What do you use for your CIH screen: an anamorphic lens or zoom method? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: How do you display CinemaScope content on your CIH screen?
Anamorphic lens 60 33.15%
Zoom method 103 56.91%
Anamorphic lens, but will start using the zoom method 6 3.31%
Zoom method, but will start using an anamorphic lens 12 6.63%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 109 Old 05-10-2016, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
One thing to point out, unless you are going to crop the other AR's to scope, you'll only be using the lens for scope. I know that's inferred, just wanted to make sure folks reading this understood that.
I don't wanna hear about other AR's. They can go find their own forum. This is the 2.35. We only except 2.35 and above.
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post #32 of 109 Old 05-14-2016, 11:09 AM
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Never considered an anamorhic lenses but I can't even tell the resolution difference when zoomed out vs the original with eshift engaged. I do notice a loss of brightness though but I have some room to spare.

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post #33 of 109 Old 09-06-2016, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrda View Post
I don't wanna hear about other AR's. They can go find their own forum. This is the 2.35. We only except 2.35 and above.
Another Anamoprhic Lens user here.

All ARs are the same height on my system until they go beyond the max AR of 2.37:1. So I don't mind smaller ARs so long as they are the same height as everything else.

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post #34 of 109 Old 09-08-2016, 02:17 PM
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I went from a JVC X35 plus Isco II lens to an X500 and zooming.

I compared them side by side, both fully calibrated (using a Lumagen 2041), same peak white, etc. I only gained 1% brightness using the lens (since I'm at absolute minimum zoom in the projector I gain brightness just coming off the end stops). I think the brightness gain can sometimes be overstated, especially since the ideal set up with a lens is to have minimum zoom on the projector for least pincushion and to avoid vignetting.

In my case the e-shift feature covers the pixel density/visibility side and a dark surround to the screen covers black bar overspill.

Of course I have lens memory on the X500, but also scaling in my Lumagen so I can do an instant 'shrink' for 16:9 menus and trailers once I've already zoomed to 2.35:1. I have other aspects covered with the lens memory so I can watch without scaling on those.

I just don't get any benefit in my set up using a lens now (though I did prefer it over zooming an older JVC HD350 that I had when I first bought the Isco). It took quite a while to sell as well, so I think I may have timed it right.

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post #35 of 109 Old 09-08-2016, 06:19 PM
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I prefer instant AR changes.

The last time I played with a JVC, it seemed to go through all the steps I had used to set up the Scope mode, rather than just zooming in and adjusting the lens shift.

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post #36 of 109 Old 09-09-2016, 07:41 AM
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No zoom no lens

Over the last couple days, I have been using my PC running VLC media player with a black skin made by a 3rd party called darkvoodoo it is a skin that allows resizing the image without a frame around it. I set my PC up with the desk top being 0,0,0 black and the projector being a continuation of my desk top with nothing on it except the VLC. Set the zoom to Imax and can do CIH with just a click and drag of the mouse. No remote control required it is all controlled with the mouse. And no masking required as the 0,0,0 of the desk top blends perfect with the 0,0,0 of darkvoodoo skin.

I wrote more about the idea on my PIA thread.

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post #37 of 109 Old 09-09-2016, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
I prefer instant AR changes.

The last time I played with a JVC, it seemed to go through all the steps I had used to set up the Scope mode, rather than just zooming in and adjusting the lens shift.
That’s why I use the Lumagen to scale 16:9 menus and trailers after zooming to 2.35:1. It’s instant (quicker than moving a lens for that matter, especially my Isco II which wasn’t really designed for CIH anyway).

Since most of my viewing is 2.35:1 then I don’t need to use the JVC lens memory very often, but I find it works well when I do. Certainly doesn’t make me want to get another lens just so I can scale 16:9 content at the push of a button, when I can do that already.

