The Best Bookshelf Speakers Over $1000 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
None of the ID direct only speakers that are a favorite of so many forum members *1 who frequent the speaker threads? I realize most don't buy advertising, but still its disappointing not to see at least a few on your list *2. Salk, Ascend, Philharmonic, Selah to name just a few. Plus some of our ID direct speaker makers are known for offering 30 day listening trials which makes them easy to test *3, Dennis had his BMRs going around the country to various forum members *4 who wanted to give them a listen, no charge.
A few thoughts...

1. It's Steve's list. He'll have to let you know if he's heard those speakers and if so why he did or did not include them.

2. This list was not compiled with "Who is an advertiser on AVS" in mind. Steve does not even know who all our advertisers are, and many are ID brands. Power Sound Audio, which was suggested earlier, for example. Meanwhile, as an example, Focal is not spending money on AVS Forum.

3. Amazon has a 30-day return policy, so does Best Buy. So do many stores, actually. So that's a wash. Seems to me you either "pay the middleman" or else you subsidize Internet marketing and "free" back-and-forth shipping of large, heavy objects (the ID model) so people can "try" speakers at no cost. Either way money is being diverted to the sales and marketing process.

4. The great thing about the forum is the community. These posts are not going to in any way dent the massive churn that are the member threads in the open forums. This is the "Great Found Deals" section of the forum, not "Speakers". These are not reviews, and I'm thrilled to hear people are shipping speakers to each other and sharing opinions.
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post #32 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
A few thoughts...

4. The great thing about the forum is the community. This is the "Great Found Deals" section of the forum, not "Speakers". These are not reviews.

Mark - Had to not consider many well regarded speakers (reviewed and comments via forum members) that don't require paying the middle man not to be a "Great Found Deal." Plus many of the ID direct speaker makers run various deals throughout the year - the Holidays are approaching. So I would respectfully disagree that any of the speakers I listed don't qualify as a "Great Deal."

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post #33 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Oh hey I reviewed those, indeed very good speakers. Aesthetically maybe a bit tougher to swallow than some others, and by design they really need to be paired with a sub because they do not extend as deep. Not sure if Steve's heard a pair or not.
Wow I can't believe those PSA speakers only go down to 70hz with a MASSIVE 10" woofer for a "bookshelf" speaker. You would guess they would at least hit somewhere from the mid 30's to low 40's
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post #34 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by liffie420 View Post
Wow I can't believe those PSA speakers only go down to 70hz with a MASSIVE 10" woofer for a "bookshelf" speaker. You would guess they would at least hit somewhere from the mid 30's to low 40's
Only if they were designed with the sensibility of a "home" bookshelf speaker where the assumption is that the buyer may not have a subwoofer.... they are designed as satellites that need a subwoofer. That specification... is intentional.
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post #35 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Mark - Had to not consider many well regarded speakers (reviewed and comments via forum members) that don't require paying the middle man not to be a "Great Found Deal." Plus many of the ID direct speaker makers run various deals throughout the year - the Holidays are approaching. So I would respectfully disagree that any of the speakers I listed don't qualify as a "Great Deal."
It's not as if, unless a speaker is in this list, it is not a "great deal"

I'm 100% confident there are dozens and dozens of speakers (likely hundreds)—that are a great deal—out there.

But they are not in this particular list, that's all.

Hey, anyone who wants to give making these sort of lists a shot, PM me and I'll consider it.

It's impossible for one person to hear all the speakers out there, and even if they did, it's still their opinion unless they run a measurement lab.
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post #36 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 06:50 AM
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Hello Mark. I have to the KEF LS50. They should be added to the list.
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post #37 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 06:54 AM
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Hello Mark. I have to the KEF LS50. They should be added to the list.
Well, it's not my list. But, they could be added to a part 2 list for this price category along with some other suggestions from members.

Indeed, I do see these "Best" lists could use community input, as to what goes into them. I'll think about it, and see how that can be done going forward. The beautiful thing/problem is there are so many different speakers out there. It's crazy!
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post #38 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 08:19 AM
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Regarding the PSAs. They are intended more for serious Home Theater, in that they get very loud and are expected to be run with some serious subs.

With the driver size they utilize, you can go for lows or go for sensitivity. They chose the later.

I think the list generated is much more for 2 channel audio.

Also, if you are looking at the mt 210, I'm not sure that falls into "bookshelf." You'd have to talk about JTR then too.
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post #39 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 10:06 AM
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My friend has a pair of Phase Technology Speakers, heard them last month and sounded really clean. I also like the NHT speakers, I have the 3C center channel and M8's, great imaging. Save some money and avoid the big names!

