Oppo UDP203’s 21x9 CIH Mode - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #271 of 404 Old 03-30-2019, 08:17 AM
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Lip Synch Problem with Apple TV through Denon and Oppo

I am having a strange lip synch problem with Apple TV 4K. It depends on which program sources you choose. If you select Netflix through the Apple TV 4K the lip synch will be off at one amount, if you choose an Apple program it will be off at a different amount, or not at all.

I had set the Denon to Auto Lip Synch correction, but since the video is being processed by the Oppo separately from the audio, which is being handled by the Denon, I don't think the auto lip synch has any way to work.
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post #272 of 404 Old 03-31-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rbouch8828 View Post
I am having a strange lip synch problem with Apple TV 4K. It depends on which program sources you choose. If you select Netflix through the Apple TV 4K the lip synch will be off at one amount, if you choose an Apple program it will be off at a different amount, or not at all.



I had set the Denon to Auto Lip Synch correction, but since the video is being processed by the Oppo separately from the audio, which is being handled by the Denon, I don't think the auto lip synch has any way to work.
How is everything connected? What model Denon?
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post #273 of 404 Old 04-01-2019, 07:25 AM
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How is everything connected? What model Denon?
It is connected via HDMI with the video going HDMI to a JVC DLA X790 Projector and the audio going HDMI to the Denon.
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post #274 of 404 Old 04-01-2019, 07:40 AM
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It is connected via HDMI with the video going HDMI to a JVC DLA X790 Projector and the audio going HDMI to the Denon.
What model Denon? Does it not support 4k?
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post #275 of 404 Old 04-01-2019, 09:13 AM
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I also have lip synch issues due to the Oppo in the processing path for anamorphic scaling. I end up with nearly 500ms delay and I can never get it quite perfect. I'm using an Onkyo rz830, but otherwise also have ATV4k and the jvc projector.

Does the delay entered in the Oppo config get applied to the HDMI in?
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post #276 of 404 Old 04-02-2019, 02:41 PM
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I am using a Denon AVR X6500H as an HDMI switch into the Oppo. The video from the Oppo goes to the JVC.
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post #277 of 404 Old 04-03-2019, 09:26 AM
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I am using a Denon AVR X6500H as an HDMI switch into the Oppo. The video from the Oppo goes to the JVC.
I am doing the same audio loop back method, so I can get Atmos from the ATV and use the Oppo for video processing. This lip synch issue seems to be the limitation.
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post #278 of 404 Old 04-03-2019, 12:35 PM
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Lip Synch Problem with Apple TV through Denon and Oppo

I know that you can make individual source lip synch adjustments on the Denon. However, what I have been running into is inconsistency in the lip sync error within a single source. For example in Apple TV 4K I may have one lip sync error with Netflix and yet another with Premier.

I haven't gone through them all individually yet to see what the extent of the errors are in each case. I need to do that and then see what I can do to bring them as close as possible to each other.
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post #279 of 404 Old 04-19-2019, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbouch8828 View Post
I know that you can make individual source lip synch adjustments on the Denon. However, what I have been running into is inconsistency in the lip sync error within a single source. For example in Apple TV 4K I may have one lip sync error with Netflix and yet another with Premier.

I haven't gone through them all individually yet to see what the extent of the errors are in each case. I need to do that and then see what I can do to bring them as close as possible to each other.
Well, it turns out the you can adjust the lip synch for each HDMI input on the Denon separately! This is terrific. Since I am passing all the video through an Oppo 203 and then sending it to the JVC projector, while the audio goes right to the speakers from the Denon, I have had to add delays to each channel. When doing it, I have found that 200ms gives me about what I need to get everything in synch from Apple TV as well as from Comcast, no matter whether it is from Netflix, Prime, YouTube, etc.

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post #280 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 07:10 AM
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Hey guys,

Had a question that popped up and maybe it was because I didn’t notice it before. When I have my projector zoomed in and I’m watching a imax scene, when I do 21:9 cropped and zoom in to 21:9 it cuts off some of the picture. Is that normal and I didn’t notice before or should it just be stretching the picture in a different way?
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post #281 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by edub90 View Post
Had a question that popped up and maybe it was because I didn’t notice it before. When I have my projector zoomed in and I’m watching a imax scene, when I do 21:9 cropped and zoom in to 21:9 it cuts off some of the picture. Is that normal and I didn’t notice before or should it just be stretching the picture in a different way?
That's normal. The alternative is to watch the movie with some of the picture projected onto your walls above and below the screen.

