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post #1 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I want a 2.35:1 screen but projector is 16:9

Hi all,


Really hoping I am posting this in the right place. Sorry I am a bit new to this. I am planning on purchasing either of two (currently undecided) 4k UST laser projectors: the Dell S718QL or LG HU85LA. I want a fixed 2.35:1 rear projection screen because I want the entire screen filled for the majority of movies I watch. When I watch TV shows in 16:9 I don't mind black bars on the sides, and I don't mind the image being smaller. Is this too much to ask of these projectors? I don't want to buy a 16:9 screen and have my movies shrunk to fit the screen, and my TV shows larger than my movies.


Steven
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
Hi all,


Really hoping I am posting this in the right place. Sorry I am a bit new to this. I am planning on purchasing either of two (currently undecided) 4k UST laser projectors: the Dell S718QL or LG HU85LA. I want a fixed 2.35:1 rear projection screen because I want the entire screen filled for the majority of movies I watch. When I watch TV shows in 16:9 I don't mind black bars on the sides, and I don't mind the image being smaller. Is this too much to ask of these projectors? I don't want to buy a 16:9 screen and have my movies shrunk to fit the screen, and my TV shows larger than my movies.


Steven
DLPs generally lack the placement flexibility and lens controls to do this without an anamorphic lens. Which is several thousand dollars.

What is your budget, desired 2.35:1 screen size and maximum projector to screen distance?

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post #3 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I'd like to keep the projection budget under 10k if possible. Given the Dell and LG are roughly 5k, an anamorphic lens shouldn't be too far of a stretch. I've never heard of that term before.


I am looking at 4k laser USTs because my rear projection "room" is only 36 inches deep. Ideally, I would use a 113x48 screen that the Dell would project onto (Dells states max throw of 130" 16:9 diagonal, so 113" is as wide as it gets unfortunately) for movies, and for 16:9 content there would black bars on the side. I can rig motorized panels to cover the black bars as well.


My actual room is fairly large, 23x30, unfortunately a ceiling mounted projector is not an option...
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
Thanks. I'd like to keep the projection budget under 10k if possible. Given the Dell and LG are roughly 5k, an anamorphic lens shouldn't be too far of a stretch. I've never heard of that term before.


I am looking at 4k laser USTs because my rear projection "room" is only 36 inches deep. Ideally, I would use a 113x48 screen that the Dell would project onto (Dells states max throw of 130" 16:9 diagonal, so 113" is as wide as it gets unfortunately) for movies, and for 16:9 content there would black bars on the side. I can rig motorized panels to cover the black bars as well.


My actual room is fairly large, 23x30, unfortunately a ceiling mounted projector is not an option...
You would need to research on whether these units support an anamorphic lens, but with 3' to work with I doubt they would work well with a lens anyway. Lenses generally want a longer throw so that the picture is tightly focused and hitting the center of the lens.

Can you shelf mount on the wall? If so then that opens up other options with far superior picture quality to the DLPs.
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
Thanks. I'd like to keep the projection budget under 10k if possible. Given the Dell and LG are roughly 5k, an anamorphic lens shouldn't be too far of a stretch. I've never heard of that term before.


I am looking at 4k laser USTs because my rear projection "room" is only 36 inches deep. Ideally, I would use a 113x48 screen that the Dell would project onto (Dells states max throw of 130" 16:9 diagonal, so 113" is as wide as it gets unfortunately) for movies, and for 16:9 content there would black bars on the side. I can rig motorized panels to cover the black bars as well.


My actual room is fairly large, 23x30, unfortunately a ceiling mounted projector is not an option...
As far as I know there are no A-lens to suit a RP UST projector. Most A-lens work best with longer throw FP projector setups.

The best you can do if you are set on RP is to get some scaling software in a device or use a HTPC method and set your projector up as large as you need for the width and then just use the pixels you need for the lesser AR.

I would suggest doing a lot of reading on these forums and educate yourself fully before making a bunch of purchases you might not be happy with.

And Welcome to the forum.

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post #6 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
Thanks. I'd like to keep the projection budget under 10k if possible. Given the Dell and LG are roughly 5k, an anamorphic lens shouldn't be too far of a stretch. I've never heard of that term before.


I am looking at 4k laser USTs because my rear projection "room" is only 36 inches deep. Ideally, I would use a 113x48 screen that the Dell would project onto (Dells states max throw of 130" 16:9 diagonal, so 113" is as wide as it gets unfortunately) for movies, and for 16:9 content there would black bars on the side. I can rig motorized panels to cover the black bars as well.


My actual room is fairly large, 23x30, unfortunately a ceiling mounted projector is not an option...
You can't do an anamorphic lens with a UST anyway, so you can throw that out, but you might get a Lumagen RadiancePro in your budget and do all your scaling with that. You'll be throwing a lot of light away, but if you can live with that, it is an option. You'll need a lot of velvet in your "room".