If I’m watching a whole 1.85:1 film then I use the lens memory once at the start of viewing and switch to another Lumagen memory which has 1:1 pixel mapping and a separate calibration to account for the differences. Later this year I will have side masking sorted out too, so I can enjoy the same crisp black borders that I have with 2.35:1 content.
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post #38 of 109 Old 09-18-2016, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
No zoom no lens

Over the last couple days, I have been using my PC running VLC media player with a black skin made by a 3rd party called darkvoodoo it is a skin that allows resizing the image without a frame around it. I set my PC up with the desk top being 0,0,0 black and the projector being a continuation of my desk top with nothing on it except the VLC. Set the zoom to Imax and can do CIH with just a click and drag of the mouse. No remote control required it is all controlled with the mouse. And no masking required as the 0,0,0 of the desk top blends perfect with the 0,0,0 of darkvoodoo skin.

I wrote more about the idea on my PIA thread.
I started using HTPC back in 2000, and that worked really well with CIH. I ended up with Zoomplayer and that would automatically scale etc with my A lens so all I had to do was select the movie from the hard drive, and Zoomplayer would do the rest. Perfect

I'll probably end up doing the same thing with my new set up. I just love the flexibility and server ability a PC gives.
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post #39 of 109 Old 09-18-2016, 04:36 AM
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Gary; if you end up with a 4K UHD playing PC then I'll be pestering you for help. My last HTPC drove me mad with updates messing up all my careful settings at regular intervals, hopefully things have improved since then...

(I'll still zoom though ).

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post #40 of 109 Old 09-18-2016, 05:36 AM
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I found that in the early days it did need a bit of tweaking etc and could have the problems you mention, but as the years went on and PCs were becoming more video/music oriented, those problems became less and less. Maybe I had a bit more luck and/or a bit more patience as I enjoyed getting it how I wanted and I don't remember it being that problematic.

I'll probably end up zooming too (with 4k), but I do like the flexibility an HTPC can give. To start with, I'll probably go with MadVR upscaled BD before going to UHD. Looking at some of the madvr pics, there's not a lot in it, especially with fauK.

If the UHD Oppo is only $500, that may be £500 which would be a nice surprise, and probably cheaper than building a 4k HTPC, so that might be a better route for 4k and keep the HTPC for BD
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post #41 of 109 Old 09-18-2016, 06:26 AM
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My issues were mostly related to me using a Satellite card so I could watch the early BBC HD broadcasts and record various films to hard drive in HD (since at that time I only had a DVD player and the format wars were still raging).

Between that card/it's related software and graphics card drivers if I installed any updates it would mess up the settings and I'd either get no picture or some other weird effect until I rebuilt the PC again and then only install the working updates. In the end I used a hard drive cloning software as it was quicker than a windows reinstall, but it got old fairly quickly (plus BBC HD started repeating the same films over and over).

I think MadVR looks interesting and it's fans claim it is equal or better than a Lumagen (but then when something is free I have to question if it's just a price thing). I'd probably keep a BluRay player in the rack though just to make things easier for the rest of the family, but I could get a HTPC working without all the hassle of the past then it would be good just as a source for the projector.

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post #42 of 109 Old 09-18-2016, 08:52 PM
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I have to say that when I use my A-Lens with my Epson LS10000 and Jriver(using madVR) to vertically stretch the content on my HTPC, zooming just doesn’t compare . I can see a very distinguishable difference (even my wife can). However, I am not sure if this is because of how madVR vertically stretchs the content.
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post #43 of 109 Old 09-19-2016, 10:45 AM
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My impression is that MadVR can definitely (up)scale content with superior results (albeit much more computationally expensive, e.g. supersampling) but of course it only works on select content being played via your PC. As I have a Radiance 2143 my plan is to utilize it for most of my scaling needs from Bluray, TiVO, etc., but to also have my HTPC with MadVR for the superior results when watching select content.
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post #44 of 109 Old 09-22-2016, 09:58 AM
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JVC DLA-RS20 with a Panamorph, PS100U vertical stretch lens. In place at all times. I got the lens for free. Works like a champ! The main advantage with this setup (for me) is the ability to turn letterboxed 4:3 material, into a 'native' 16:9. This works incredible for the original STAR WARS LASERDISCS, which is my only go-to when seeing the original trilogy. I don't worry about pixels, brightness, rez, like I used to...It looks GREAT