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post #282 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by edub90 View Post
Hey guys,

Had a question that popped up and maybe it was because I didn’t notice it before. When I have my projector zoomed in and I’m watching a imax scene, when I do 21:9 cropped and zoom in to 21:9 it cuts off some of the picture. Is that normal and I didn’t notice before or should it just be stretching the picture in a different way?
As Josh says, that is normal, even in cropped mode. You probably need to drop out of 21:9 mode in the setup menu and just watch it in 16x9 if you don't want the blanking. All you will lose is the 21:9 menu shape for disc-based material. And I don't mean using the zoom button, as that will give you pillar boxes in cropped mode, if i recall correctly.

I personally, think it is a great feature to automatically apply the blanking. I have not been able to figure out what the "full" option is doing in the zoom cycle. My guess is it is a setting for 4:3 content.
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post #283 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by edub90 View Post
Had a question that popped up and maybe it was because I didn’t notice it before. When I have my projector zoomed in and I’m watching a imax scene, when I do 21:9 cropped and zoom in to 21:9 it cuts off some of the picture. Is that normal and I didn’t notice before or should it just be stretching the picture in a different way?
That's normal. The alternative is to watch the movie with some of the picture projected onto your walls above and below the screen.
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Hey guys,

Had a question that popped up and maybe it was because I didn’t notice it before. When I have my projector zoomed in and I’m watching a imax scene, when I do 21:9 cropped and zoom in to 21:9 it cuts off some of the picture. Is that normal and I didn’t notice before or should it just be stretching the picture in a different way?
As Josh says, that is normal, even in cropped mode. You probably need to drop out of 21:9 mode in the setup menu and just watch it in 16x9 if you don't want the blanking. All you will lose is the 21:9 menu shape for disc-based material. And I don't mean using the zoom button, as that will give you pillar boxes in cropped mode, if i recall correctly.

I personally, think it is a great feature to automatically apply the blanking. I have not been able to figure out what the "full" option is doing in the zoom cycle. My guess is it is a setting for 4:3 content.
Thanks guys. Wasn’t sure If I just didn’t notice that the first time or if there was a glitch happening in the system.
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post #284 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 12:29 PM
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Thanks guys. Wasn’t sure If I just didn’t notice that the first time or if there was a glitch happening in the system.
I made the assumption you are not using a lens since you mentioned cropped mode. Without a lens there is no reason to stretch anything. Do you in fact have a lens? Maybe provide more description of your setup and what ratio you are trying to view when this happens.
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post #285 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 12:48 PM
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Thanks guys. Wasn’t sure If I just didn’t notice that the first time or if there was a glitch happening in the system.
I made the assumption you are not using a lens since you mentioned cropped mode. Without a lens there is no reason to stretch anything. Do you in fact have a lens? Maybe provide more description of your setup and what ratio you are trying to view when this happens.
You are correct. I’m not using a lens. I have a JVC RS1000 on a 115 inch 2:35 screen. For 2:35 films with black bars, I run that in 16:9 and just zoom in on the projector.

For imax movies and movies shot in 16:9 I thought I could do the 21:9 and save the image instead of cropping it, but my understanding was wrong lol. It still gets rid of the extra light on top and bottom though instead of masking with the JVC
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post #286 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 01:55 PM
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You are correct. I’m not using a lens. I have a JVC RS1000 on a 115 inch 2:35 screen. For 2:35 films with black bars, I run that in 16:9 and just zoom in on the projector.

For imax movies and movies shot in 16:9 I thought I could do the 21:9 and save the image instead of cropping it, but my understanding was wrong lol. It still gets rid of the extra light on top and bottom though instead of masking with the JVC
Save the image? Where would it go? Maybe you are thinking of non-linear stretch like in a lumagen?
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post #287 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 02:23 PM
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You are correct. I’m not using a lens. I have a JVC RS1000 on a 115 inch 2:35 screen. For 2:35 films with black bars, I run that in 16:9 and just zoom in on the projector.

