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post #1 of 16 Old 09-14-2014, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Worth Doing Electric 16/9 and 2.35 ??

Building new theater. Forced to use a drop down electric screen. Have it narrowed down to seymour av retractable 16/9 (probably 137 diagonal). Can not find any affordable horizontal masking systems. So when I watch scope I will have black bars top and bottom. Don't want to have small 16/9 screen. Thinking I can do a 16/9 retractable and maybe a 2.35 retractable in front of that. Projector will have lens shift memory and focus memory. I could drop scope screen down and watch scope movies and drop 16/9 down to watch those movies. This avoids any masking situations. and also allows me to have a large 16/9 area. Don't plan on doing anamorphic lens.

I like the idea of anamorphic lens and scope screen, but hate to have a small 16/9.

Is this stupid? am I missing something? any thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks
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post #2 of 16 Old 09-14-2014, 04:19 PM
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I am thinking of doing the same thing so it can't be a stupid idea. Great minds think alike

I already have a 16:9 screen and want to add a 2:35 using the zoom method. For 16:9 there will be no black bars. For 2:35 the black bars will be zoomed off the top and bottom of the screen so the question I have now is how tolerable will that be and if I hate it, how am I going to mask it?

I am thinking of getting the Panasonic PT-AE8000 due to the lens memory feature. What projectors are you considering?
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post #3 of 16 Old 09-14-2014, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I am thinking of doing the same thing so it can't be a stupid idea. Great minds think alike

I already have a 16:9 screen and want to add a 2:35 using the zoom method. For 16:9 there will be no black bars. For 2:35 the black bars will be zoomed off the top and bottom of the screen so the question I have now is how tolerable will that be and if I hate it, how am I going to mask it?

I am thinking of getting the Panasonic PT-AE8000 due to the lens memory feature. What projectors are you considering?
Considering new.epson ls10000 or maybe 6030. Was.going to do 6030 but waiting now that ceria is.over. how big are.you.going?
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post #4 of 16 Old 09-14-2014, 08:14 PM
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My 16:9 is 106" Diagonal (92" W x 52"H).
Max width I can go is 120" Wide. For 2:35 that is is 51"H and 130" Diagonal.
That will be better than a 2:40 screen because it gives me 1 extra inch in height.
14 ft viewing distance.

I will buy a projector first so I can play with the zooming effect
I need to look at the 6030 now that you mentioned it
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post #5 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 09:08 AM
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The simpler and cheaper route would be to purchase 1 scope screen that is height maximized. As long as the black floor on the projector is fairly low the pillarboxing will not be very objectionable. Side masking can easily be attached if this is an issue. You certainly can go the 2 screen route, it's just more expensive and complex.

The Epson 6030 has a manual zoom/shift lens. This will make it difficult to use in a CIH setup without an anamorphic lens (though not impossible). The Panasonic with it's motorized lens memory function would make it very easy to use in this sort of setup.

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post #6 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
The simpler and cheaper route would be to purchase 1 scope screen that is height maximized. As long as the black floor on the projector is fairly low the pillarboxing will not be very objectionable. Side masking can easily be attached if this is an issue. You certainly can go the 2 screen route, it's just more expensive and complex.

The Epson 6030 has a manual zoom/shift lens. This will make it difficult to use in a CIH setup without an anamorphic lens (though not impossible). The Panasonic with it's motorized lens memory function would make it very easy to use in this sort of setup.
I am in the middle of talking with seymour av now. I was thinking the following:

They have option of having housing for retractable motorized screen covered in some from of duvatene (black absorbing material). at this point if I can somehow control motor and time it so screen doesn't drop all the way, I should be able to have my 2.35 with spill going on lower blackout and upper spill going on black covered housing. By dropping screen all the way I can have 16:9.

Just trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong here. Seems like it solves the masking issue and gives me both aspects (or technically almost any aspect except 4:3)

Projector should have multiple zoom/focus memories so that solves that part.

No need for two screens this way.

