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Here is the setup with the MK5 and Sony520.

The Sony wants to scale the image to fit the fill 4096 with. This means it generates only 20% black bar and not the normal 25% of the 2160 vertical rez.

Even thought there are a choice of either 1.24x or 1.32x in the set up menu, as soon as it detects a UHD signal, it wants to remap as if zooming was the only option. No stretch. Probably a carry over from the DCI and D-Cinema which all zoom now.

So if you want to use the full 17:9 chip for Scope, you would need the 1.25x version of my lens (which came available last year) but you also need the ability to custom scale as even the OPPO is still based on 1.33x, not 1.25x.

As far as I know, there is just one scaler that can do this and it is about $6K.

So, if you feed regular 16:9 content (UHD or not) to the Sony running in 1.24x mode, then what you are saying is that the Sony re-scales it to use only a 16:9 portion of the 17:9 panel (as if it were in 1.32x mode)? Is there any downside to the image/aspect ratio, other than just not using the full 4k capability of the panel?

Any idea if this is how the VW885 also handles a 16:9 signal in 1.24x mode? Anyone have experience with how the VW5000 handles?

I wonder if Sony or Oppo could put in a custom scaling from 16:9 to 17:9... avoiding need for a $6k Lumagen.
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post #678 of 690 Old 11-27-2017, 02:12 PM
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So, if you feed regular 16:9 content (UHD or not) to the Sony running in 1.24x mode, then what you are saying is that the Sony re-scales it to use only a 16:9 portion of the 17:9 panel (as if it were in 1.32x mode)? Is there any downside to the image/aspect ratio, other than just not using the full 4k capability of the panel?

Any idea if this is how the VW885 also handles a 16:9 signal in 1.24x mode? Anyone have experience with how the VW5000 handles?

I wonder if Sony or Oppo could put in a custom scaling from 16:9 to 17:9... avoiding need for a $6k Lumagen.
I didn't get to test the 1.24x mode as I didn't have those optics on hand on the day. The MK5 lens in the image is using 1.33x optics, so we used the 1.32x option on the SONY.

Yes when fed BD or any source that was not UHD, not a problem. The display just locked up to full 17:9 mode as soon as it detected UHD. In retrospect, was this due to HDR flags? Given that players like OPPO can strip away this metadata, does that change anything? Not sure. This is not my gear, so I can't just go in and play.

The OPPO was able to vertically stretch the UHD content we had on hand on the day. There was a time when it could not do this with JAVA BD, so I am not sure if OPPO has been able to FW fix this or if UHD simply doesn't use JAVA.

OPPO has done great work recently with the introduction of Fixed and Moveable Lens options on their 203/205 UHD players.

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post #679 of 690 Old 12-22-2017, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Added link to AB’s lens setup to front page.
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post #680 of 690 Old 04-03-2018, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you guys use to clean your lens? Keep dust attraction down?

Took some time to align my projector then the lens and found both were needed. Aligned the light path through the center of all lenses. It made a noticeable difference with uniform sharpness side to side, top to bottom.



With HDR and WCG the thing that stands out too me is how real fire and explosions, streetlights and headlights at night look and clouds and skyscape colors during different times of day.









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post #681 of 690 Old 04-05-2018, 05:38 AM
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What do you guys use to clean your lens? Keep dust attraction down?
My lens doesn't attract any dust. But when I do clean them I use a specific cleaner. Google "Formula MC". I use that and their wipes. Aussie bob uses pure acetone on his, which always scared me LOL. Isco recommended the Formula MC to me many years ago.
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post #682 of 690 Old 04-05-2018, 06:47 AM
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What do you guys use to clean your lens? Keep dust attraction down?

Took some time to align my projector then the lens and found both were needed. Aligned the light path through the center of all lenses. It made a noticeable difference with uniform sharpness side to side, top to bottom.



With HDR and WCG the thing that stands out too me is how real fire and explosions, streetlights and headlights at night look and clouds and skyscape colors during different times of day.









I've never really cleaned my lens. I've just observed it looks quite clean unless my eyes are deceiving me.

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Has there ever been a pdf file with the installation instructions/recommendations for the ISCOs? Google has failed me to find anything.
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post #684 of 690 Old 04-05-2018, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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My lens doesn't attract any dust. But when I do clean them I use a specific cleaner. Google "Formula MC". I use that and their wipes. Aussie bob uses pure acetone on his, which always scared me LOL. Isco recommended the Formula MC to me many years ago.
Got their kit ordered. Thanks.
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post #685 of 690 Old 09-07-2018, 12:52 PM
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Guys,

Is there a fixed mount for these lens for PJ mounted on ceiling? Also, there are several versions of Cine Digitar 1.33x lens it seems e.g. M, MF, XL - Are they just different in size? How do you choose the right one? Is there an individual PJ compatibility list for different lenses?

Thanks

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post #686 of 690 Old 09-09-2018, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
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My lens doesn't attract any dust. But when I do clean them I use a specific cleaner. Google "Formula MC". I use that and their wipes. Aussie bob uses pure acetone on his, which always scared me LOL. Isco recommended the Formula MC to me many years ago.
Formula MC did not work for me. Streaked and smeared. dries instantly upon touching the lens, even cold, so there is no chance to use a one wipe technique.
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post #687 of 690 Old 07-02-2019, 04:28 PM
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OMFG!!! Whoever picked up this ISCO DLP Cinema 1.25x anamorphic lens for only $2075 I HATE you so much right now!!!! Congrats!!!
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post #688 of 690 Old 07-22-2019, 04:27 PM
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OMFG!!! Whoever picked up this ISCO DLP Cinema 1.25x anamorphic lens for only $2075 I HATE you so much right now!!!! Congrats!!!
Awesome if he has a 17:9 (true 4096 X 2160). If he does not, and is wanting to use this lens with a 16:9 (3840 X 2160), he will be disappointed.

Still using and loving my cylindrical by the way.

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post #689 of 690 Old 07-22-2019, 06:30 PM
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Awesome if he has a 17:9 (true 4096 X 2160). If he does not, and is wanting to use this lens with a 16:9 (3840 X 2160), he will be disappointed.

Still using and loving my cylindrical by the way.

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I really wanted it for my RS3000 but I knew that if I won the auction I would need to get a CineSlide and I could not get that expenditure past the Mrs...so I will be happy with my IIIL and just keep it at 16:9 mode.
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post #690 of 690 Old 07-22-2019, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
I really wanted it for my RS3000 but I knew that if I won the auction I would need to get a CineSlide and I could not get that expenditure past the Mrs...so I will be happy with my IIIL and just keep it at 16:9 mode.
Much better idea i think! Im using a cineslide with my Isco IIIL lens and the NX9, the results are fantastic, I dont care about not using the full panel. Upscaling everything to 4K with madvr is the icing on the cake! 145" curved scope Stewart microperf Studio Tec 130 screen with automated masking the system is perfection. I will never let this lens go.
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Murray Thompson
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CinemascopE Home Cinema Build & 2014 rebuild, plus new LED ceiling install Christmas 2018
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