Mastering Movie Audio for the Home - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 175Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #571 of 599 Old 07-22-2019, 06:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 752
@Roger Dressler

What device (and or software) are you using to determine rms pink noise ?

Thanks. . .

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25
Tomas2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #572 of 599 Old 07-22-2019, 07:09 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
What device (and or software) are you using to determine rms pink noise ?
Adobe Audition on Windows, analysis statistics, with waveform statistics RMS settings set for 0 dBFS = FS sine wave per SMPTE definition.
Tomas2 likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #573 of 599 Old 07-22-2019, 10:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 1
It is stating it to be full bandwidth pink-noise 20Hz-20kHz and -20dBFS.

What about this:
BlueSky
http://abluesky.com/support/blue-sky...on-test-files/
Dynaudio
https://www.dynaudio.com/support/pink-noise
Genelec
https://www.genelec.com/audio-test-signals

All have different level.
OBJECT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #574 of 599 Old 07-22-2019, 11:17 AM
Advanced Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 920
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Liked: 178
What is your point @OBJECT ? Yes, you can find a million test files in the internet...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
HAA HT1, HT2 & HT3 certified
JonasHansen is online now  
post #575 of 599 Old 07-22-2019, 04:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Adobe Audition on Windows, analysis statistics, with waveform statistics RMS settings set for 0 dBFS = FS sine wave per SMPTE definition.
Hi Roger,

When time permits, would you please measure on a standard peak program meter (PPM) ballpark average values for standard pink vs filtered pink noise. I believe you have posted this here already but i was a little uncertain which number correlated to which noise signal (assuming all signal generator set for -20 dB)

Yes a sine wave function -20 dB rms signal level = -20 dBFS. pink noise at -20 dB can have +9 dB PPM average, so approximately - 11 dBFS on the PPM.

Thanks Roger !

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25

Last edited by Tomas2; 07-22-2019 at 05:10 PM.
Tomas2 is offline  
post #576 of 599 Old 07-22-2019, 10:02 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Hi Roger,

When time permits, would you please measure on a standard peak program meter (PPM) ballpark average values for standard pink vs filtered pink noise. I believe you have posted this here already but i was a little uncertain which number correlated to which noise signal (assuming all signal generator set for -20 dB)

Yes a sine wave function -20 dB rms signal level = -20 dBFS. pink noise at -20 dB can have +9 dB PPM average, so approximately - 11 dBFS on the PPM.
I don't have a PPM, but we can calculate the crest factor from Adobe's stats data, which is as follows:

12.0 dB for SMPTE 2095-1 pink noise (which is within the 11.5-12.0 dB range specified)
12.6 dB for 2095-1 filtered to 22.4 Hz - 22.4 kHz
15.4 dB for the Dolby file referenced earlier
Tomas2 likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #577 of 599 Old 07-23-2019, 04:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Ok thanks Roger,


Not sure crest factor would be similar to what i’m using the PPM for. Pink noise is a relatively high density signal. -20 pink as measured (integrating 2 sec window) one would see momentary peaks of -10 dBFS and sustained peaks at -11 dBFS.

Crest factor for pink:

crest -10 dBFS
average -11
minimum -12

with faster integration on my part i’ll add another dB to each (crest and min)

crest factor = -9 -13 = 4:1 if my math is correct ?

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25

Last edited by Tomas2; 07-23-2019 at 05:05 AM.
Tomas2 is offline  
post #578 of 599 Old 07-23-2019, 05:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Note on this youtube video @ 1:39


It’s kinda quick, but when he enables his noise generator you can see random peaks that i pretty much ignore and you basically see the meter deviating app four to five dB consistently.

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25

Last edited by Tomas2; 07-23-2019 at 06:45 AM.
Tomas2 is offline  
post #579 of 599 Old 07-23-2019, 08:44 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Not sure crest factor would be similar to what i’m using the PPM for. Pink noise is a relatively high density signal. -20 pink as measured (integrating 2 sec window) one would see momentary peaks of -10 dBFS and sustained peaks at -11 dBFS.

Crest factor for pink:

crest -10 dBFS
average -11
minimum -12

with faster integration on my part i’ll add another dB to each (crest and min)

crest factor = -9 -13 = 4:1 if my math is correct ?
Crest factor is simply the ratio of peak to RMS. For a sine wave, it's 3 dB. For 2095-1, it's 12 dB. For Dolby pink it's 15 dB.

Not all PPMs are created equal in how they read peaks (true peak is different than numerical PCM peak), but I suspect it's close enough for government work. Compare that to the RMS level and you have the crest factor.

What is your purpose in determining peak levels of pink noise -- just curious.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #580 of 599 Old 07-23-2019, 10:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Roger, did you notice the level differences between the pink files? Why?
They are anyway from the studio monitor manufacturers who speakers are in use for mixing blu-ray.

