PIA setup (personal image area) with sub sets of CIH, CIW, CIA - Page 11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 82Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #301 of 311 Old 07-03-2019, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,829
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2129 Post(s)
Liked: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanoodhaliwal View Post
Thanks for your reply bud.
Yeah I will be using AT screen
Masking would be manual panels if done.

My basement is not finished yet and will setup projector in one of the bedroom for now, so true screen size can not be determined. So, you are saying go with 16:9 aspect ratio ?
That would be my choice with the number of IMAX AR switching movies there are and the upcoming IMAX enhanced releases coming out. Not to mention many sporting events that are in 16:9 play pretty well IMAXed as they use the top and bottom of the screen for graphics. Then there is the streaming content Josh Z has been chronicling that is TV but in ARs like 2.00:1 and could benefit having screen space for the extra height to be projected to.

Having a 16:9 screen does not mean everything should be played as large possible. It only is there for content that deserves it. I would suggest in your planning phase experimenting with screen sizes and seating distance you play Dunkirk and Aquaman maybe The Dark Knight. As the changing between Scope and IMAX can be thought about in the same movie. View them as IMAX immersion and then how they would be framed down if fit into a scope AR screen. Some people also crop them using the blanking feature some projectors have and you could try that and see if the IMAX experience is something you could give up for the convenience of a scope screen.

Your room is not lacking height as some people have that forces them in the direction of a scope screen.

I don’t know if you watch old classics Academy AR movies but if you do play something like The Wizard of OZ (original) or Citizen Kane and you can compare them fit into scope framing or allowed to be taller with a 16:9 window.

As you can see there isn’t an easy answer rather a path you can follow to determine what works best for you. As an example we watched an early Robin Williams film Seize the Day (1986) the other day. It was filmed in 1.33:1 on 35mm and the transfer to digital along with it coming from a streaming site left a lot to be desired in PQ. I would have loved to play it as CIH immersion level but the quality was not there. So I zoomed it down so in effect it was like we were sitting in the back third of a theater instead of the front third. That type of movie impact isn’t based around in your face immersion and very little if any is lost in doing a smaller presentation. What is impacted by going smaller is PQ and even playing it as small as my setup allows is still quite a bit larger than the largest flat panel TVs.

That’s the essence of PIA if it is important to you then it is an option to conceder.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #302 of 311 Old 07-11-2019, 08:30 AM
Member
 
nanoodhaliwal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
That would be my choice with the number of IMAX AR switching movies there are and the upcoming IMAX enhanced releases coming out. Not to mention many sporting events that are in 16:9 play pretty well IMAXed as they use the top and bottom of the screen for graphics. Then there is the streaming content Josh Z has been chronicling that is TV but in ARs like 2.00:1 and could benefit having screen space for the extra height to be projected to.

Having a 16:9 screen does not mean everything should be played as large possible. It only is there for content that deserves it. I would suggest in your planning phase experimenting with screen sizes and seating distance you play Dunkirk and Aquaman maybe The Dark Knight. As the changing between Scope and IMAX can be thought about in the same movie. View them as IMAX immersion and then how they would be framed down if fit into a scope AR screen. Some people also crop them using the blanking feature some projectors have and you could try that and see if the IMAX experience is something you could give up for the convenience of a scope screen.

Your room is not lacking height as some people have that forces them in the direction of a scope screen.

I don’t know if you watch old classics Academy AR movies but if you do play something like The Wizard of OZ (original) or Citizen Kane and you can compare them fit into scope framing or allowed to be taller with a 16:9 window.

As you can see there isn’t an easy answer rather a path you can follow to determine what works best for you. As an example we watched an early Robin Williams film Seize the Day (1986) the other day. It was filmed in 1.33:1 on 35mm and the transfer to digital along with it coming from a streaming site left a lot to be desired in PQ. I would have loved to play it as CIH immersion level but the quality was not there. So I zoomed it down so in effect it was like we were sitting in the back third of a theater instead of the front third. That type of movie impact isn’t based around in your face immersion and very little if any is lost in doing a smaller presentation. What is impacted by going smaller is PQ and even playing it as small as my setup allows is still quite a bit larger than the largest flat panel TVs.

That’s the essence of PIA if it is important to you then it is an option to conceder.
Thanks for your detailed reply bud, much appreciated Looks like I will build 16:9 and mask when needed. JVC 4K projectors have masking feature in built which would help.