For imax movies and movies shot in 16:9 I thought I could do the 21:9 and save the image instead of cropping it, but my understanding was wrong lol. It still gets rid of the extra light on top and bottom though instead of masking with the JVC
Save the image? Where would it go? Maybe you are thinking of non-linear stretch like in a lumagen?
Sorry for the confusion. Like when I was watching aquaman the other day the scenes that were shot with black bars looked fine but the second the 16:9 scenes showed up, it would chop off some of the image depending on the scene.

I was under the impression that the oppo would just scale it differently with the 21:9 mode but it seems like all it does is zoom so you don’t see the whole 16:9 image on the 2:35 screen.
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post #288 of 404 Old 04-29-2019, 06:31 PM
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Sorry for the confusion. Like when I was watching aquaman the other day the scenes that were shot with black bars looked fine but the second the 16:9 scenes showed up, it would chop off some of the image depending on the scene.

I was under the impression that the oppo would just scale it differently with the 21:9 mode but it seems like all it does is zoom so you don’t see the whole 16:9 image on the 2:35 screen.
You are correct, the Oppo is scaling for the screen, not the content. If you want to watch a variable aspect ratio film with expansion you have to play it in the 16x9 area of your screen in 16x9 mode. Or get a full width 16x9 screen, perhaps a pull down in front of your scope screen. There is a thread about variable ratio films and how to view them, and opinions vary considerably. I personally crop them off just as you experienced by mistake.
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post #289 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 08:46 AM
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I was under the impression that the oppo would just scale it differently with the 21:9 mode but it seems like all it does is zoom so you don’t see the whole 16:9 image on the 2:35 screen.
These variable ratio movies are composed to be safe for cropping. They only play with the variable ratio in IMAX theaters. In all other theaters, they have a constant 2.35:1 ratio.

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post #290 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 09:05 AM
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I was under the impression that the oppo would just scale it differently with the 21:9 mode but it seems like all it does is zoom so you don’t see the whole 16:9 image on the 2:35 screen.
These variable ratio movies are composed to be safe for cropping. They only play with the variable ratio in IMAX theaters. In all other theaters, they have a constant 2.35:1 ratio.
That’s strange because in Aquman it kept cutting off the top of the heads on the 16:9 scenes.
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post #291 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 09:59 AM
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That’s strange because in Aquman it kept cutting off the top of the heads on the 16:9 scenes.
Well, I suppose it's not a 100% guarantee. The footage is sometimes reframed separately for the CIH and VAR versions. The 3D copy of Aquaman has a constant 2.35:1 with no variable ratio.

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post #292 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 10:00 AM
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That’s strange because in Aquman it kept cutting off the top of the heads on the 16:9 scenes.
Funny you should mention that... I am in the process of doing some scene-by-scene comparisons of the UHD (variable AR) vs the 3D Blu-ray which only has the scope version. I think some people will be very surprised at the results.
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post #293 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 10:26 AM
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That’s strange because in Aquman it kept cutting off the top of the heads on the 16:9 scenes.
Well, I suppose it's not a 100% guarantee. The footage is sometimes reframed separately for the CIH and VAR versions. The 3D copy of Aquaman has a constant 2.35:1 with no variable ratio.
That would make sense. Just have to watch the 3D version instead 😉

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That’s strange because in Aquman it kept cutting off the top of the heads on the 16:9 scenes.
Funny you should mention that... I am in the process of doing some scene-by-scene comparisons of the UHD (variable AR) vs the 3D Blu-ray which only has the scope version. I think some people will be very surprised at the results.
I’d be very interested to hear the differences you are seeing if any.
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post #294 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 11:25 AM
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These variable ratio movies are composed to be safe for cropping. They only play with the variable ratio in IMAX theaters. In all other theaters, they have a constant 2.35:1 ratio.
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That’s strange because in Aquman it kept cutting off the top of the heads on the 16:9 scenes.
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Well, I suppose it's not a 100% guarantee. The footage is sometimes reframed separately for the CIH and VAR versions. The 3D copy of Aquaman has a constant 2.35:1 with no variable ratio.
If you went to see Aquaman in a non-IMAX theater then you saw a full-time scope version of the film.

The UHD has variable AR and just like Josh said...it is 100% scope safe (it was framed with the scope in mind).

The 3D Blu-ray only comes in scope and it is 100% framed exactly how the UHD would look like if it was scope (were using either zooming or using an A-lens to watch it).

