Is panamorph UH-480.up to. The 4k challenge jvc 5/7N - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 33 Old 09-13-2018, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Is panamorph UH-480.up to. The 4k challenge jvc 5/7N

I've. Been really happy with the 480.with my mitsubishi Hc-5. It might be beyond repair {insurance company is making a repair attempt... Grrr).

The hc5 is physically almost identical to the new. Jvcs.

Would love a paladin... But that's out of the cards...

I have a home built 127" wide curved acoustically transparent screen built from falcon screen material (out of business from my search...)

I'm wondering if the 480 can fully resolve 4k... Or if the new 17:9 dila chip size is somehow incompatible with the 480.

For all I know the weave of my screen may not be up to resolving 4k...in which case the 480 would still allow constant height, and improved brightness.

Anyone got thoughts?
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post #2 of 33 Old 09-17-2018, 04:28 PM
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I'm in the same boat you are. I have a Runco LS-5 with the Panamorph UH-480. My first and only projector. I would like to upgrade to a 4K projector like the JVC N5 or N7 but looking at the this from Thomas Norton S&V.

"Panamorph no longer uses a sled to move its anamorphic lens into and out of position; it’s now always fixed in place in front of the projection lens. The lenses are pricey: $9,000 for the Paladin DCR (needed if the projector has a horizontal resolution of 4,096, as do the Sony 4Ks and the new JVC 4Ks, the latter a surprise to me). If the projector’s horizontal resolution is 3,840 you can skimp by with the non DCR Paladin for $7,000."

This makes me think I need to get one of the new lenses in order to get the full benefit of a 4k projector like the new JVC's. I suppose I could get the 790R with the big price drop and still potentially use the UH-480 lens with this and probably be pretty happy for a while.
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post #3 of 33 Old 09-18-2018, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay5298 View Post
I'm in the same boat you are. I have a Runco LS-5 with the Panamorph UH-480. My first and only projector. I would like to upgrade to a 4K projector like the JVC N5 or N7 but looking at the this from Thomas Norton S&V.

"Panamorph no longer uses a sled to move its anamorphic lens into and out of position; it’s now always fixed in place in front of the projection lens. The lenses are pricey: $9,000 for the Paladin DCR (needed if the projector has a horizontal resolution of 4,096, as do the Sony 4Ks and the new JVC 4Ks, the latter a surprise to me). If the projector’s horizontal resolution is 3,840 you can skimp by with the non DCR Paladin for $7,000."

This makes me think I need to get one of the new lenses in order to get the full benefit of a 4k projector like the new JVC's. I suppose I could get the 790R with the big price drop and still potentially use the UH-480 lens with this and probably be pretty happy for a while.
The new JVCs have a 4096x2160 panel. However, you have the option of displaying a UHD signal at the content's native 3840x2160 (slightly pillarboxed on the screen) or scaled to fit 4096x2160. If you do the former and let the pillarbox bars overshoot your screen, you should still be able to use a normal 1.33x anamorphic lens. Only if you use the full panel do you need a special lens with a different stretch factor.

(All "4k" home video content is actually 3840x2160.)

Whether the UH480's optics are up to resolving 4k resolution is a question I'd like answered as well.
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post #4 of 33 Old 09-19-2018, 11:11 PM
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Well I just upgraded to the JVC RS640 and i kept my UH480 and sled in place. I haven't done an A/B test with the lens memory vs the UH480, but I certainly don't have any complaints. In fact, the RS640 seemed much easier to get dialed in with the Panamorph than the RS50 I replaced.

Other than an A/B comparison, anything else less subjective that I could test to give a better answer than "looks great to me"?

