20 foot wide screen - how close? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By TSHA222
  • 1 Post By Greyimporter
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 04-24-2020, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TSHA222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: barely within my means
Posts: 1,193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 76
20 foot wide screen - how close?

I haven't posted in way too long because coming here reminds me that I am way too far behind on my new house build. Can't blame the general contractor because I am he... Anyway, I am finally at the point where I am ready to pour my floor. Theater room is 21 foot wide, 30 foot long with the ceiling height varying from 9 feet at the back of the room to 12 feet at the screen. I could care less about any row but the one I'll be siting in because I'm just a stingy bastard so for the the primary seat, is 20' away too close, too far? What say you? The primary seating location will determine the rest of the room seating layout.

Thanks
TSHA222 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 04-24-2020, 03:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
DuaneAA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, MN
Posts: 854
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post
I haven't posted in way too long because coming here reminds me that I am way too far behind on my new house build. Can't blame the general contractor because I am he... Anyway, I am finally at the point where I am ready to pour my floor. Theater room is 21 foot wide, 30 foot long with the ceiling height varying from 9 feet at the back of the room to 12 feet at the screen. I could care less about any row but the one I'll be siting in because I'm just a stingy bastard so for the the primary seat, is 20' away too close, too far? What say you? The primary seating location will determine the rest of the room seating layout.

Thanks
Holy Cow! What projector are you planning to use to light up a screen that large?

If you are planning to use a 2.35:1 screen optimized for wide-screen movies, the screen height would be 20/2.35 = 8.5 feet. I think about two x the screen height is optimum or about seventeen feet. Others will probably say closer or further depending on personal preference.
DuaneAA is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 04-24-2020, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TSHA222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: barely within my means
Posts: 1,193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 76
My current screen is 16' wide scope (1.6 gain I believe). Believe it or not, I use an Epson 5040 with ISCO III lens. The Epson was a placeholder for a Digital Projection 3 Chip DLP that went out and it really does look better than it has any right to. I have no idea what I'll end up with in the new room. I will retain the ISCO III and will be buying an Epson 6050 faux K for an outdoor theater. I know that I can throw that Epson in there until I decide what to get. I am doing so much research right now with the down time and I have about 6 months or so until I will be in the house. Not an easy decision at all. Copy on the 17 feet distance. I think I've got closer to 20 feet now in my sketchup design. I'll play around with that 17' row and see how the rest of the room would lay out. thanks!

Last edited by TSHA222; 04-24-2020 at 06:17 PM.
TSHA222 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 04-25-2020, 05:37 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,436
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2426 Post(s)
Liked: 1289
I agree with @DuaneAA and my preference for a big theater like you are planning with a 2.4:1 screen would be 2x the screen height and I would make that my second row primary seat. This is what Rob Hahn did and he mainly uses his second or third row and in his case the first row was to lend the feeling of sitting in the middle of the theater like he would in a commercial theater.

My reason for doing it is I would then use the front row for IMAX immersion as more and more of these IMAX movies are making it to the home market. I don’t know what you will use your theater for, but IMO some sporting events that will be 1.77:1 will also play well at that immersion level something around 1.5x screen height. This is a good way to justify the first row. In a 3plus row home setting. The back rows will be great for those that like less immersion.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
post #5 of 13 Old 04-25-2020, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TSHA222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: barely within my means
Posts: 1,193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I agree with @DuaneAA and my preference for a big theater like you are planning with a 2.4:1 screen would be 2x the screen height and I would make that my second row primary seat. This is what Rob Hahn did and he mainly uses his second or third row and in his case the first row was to lend the feeling of sitting in the middle of the theater like he would in a commercial theater.

My reason for doing it is I would then use the front row for IMAX immersion as more and more of these IMAX movies are making it to the home market. I don’t know what you will use your theater for, but IMO some sporting events that will be 1.77:1 will also play well at that immersion level something around 1.5x screen height. This is a good way to justify the first row. In a 3plus row home setting. The back rows will be great for those that like less immersion.
Thanks for the reply. What I've come up with based on necessary space between rows and the fact that the back row will actually be a bar top and bar stools is 4ish rows with the bar stool row at app. 28 feet back, the seating just in front of that at 22 feet, the primary row 17 1/2 feet back and the very front row (only for sports and overflow) at 11 or 12 feet back. I am only doing theater recliners on the primary row with loveseats or side by side sofas on the other rows. I attached pics of a couple of angles. Not professionally done but I think a monkey could learn Sketchup.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	angle two.jpg
Views:	77
Size:	277.4 KB
ID:	2716212   Click image for larger version

Name:	angle one.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	257.1 KB
ID:	2716214  
DuaneAA likes this.
TSHA222 is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 04-25-2020, 10:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,436
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2426 Post(s)
Liked: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post
Thanks for the reply. What I've come up with based on necessary space between rows and the fact that the back row will actually be a bar top and bar stools is 4ish rows with the bar stool row at app. 28 feet back, the seating just in front of that at 22 feet, the primary row 17 1/2 feet back and the very front row (only for sports and overflow) at 11 or 12 feet back. I am only doing theater recliners on the primary row with loveseats or side by side sofas on the other rows. I attached pics of a couple of angles. Not professionally done but I think a monkey could learn Sketchup.
Looks good for you and 15 good friends. We have 4 seats in one row and 99% of the time only 2 are filled.