Out of curiosity, why can't you allocate more space in that massive room for a false wall and more throw, perhaps with a conventional mirror setup?
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions all, seems like a great community here. I eventually want to start some sort of build thread for this project. I'm still tearing out the walls and ceilings to the studs and removing all the existing electrical etc. so nothing interesting happening yet. For a few who asked, I've attached a quick sketch of my intended space. It seems like a large room until you start measuring out what needs to fit so everyone can enjoy it. A dedicated theater room would be amazing, but this space will need to serve multipurpose duties with a bar area in the back.


If you look at the bar area in the back, this section actually will have a dropped ceiling down to about 8 feet (I could make it as low as 7 if needed) where I could potentially hide a standard front projector. The issue is I don't think I could project an image low enough for comfortable viewing without the bar-height seated row getting in the way of the projector. From my calcs, the bottom of my screen needs to be 22" above the floor so eye height at the couch is roughly 1/3 screen height.


The RadiancePro 4242 looks interesting! I am going to continue researching this option. At about 5k pricepoint, I am wondering what the advantage of this is over just buying a second projector dedicated for 2.35:1 viewing. Wow the world of movie projection sure has changed a lot in 10 years.
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-03-2019, 10:39 PM
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The pixel-shifting DLP "4k" projectors have really, really, really, really poor contrast. If you at all value to possibility of seeing the color black in an image (say, perhaps watching a sci-fi movie in outer space), forget about it. You'll get a soupy gray at best.

They also typically do not have enough lens shift or zoom range to accommodate Constant Image Height. Just really poor projectors for this usage all around.

If you want a projector, you really need to figure a way out of the extreme short throw problem. You say that ceiling mounting is not an option. Is that due to an architectural issue, or spousal acceptance? From your sketch, I don't think shelf mounting behind your seats will work due to the bar area.

If nothing else works, you may ultimately be better off with the largest flat panel you can afford. That won't get you anywhere near 130", and CIH is a dead issue, but sometimes you have to live with the limitations you have.
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-04-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
If you look at the bar area in the back, this section actually will have a dropped ceiling down to about 8 feet (I could make it as low as 7 if needed) where I could potentially hide a standard front projector. The issue is I don't think I could project an image low enough for comfortable viewing without the bar-height seated row getting in the way of the projector. From my calcs, the bottom of my screen needs to be 22" above the floor so eye height at the couch is roughly 1/3 screen height.


The RadiancePro 4242 looks interesting! I am going to continue researching this option. At about 5k pricepoint, I am wondering what the advantage of this is over just buying a second projector dedicated for 2.35:1 viewing. Wow the world of movie projection sure has changed a lot in 10 years.

The 1/3 of screen height rule is a suggestion, often adjusted for real-world sight lines. A LITTLE higher won't make much difference to the viewer but can make a huge difference on projector placement.

Can you do another sketch with a side profile of the room showing expected/available ceiling height? You probably have an option for a soffit mounted projector that you may not have considered. Are you set on the layout or could you turn it to put the screen on a different wall?

I suggested the Radiance Pro as a solution to the problem you presented, but I agree with Josh that the DLP projector is too much of a compromise for that kind of budget. You would indeed be better off with a better projector rather than spending half your budget on an external scaler. You'll still need a player/streamer and audio equipment to finish the room, unless you already have those on hand.
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-04-2019, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I do have some options of rearranging the room at this point, but building that media closet in that location is the most feasible way for me to hide dual 18" cap 2400's. According to my better half the only thing worse than a projector in plain sight is two huge subwoofers in plain sight. I'll start working on some more renderings of the space to post. I have some drawings mocked up in SketchUp that might be useful.

Based on some triangulation, I could actually mount something like a JVC NX7 all the way in the back wall where this is a drop ceiling above the bar at a projection lens height of 9.75 feet, and clear all the heads at the bar seating area. Big problem with that is the structural beams the image runs into. I am a structural engineer and can move beam locations but I'm not sure I can move them enough. I have not submitted plans to the city yet so I still have some time.
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-04-2019, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Appreciate the insight Josh. My reason for leaning towards 4k UST projection was this person's youtube video showing the Dell S718QL in action:




Is this video very misleading? I read another comment somewhere where another owner of a Dell S718QL was close in image quality to their OLED. If this projector seriously underperforms as much as you are stating, I may have to go back to the drawing board with this room....
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post #12 of 20 Old 09-04-2019, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry forgot to post the actual video of the Dell S718QL:


https://youtu.be/ZyTtLorsRR0
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-04-2019, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
Appreciate the insight Josh. My reason for leaning towards 4k UST projection was this person's youtube video showing the Dell S718QL in action:

Is this video very misleading? I read another comment somewhere where another owner of a Dell S718QL was close in image quality to their OLED. If this projector seriously underperforms as much as you are stating, I may have to go back to the drawing board with this room....
I haven't seen that specific projector, but my experience with Faux-K DLP projectors is that they have pretty terrible picture quality for movies. The contrast of current DLP chips has taken a significant step back even from 1080p DLP chips from ten years ago. I'm not aware of Texas Instruments improving their chips specifically for Dell.

I would not put much stock in someone's video on YouTube. Keep in mind that what you're seeing is what that person's camera pointing at the screen is capable of capturing. That's very easily manipulated by adjusting the camera's aperture settings.

