Oppo UDP203’s 21x9 CIH Mode - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 306 Old 02-19-2018, 01:57 PM
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That is very cool. And this works on the HDMI input as well?

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post #62 of 306 Old 02-19-2018, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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That is very cool. And this works on the HDMI input as well?
Yes it will, on both hdmi and usb in’s.
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post #63 of 306 Old 02-19-2018, 09:28 PM
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coolrda is the full zoom designed for 16:9 content through lens for a scope screen ?

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post #64 of 306 Old 02-19-2018, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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coolrda is the full zoom designed for 16:9 content through lens for a scope screen ?
Full stretches 16x9 content to fill the screen. 16:9 mode would look like squeezed 4:3 without the lens. 21:9 zooms in all directions. All of the above is with 21:9 Fixed.
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post #65 of 306 Old 02-21-2018, 07:20 PM
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Oppo UDP203’s 21x9 CIH Mode

I have also the 103 and the 93 Oppos and I decided to use the stretch mode on the Oppo 103 to see how it looks and low and behold I get the info like the 21:9 setting on the Oppo 203 ( just too clarify there is no 21:9 aspect ratio setting in the 103 ) when using stretch mode . Meaning everything is on screen as well like the volume control etc not cut off like my JVC anamorphic does.

Edit : I’ve also tried my Oppo 93 region A with the same results.

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post #66 of 306 Old 02-22-2018, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn’t know that about 103 or 93. Always did my scaling through the projector.

The big thing with the 203 beta is the HDR>SDR tone mapping function with luminance slider and 4 modes. It’s remarkable and I can say I really hadn’t experienced hdr/wcg. Plus dynamic iris functions in hdr now which is a very big deal. BvS which was pretty much unwatchable in HDR is now phenomenal. Black and mid tone detail is so resolved and the dynamics are still blindingly real. The Great Wall was stunning with the TM. Star Trek and several others clipped with luminance at 300 nots so I’m using 500. Basically iMovies now look like the Blu-ray plus all the addition benefits. No more dark 4K movies.
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post #67 of 306 Old 02-22-2018, 08:38 PM
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I didn’t know that about 103 or 93. Always did my scaling through the projector.




Yeah I used to do the same. Not anymore though

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post #68 of 306 Old 02-27-2018, 08:51 AM
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I am interested in the 21:9 cropped mode for potentially using a faux-K projector without lens memory for a CIH zoomed without A-lens. I may invest in a lens later but I have projection distance issues due to a ceiling beam and may not have enough throw for a lens.

Doing the math, the 16:9 image will only use about 56% of the panel (and light), but it will still be higher resolution than the cable TV source for most 16:9 content. What kind of experience should I expect with scaling in this manner?

How would I best handle intermediate aspect ratios like 2.0:1 ?
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post #69 of 306 Old 03-01-2018, 02:30 PM
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How would I best handle intermediate aspect ratios like 2.0:1 ?
This is where your zoom memory will come into play. The main presents are based on 1.33:1 (1.78 is 1.33 x 1.33 and 2.37 is 1.78 x 1.33) so anything outside of that ratio needs special consideration.

You should be able to set up memory modes for every AR in between.

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post #70 of 306 Old 03-02-2018, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I am interested in the 21:9 cropped mode for potentially using a faux-K projector without lens memory for a CIH zoomed without A-lens. I may invest in a lens later but I have projection distance issues due to a ceiling beam and may not have enough throw for a lens.

Doing the math, the 16:9 image will only use about 56% of the panel (and light), but it will still be higher resolution than the cable TV source for most 16:9 content. What kind of experience should I expect with scaling in this manner?

How would I best handle intermediate aspect ratios like 2.0:1 ?
If your using a projector w/o a zoom feature, it comes down to the content framing. I would manually zoom if it didn’t fit good cropped to 2.35.
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post #71 of 306 Old 03-05-2018, 07:18 AM
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If your using a projector w/o a zoom feature, it comes down to the content framing. I would manually zoom if it didn’t fit good cropped to 2.35.
Good point. Though I may always wonder what I have missed.
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post #72 of 306 Old 03-06-2018, 04:38 PM
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I got my OPPO 203 installed yesterday.
I have to say, the 21:9 mode (I am using fixed lens option) is brilliant.
The projector is set up in REAL mode and the OPPO does it's thing. Very impressed.

It seemed to change AR with this title on its own.

Calibration? Well that is a whole other thing.

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post #73 of 306 Old 03-07-2018, 02:04 PM
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I know AVS has it's own dedicated calibration section, but are we able to discuss tone mapping and other aspects related to calibration of CIH systems here?