But everyone has different needs.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
post #7 of 13 Old 04-25-2020, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
TSHA222's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: barely within my means
Posts: 1,193
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Looks good for you and 15 good friends. We have 4 seats in one row and 99% of the time only 2 are filled.

But everyone has different needs.
Ha. I don't know fifteen people I like! There are six of us in the house so that main row will see the most use. But we are big football fans and have a few folks over from time to time for that. In my current theater, I have had as many as 23 at one time. That room has a three rows of actual movie theater seats (15 total) and two rows of recliners (10 total). I am not a fan of those for prolonged viewing so opting not to go with those this time.

Thanks again for the replies folks. I appreciate it.

Chris
TSHA222 is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 05-02-2020, 11:40 AM
Member
 
Greyimporter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 36
The last thing I'd want is to encourage other people to come and watch movies in my house. They can stay home if they want to watch TV...

I've got three recliners in mine and I'm thinking of getting some "out of order" signs printed up for two of them.

I currently have a 17ft wide screen. My only regret is that I didn't go larger. Even if I sit just 10ft away, it doesn't feel too large. I'm not sure where these rules for optimal seating distance for the screen height came from. They don't apply in my house though.

I'd test it out on the wall first and see what you like. I'd say that's more important than someone else's guidelines. We projector people tend to like larger screens than average Men.
Greyimporter is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 05-04-2020, 07:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jeahrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 4,538
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2411 Post(s)
Liked: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
The last thing I'd want is to encourage other people to come and watch movies in my house. They can stay home if they want to watch TV...

I've got three recliners in mine and I'm thinking of getting some "out of order" signs printed up for two of them.

I currently have a 17ft wide screen. My only regret is that I didn't go larger. Even if I sit just 10ft away, it doesn't feel too large. I'm not sure where these rules for optimal seating distance for the screen height came from. They don't apply in my house though.

I'd test it out on the wall first and see what you like. I'd say that's more important than someone else's guidelines. We projector people tend to like larger screens than average Men.
Most people prefer to sit in the midpoint or just past it in a commercial theater. That's where the 2-3x screen height to seating distance ratio comes from (it approximates this). You would be one that likes to sit in the front row with that kind of seating distance, which is fine. It's always best to tape up screen dimensions and find your "sweet spot". But as a general rule of thumb the 2-3x distance is where most are happiest.

jeahrens is online now  
post #10 of 13 Old 05-04-2020, 01:54 PM
Member
 
Greyimporter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I definitely didn't like sitting in the front row at the theater but it's not the same thing.

Sitting in the middle at the theater was best because it put you in the middle of the screen. With the huge screens and tiered seating at the theater, sitting on the front row often had your head facing the bottom of the screen and having to look up to watch...

At home my screen goes from floor to ceiling which is around 7ft in my basement. Sitting on a regular couch puts my head nicely in the center. I can comfortably see a 17ft wide screen from way less than 2x screen height. 3x screen height would completely ruin the immersive effect of the large screen.

Moving back when the screen gets larger defeats the purpose imo.

I suspect that those kind of guidelines are just lingering from the old standard def CRT days where a screen didn't have to be that large before you started to see large gaps between scanlines. I haven't been bothered by a visible pixel structure from my seating position since before the 720p days so I'd say they're obsolete.

A screen would have to get far larger than my house would allow before I could see pixels from the couch on a 1080p or 4k projector.
Greyimporter is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 05-05-2020, 06:20 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 8,436
Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2426 Post(s)
Liked: 1289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
I definitely didn't like sitting in the front row at the theater but it's not the same thing.

Sitting in the middle at the theater was best because it put you in the middle of the screen. With the huge screens and tiered seating at the theater, sitting on the front row often had your head facing the bottom of the screen and having to look up to watch...

At home my screen goes from floor to ceiling which is around 7ft in my basement. Sitting on a regular couch puts my head nicely in the center. I can comfortably see a 17ft wide screen from way less than 2x screen height. 3x screen height would completely ruin the immersive effect of the large screen.

Moving back when the screen gets larger defeats the purpose imo.

I suspect that those kind of guidelines are just lingering from the old standard def CRT days where a screen didn't have to be that large before you started to see large gaps between scanlines. I haven't been bothered by a visible pixel structure from my seating position since before the 720p days so I'd say they're obsolete.

A screen would have to get far larger than my house would allow before I could see pixels from the couch on a 1080p or 4k projector.
I totally agree with your analysis of at home vs commercial theater immersion and screen placement. Also the tie in to older SMPTE and THX standards for large commercial venues and bringing those specs home in the days of IMAX immersion with amazing resolutions that no longer limit.

My first theater 20 years ago was 720p and it was in a low ceiling basement of 6’4” and I selected a 6’ tall image just 2 inches off the floor. Regular seating put my level eyes close to midway on the screen and gave the feeling of being way up in an IMAX stadium but still having a highly immersive image. nothing like front row seating in a conventional theater.