Jeff
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post #5 of 33 Old 09-19-2018, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay5298 View Post
"Panamorph no longer uses a sled to move its anamorphic lens into and out of position; it’s now always fixed in place in front of the projection lens. The lenses are pricey: $9,000 for the Paladin DCR (needed if the projector has a horizontal resolution of 4,096, as do the Sony 4Ks and the new JVC 4Ks, the latter a surprise to me). If the projector’s horizontal resolution is 3,840 you can skimp by with the non DCR Paladin for $7,000."
I question the wisdom of this; although I prefer anamorphic projection for widescreen material, not sure I'm willing to compromise 16:9 content. I'd still want a mechanism to move the lens in and out of position.
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post #6 of 33 Old 09-20-2018, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Well I just upgraded to the JVC RS640 and i kept my UH480 and sled in place. I haven't done an A/B test with the lens memory vs the UH480, but I certainly don't have any complaints. In fact, the RS640 seemed much easier to get dialed in with the Panamorph than the RS50 I replaced.

Other than an A/B comparison, anything else less subjective that I could test to give a better answer than "looks great to me"?

Jeff
Well this is good news! I think I will wait for some reviews on the new JVC's, but the X790R seems too good to pass up at the reduced price.
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post #7 of 33 Old 10-21-2018, 03:49 PM
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Did you guys send John at Panamorph a email to get their formal statement on this?
I’d like it answered also.

Can you test it yourself?
Slide the lens out, put the PJ in single pixel calibration mode, then slide the lens in and see any degradation, can you see any loss, chromatic aberration, etc.


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post #8 of 33 Old 10-24-2018, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
Did you guys send John at Panamorph a email to get their formal statement on this?
I’d like it answered also.

Can you test it yourself?
Slide the lens out, put the PJ in single pixel calibration mode, then slide the lens in and see any degradation, can you see any loss, chromatic aberration, etc.


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It's Shawn - not John. Just FYI.

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post #9 of 33 Old 10-24-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
I question the wisdom of this; although I prefer anamorphic projection for widescreen material, not sure I'm willing to compromise 16:9 content. I'd still want a mechanism to move the lens in and out of position.
You might be able to rig up a slide or other method to remove it from the light path yourself. That's what I did. It was easy.
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post #10 of 33 Old 10-24-2018, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay5298 View Post
I'm in the same boat you are. I have a Runco LS-5 with the Panamorph UH-480. My first and only projector. I would like to upgrade to a 4K projector like the JVC N5 or N7 but looking at the this from Thomas Norton S&V.

"Panamorph no longer uses a sled to move its anamorphic lens into and out of position; it’s now always fixed in place in front of the projection lens. The lenses are pricey: $9,000 for the Paladin DCR (needed if the projector has a horizontal resolution of 4,096, as do the Sony 4Ks and the new JVC 4Ks, the latter a surprise to me). If the projector’s horizontal resolution is 3,840 you can skimp by with the non DCR Paladin for $7,000."

This makes me think I need to get one of the new lenses in order to get the full benefit of a 4k projector like the new JVC's. I suppose I could get the 790R with the big price drop and still potentially use the UH-480 lens with this and probably be pretty happy for a while.
The Panamorph lenses are not that expensive if you find a good dealer. You don't have to pay full MSRP. Just saying.

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post #11 of 33 Old 10-24-2018, 03:36 PM
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Is panamorph UH-480.up to. The 4k challenge jvc 5/7N

Quote:
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It's Shawn - not John. Just FYI.


Your right, I delt with John S directly prior when I was discussing with them circia 2008-2010, he was active here.






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post #12 of 33 Old 08-20-2019, 07:22 PM
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The new JVCs have a 4096x2160 panel. However, you have the option of displaying a UHD signal at the content's native 3840x2160 (slightly pillarboxed on the screen) or scaled to fit 4096x2160. If you do the former and let the pillarbox bars overshoot your screen, you should still be able to use a normal 1.33x anamorphic lens. Only if you use the full panel do you need a special lens with a different stretch factor.

(All "4k" home video content is actually 3840x2160.)