I think I had a win on my own system.

The image above does not really show it, but HDR content pre-calibration has a sort grey smoke appearance to it. To me, it is almost like they took the 50, 60 70 and even 80 IRE midtones and pulled then all down a notch to allow room at white for highlights. Generally, this darker looking image has annoyed me given SDR does not seem to suffer this. Now I have my cake and am eating it too.

After several hours of reading and playing, I have been able to get a CR that looks much better than any of my SDR BDs with a brightness far greater than SDR and still maintain deep blacks (or as deep as what my DLP can do). The only issue is I have had to set the player back to 1080 auto for my set up because I don't yet have a 4k projector, so I am getting 1080P rez, not 4K.

The key differences I am seeing is the extra details in the shadows (because UHD sets video black at 0, not 7.5) and the whites are much brighter than anything SDR offers.

I even got what might be a case of highlights. In the BATMAN Vs SUPERMAN movie, there is a bright scene where they dive to find kryptonite. There is a sun highlight that on SDR is just either a big white mass (crushed whites) or nothing special. After this rather odd way of calibrating the display, this white had depth and was intense.

And I think this needs discussion.

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post #74 of 306 Old 03-07-2018, 06:04 PM
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After several hours of reading and playing, I have been able to get a CR that looks much better than any of my SDR BDs with a brightness far greater than SDR and still maintain deep blacks (or as deep as what my DLP can do). The only issue is I have had to set the player back to 1080 auto for my set up because I don't yet have a 4k projector, so I am getting 1080P rez, not 4K.

The key differences I am seeing is the extra details in the shadows (because UHD sets video black at 0, not 7.5) and the whites are much brighter than anything SDR offers.
What else did you do differently other than set the resolution for 1080 Auto? If you don't have a 4k projector, shouldn't the normal "Auto" resolution output setting default to 1080p anyway during the HDMI handshake? I'm not understanding why this made a difference for you.

What is your projector?

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post #75 of 306 Old 03-07-2018, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I know AVS has it's own dedicated calibration section, but are we able to discuss tone mapping and other aspects related to calibration of CIH systems here?

I think I had a win on my own system.

The image above does not really show it, but HDR content pre-calibration has a sort grey smoke appearance to it. To me, it is almost like they took the 50, 60 70 and even 80 IRE midtones and pulled then all down a notch to allow room at white for highlights. Generally, this darker looking image has annoyed me given SDR does not seem to suffer this. Now I have my cake and am eating it too.

After several hours of reading and playing, I have been able to get a CR that looks much better than any of my SDR BDs with a brightness far greater than SDR and still maintain deep blacks (or as deep as what my DLP can do). The only issue is I have had to set the player back to 1080 auto for my set up because I don't yet have a 4k projector, so I am getting 1080P rez, not 4K.

The key differences I am seeing is the extra details in the shadows (because UHD sets video black at 0, not 7.5) and the whites are much brighter than anything SDR offers.

I even got what might be a case of highlights. In the BATMAN Vs SUPERMAN movie, there is a bright scene where they dive to find kryptonite. There is a sun highlight that on SDR is just either a big white mass (crushed whites) or nothing special. After this rather odd way of calibrating the display, this white had depth and was intense.

And I think this needs discussion.
I’m down. We need more discussion of this topic around here IMO. What settings are you using? I assume it’s strip metadata. Or is it HDR>SDR with Off BT709? What your describing is typical of what happens with grading being done on displays with much higher light output. This pic illustrates it best.

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post #76 of 306 Old 03-07-2018, 10:17 PM
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When I first connected the player and loaded a disc, the image looked smokey.
I didn't understand what was going on right away but now I think I have got a pretty good grip on it now.

OPPO 203 set to 1080 auto. I could set this to straight auto and let the HDMI handshake do it's thing.

HDR slide is now set at 100 nits and brightness and contrast are set using the player controls. So yes I am converting HDR back to SDR in the player.

Projector is still the same old BenQ W6000 I have used since 2011.

I have done a full calibration again this morning. I prefer to use controls in the service menu rather than those in the user menus because there is far greater control there.

I used the HDR-10 patterns I have on a USB as the source.

Gamma is currently set to 2.4 but I think you can change that for your environment. 2.4 is working in my room as the projector controls are all default to 50 and the OPPO contrast is only +1. Brightness is 0.

My projector does not like 2020 patterns at 100%, so I had to use 75% and it mapped out to rec709. I did that percentage thing to set all the colours where if white is 100%, red is 21, green is 72 etc.

