Is old panamorph lenses enough for 4k projectors? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 03:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Is old panamorph lenses enough for 4k projectors?

What do you think about the combination of adding panamorphs older lenses like the u480 to a the new Sony 4k projector or to Epson's 5050ub faux 4k projector, does the lens take away the benefits of 4k HDR, I read in a blog post that going the zoom options resulted in better picture quality, have you tried both options?

/Challe
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post #2 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Challe77 View Post
What do you think about the combination of adding panamorphs older lenses like the u480 to a the new Sony 4k projector or to Epson's 5050ub faux 4k projector, does the lens take away the benefits of 4k HDR, I read in a blog post that going the zoom options resulted in better picture quality, have you tried both options?
The UH480 cannot pass 4k detail. You need a newer (and more expensive) Panamorph Paladin lens.

Josh Z
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post #3 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 10:46 AM
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The UH480 cannot pass 4k detail. You need a newer (and more expensive) Panamorph Paladin lens.
I’m just curious knowing a little about optics myself.

I’m assuming something comes thru the lens it is not that 4k detail will not pass rather it will have some degree of degradation caused by the degree of purity of the lens system. I would also assume this same degree of degradation was there when the lens was used on a 1080 resolution image, so the edges and spacing of those pixels would have been equally disturbed by the lack of purity. In effect it wasn’t as bad at a pixel level because pixels are double the size.

My question is because it is widely accepted that no one sits adequately close in the era of 4k now to be able to discern a pixel what real downside is there in practical terms to viewing an image produced by one of these lens?

It makes me think about how years ago we used to soft focus or more recently with the 4k pixel shifters the pattern is overlapping.

I know it is a marketing point but is there some real life testing that can be referenced?

Bud
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post #4 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 11:00 AM
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My question is because it is widely accepted that no one sits adequately close in the era of 4k now to be able to discern a pixel what real downside is there in practical terms to viewing an image produced by one of these lens?

It makes me think about how years ago we used to soft focus or more recently with the 4k pixel shifters the pattern is overlapping.

I know it is a marketing point but is there some real life testing that can be referenced?
I used the UH480 with my JVC NX7 and really wanted the lens to work, but it made 4k content I watched visibly softer and duller than not using the lens at all.

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post #5 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 12:43 PM
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I used the UH480 with my JVC NX7 and really wanted the lens to work, but it made 4k content I watched visibly softer and duller than not using the lens at all.
Thanks,

When you used to use it with a 1080p projector it looked the same with the lens and without?

Bud
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post #6 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 12:53 PM
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When you used to use it with a 1080p projector it looked the same with the lens and without?
Yes, the UH480 worked fine with a 1080p projector. I used it with my last projector for many years.

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post #7 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 01:08 PM
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I don’t doubt your review. I just am really wondering what the science is behind it. It is logical putting any additional glass between a projector and the screen at absolute best can only maintain the quality the projector can make on its own and likely as nothing is perfect will have to have some negative effect. What is odd is that that can be selective on how it reacts with one light source and not another.

I wonder if it has something to do with the expanded color gamut of 4k and not really the resolution?

Bud
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post #8 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 02:42 PM
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I believe my ISCO IIIL also softens a little, even when focused, but I find it a pleasant effect as it makes the image that much more like film rather than obviously digital.


There is an artificial sharpness effect created by the existence of pitch between pixels. Like introducing noise tricks you into thinking the picture is sharper... I think a lens may reduce that, losing the illusion of sharpness.

At least that is what helps me sleep at night, not having a Paladin.

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post #9 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 03:40 PM
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I believe my ISCO IIIL also softens a little, even when focused, but I find it a pleasant effect as it makes the image that much more like film rather than obviously digital.


There is an artificial sharpness effect created by the existence of pitch between pixels. Like introducing noise tricks you into thinking the picture is sharper... I think a lens may reduce that, losing the illusion of sharpness.

At least that is what helps me sleep at night, not having a Paladin.
What you are describing is really what I like about projection well done and that is recreating with digital media and equipment an image that is presented as film-like.

For years and years the goal was to create a film-like setting. I see that changing somewhat with 4k HDR and what I keep reading about expectations for HT and there is now some expectations for what we used to call plasma-like.

I love the images off these new flat panel TVs they are like a glossy photo and are real eye candy, but on the other hand as nice and perfect as they look for TV they don’t remind me at all of a theater experience.

Bud
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post #10 of 12 Old 02-04-2020, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottAvery View Post
I believe my ISCO IIIL also softens a little, even when focused, but I find it a pleasant effect as it makes the image that much more like film rather than obviously digital..
^ for the bold part I was going to say "Those are fighting words, sir!" but I do have to agree with you on the second part. The lens gives it a more film like look but I do not think it softens the image "one-damned-bit!".

I have looked at the 4k QBF test image as close to 1" away and I cannot see one bit of softening on my screen. But I did find that one corner of my screen is not absolutely plumb as it goes soft just as it gets to the corner. I loosened the screen and I fixed it but could never get it to stick. Can't see it past 6" away so I drank a shot, or two, of bourbon and totally forgot about it. Until just now...thanks for opening that wound.
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post #11 of 12 Old 02-05-2020, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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If you are using the zoom method instead does it matter what color the walls has, I'm thinking projecting black bars on a white wall might look distracting?
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post #12 of 12 Old 02-05-2020, 08:29 AM
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If you are using the zoom method instead does it matter what color the walls has, I'm thinking projecting black bars on a white wall might look distracting?
Dark colored walls will do a better job of absorbing the letterbox bars, yes. If painting isn't an option, consider hanging/mounting some black velvet fabric around your screen.
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Josh Z
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