Whether the UH480's optics are up to resolving 4k resolution is a question I'd like answered as well.
Sorry to revive an old thread, but I am considering upgrading to a JVC NX7/RS2000, and I already own a Panamorph UH480. Will they work together, or do I need to upgrade to a new "4K" lens?

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It will work fine having a 1.33 lens. You will not be using the full panel but, then again, you won't use full panel on 16x9 either. The JVC can scale for either lens type, and the cost to get those extra pixels is going to be quite exorbitant. I suspect you will still be better off with the lens than zooming, if you are already used to the lens effects.
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post #14 of 33 Old 08-21-2019, 09:43 AM
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It will work fine having a 1.33 lens. You will not be using the full panel but, then again, you won't use full panel on 16x9 either.
I think his question (which is still my question also) is not about the stretch factor, but about whether the UH480's optics can resolve 4k.

Quote:
The JVC can scale for either lens type,
Yes and no. JVC projectors have scaling modes to properly stretch 2.35:1 material whether using the 16:9 portion of the panel and a 1.33x lens, or the full 17:9 panel and a Paladin DCR lens. That much is true. However, when you watch 16:9 content, the projector only has a pillarbox mode designed for 16:9/1.33x. It will not properly scale 16:9 content when using the 17:9/DCR combination. All 16:9 content will appear slightly stretched.

This is especially problematic given that Panamorph's current philosophy is that the lens should remain in place all the time. They don't even offer a lens sled to slide it out of place for 16:9 anymore.

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post #15 of 33 Old 08-21-2019, 09:54 AM
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Prior to upgrading to a 4k model, I had an older JVC projector ceiling mounted with a Panamorph lens sled to move the UH480 in and out of place when needed. For the first several weeks of owning an NX7 projector, I left it shelf mounted while I was testing it and exclusively used the Zoom Method for CIH with no lens.

This past weekend, I finally moved the projector up to the ceiling mount. Although the NX7 will fit on the old sled mounting plate, the projector is much larger than older JVC models and extends further forward. The only way to attach the lens is to fit it inside the projector's lens recess. Although this works, it means that I can no longer slide it in and out of place. It has to be a permanent installation.

I haven't put the lens on yet. I will try to test that sometime during the next week, and make my determination about whether the UH480 works well with a 4k projector or not.

This projector works great even with Zoom Method, so I won't feel too disappointed if I decide not to keep the lens. Selling the lens would help me to recoup some of the cost of the projector. However, if I go that route, I'll have to unmount the projector again and put up a different plate so that I can sell the slide as well. That's a little frustrating (this projector is heavy!!), but I knew what I was getting into when I put it up this weekend.

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post #16 of 33 Old 08-21-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
I think his question (which is still my question also) is not about the stretch factor, but about whether the UH480's optics can resolve 4k.



Yes and no. JVC projectors have scaling modes to properly stretch 2.35:1 material whether using the 16:9 portion of the panel and a 1.33x lens, or the full 17:9 panel and a Paladin DCR lens. That much is true. However, when you watch 16:9 content, the projector only has a pillarbox mode designed for 16:9/1.33x. It will not properly scale 16:9 content when using the 17:9/DCR combination. All 16:9 content will appear slightly stretched.

This is especially problematic given that Panamorph's current philosophy is that the lens should remain in place all the time. They don't even offer a lens sled to slide it out of place for 16:9 anymore.
Really great points. I had asked months ago about the built in support and had come away thinking all was good, but I guess I was not specific enough. I am disappointed by the previous generation's scaling as well, given the inability to exceed 4k30. Thanks for the clarification! Personally I think the VC design of current Panamorphs is ridiculous and would never use one when there are alternatives still being produced.

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The only way to attach the lens is to fit it inside the projector's lens recess. Although this works, it means that I can no longer slide it in and out of place. It has to be a permanent installation.
Is this because you get focus or vignette issues with the lens further out? That is a real bummer. Wonder if a Schneider Kino-Torsion lens control can overcome that.
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post #17 of 33 Old 08-21-2019, 01:05 PM
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Is this because you get focus or vignette issues with the lens further out? That is a real bummer. Wonder if a Schneider Kino-Torsion lens control can overcome that.
The mounting plate I have doesn't allow for moving the lens forward or backward, just side to side. The distance from the projector lens is fixed.