But the biggest differce is having the white point at D6500K or x:0.313, y:0.329.

There was a new FW update this morning and I believe that is the new tone mapping. I think I prefer mode 2 at this time.

What I did notice is that the slider rolls off the top end of the curve making it into an S when normally we would have a smooth transition from black to white.

Yes this preserves the highlights and so the big question on my mind right now is - apart from the extra rez of 4k, why do we even want a HDR capable displays. Surely as long as it does 2020, this level of processing seems to be a winner.

Right now, the only thing bugging me about using a 1080p over something that is 2160p is I can see jaggies on angles and text. You just don't really see that on 4k.

So this upgrade has certainly been worth the time and effort.

The 21:9 mode is doing something weird too. Geometry is perfect using real or 1:1 mapping on the projector. If I go to the FULL mode and use letterbox on the projector, there is a geometry error.



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post #77 of 306 Old 03-08-2018, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice. I really hate that HDR to SDR title because your actually compressing the HDR data, remapping for the display. I your case I would use Off bt709. Unless your gamut extends to P3.

While you can get some of the benefits of HDR, there’s a considerable difference between my BenQ and my JVC RS40.

Several generations removed, my RS520 has the necessary light to do HDR conversion really well. The difference between my W5000 and the rs520 is night and day. Being my display does 100nits calibrated, barely, the 300-400nit setting seems to do the best job at avoiding clipping. It gives HDR capable projectors necessary breathing room. Better tone mapping is the future.

Ive started experimenting with the 100-250nit comparing them to the HDR/2084.

As far as the geometry issue your having, why are you scaling with your projector? It should be set to full or no scaling mode, then all scaling is done by the 203.
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post #78 of 306 Old 03-08-2018, 03:47 PM
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Nice. I really hate that HDR to SDR title because your actually compressing the HDR data, remapping for the display. I your case I would use Off bt709. Unless your gamut extends to P3.
I will need to check what it does to highlights. That scene in BMvSM blows my mind. It is not the same on the BD. Right now, I get them and I must say, they add WOW to the picture. The colour is rec709, so I have not gained anything there that, but I have gained blacks that go to 0 and don't stop at 7.5%. To blacks as deep on BD requires a smidth of crush.

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While you can get some of the benefits of HDR, there’s a considerable difference between my BenQ and my JVC RS40.

Several generations removed, my RS520 has the necessary light to do HDR conversion really well. The difference between my W5000 and the rs520 is night and day. Being my display does 100nits calibrated, barely, the 300-400nit setting seems to do the best job at avoiding clipping. It gives HDR capable projectors necessary breathing room. Better tone mapping is the future.

Ive started experimenting with the 100-250nit comparing them to the HDR/2084.
Something needs looking into is that right now I can push the white level right up because I have 2 sets of contrast controls and the HDR slide expands crushed whites as you go up in its range. Ideally we want 100 nits, so it might be possible to do this by driving the display a bit harder given we now have external video control in the player.

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As far as the geometry issue your having, why are you scaling with your projector? It should be set to full or no scaling mode, then all scaling is done by the 203.
I was testing to see what device scales better. As far as straight VS goes, the BenQ wins, but then there is having to grab a 2nd remote, fumble in the dark to find it's light to see the buttons to make sure I actually push letterbox and not something else. The OPPO remotes lights as soon as you pick it up and that button is easy to find.

However, what I discovered is that there must be some remapping going on as you can't just go from 16:9 full and use VS in the projector. You have to use the 21:9 mode with real or 1:1 mapping.

It is convenience more than anything.

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post #79 of 306 Old 03-09-2018, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I will need to check what it does to highlights. That scene in BMvSM blows my mind. It is not the same on the BD. Right now, I get them and I must say, they add WOW to the picture. The colour is rec709, so I have not gained anything there that, but I have gained blacks that go to 0 and don't stop at 7.5%. To blacks as deep on BD requires a smidth of crush.



Something needs looking into is that right now I can push the white level right up because I have 2 sets of contrast controls and the HDR slide expands crushed whites as you go up in its range. Ideally we want 100 nits, so it might be possible to do this by driving the display a bit harder given we now have external video control in the player.



I was testing to see what device scales better. As far as straight VS goes, the BenQ wins, but then there is having to grab a 2nd remote, fumble in the dark to find it's light to see the buttons to make sure I actually push letterbox and not something else. The OPPO remotes lights as soon as you pick it up and that button is easy to find.