A lot of the rules or rules of thumb are based around multi rows and clearing the heads of those in rows in front of us with shallower sloped theaters. At home if you opt for a single row theater that I like best placing the image high only helps if you like serious reclined viewing. And again home seating does stuff commercial seating never did.

I went with a variable immersion method because as much as I like immersion and really like IMAX immersion, I don’t always like it and some of my guests don’t like or are not yet used to the immersion I like. Projectors do what TV can’t and that is change image size and location so why not use it for more than CIH. I watch with Immersion levels between 1.5 and 3.0 screen height seating distance. But the bulk of my solo viewing is 1.5 to around 2.2 SH SD.

As an example with scope movies I often add in some additional vertical offset down as I enjoy the movie more lower as it allows it to be shown a little more immersive.

After having all this freedom of size and placement with a stealth screen wall it would be very hard to go back to a fixed AR/Sized screen.

Bud
bud16415 is online now  
post #12 of 13 Old 05-05-2020, 07:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jeahrens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 4,538
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2411 Post(s)
Liked: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
I definitely didn't like sitting in the front row at the theater but it's not the same thing.

Sitting in the middle at the theater was best because it put you in the middle of the screen. With the huge screens and tiered seating at the theater, sitting on the front row often had your head facing the bottom of the screen and having to look up to watch...

At home my screen goes from floor to ceiling which is around 7ft in my basement. Sitting on a regular couch puts my head nicely in the center. I can comfortably see a 17ft wide screen from way less than 2x screen height. 3x screen height would completely ruin the immersive effect of the large screen.

Moving back when the screen gets larger defeats the purpose imo.

I suspect that those kind of guidelines are just lingering from the old standard def CRT days where a screen didn't have to be that large before you started to see large gaps between scanlines. I haven't been bothered by a visible pixel structure from my seating position since before the 720p days so I'd say they're obsolete.

A screen would have to get far larger than my house would allow before I could see pixels from the couch on a 1080p or 4k projector.
Sitting in the middle of the theater does indeed place you at an optimal viewing angle (because that's the engineered sweet spot), but it also positions the screen where it takes up so much of a persons field of view. And that's what I'm referring to, not the viewing angle. Sitting 10' from a 7' tall screen is going to be a lot more immersive than what the ratio is for a midpoint of a theater. The midpoint of a theater and the field of view the screen occupies is where the screen height to seating ratio approximation comes from. Most people don't care for the level of immersion you're experiencing, but it's all about preference. If you enjoy it, then its right for you.

jeahrens is online now  
post #13 of 13 Old 05-07-2020, 08:06 PM
Member
 
Greyimporter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
I totally agree with your analysis of at home vs commercial theater immersion and screen placement. Also the tie in to older SMPTE and THX standards for large commercial venues and bringing those specs home in the days of IMAX immersion with amazing resolutions that no longer limit.

My first theater 20 years ago was 720p and it was in a low ceiling basement of 6’4” and I selected a 6’ tall image just 2 inches off the floor. Regular seating put my level eyes close to midway on the screen and gave the feeling of being way up in an IMAX stadium but still having a highly immersive image. nothing like front row seating in a conventional theater.

A lot of the rules or rules of thumb are based around multi rows and clearing the heads of those in rows in front of us with shallower sloped theaters. At home if you opt for a single row theater that I like best placing the image high only helps if you like serious reclined viewing. And again home seating does stuff commercial seating never did.

I went with a variable immersion method because as much as I like immersion and really like IMAX immersion, I don’t always like it and some of my guests don’t like or are not yet used to the immersion I like. Projectors do what TV can’t and that is change image size and location so why not use it for more than CIH. I watch with Immersion levels between 1.5 and 3.0 screen height seating distance. But the bulk of my solo viewing is 1.5 to around 2.2 SH SD.

As an example with scope movies I often add in some additional vertical offset down as I enjoy the movie more lower as it allows it to be shown a little more immersive.

After having all this freedom of size and placement with a stealth screen wall it would be very hard to go back to a fixed AR/Sized screen.
Yeah there's definitely a time and a place and a mood and I also like to take advantage of the flexibility in screen size a projector offers.

Certain types of content benefit more than others obviously. One of the things I use a projector for is old arcade games. Playing a driving game on a floor to ceiling / wall to wall screen is an experience. It literally gives me a feeling of motion (and sometimes vertigo). I infinitely prefer it to "VR" aka a pair of tiny LCD screens in a plastic hat.

Anything with 3d is night and day better on an large immersive screen too. I find myself wondering if 3d is even working on a small screen.

Even with regular movies, I feel like I can see more detail on the larger screen. I use a 77" Oled in my living room. It has a great image with nice blacks etc but seeing movies at 15-17ft wide is next level.

I'd say the larger screen adds more to the experience than any other upgrade. It's the one thing that makes it feel like your at the theater (or not). It's the key reason to still use a projector.
bud16415 likes this.
Greyimporter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off