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post #18 of 33 Old 08-21-2019, 02:01 PM
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The mounting plate I have doesn't allow for moving the lens forward or backward, just side to side. The distance from the projector lens is fixed.
I meant why do you have to set it back in the lens recess?
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post #19 of 33 Old 08-21-2019, 09:16 PM
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I meant why do you have to set it back in the lens recess?
Because the current JVC projectors are much larger than older models and extend further forward from the mounting holes. The mounting plate I have was designed for the older models. The only way to physically fit the lens on with the NX7 projector is to put it inside the recess.







Previously I had a lot more depth behind the slide mechanism.

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post #20 of 33 Old 08-21-2019, 10:15 PM
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Because the current JVC projectors are much larger than older models and extend further forward from the mounting holes. The mounting plate I have was designed for the older models. The only way to physically fit the lens on with the NX7 projector is to put it inside the recess.


Previously I had a lot more depth behind the slide mechanism.
Ah, I see. You should be able to increase the offset with an additional plate attached either between the lens mount and slide or between slide and projector plate. Either metal or plywood would do the job. 3-4 mm aluminum would be easy to work with.
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post #21 of 33 Old 08-22-2019, 09:35 AM
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Ah, I see. You should be able to increase the offset with an additional plate attached either between the lens mount and slide or between slide and projector plate. Either metal or plywood would do the job. 3-4 mm aluminum would be easy to work with.
I'm not terribly handy with that sort of thing and I really don't want to risk screwing it up and potentially causing either the projector or the lens to fall.

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post #22 of 33 Old 08-23-2019, 10:19 AM
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Last night, I watched Into the Spider-Verse on Ultra HD Blu-ray using Zoom Method CIH. Afterward, I mounted the Panamorph UH480 and rewatched the first few scenes of the movie.

Results are pretty good so far. I have a small amount of pincushion but it's pretty minimal and nothing I can't live with. The good news is that the UH480 appears to pass 4k detail just fine. The stippled, dot art texture of the animation came through very clearly.

It'd been a while since I last used the lens (more than a year at this point), and I'd forgotten that it adds a sort of silkiness to the image that's hard to quantify but is very appealing.

I was only able to play around with it for about half an hour, though. That wasn't enough time to judge the impact of scaling all 16:9 content down to pillarbox it in the center of the screen. As mentioned above, the lens has to be a permanent installation. I can't slide it out of place for 16:9 anymore.

I'm also concerned about what to do with 2.0:1 and 2.2:1 ratios, which are extremely common on streaming shows these days. Short of buying a Radiance Pro, which is way out of my budget, it appears I'll need to scale down to 16:9 and then optically zoom up for CIH, which isn't ideal.

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post #23 of 33 Old 08-26-2019, 03:50 PM
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Last night, I watched Into the Spider-Verse on Ultra HD Blu-ray using Zoom Method CIH. Afterward, I mounted the Panamorph UH480 and rewatched the first few scenes of the movie.

Results are pretty good so far. I have a small amount of pincushion but it's pretty minimal and nothing I can't live with. The good news is that the UH480 appears to pass 4k detail just fine. The stippled, dot art texture of the animation came through very clearly.

It'd been a while since I last used the lens (more than a year at this point), and I'd forgotten that it adds a sort of silkiness to the image that's hard to quantify but is very appealing.

I was only able to play around with it for about half an hour, though. That wasn't enough time to judge the impact of scaling all 16:9 content down to pillarbox it in the center of the screen. As mentioned above, the lens has to be a permanent installation. I can't slide it out of place for 16:9 anymore.