However, what I discovered is that there must be some remapping going on as you can't just go from 16:9 full and use VS in the projector. You have to use the 21:9 mode with real or 1:1 mapping.

It is convenience more than anything.
The tone mapping really is spectacular. It will definitely extend the life of prior generation projectors and make them look better than ever. Laying that down on a good calibration is a jaw dropper. I have been analyzing the picture for several days using Prometheus and then rewatched all of BR2049 with mode 2 & 3, 100-400nits and on low/hi lamp. It’s the first UHDBR mastered at 10000 nits. That really is a phenomenal BR in all aspects. It looks perfect spot on with M3/100nit/low lamp settings. The picture was mesmerizing, it had a luminescent look that reminded me of Oled. It’s too bad I can’t get better ansi contrast, but that’s a by product of a wall to wall screen.
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post #80 of 306 Old 03-09-2018, 11:44 AM
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The tone mapping really is spectacular. It will definitely extend the life of prior generation projectors and make them look better than ever. Laying that down on a good calibration is a jaw dropper. I have been analyzing the picture for several days using Prometheus and then rewatched all of BR2049 with mode 2 & 3, 100-400nits and on low/hi lamp. It’s the first UHDBR mastered at 10000 nits. That really is a phenomenal BR in all aspects. It looks perfect spot on with M3/100nit/low lamp settings. The picture was mesmerizing, it had a luminescent look that reminded me of Oled. It’s too bad I can’t get better ansi contrast, but that’s a by product of a wall to wall screen.
I was already sold on getting the BR2049 UHD (for my non-existent future 4K system based on CAVX screenshot of Ana DeArmas, but using it for reference material might be a more acceptable excuse, so thanks for that.

Are all of the tuning measures being discussed here in the Oppo or in your projectors? I was drawn to the Oppo to support an A-lens, but if it turns out my install cannot accommodate the throw for the lens, I was considering goping for a cheaper player or an xbox instead. Is this a case for the Oppo being significantly better than those alternatives?
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post #81 of 306 Old 03-09-2018, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I was already sold on getting the BR2049 UHD (for my non-existent future 4K system based on CAVX screenshot of Ana DeArmas, but using it for reference material might be a more acceptable excuse, so thanks for that.

Are all of the tuning measures being discussed here in the Oppo or in your projectors? I was drawn to the Oppo to support an A-lens, but if it turns out my install cannot accommodate the throw for the lens, I was considering goping for a cheaper player or an xbox instead. Is this a case for the Oppo being significantly better than those alternatives?
They’re in the Oppo. The tone mapping is a huge deal. You can get in the 4K/HDR game now while waiting on a 4K projector.

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post #82 of 306 Old 03-09-2018, 07:42 PM
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They’re in the Oppo. The tone mapping is a huge deal. You can get in the 4K/HDR game now while waiting on a 4K projector.
Thanks for the explanation. Part of me fears the amount of tinkering that will undoubtedly take place. Will drive my wife nuts!
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post #83 of 306 Old 03-10-2018, 04:56 PM
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I was already sold on getting the BR2049 UHD (for my non-existent future 4K system based on CAVX screenshot of Ana DeArmas, but using it for reference material might be a more acceptable excuse, so thanks for that.

Are all of the tuning measures being discussed here in the Oppo or in your projectors? I was drawn to the Oppo to support an A-lens, but if it turns out my install cannot accommodate the throw for the lens, I was considering goping for a cheaper player or an xbox instead. Is this a case for the Oppo being significantly better than those alternatives?
Normally when I calibrate, I would start with the basic user controls and adjust brightness, contrast etc.

In my case, I did grey scale in service first (this mode has 1024 steps) to get a solid D6500K or x: 0.313, y: 0.329.

Normally I would use the S&M BD for a source, but this time, I used the UHD HDR-10 patterns on a USB plugged directly into the OPPO 203.

After grey scale, I measured colours and this is where I found a major problem. My BenQ W6000 can not handle 2020 at 100% as as input, especially the red. It just bombed out looking like a bright pink. Green and blue were OK, so I had to use 75% patterns. I started by measuring white, then used my excel spreadsheet table to work out the levels of RGBYCM. These colours map out the same as REC709 at 100%.

Then back to grey scale to check those levels again.

Then onto the OPPO and playing with the HDR mode, brightness and contrast in the player. I left the projector controls at their default settings.

What I did discover however is that SDR content needs it's own user mode. So I copied the settings over and made the appropriate adjustments with the projector's Brightness/Contrast.

Everything looks pretty darn good.