Thoughts????
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post #7 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpete12 View Post
They have option of having housing for retractable motorized screen covered in some from of duvatene (black absorbing material). at this point if I can somehow control motor and time it so screen doesn't drop all the way, I should be able to have my 2.35 with spill going on lower blackout and upper spill going on black covered housing. By dropping screen all the way I can have 16:9.
Will the lens memory also allow for a change in lens shift? Lowering the screen "enough" for 2.35 is a good idea, but will require the projector to adjust "up" so the upper letterbox is projected above the screen location. Meaning, the center point of the screen moves up in that case...

Jeff

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post #8 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpete12 View Post
I am in the middle of talking with seymour av now. I was thinking the following:

They have option of having housing for retractable motorized screen covered in some from of duvatene (black absorbing material). at this point if I can somehow control motor and time it so screen doesn't drop all the way, I should be able to have my 2.35 with spill going on lower blackout and upper spill going on black covered housing. By dropping screen all the way I can have 16:9.

Just trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong here. Seems like it solves the masking issue and gives me both aspects (or technically almost any aspect except 4:3)

Projector should have multiple zoom/focus memories so that solves that part.

No need for two screens this way.

Thoughts????
That would be a constant image width setup. With Scope films being significantly smaller than HD TV/1.85:1 films. If that fits your overall goals, not a bad direction. The idea behind constant image height and using a scope screen is to have scope films be the largest presentation, just like it is in the vast majority of cinemas. Also a correctly sized CIH system (one maximized for height) will not sacrifice picture size for other content either.

Everyone's tastes are different. Personally I find a scope setup to be a huge improvement.

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post #9 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Will the lens memory also allow for a change in lens shift? Lowering the screen "enough" for 2.35 is a good idea, but will require the projector to adjust "up" so the upper letterbox is projected above the screen location. Meaning, the center point of the screen moves up in that case...

Jeff
Lens memory systems do automate shift as well as focus and zoom.

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post #10 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Lens memory systems do automate shift as well as focus and zoom.
Thanks - I knew some did, but wasn't certain that was universally true...

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post #11 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Also a correctly sized CIH system (one maximized for height) will not sacrifice picture size for other content either.
What I don't understand about this statement is how you can have the same size for other content. Lets say I go with a 10 foot wide 2.35 screen ( I just picked 10 feet randomly). Then when I watch 16:9 I am significantly reduced in size keeping the same height.

If I go with my idea than I can have a 10 foot wide 2.35 and a 10 foot wide 16:9. I do realized that the center of the screen will have to go up when switching from 16:9 to 2.35. How much I don't know and will have to look into the math to make sure projector zoom/adjustment can accomplish this.

Do you think the 2.35 will look akward and way too high from where it would be if I did a regular 2.35 screen?

Thanks
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post #12 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpete12 View Post
What I don't understand about this statement is how you can have the same size for other content. Lets say I go with a 10 foot wide 2.35 screen ( I just picked 10 feet randomly). Then when I watch 16:9 I am significantly reduced in size keeping the same height.

If I go with my idea than I can have a 10 foot wide 2.35 and a 10 foot wide 16:9. I do realized that the center of the screen will have to go up when switching from 16:9 to 2.35. How much I don't know and will have to look into the math to make sure projector zoom/adjustment can accomplish this.

Do you think the 2.35 will look akward and way too high from where it would be if I did a regular 2.35 screen?

Thanks
Maybe this will help you understand. Let's use my 130" scope screen for the sake of argument. The current screen is 51" tall and that is as tall as I can really go in my room. So I have maximized the screen height for the allotted space. So when I watch an HD program on this screen it is taking up a 91x51 piece of the screen. Which is the exact same area it would be taking up if I had a 104" 16:9 screen instead. So here's the math:

16:9 picture area of 130" 2.35:1 screen (91"x51") = 32.3 sq/ft
104" 16:9 screen (91"x51") = 32.3 sq/ft

So as you can see I lose no active screen area or impact when watching 16:9 material because the screen is as tall is it can be. The same math holds true for 4:3/1.37 material.