I'm also concerned about what to do with 2.0:1 and 2.2:1 ratios, which are extremely common on streaming shows these days. Short of buying a Radiance Pro, which is way out of my budget, it appears I'll need to scale down to 16:9 and then optically zoom up for CIH, which isn't ideal.
Good to hear that the image with the UH-480 looks good. Bad to hear how difficult it is to get everything dialed in to watch between the different aspect ratios. Guess I will keep my Runco LS-5 for a little while longer.
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post #24 of 33 Old 08-26-2019, 04:26 PM
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It'd been a while since I last used the lens (more than a year at this point), and I'd forgotten that it adds a sort of silkiness to the image that's hard to quantify but is very appealing.
I am sure it is technically distortion, but it looks more like film, right?
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post #25 of 33 Old 08-27-2019, 06:33 AM
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I may be having second thoughts about the lens. When I watched M:I Fallout doing Zoom Method, I thought the IMAX footage at the end was jaw-dropping in its sharpness and clarity. Last night I rewatched the scene with the Panamorph and wasn't quite as stunned. It certainly still looked good, but it didn't have quite the same WOW factor. The extra glass and scaling may be rolling off a little high-frequency detail.

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post #26 of 33 Old 09-03-2019, 11:40 AM
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After another week of testing, I've removed the UH480 from my projector. I was watching The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance on Netflix and was not terribly impressed with the picture quality. Once I removed the lens, the picture was immediately improved. The lens definitely caused a discernible loss of detail from 4k.

My final conclusion is that the UH480 lens is NOT up to the challenge of passing 4k HDR, unfortunately.

I would love to try a Paladin lens, but it's not in my budget at the moment.
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post #27 of 33 Old 10-25-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
After another week of testing, I've removed the UH480 from my projector. I was watching The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance on Netflix and was not terribly impressed with the picture quality. Once I removed the lens, the picture was immediately improved. The lens definitely caused a discernible loss of detail from 4k.

My final conclusion is that the UH480 lens is NOT up to the challenge of passing 4k HDR, unfortunately.

I would love to try a Paladin lens, but it's not in my budget at the moment.

Thanks for reporting on this Josh.


I have the UH480 and the remote controlled slide, with my JVC RS600.


I haven't used my lens/sled in ages, as zooming was generally suiting me fine (and also since I got back in to two channel music listening, my "high end" 2 channel speakers set up often limits my screen width). I've hung on to the lens/sled "just in case."


But I plan to finally, after all these years, re-wire so I can run UHD signals to my JVC. I don't actually know if my model (the first one that could do the faux-4K) actually has a rescale for anamorphic mode or not. But seeing your posts makes me think I won't bother.
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post #28 of 33 Old 10-25-2019, 10:51 AM
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Is panamorph UH-480.up to. The 4k challenge jvc 5/7N

Josh, thx for the updates on true 4K ability of the UH-480.
I’ll continue to use it with my RS400, but when I upgrade to 4K PJ its .... sniff sniff .... zoom time for me also.

Then I’ll sell as a bundle my RS400+UH-480.

Rich - the faux4K RS series does have anamorphic zoom and I use it all the time.

This also means my next screen .... sniff sniff , won’t be curved like my current one either. Heck I’ll save that screen and bundle it also.


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post #29 of 33 Old 10-25-2019, 11:58 AM
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In case anyone was curious, the lens sled for the older UH480 will not work with the new Paladin lens. The Paladin is smaller in size than the UH480 and the old bracket won't hold it, nor will the Paladin's own bracket attach to the sled in a way that you can position the Paladin properly in front of the projector's lens.

Believe me, I tried!

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post #30 of 33 Old 10-29-2019, 10:11 AM
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I have the UH380, which is I believe one model behind the 480.

I tested it with the 4k UHD of Toy Story 4, which really is a fabulous demo disc. I did not see any discernible difference using the lens vs. not using the lens. I did see a shift in the color, but that seems easily corrected.]

I even did a hacky split view with the lens half on/off and didn't see a difference.

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