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post #84 of 306 Old 03-12-2018, 12:28 PM
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Mark, the "21:9 fixed" video output setup mode in the Oppo is intended as a replacement for all anamorphic processing in the projector (particularly for projectors that don't have it). The "Full" mode with that setup is intended as an option to fill the 2.4:1 screen with stretched but uncropped 16:9/1.85:1 content - basically it's a pass through. That mode had a glitch a couple months ago (it H stretched too much) but is corrected in the latest firmware. Conceivably you could use the "Full" mode on 2.4:1 movies and then use the VS on the projector but wouldn't you just use the 21:9 mode from the Oppo instead?

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post #85 of 306 Old 03-12-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn Kelly View Post
Mark, the "21:9 fixed" video output setup mode in the Oppo is intended as a replacement for all anamorphic processing in the projector (particularly for projectors that don't have it). The "Full" mode with that setup is intended as an option to fill the 2.4:1 screen with stretched but uncropped 16:9/1.85:1 content - basically it's a pass through. That mode had a glitch a couple months ago (it H stretched too much) but is corrected in the latest firmware. Conceivably you could use the "Full" mode on 2.4:1 movies and then use the VS on the projector but wouldn't you just use the 21:9 mode from the Oppo instead?
Thanks for clarifying. I have done the latest FW, but have not since checked the geometry. It is just easier to use 1:1 mapping "REAL" on the projector and 21:9 mode on the OPPO.

OK makes sense that they have applied basically what would be about 4% scaling to rid the slivers. But they need to get the amount HS correct as well or you get geometry issues as I saw.

And by holding down the info button and scrolling to the last page you get the full story. On page 1, player is inputting BT2020/10BIT and on page 3, states it is outputting BT709/8BIT.

Still think this way looks better than straight BD.

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post #86 of 306 Old 03-25-2018, 06:36 AM
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Picked this up today.
This is my first time seeing Dolby Vision? I thought Blade Runner 2049 was Dolby Vision as it is credited as such on the back of the cover.

A couple of things.
1. This glitched heaps whilst trying to sync.
2. The 21:9 does not work with this disc. Lucky for me, my projector did scale for CIH using the letter box mode.
3. Even thought the meta data shows frame rate of 23.97, the out put of the OPPO is locked at 1080/60P. What was really odd here was how smooth the image looked. None of the usual 3/2 pull down nastiest I would get with a BD if 24fps was turned off.

Anyone else got this yet?

Sent from my CPH1701 using Tapatalk

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post #87 of 306 Old 03-25-2018, 11:17 AM
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This is my first time seeing Dolby Vision? I thought Blade Runner 2049 was Dolby Vision as it is credited as such on the back of the cover.
The UHD Blu-ray for Blade Runner 2049 is HDR10. Only the 4k streaming edition of that movie includes Dolby Vision.

From the images on Amazon, I don't see any mention of Dolby Vision on the disc packaging, just Atmos and a generic reference to HDR.

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post #88 of 306 Old 03-25-2018, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CAVX View Post
Picked this up today.
This is my first time seeing Dolby Vision? I thought Blade Runner 2049 was Dolby Vision as it is credited as such on the back of the cover.

A couple of things.
1. This glitched heaps whilst trying to sync.
2. The 21:9 does not work with this disc. Lucky for me, my projector did scale for CIH using the letter box mode.
3. Even thought the meta data shows frame rate of 23.97, the out put of the OPPO is locked at 1080/60P. What was really odd here was how smooth the image looked. None of the usual 3/2 pull down nastiest I would get with a BD if 24fps was turned off.

Anyone else got this yet?

Sent from my CPH1701 using Tapatalk
Nice. I’ll check on this issue when I get my copy.

Last edited by coolrda; 03-27-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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post #89 of 306 Old 03-26-2018, 10:34 PM
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Nice. I’ll check on this issues when I get my copy.
How common is it for the 21:9 mode to fail? I was planning to make my 203 the primary scaler for my system. Does it only break on discs with odd encoding or might it fail on streaming sources? 4k60 streaming or gaming will be problematic if I can't rely on the OPPO, which went in the mail today (yay!)
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post #90 of 306 Old 03-27-2018, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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How common is it for the 21:9 mode to fail? I was planning to make my 203 the primary scaler for my system. Does it only break on discs with odd encoding or might it fail on streaming sources? 4k60 streaming or gaming will be problematic if I can't rely on the OPPO, which went in the mail today (yay!)
Has never failed me.

Last edited by coolrda; 03-27-2018 at 02:34 PM.
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