PS..I rounded about 6,000 hours so far on my JVC
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post #45 of 109 Old 09-22-2016, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post
Gary; if you end up with a 4K UHD playing PC then I'll be pestering you for help. My last HTPC drove me mad with updates messing up all my careful settings at regular intervals, hopefully things have improved since then...

(I'll still zoom though ).
I'm glad I was not the only one who suffered through this. The idea of using a PC was awesome in theory, but a PITA in real life. You'd sort out the bugs and everything worked for a few days, then another update and suddenly, no sound or something dumb, not to mention the math needed to work out all the different ARs.

Stand alone players don't have the control, but are much less of headache. I often describe the OPPO as a PC in a box solution that just works.

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post #46 of 109 Old 12-24-2016, 04:32 AM
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Great thread, and right on topic for my current situation.

Already have a Panamorph UH480 complete with motorized sled, used for the last 9 years with a Panasonic ae2000 (which, to my knowledge, didn't do zooming) and a Carada 128" 2.35.

Recently picked up an Epson 5040 that does zooming

There will be extra expense (hopefully only labor, assuming the Panamorph adapter plate will work) to put the A lens/transport back up. (Oppo BD203 will do the vertical stretch.)

The primary use is movies - and more 2.35 than not.

To be honest, I'm not as concerned with the change in picture quality as I am with how the black bars will look when projected onto the spaces above and below the screen. Whether dark curtains or flat black walls, I want those spaces to be as dark as the (non-zoomed) light falloff will allow.

So, do I bother? Or just sell the Panamorph setup?

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post #47 of 109 Old 12-24-2016, 09:05 AM
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My take is that you should absolutely use the lens. Not for the typical reasons posted here but rather because of sensitivity of black level. I've had my 203 for a week know and between having some of the issues and prioritizing watching the stack of UHDBR's I have , I haven't had time to calibrate or do much comparison. Even with having a non HDR projector, it's the black levels that stand out as what needs to be improved. Any component lighting has a far greater effect hitting the screen than I ever noticed with bluray. With bluray I've needed the lamp in high for awhile and it's always been about the need for more light. With UHD low is the preferred setting and it seems brighter. I don't know if it's because the DR is converted from a higher source having better blacks or if some of that DR sneaks through in the HDR/SDR process. With almost all of these movies I've watched, I prefer low lamp. The other thing is the letterbox is bothersome. I have a 2.37 curved screen so it's always been of no consequence having the slightest LB with. Little more with 1.85 movies. Never bothered me before but it does now and so I overscan. This is subjective as I haven't done much comparison testing but something to think about with the gear you have.
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post #48 of 109 Old 12-24-2016, 12:16 PM
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Thanks! Much appreciated.
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post #49 of 109 Old 01-03-2017, 08:40 AM
 
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I've been using a Prismasonic lens (sp?) since 07 and have never looked back.
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post #50 of 109 Old 01-07-2017, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post
I've been using a Prismasonic lens (sp?) since 07 and have never looked back.
How do you know it's still there then?

I've just gone 2.40:1 fixed AT screen since my earlier post and I'm loving it zoomed. I'm currently getting light spill on the wall below the screen, but this is currently only painted with a base coat of white ready for wallpaper (and eventually a black velvet covered fold down 'flap').

I've gone from drop down non AT 16:9, to drop down non AT 2.35:1, with lens and then without once I went e-shift with my X500, now to AT 2.40:1 and IMHO this is the best I've had and the room isn't even properly finished yet.

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post #51 of 109 Old 01-26-2017, 02:35 AM
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I recently obtained a 2.35:1 screen.