I took the UHD and created two screencaps of each scene...one in the original IMAX version and the second one in the scoped version. The 3D Blu-ray is shown with the black bars so you can tell which one is which.

The folder I linked has them in this order for scene: 1) 3D Blu-ray 2) UHD scoped 3) UHD IMAX

As you can see there is no difference in framing between the 3D Blu-ray and the scoped UHD.

BTW....I was NOT able to do an exact same frame-by-frame of the two disks since the intro is different on the 3D Blu-ray and they do not sync.

Folder of all the images: https://imgur.com/a/RYtxpam
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post #295 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 11:48 AM
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If you went to see Aquaman in a non-IMAX theater then you saw a full-time scope version of the film.

The UHD has variable AR and just like Josh said...it is 100% scope safe (it was framed with the scope in mind).

The 3D Blu-ray only comes in scope and it is 100% framed exactly how the UHD would look like if it was scope (were using either zooming or using an A-lens to watch it).
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That’s strange because in Aquman it kept cutting off the top of the heads on the 16:9 scenes.
Keep in mind that with a close-up of someone's face (like the shot Killroy attached to the last post), it's not unusual that the top of the head might get cut off. A close-up should focus on the actor's eyes, not their forehead.

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post #296 of 404 Old 04-30-2019, 12:03 PM
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I expect we'd find that most variable ratio movies are like Killroy describes, where the 2.35:1 version is a direct extraction from the center of the frame. Applying masking to the top and bottom of the VAR version creates a seamless copy of the CIH version.

Selective shot-by-shot reframing does happen. There are screenshots of framing differences in The Dark Knight in posts 134 and 137 of this thread. However, even in that case, a viewer could easily watch the VAR version matted and not notice anything wrong. Even though the framing is slightly different in the dedicated CIH version, the other still looks well composed.

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post #297 of 404 Old 05-03-2019, 09:52 AM
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I expect we'd find that most variable ratio movies are like Killroy describes, where the 2.35:1 version is a direct extraction from the center of the frame. Applying masking to the top and bottom of the VAR version creates a seamless copy of the CIH version.

Selective shot-by-shot reframing does happen. There are screenshots of framing differences in The Dark Knight in posts 134 and 137 of this thread. However, even in that case, a viewer could easily watch the VAR version matted and not notice anything wrong. Even though the framing is slightly different in the dedicated CIH version, the other still looks well composed.
There was another striking example in one of these threads that had a Guardians of the Galaxy (1 or 2?) screen shot where there was a character at the bottom of the IMAX frame who would have been cut off in a scope center-crop. It looked like it was intentionally showing vast space above. I wish the aspect ratio changing would stop. It's annoying.
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post #298 of 404 Old 05-17-2019, 10:09 AM
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I've never used the 21:9 option on my OPPO, I just use the lens memory and zoom for different aspect ratios. Would I be better off to use the 21:9 on the OPPO instead of the lens memory? Would I have better resolution if I did it that way? I also use custom curves as opposed to the functions on the OPPO. Maybe I should play around with that also. Equipment is in my signature. Sorry I'm kind of a noob when it comes to this stuff.

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post #299 of 404 Old 05-17-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Gates View Post
I've never used the 21:9 option on my OPPO, I just use the lens memory and zoom for different aspect ratios. Would I be better off to use the 21:9 on the OPPO instead of the lens memory? Would I have better resolution if I did it that way?
The OPPO's 21:9 modes use scaling to either stretch a letterboxed 2.35:1 image to fill the vertical height of the frame (intended to be used with an anamorphic lens that will correct the picture geometry, which you presumably don't have) or to shrink 16:9 content down to fit within the 21:9 portion of the frame.

If you don't have an anamorphic lens, doing the Zoom Method with lens memory is the best way to retain the full original resolution of the image. You don't need the OPPO's 21:9 modes for that.
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post #300 of 404 Old 05-17-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
The OPPO's 21:9 modes use scaling to either stretch a letterboxed 2.35:1 image to fill the vertical height of the frame (intended to be used with an anamorphic lens that will correct the picture geometry, which you presumably don't have) or to shrink 16:9 content down to fit within the 21:9 portion of the frame.

If you don't have an anamorphic lens, doing the Zoom Method with lens memory is the best way to retain the full original resolution of the image. You don't need the OPPO's 21:9 modes for that.
Ah I see, thank you for the explanation.

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