Now let look at the active screen area if I had a CIW setup instead using the same 104" 16:9 screen example.

104" 16:9 screen showing 16:9 content = 32.3 sq/ft
104" 16:9 screen showing 2.35:1 content (91"x39") = 24.7 sq/ft

This is what the majority of setups see and what you are proposing by moving the 16:9 screen up. Scope content is smaller.

So what happens with a scope screen showing scope content? This:

130" 2.35:1 (120" x 51") screen showing a scope (2.35:1 film) = 42.5 sq/ft

As you can see the scope screen showing scope content is a massive increase in screen area. Almost doubled. Again, the key here is the screen height. If you have maximized this, there is zero degradation of other content shown.

As far as the picture height goes on your proposal to lower the screen partway, that would depend on how far down the screen housing is. I suspect it would be distracting if the screen housing is not far from the ceiling. Projector wise the amount of lens shift and whether or not the project will stack the black bars will factor into whether it works.
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-15-2014, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. That really helped. I guess I was looking at it the wrong way. If I went my way then the 2.35 screen wouldn't be as wide as I could go. It would be the width of the 16:9.

I am going to get projector and make a cheap screen just to approximate size I can go and what it will look like. I guess it does make sense to,go scope with side masking for 16:9

I can seem to justify a panamorphic lense yet but I can always add that later. Supposedly it only makes it brighter as all pixels are projecting but that is thru interpolation as the actual resolution is set on the bluray at something x 800

I love. Avs. Saves me alot of stupid learning lessons
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-23-2014, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpete12 View Post
Building new theater. Forced to use a drop down electric screen. Have it narrowed down to seymour av retractable 16/9 (probably 137 diagonal). Can not find any affordable horizontal masking systems. So when I watch scope I will have black bars top and bottom. Don't want to have small 16/9 screen. Thinking I can do a 16/9 retractable and maybe a 2.35 retractable in front of that. Projector will have lens shift memory and focus memory. I could drop scope screen down and watch scope movies and drop 16/9 down to watch those movies. This avoids any masking situations. and also allows me to have a large 16/9 area. Don't plan on doing anamorphic lens.

I like the idea of anamorphic lens and scope screen, but hate to have a small 16/9.

Is this stupid? am I missing something? any thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks
What about an Elite Osprey dual format electric screen, it gives you both a 2.35:1 screen and a 16.9 screen in one unit:


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post #15 of 16 Old 09-24-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drpete12 View Post
Building new theater. Forced to use a drop down electric screen. Have it narrowed down to seymour av retractable 16/9 (probably 137 diagonal). Can not find any affordable horizontal masking systems. So when I watch scope I will have black bars top and bottom. Don't want to have small 16/9 screen. Thinking I can do a 16/9 retractable and maybe a 2.35 retractable in front of that. Projector will have lens shift memory and focus memory. I could drop scope screen down and watch scope movies and drop 16/9 down to watch those movies. This avoids any masking situations. and also allows me to have a large 16/9 area. Don't plan on doing anamorphic lens.

I like the idea of anamorphic lens and scope screen, but hate to have a small 16/9.

Is this stupid? am I missing something? any thoughts would be appreciated

Thanks

I've been using 2 screens for years. Works great. Call me or email me if you want to pick my brain for ideas.





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post #16 of 16 Old 09-25-2014, 10:21 AM
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I'm thinking of doing this as well. I've seen the Osprey screen with the masking, but I haven't heard good things about Elite screens overall, so I'm not sure. Plus 2 screens may be cheaper.

I have the AE8000 on a DIY 100" scope screen now that works great, but when I move soon I'll be forced to get a electric screen. Any reviews on the Osprey screen?

My HT:

- Panasonic AE8000 projector - 115" 2.35 pulldown screen - Denon AVR x2000 - Polk Monitor 70s & 30s
- Polk CS2 Center - Dayton 12" Sub - HTPC w/ Kodi - Xbox One - Panny BDT110 BD Player - Harmony One remote
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