I use a 1080p projector (Sony HW45ES) ... so I have no FauxK or supersampling or stuff like that.

The ONLY souce component is a HTPC.

I send 1080p but use a 1920x812 space within that fits the 2:35 screen. (MadVR is set to mask to this and keep content within)

no lens.

I bought Velvet to absorb the light spill .

MadVR puts everything in the screen with the proper AR and no overscan.


-Brian

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post #52 of 109 Old 01-26-2017, 12:25 PM
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I love my UH480 lens and curved screen. I'm keeping it even when I upgrade to a 4k pj. It's just so easy to switch ARs. I find it so clear I don't even bother moving the lens out of place. Maybe that will change with 4k. Guess I'll see.
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post #53 of 109 Old 02-04-2017, 09:55 PM
 
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Can't change my poll answer but I just moved from a 40ES and lens to zoom method on a JVC. While it seems a bit Jethro when the menus etc extend past the screen I don't care when the movie starts. No quality difference in my theater as I have brightness overhead to spare. I prefer zoom to the lens. Best thing is perfect geometry with my 130 inch screen and 15 foot throw.
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post #54 of 109 Old 02-05-2017, 04:31 AM
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I have a very small home theater and with my short throw range I could get a nice sized 16:9 picture, but the size of a 2.35:1 picture was to small for my liking. I ended up getting a 2.35:1 screen and I´m using an Isco IIIL to get to the scope size I wanted. Image width for scope is just under eye to screen distance, and the whole thing is just great. Having CIH without compromising on either 16:9 or 2.25:1 with my short throw distance would not have been possible without lens.

I know that my situation is special, but I think that for some installations an anamorphic lens is still a great solution. I agree that is isn´t cheap (I had to upgrade from Prismasonic (older prism version) to Isco IIIL in my setup before I was happy), but it gives unique possibilities. I know there are short throw projectors or lens upgrades that could have been used in my situation, but that seriously limits the number of available projectors. With my current solution I can pick what ever projector I want, the lens and screen will still be the same.

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post #55 of 109 Old 02-11-2017, 07:47 PM
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For those using the zoom method, do you re-focus your projector after zooming?
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post #56 of 109 Old 02-13-2017, 03:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
For those using the zoom method, do you re-focus your projector after zooming?
I guess you could say I use the zoom method but after zooming I'm done. I fit everything else into the 2.35 space.

So, ... yeah,.. I did adjust the focus after. I don't think anyone uses a projector for long without adjusting the focus.
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post #57 of 109 Old 02-13-2017, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
For those using the zoom method, do you re-focus your projector after zooming?
Projectors with lens memory, like my JVC, zoom and refocus for you when switching ARs.

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post #58 of 109 Old 02-13-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
Projectors with lens memory, like my JVC, zoom and refocus for you when switching ARs.
Yeah, but how accurate is it? When I use lens memory on my Sharp projector, the zoom, image shift and focus are all "ballpark" adjustments. You can do it 5 times in a row and get 5 different results. I have to manually fine-tune all of them every time I use a lens present.
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post #59 of 109 Old 02-13-2017, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
For those using the zoom method, do you re-focus your projector after zooming?
No. I have not been able to notice the necessity for re-focusing either from viewing focus patterns up close or from watching movie content. So I do not include re-focusing in my zoom memories. (I figure there's probably more chance of variability over time by asking the mechanism to re-focus constantly, than there would be leaving the focus alone).
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post #60 of 109 Old 02-13-2017, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Yeah, but how accurate is it? When I use lens memory on my Sharp projector, the zoom, image shift and focus are all "ballpark" adjustments. You can do it 5 times in a row and get 5 different results. I have to manually fine-tune all of them every time I use a lens present.
The focus is very accurate. I've checked it periodically and haven't had to readjust. The shift on the other had needs a tick or two to recenter periodically. Though it's a very small variance. Not something you would notice without the grid being up.

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