A big question here is usage. If you're going for a 2.35:1 screen, I assume that your primary interest is watching movies. If, however, your intent is to create a lounge area where you watch sports with a bunch of friends with some lights on, that's a different ballgame, so the speak. A DLP projector might work fine for that.
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post #14 of 20 Old 09-04-2019, 11:08 AM
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I haven't seen that specific projector, but my experience with Faux-K DLP projectors is that they have pretty terrible picture quality for movies. The contrast of current DLP chips has taken a significant step back even from 1080p DLP chips from ten years ago. I'm not aware of Texas Instruments improving their chips specifically for Dell.

A big question here is usage. If you're going for a 2.35:1 screen, I assume that your primary interest is watching movies. If, however, your intent is to create a lounge area where you watch sports with a bunch of friends with some lights on, that's a different ballgame, so the speak. A DLP projector might work fine for that.
Josh is correct here. None of the XPR DLPs including the $9K BenQ are able to overcome the dismal contrast inherent in the current design. An NX7 would be in an entirely different league overall picture quality wise.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-05-2019, 07:38 AM
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Tearing the walls to studs + ceiling mount not an option

Those don't really seem to go with each other. Ceiling mount isn't difficult or dangerous.

From what I can figure... I think Josh's suggestion to get a big direct view set is going to be the answer that works best for you. The big sets these days can be very in expensive and they look quite nice and are almost easy to install.

-Brian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
According to my better half the only thing worse than a projector in plain sight is two huge subwoofers in plain sight
Is upgrading your partner not an option?

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post #17 of 20 Old 09-17-2019, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Burkhead View Post
According to my better half the only thing worse than a projector in plain sight is two huge subwoofers in plain sight
Is upgrading your partner not an option?

[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Haha that part is non-negotiable I’m told 😃.
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I just wanted to give a quick update. Thanks everyone for the helpful insights. After reading these posts and doing some intensive research that feels like there’s no end, I’ve come to a few conclusions:

1. My current display budget is woefully inadequate for my screen size and expectations. I’ll be continuing to save up for what I’m really looking for, and research in the meantime. Appreciate the suggestions for a TV but I’ve had a Panasonic ar100u in the somewhat distant past on a 150” 16:9 screen and there is no going back to TV’s for me. I’ll take a gigantic bright image with mediocre darks over a tiny 60 inch oled screen if that’s all my budget allows 😃

2. Short throw projection does not sound like a feasible option anymore after digging further and learning a bit more what I want. Luckily my ceilings are somewhat higher than normal, and with some good vertical shift and maybe a lumagen, I’ll be able to hide a projector in the back in its own silenced recessed space without heads getting in the way based on my triangulation calcs.

3. The actual projector I want does not exist, so I may build a space for two future projectors: in a perfect scenario something along the lines of a Sony vw5000 for movies along side a 4K 12000 lumen laser projector for tv shows and general watching with lights on. I’ll never be able to responsibly afford this kind of setup so I’m on a mission to see what’s the next best thing around the 20k -25k mark.
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post #19 of 20 Old 09-18-2019, 02:04 AM
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I hope it works out. When I got my first projector putting on the ceiling seemed crazy.

Of course I was 150 pounds and we were renting a one bedroom apartment at that time.

New projectors are quite a lot easier to work with.

I understand rejecting the TV idea if you have had a projector. I have used projectors since 1999 and I'm recently thinking of going to direct view just for the absolute contrast they offer. I really don't think you want 2 projectors but maybe you do.

I have a 2.35:1 screen and in my case my projector doesn't have lens memory nor do I use an anamorphic lens setup or video scaling processor. My default setup has curtains drawn on the sides to make a 16:9 screen and if I know a movie is scope without shifting AR it only takes a minute to set things up for the 2.35 presentation.

-Brian
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I hope it works out. When I got my first projector putting on the ceiling seemed crazy.

Of course I was 150 pounds and we were renting a one bedroom apartment at that time.

New projectors are quite a lot easier to work with.

I understand rejecting the TV idea if you have had a projector. I have used projectors since 1999 and I'm recently thinking of going to direct view just for the absolute contrast they offer. I really don't think you want 2 projectors but maybe you do.

I have a 2.35:1 screen and in my case my projector doesn't have lens memory nor do I use an anamorphic lens setup or video scaling processor. My default setup has curtains drawn on the sides to make a 16:9 screen and if I know a movie is scope without shifting AR it only takes a minute to set things up for the 2.35 presentation.

-Brian
Thanks Brian, I like your setup. I googled direct view and got lost for a few days in the world of seemless led panels. Great technology I think may be the future in 10+ years. When someone first mentioned lumagen here I thought the video processor could actually black out the top and bottom of the screen when watching a 2.39:1 movie, but upon further research it just puts up black bars that are still “lit”. My old setup was like yours, with a 16:9 screen and manual zoom, and when watching a scope format movie the black bars automatically populated, so I’m not sure what advantage the lumagen has there.

Those panamorph lens look really interesting though, I just hope I can get one to work with how much lens shift I’m going to need.
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