Phase Technology speakers have a classy appearance too.

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https://phasetech.mseaudio.com/wp-co...eview-1010.pdf
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post #40 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitbull0669 View Post
Ok guys on noted and thanks for the feed back. As I stated I cant put every speaker on the list. There has to be a line someplace with how many speakers one can put on the list. I'm sure the list wasn't going to please every one. These are my opinions and I almost guarantee they will differ from everyone's. Like I said the beautiful thing about audio is everyone hears different. I hope this sheds a little light on why I cant put everything on the list. Plus I cant listen to every speaker. Not enough time in the day and my wife and 2 kids would kill me ha.
Great point, I guess when I see a list on the main page, I don't think of it as your list but as an AVSForum list. The first thing that came to mind was "The people here do not recommend or even talk about 80% of the speakers on this list.

If I see that the list is an Amazon list or it's sponsored then it's not a big deal if it does not match what we talk about.

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
A few thoughts...

1. It's Steve's list.

4. The great thing about the forum is the community. These posts are not going to in any way dent the massive churn that are the member threads in the open forums. This is the "Great Found Deals" section of the forum, not "Speakers". These are not reviews, and I'm thrilled to hear people are shipping speakers to each other and sharing opinions.
Very good point, I did miss that it was in the Great Found Deals section.
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Hey, anyone who wants to give making these sort of lists a shot, PM me and I'll consider it.

It's impossible for one person to hear all the speakers out there, and even if they did, it's still their opinion unless they run a measurement lab.
I see month after month people here asking for advice and making a list, "buying" a bunch of speakers writing about them and returning them. They even run some "invalid" tests and these are guys with less than 300 posts and they do the best that they can even if they screw up the tests. I love it because it's all coming from the heart.

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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Indeed, I do see these "Best" lists could use community input, as to what goes into them. I'll think about it, and see how that can be done going forward. The beautiful thing/problem is there are so many different speakers out there. It's crazy!
This would be awesome. I see an opportunity here to be different than all the other larger review companies that just put out lists that have no heart behind them. We have a large community here that would love to be a part of the forums articles. Nothing wrong with asking members in a general thread for input, then you can run a poll, then starting from the top work your way down and see what speakers you can get a whole of. The list does not have to be a best of list, just a list of speakers from AVS members that you have listened to. You do not have to pick a winner just state some background on the speaker, Pros, Cons, etc. This way we can have a professional review of the speakers that we talk about and another place to point people to when they are looking to upgrade.
Keep up the great work!!!
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post #41 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
A few thoughts...

1. It's Steve's list. He'll have to let you know if he's heard those speakers and if so why he did or did not include them.

2. This list was not compiled with "Who is an advertiser on AVS" in mind. Steve does not even know who all our advertisers are, and many are ID brands. Power Sound Audio, which was suggested earlier, for example. Meanwhile, as an example, Focal is not spending money on AVS Forum.

3. Amazon has a 30-day return policy, so does Best Buy. So do many stores, actually. So that's a wash. Seems to me you either "pay the middleman" or else you subsidize Internet marketing and "free" back-and-forth shipping of large, heavy objects (the ID model) so people can "try" speakers at no cost. Either way money is being diverted to the sales and marketing process.

4. The great thing about the forum is the community. These posts are not going to in any way dent the massive churn that are the member threads in the open forums. This is the "Great Found Deals" section of the forum, not "Speakers". These are not reviews, and I'm thrilled to hear people are shipping speakers to each other and sharing opinions.


Thank you sir.

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post #42 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 01:46 PM
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Yes, I see photos and links for them listed under all of those... They are listed as on backorder, so perhaps Polk hasn't produced a run of them in a bit though.

It is strange that you get pictures and links to the floor standing tower, centre channel, bookshelf, and surround speakers and yet all I see are the pictures and links to the various architectural speakers on the page you linked to and which I have been to before. That is true whether I use Firefox or Edge as my browser.


Oh well. I think I will stick with my SDA-1Cs that I bought new back in 1989 for now.
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post #43 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by erwalkerca View Post
It is strange that you get pictures and links to the floor standing tower, centre channel, bookshelf, and surround speakers and yet all I see are the pictures and links to the various architectural speakers on the page you linked to and which I have been to before. That is true whether I use Firefox or Edge as my browser.