What size I should go for? 126" ? Should I aim for 30fl's ?
nanoodhaliwal is offline  
post #303 of 311 Old 07-11-2019, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,829
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2129 Post(s)
Liked: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanoodhaliwal View Post
Thanks for your detailed reply bud, much appreciated Looks like I will build 16:9 and mask when needed. JVC 4K projectors have masking feature in built which would help.

What size I should go for? 126" ? Should I aim for 30fl's ?
If I personally had a 126” 16:9 screen and that were my max sized screen for IMAX I would want to be right around 8’-9' eyes to screen for all my viewing.

I would start out for sure seeing how the JVC blanking / masking feature would work. If that is good enough that would be a fantastic method. I have found and you can experiment and find out for yourself, but none of my guests ever notice slight black bars or complain about them. It is a curse for those of us really into the hobby to analyze presentation rather than watch the movies. I showed Dunkirk a dozen times to friends and family after it was released for home, and when I asked people if they were annoyed by the AR changing none of them knew what I was talking about and many argued it didn’t even happen. I had to replay and show them and then they said well no one would ever notice that if you didn’t point it out.

As to is 30FL enough I would say yes, but I’m not into the whole HDR hysteria yet in a lights out theater watching movies. I’m told tone mapping is more important with HDR content. I would suggest go to the JVC thread and see how others are handling the brightness thing. When my room is light tight and my eyes adjust for the lower light level I find film-like SDR at 15FL to fill my vision with wonderful bright colors. I know I’m told all the time I don’t know what I’m missing and maybe that is the case, but I feel my image is more than satisfying compared to all the movie viewing I have done thru my life. Something I think everyone needs to find out for themselves.

As your room progresses please feel free to add to this thread with photos and opinions on what you think and how the presentation method works for you. The thread is for anyone wanting to post.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #304 of 311 Old 07-12-2019, 10:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ladeback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,561
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1382 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Send a message via MSN to Ladeback
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
If I personally had a 126” 16:9 screen and that were my max sized screen for IMAX I would want to be right around 8’-9' eyes to screen for all my viewing.

I would start out for sure seeing how the JVC blanking / masking feature would work. If that is good enough that would be a fantastic method. I have found and you can experiment and find out for yourself, but none of my guests ever notice slight black bars or complain about them. It is a curse for those of us really into the hobby to analyze presentation rather than watch the movies. I showed Dunkirk a dozen times to friends and family after it was released for home, and when I asked people if they were annoyed by the AR changing none of them knew what I was talking about and many argued it didn’t even happen. I had to replay and show them and then they said well no one would ever notice that if you didn’t point it out.

As to is 30FL enough I would say yes, but I’m not into the whole HDR hysteria yet in a lights out theater watching movies. I’m told tone mapping is more important with HDR content. I would suggest go to the JVC thread and see how others are handling the brightness thing. When my room is light tight and my eyes adjust for the lower light level I find film-like SDR at 15FL to fill my vision with wonderful bright colors. I know I’m told all the time I don’t know what I’m missing and maybe that is the case, but I feel my image is more than satisfying compared to all the movie viewing I have done thru my life. Something I think everyone needs to find out for themselves.

As your room progresses please feel free to add to this thread with photos and opinions on what you think and how the presentation method works for you. The thread is for anyone wanting to post.
For me setting 8'-9' from a 126" 16:9 screen would be to close. I am good at 10' and have tried 9'. It was to close. I sit 11' from my 120" 16:9 screen for 1080p and like that. I use 2.25 x screen height to figure eyes to screen distance. Some like it closer and some like it father back. I would play with your seating distance to see what feels comfortable to you.

Klipsch KPS-400’s FR/FL with built in 15” 300 watt side firing subs, RC-7 Center, RS-3 Surrounds.
Integra DHC-60.5, 5- Marantz MA700 Mono Blocks, Pioneer DV-F727 301 Disk DVD CD Changer, Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/DVD/CD Player, Sony PS3.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ck-cinema.html
Ladeback is offline  
post #305 of 311 Old 07-12-2019, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,829
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2129 Post(s)
Liked: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
For me setting 8'-9' from a 126" 16:9 screen would be to close. I am good at 10' and have tried 9'. It was to close. I sit 11' from my 120" 16:9 screen for 1080p and like that. I use 2.25 x screen height to figure eyes to screen distance. Some like it closer and some like it father back. I would play with your seating distance to see what feels comfortable to you.
I’m with you that seating distance would be for IMAX content only or scope where there are black bars top and bottom.

