Please explain source resolutions and interaction with CIH Screen/PJ/Display/Processo - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 5 Old 01-07-2020, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Please explain source resolutions and interaction with CIH Screen/PJ/Display/Processo

I was hoping to find a sticky, or a good article explaining this for first timers embarking on CIH/A-Lens/2.35:1 screen ratios, but haven't been able to find cohesive and comprehensive answers. I'm trying to understand how to use the full resolution of my DMD chip in my projector, for all of my sources (blu ray player - model TBD, Apple TV 4K (with Kodi/MKV server), and an Xbox One X). I want to focus on the primary resolutions (2.35:1 and 1.78:1) and leave the inbetweens/multi aspect content aside for now.

Traditionally, those sources would plug in to my Integra DHC 80.6 processor via HDMI and then output in 16:9 to my 16:9 native display/projector. Then my anamorphic lens (Panamorph uh480) would slide over to stretch the image by 1.33x to get to the 2.35:1 ratio. In between this process some scaling needs to occur to fill the DMD chip at 16:9 resolution. My projector, Digital Projection Cine 400, has a TheatreScope aspect ratio that I think will work; however, I'm not certain if that's the case when the source resolution is 16:9.



After looking at that, it seems like it will work; however, since the projector is 1080p, it will request a 1080p source from the processor, and the ATV/BluRay/Xbox will serve up a 1080p source, but that will not allow for Dolby ATMOS to pass through, right? But can I add an HD Fury 4K Vertex inline from the Integra Processor, to the Display so that I am requesting a 4K/ATMOS signal, but down converting to at the HD Fury to 1080p. All scaling still being done by the projector. Is there a product that can do the scaling and the down conversion at the same place?

Am I missing anything for the 2.35:1 and 16:9 content? How do you handle the resolutions in between, like 1.85:1 and 2:1?

Thanks for the help.
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post #2 of 5 Old 01-07-2020, 10:00 AM
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Traditionally, those sources would plug in to my Integra DHC 80.6 processor via HDMI and then output in 16:9 to my 16:9 native display/projector. Then my anamorphic lens (Panamorph uh480) would slide over to stretch the image by 1.33x to get to the 2.35:1 ratio. In between this process some scaling needs to occur to fill the DMD chip at 16:9 resolution. My projector, Digital Projection Cine 400, has a TheatreScope aspect ratio that I think will work; however, I'm not certain if that's the case when the source resolution is 16:9.
16:9 is the aspect ratio, not the resolution. All consumer home video (whether HD or 4k Ultra HD) is authored in a 16:9 container. Letterboxing is encoded as part of the image if the content's aspect ratio is meant to be wider than 16:9.

If you want to watch 4k content but have an older 1080p projector, anything you feed into the projector has to be downconverted to 1080p/SDR before it gets there. Your projector is not compatible with either a 4k or HDR input signal. Once you've done that downconversion in the device of your choosing (whether a disc player or a video processor), the projector will see it as 1080p and will treat it like any other 1080p content it has ever played. Your "TheatreScope" vertical stretch mode should still work.

Quote:
After looking at that, it seems like it will work; however, since the projector is 1080p, it will request a 1080p source from the processor, and the ATV/BluRay/Xbox will serve up a 1080p source, but that will not allow for Dolby ATMOS to pass through, right?
Most standalone Ultra HD Blu-ray players will allow you to downconvert a 4k disc's resolution to 1080p while still passing Atmos. However, the quality of the conversion from HDR to SDR will vary wildly and you may wind up with a worse picture than just watching a standard 1080p Blu-ray (which may not have Atmos, unfortunately).

Streaming devices such as Apple TV will typically revert to the 1080p version of the content available after it handshakes with your 1080p projector, and that 1080p version will probably not have Atmos, as most studios have chosen to be jerks and made Atmos 4k exclusive.

I'm not sure what the XBox One X does.