Oh well. I think I will stick with my SDA-1Cs that I bought new back in 1989 for now.
Are you in the US? THe LSiMs are listed as 'USA only' on the pages, if you're viewing one of Polk's international sites maybe they aren't on it?
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post #44 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 10:26 PM
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I owned Polk Audio LSiM 703s and they are NOT even close in the same league as my current Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2s. When you listen to a RAAL tweeter there is no way a cheap ring tweeter like the one in the 703s can be compared with. Hey, the 703s are nice speakers but only if you get them less than 50% MSRP. Even the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Luna sounds much better than the 703s.
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post #45 of 76 Old 11-01-2018, 10:43 PM
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philharmonic BMR?
We did spend some time listening to their room. It sounded very nice, that I remember, though I am fuzzy on which exact speakers were playing. The New Philharmonitor, methinks.
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post #46 of 76 Old 11-02-2018, 04:25 AM
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Tweeter snobs. Lol.

My experience is that the crossover and (when implemented) waveguide have at least as much effect on quality of sound as the actual tweeter type. I do get that in audio when engaged enthusiasts spend extra to buy something touted as being the best, they will defend that decision vigorously. And assuredly, in most cases something was gained albeit where it falls within the law of diminishing returns varies and is always up for debate.

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post #47 of 76 Old 11-02-2018, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Tweeter snobs. Lol.

My experience is that the crossover and (when implemented) waveguide have at least as much effect on quality of sound as the actual tweeter type. I do get that in audio when engaged enthusiasts spend extra to buy something touted as being the best, they will defend that decision vigorously. And assuredly, in most cases something was gained albeit where it falls within the law of diminishing returns varies and is always up for debate.


100% agree.
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post #48 of 76 Old 11-02-2018, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by TuteTibiImperes View Post
Are you in the US? THe LSiMs are listed as 'USA only' on the pages, if you're viewing one of Polk's international sites maybe they aren't on it?

No, I am in Canada. But I am looking at the Polk dot com website and not a Canadian or other international site. Mind you, the site does some other strange stuff such as when you use the dealer locator. It correctly identifies where stores are or used to be that carry Polk products in Vancouver but it misidentifies the stores as HH Greg, Pro Systems, various Fry's locations, or some other US located retailer.
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post #49 of 76 Old 11-03-2018, 01:34 PM
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Interesting, my posts were deleted; no idea why.

I guess linking a review by an outside source is a no no.

All the links are Amazon which is fine but can you explain their return policy on bookshelves as to me it is clear as mud?

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post #50 of 76 Old 11-03-2018, 03:51 PM
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Hard to have a discussion when your dismissed as a “tweeter snob.” Like third grade again instead of discussing the science involved with various components of any of these speakers or others on the value list. Thought I was on AVS?
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post #51 of 76 Old 11-03-2018, 04:03 PM
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As a fan of actives i'd like to see a future thread for the Best Bookshelf Actives Over $1000. Worthy of consideration - the Dynaudio Focus 20XD
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post #52 of 76 Old 11-03-2018, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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As a fan of actives i'd like to see a future thread for the Best Bookshelf Actives Over $1000. Worthy of consideration - the Dynaudio Focus 20XD
The Actives list is being worked on as we speak.

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post #53 of 76 Old 11-03-2018, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Hard to have a discussion when your dismissed as a “tweeter snob.” Like third grade again instead of discussing the science involved with various components of any of these speakers or others on the value list. Thought I was on AVS?
What is stated is that its more about the crossover than the actual tweeter itself. Look at PSB ALL the same over the whole line . Only thing that differs is the crossovers. I've myself herd super cheap tweeters sound amazing with a good crossover and a impressive wave guide. Just remember it's ALL subjective on how the human ear hears. We all hear different and the speakers you love I may hate. As I said in the article the wonderful thing about audio is everyone likes and can hear something different . Its what makes it wonderful.

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post #54 of 76 Old 11-03-2018, 07:19 PM
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Hard to have a discussion when your dismissed as a “tweeter snob.” Like third grade again instead of discussing the science involved with various components of any of these speakers or others on the value list. Thought I was on AVS?
I was teasing. No hard feelings, eh?

Here's some more teasing... Check the URL, if it says AVSforum.com, you are on the right site!

Anyhow, since "Great Found Deals" was never specifically intended to host technical discussion, unlike "Speakers" perhaps you are in the wrong sub-forum is all?

I mean hey, if you want to discuss science here, go for it. I'm sure there's fresh ground that has not been covered a million times before over the past couple decades in this forum. Drilling down into tweeter science debates is not a requirement for perticipation in this thread or discussion.

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post #55 of 76 Old 11-03-2018, 08:02 PM
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I am quite happy with my Neumann KH 120s. They sound great on their own, even better with the 810 sub. Although I'd hate to call them bookshelf speakers, at the price range and size this list is covering you can get some really nice pro monitors.
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post #56 of 76 Old 11-05-2018, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
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I was teasing. No hard feelings, eh?