The content plays a huge part 99% of most 16:9 TV content would be awful at that immersion.

My point is without a screen projector combo that allows for that immersion then you can never get it when you would like IMAX immersion. Just having the screen size available doesn’t force you to use it. All presentation involves some discipline except CIW like a TV. That method is the simplest but also the worst it makes scope smaller than TV and it makes TV and IMAX the same size.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
post #306 of 311 Old 07-12-2019, 01:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ladeback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,561
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1382 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Send a message via MSN to Ladeback
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I’m with you that seating distance would be for IMAX content only or scope where there are black bars top and bottom.

The content plays a huge part 99% of most 16:9 TV content would be awful at that immersion.

My point is without a screen projector combo that allows for that immersion then you can never get it when you would like IMAX immersion. Just having the screen size available doesn’t force you to use it. All presentation involves some discipline except CIW like a TV. That method is the simplest but also the worst it makes scope smaller than TV and it makes TV and IMAX the same size.
You could go with a 144" 2:1 screen. The 131" 16:9, a 140" 2.35:1, 138" 1.91:1 and a 131" 1.78:1 would fit inside of it. That is if you have the ceiling height and width. The screen would be 128.80" wide x 64.40" high. Eyes to screen in the front row would be 12'. That would kind of cover a lot of aspects maybe. I may need to look into that as well.

Klipsch KPS-400’s FR/FL with built in 15” 300 watt side firing subs, RC-7 Center, RS-3 Surrounds.
Integra DHC-60.5, 5- Marantz MA700 Mono Blocks, Pioneer DV-F727 301 Disk DVD CD Changer, Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/DVD/CD Player, Sony PS3.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ck-cinema.html
Ladeback is offline  
post #307 of 311 Old 07-12-2019, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,829
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2129 Post(s)
Liked: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
You could go with a 144" 2:1 screen. The 131" 16:9, a 140" 2.35:1, 138" 1.91:1 and a 131" 1.78:1 would fit inside of it. That is if you have the ceiling height and width. The screen would be 128.80" wide x 64.40" high. Eyes to screen in the front row would be 12'. That would kind of cover a lot of aspects maybe. I may need to look into that as well.
Keep in mind this line running thru this thread was originated by @nanoodhaliwal in post 296 when he asked what size screen would work for him in his room.

Because this thread is the only place on AVS it is truly safe to talk about variable AR presentation I nicknamed PIA we get many a thread within a thread when someone posts here. Or I have a chain of PMs with someone that then doesn’t benefit the community at large.

So it is his screen size and AR we are talking about here.

As to 2.0:1 AR screens go. I know there are more than a few members here that had hoped that the TV standard when it changed from 4:3 to 16:9 had instead made it 2.0:1 That as an AR would have been fine with me as well. But it didn’t it is 16:9 and unless someone persuade the world to once again spend billions switching to something new it will stay 16:9 1.77:1 IMO. It is the shape of TV it is the field of most projectors and it is the container media is formatted to. IMAX is 1.89 in theaters but much of it when extracted to home media is being done as 16:9. That’s up to the filmmakers if we get thin black bars or not, but the package is 1.77:1.

With my screen being a stealth wall of nondescript size and AR, I guess I could go thru all my antics of viewing and zooming for a year and marking all the widths and heights I use and come up with a screen AR and size that would include all. I know if I watched Dunkirk or Aquaman once the frame would be 1.77, but if I watched The Hateful Eight 2.76:1 just once it might be closer to 2.0:1 as I like to view that movie the same height I view most scope movies for no other reason than because I can.

So ya I guess I can see using any screen AR you want as long as it will hold everything you want to watch at the size you like to watch it. That statement even holds true for the guys here that have and love a 2.35:1 screen because I have been told many times Dunkirk or Aquaman look perfect fit into their screens.

So if more people didn’t mount their projector at a fixed distance at first and used a painted wall much larger than needed as a test screen for a while and for 6 months or so just played with sizes without moving their seats they to could come up with a custom AR to suit their needs. For simplicity I suggest a 16:9 screen if space permits sized to IMAX and then hopefully most everything else will fit in.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
post #308 of 311 Old 07-12-2019, 05:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ladeback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,561
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1382 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Send a message via MSN to Ladeback
My plan or dream is to have a AT 163" 2.35:1 screen where a 130" 16:9 inside of it sitting with my eyes 12' from the screen. With using and Epson or JVC projector with lens memory this should be possible.