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But can I add an HD Fury 4K Vertex inline from the Integra Processor, to the Display so that I am requesting a 4K/ATMOS signal, but down converting to at the HD Fury to 1080p. All scaling still being done by the projector. Is there a product that can do the scaling and the down conversion at the same place?
HDFury has a bunch of devices and their product descriptions are not written particularly clearly. I'm not an expert on which HDFury device does what, but it does appear that the 4K Vertex model should allow you to trick your source device into believing that it has handshaked with a 4k display, thus sending out the 4k version of the content with Atmos. The Vertex itself would then downconvert the video to 1080p/SDR (how well it does this, I cannot say) while passing on the Atmos to your receiver.

It would probably benefit you to follow an HDFury thread in the Video Processors forum to get more details on how the device works.

The 1080p signal that the Vertex outputs will be a standard 1920x1080 / 16:9 image. My understanding is that HDFury products do not offer aspect ratio control, so it will not do any vertical stretch for you. If your projector has that feature, it should still work.

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Am I missing anything for the 2.35:1 and 16:9 content? How do you handle the resolutions in between, like 1.85:1 and 2:1?
Again, these are aspect ratios, not resolutions. Most "HD" content is 1920x1080 resolution (though there are lesser forms of HD, such as 720p). "4K Ultra HD" content is 3840x2160. Both of those resolutions are natively 16:9. If the aspect ratio of the content is something other than 16:9, letterbox or pillarbox bars are encoded as part of the image to fill out the 16:9 container.

Aspect ratios that fall in between 16:9 and 2.35:1 are, unfortunately, problematic when using an anamorphic lens. From your post, it sounds like you have the UH480 on a lens sled. Your best option is to slide the lens out of the way and project the image as 16:9 with letterboxing, then use the projector's optical zoom to enlarge the picture and let the letterbox bars spill off the screen onto your wall. This is essentially the "Zoom Method" of CIH as if you didn't have the lens at all. You would only engage the lens for 2.35:1 or wider content.

Note that the Panamorph UH480 lens you have is fine for 1080p display, but if you ever upgrade to a 4k projector you will also need to upgrade to a newer Paladin lens. The UH480 cannot pass 4k detail. Regrettably, Panamorph's current philosophy is that the lens should remain in place at all times. They do not offer a lens sled for the Paladin models, nor can those lenses fit on the old UH480 sled (trust me, I tried).
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post #3 of 5 Old 01-07-2020, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Fantastic response @josh_z or @Josh Z . Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough. It seems my logic is sound for now, assuming the HD Fury downconvert quality is at least palatable if not enviable. Disappointing news on the gap content, and use of the lens/full DMD of the PJ. Got it on the need for a Paladin if I go 4K/8K in the future. I'm hoping that's 3-5 years down the road, but who knows. I got this cineslide/UH480 out of a demo room, and it's like brand new. I'll likely get a better 1080p projector before going with a 4K, since my screen size is....large (194" wide).

Do you think it's worth going with a curved screen because of the pin cushion effect?
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post #4 of 5 Old 01-07-2020, 12:41 PM
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Do you think it's worth going with a curved screen because of the pin cushion effect?
It's not something I generally recommend. Others may have different opinions.

Pincushion is worse at shorter throw distances. The further back you can mount the projector, the less severe the pincushion will be. Once you find a good compromise distance where the pincushion is minimized, you can zoom the image up a small amount to let the curved edges spill off your screen. So long as picture geometry within the image isn't visibly distorted, you shouldn't notice the pincushion after that.
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post #5 of 5 Old 01-08-2020, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
HDFury has a bunch of devices and their product descriptions are not written particularly clearly. I'm not an expert on which HDFury device does what, but it does appear that the 4K Vertex model should allow you to trick your source device into believing that it has handshaked with a 4k display, thus sending out the 4k version of the content with Atmos. The Vertex itself would then downconvert the video to 1080p/SDR (how well it does this, I cannot say) while passing on the Atmos to your receiver.

It would probably benefit you to follow an HDFury thread in the Video Processors forum to get more details on how the device works.
Was able to get great support from the HD Fury Team in their thread. The device I need is the Diva, and just hope there are not handshake issues between the sources and the AVR, because the Diva will only be downconverting from the AVR to the PJ. The device is less than a year old, so I guess I'm glad I've waited this long! Thanks again @Josh Z
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