Here's some more teasing... Check the URL, if it says AVSforum.com, you are on the right site!

Anyhow, since "Great Found Deals" was never specifically intended to host technical discussion, unlike "Speakers" perhaps you are in the wrong sub-forum is all?

I mean hey, if you want to discuss science here, go for it. I'm sure there's fresh ground that has not been covered a million times before over the past couple decades in this forum. Drilling down into tweeter science debates is not a requirement for perticipation in this thread or discussion.
As all your recommended speaker links are to Amazon is this also the wrong place to ask for you to clarify the return policies on the speakers you are recommending?

Knowing a return policy seems a basic question when considering a recommended speaker from a recommended AVS vendor.

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post #57 of 76 Old 11-05-2018, 11:53 AM
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As all your recommended speaker links are to Amazon is this also the wrong place to ask for you to clarify the return policies on the speakers you are recommending?

Knowing a return policy seems a basic question when considering a recommended speaker from a recommended AVS vendor.
You are correct. With Internet Direct of course there's a different calculus and the return policy for each company needs to be examined. One thing about "middlemen" i.e. retailers is the return policy is (with exceptions of course) consistent across products in a category. But with Amazon you do have third party sellers who deviate from Amazon's standard policy, so in a list like this it is upon the shopper to do due diligence.

Of course if folks wish to debate those details, they should feel free to. I'm not going to go collect that info, it's the sort of thing people can glean for themselves with a few clicks, if they have reached that point.

Main thing is even with third-party vendors Amazon has its A to Z guarantee, which covers delivery and item condition and guarantees a refund if an item is returned in a trackable manner. And of course the non ID brands you'll find at other retailers, folks can choose who they buy from partly based on return policies, sure.
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post #58 of 76 Old 11-05-2018, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
You are correct. With Internet Direct of course there's a different calculus and the return policy for each company needs to be examined. One thing about "middlemen" i.e. retailers is the return policy is (with exceptions of course) consistent across products in a category. But with Amazon you do have thrid party sellers who deviate from Amazon's standard policy, so in a list like this it is upon the shopper to do due dilligence.

Of course if folks wish to debate those details, they should feel free to. I'm not going to go collect that info, it's the sort of thing people can glean for themselves with a few clicks, if they have reached that point.

Main thing is even with third-party vendors Amazon has its A to Z guarantee, which covers delivery and item condition and guarantees a refund if an item is returned in a trackable manner.
No kidding; here's the return policy on the Focals sold through Amazon...didn't bother checking the rest.

*All products purchased may be returned for a 100% purchase price refund except for the following listed items. The following items may also be returned but may incur up to a 15% restocking fee. (shipping is non refundable. Customer is responsible for all return shipping charges).

Televisions
Projectors
Projector Screens
Furniture
All Cleaning Products
Blu ray Players and DVR Units
Line Scalers
Audio Equipment including Receivers, Amps, Speakers, Radio's, and Headphone Products.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #59 of 76 Old 11-05-2018, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
No kidding; here's the return policy on the Focals sold through Amazon...didn't bother checking the rest.

*All products purchased may be returned for a 100% purchase price refund except for the following listed items. The following items may also be returned but may incur up to a 15% restocking fee. (shipping is non refundable. Customer is responsible for all return shipping charges).

Televisions
Projectors
Projector Screens
Furniture
All Cleaning Products
Blu ray Players and DVR Units
Line Scalers
Audio Equipment including Receivers, Amps, Speakers, Radio's, and Headphone Products.
To me it speaks to a simple fact... ID companies have to absorb all sorts of costs, including the shipping and depreciation on a returned item that was a "free" evaluation but then has to be sold open-box. That's why there's not as large (if any) gap between prices and performance as you might expect from "cutting out the middleman" and offering such generous policies to make up for the lack of retail presence.
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post #60 of 76 Old 11-05-2018, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
To me it speaks to a simple fact... ID companies have to absorb all sorts of costs, including the shipping and depreciation on a returned item that was a "free" evaluation but then has to be sold open-box. That's why there's not as large (if any) gap between prices and performance as you might expect from "cutting out the middleman" and offering such generous policies to make up for the lack of retail presence.
The Focals sold through Amazon are not an ID brand.

It was to point out that your "caveat emptor" statement was on point no matter where you are buying speakers.

Most ID companies don't offer free return shipping, but most don't charge a 15% restocking fee and, unless I'm mistaken, most don't charge you for shipping both ways as the vendor on Amazon for the Focals.

Geoff A. J., California
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