For now I will live with my 120" 16:9 screen.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Klipsch KPS-400’s FR/FL with built in 15” 300 watt side firing subs, RC-7 Center, RS-3 Surrounds.
Integra DHC-60.5, 5- Marantz MA700 Mono Blocks, Pioneer DV-F727 301 Disk DVD CD Changer, Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/DVD/CD Player, Sony PS3.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ck-cinema.html
Ladeback is offline  
post #309 of 311 Old 07-13-2019, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,829
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2129 Post(s)
Liked: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
My plan or dream is to have a AT 163" 2.35:1 screen where a 130" 16:9 inside of it sitting with my eyes 12' from the screen. With using and Epson or JVC projector with lens memory this should be possible.

For now I will live with my 120" 16:9 screen.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Sounds awesome and it is good to have plans and dreams for sure. You will eventually get there I’m sure.

Most of us start with the hand we are dealt. That being some given budget and the room we would like to use. We look up to the lucky ones that seem to have a huge budget and then go off and construct a place to fit it. My plan and dream going back 20 years now was just do the best with what I have at the time and enjoy the hell out of it until something better comes along and I can afford it. Making more out of less in a way. sometimes I think it is as much fun tinkering with things as watching, and the real fun for me is watching others enjoy it.

I figure no need typing the sad or angry face as I know there will always be a next step but until I get there what I have now is really good too. So it is all for me.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
post #310 of 311 Old 07-13-2019, 09:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ladeback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 2,561
Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1382 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Send a message via MSN to Ladeback
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Sounds awesome and it is good to have plans and dreams for sure. You will eventually get there I’m sure.

Most of us start with the hand we are dealt. That being some given budget and the room we would like to use. We look up to the lucky ones that seem to have a huge budget and then go off and construct a place to fit it. My plan and dream going back 20 years now was just do the best with what I have at the time and enjoy the hell out of it until something better comes along and I can afford it. Making more out of less in a way. sometimes I think it is as much fun tinkering with things as watching, and the real fun for me is watching others enjoy it.

I figure no need typing the sad or angry face as I know there will always be a next step but until I get there what I have now is really good too. So it is all for me.
That wasn't supposed to be an angry face, but a big smile. Some of these emojis I can't always t ell what they are. I have been working on my current theater since we bought our house in 2007 and still not done. Live can get in the way. I think I may get it completed, I just keep second guessing what way I want to go and have. Thanks for the encouragement.
bud16415 likes this.

Klipsch KPS-400’s FR/FL with built in 15” 300 watt side firing subs, RC-7 Center, RS-3 Surrounds.
Integra DHC-60.5, 5- Marantz MA700 Mono Blocks, Pioneer DV-F727 301 Disk DVD CD Changer, Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/DVD/CD Player, Sony PS3.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...ck-cinema.html
Ladeback is offline  
post #311 of 311 Old 07-13-2019, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 7,829
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2129 Post(s)
Liked: 1075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
That wasn't supposed to be an angry face, but a big smile. Some of these emojis I can't always t ell what they are. I have been working on my current theater since we bought our house in 2007 and still not done. Live can get in the way. I think I may get it completed, I just keep second guessing what way I want to go and have. Thanks for the encouragement.
That was something I said about the PIA approach to presentation way back in the first post, even the title of the thread.

I know you are not a beginner but for a beginner or a veteran this method contains all other known methods of presentation given you have a projector to support it. If you had two or more users that had different preferences for presentation methods they could both do as they like. Or in my case I have family members that are totally not comfortable with anything close to high immersion, especially when it comes to action movies both in sound and image size. They are back row people who avoid overly loud modern theaters in their opinion. I just tone it all back. On the other hand I have a nephew that wants to feel like he’s in the movie and we play a lot of new release action movies loud and big.

I had a bunch of guys over for a UFC fight and I asked them how big should we go. They kept saying bigger, bigger. I told them to go any bigger I need to turn some lights out and they all said no problem bigger! So we watched UFC/IMAX.

The only way I know to do all this is have a screen large enough and then just use what you need.
Ladeback likes this.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off