Look at this prices https://www.rspeaudio.com/Studio-Monitors-s/2169.htm ..No gold and diamonds in them

Last edited by OBJECT; 07-24-2019 at 06:47 AM.
OBJECT is offline  
post #581 of 599 Old 07-24-2019, 11:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by OBJECT View Post
Roger, did you notice the level differences between the pink files?
I only looked at the Dolby noise, and the results were mentioned earlier. Link 1 Link 2

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #582 of 599 Old 07-26-2019, 06:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
What is your purpose in determining peak levels of pink noise -- just curious.
I knew the peak level, and was focusing on the constant -11 dBFS for standard noise and wanted to check see what the other pink noise signals you mentioned looked per -20 rms.

FWIW a peak reading meter (useless for mixing) took me some time to work with and come to understand. A lot of revelations came as the FCC mandated the CALM Act for broadcasters. Did a considerable amount of comparing between a dorrough VU meter then the PPM starting with average dialogue. For example, most broadcasters have adopted -24 LKFS for their dialnorm target. Well with a PPM i could tell if the dialogue was spot on. For all people speaking at a comfortable average volume the meter would show dialogue peaks of -10 dBFS. Always . . .

So if you know what it is your looking at, i could precisely measure complex rms audio content with the PPM. Yes i know all PPM are not the same (pretty close though) and for what it’s worth i was looking at the built-in meter on pro gear ...Sony, Panasonic, Protools ICON, Studer, Sound Devices (cool stuff) here:

https://www.sounddevices.com/

Not sure i even answered your question, but i tried my best
Roger Dressler likes this.

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25

Last edited by Tomas2; 07-27-2019 at 02:58 PM.
Tomas2 is offline  
post #583 of 599 Old 07-26-2019, 06:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
Tomas2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 753
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 465 Post(s)
Liked: 752
@Roger Dressler

Hey i even got validation on the dialogue number from Dolby Labs, the very helpful gentleman that i was speaking with name was Adam Pinch with Dolby...any chance you’ve crossed paths ?

SAMSUNG QLED | ROTEL | MOREL | M&K | HAFLER | TECHNICS SP-25
Tomas2 is offline  
post #584 of 599 Old 07-27-2019, 10:54 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
@Roger Dressler

Hey i even got validation on the dialogue number from Dolby Labs, the very helpful gentleman that i was speaking with name was Adam Pinch with Dolby...any chance you’ve crossed paths ?
Yes, we served together.
Tomas2 likes this.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #585 of 599 Old 07-31-2019, 02:49 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 1
There are still no straight answer to this. Should we calibrate and EQ all channels to 79 dB?
Why on earth are the mixers doing this hugely costing video and audio remastering work and in the end result they dump it to something else. A real restoration can cost 3-20 milj $.
From the audio mix side even THX has recognize this loudness issue https://www.thx.com/mobile/loudness-plus

THE REVIEWS

This discs reviews do not review the higher 4K vs. 1080p resolution because that do not need a review because the higher it is the better it is. This extra resolution is always a welcome but it will never satisfy if the other issues in the picture are failing 'down the toilet'. Neither is my reviews pointing out HDR or Dolby Vision in quality because there doesn't exist a 4000 nits covering 100% DCI-P3 nor BT2020 color gamut TV/projector technology in the consumer market for it to be reviewed properly.
Neither have I reviewed the Atmos and the DTSX ceiling audio because a movies soundtrack will always concentrate in what is happening in the screen and not out side of it (standard). To understand what Atmos/DTSX ceilings are for it needs a much more complicated XYZ calculation of speaker type/placements vs. room size/shape compared to what is available in the consumer market and this discs ceiling audio MIX has so little in common with the cinema versions. The cinema versions will always be the real thing real immersive mix. Neither am I reviewing my super precise full-range studio monitors Quested V3110/SR6/V1115b which will tell if there is something wrong in this audio tracks.
From this perspectives given it would had been a lot wiser and even cheaper to make a super remastered 7.1 mix in this discs and it would had let the consumers to install this 7.1 systems properly in their homes.
So I will make a few trimmed side by side disc reviews to collaborate the issues this remasters are having:


SOME COMPARISONS AND REVIEWS TO THE END

The NEW Dolby approved THE DOORS was a huge disappointment. Old and this new has no actual difference in the mix and the loudness level is exactly the same in both. Had to increase the volume level by +8 dB to achieve the correct loudness in it. The mix would had allow it to be hotter because it is a good mix.
I went back to this title after reviewing Apocalypse Now to see if this title have red push in it. The picture is a bit complicated to be judge since the old and this new print they are both ok (not perfect) but anyway they have occasionally scenes with a bit different toned colors in some areas of the picture which is visible but minor. Occasionally in some scenes the sky/cloud color and the skin tone is slightly different in each but this new remaster does have just slightly more red push. When the film goes further to 1h point the picture in both are identical through the end. This red push disturbs more like if there would be green or blue push. There for I made a final decision to stick with the old disc which is already a remaster.

I went back to the 2 NEW remastered WATERWORLD the US vs. Arrow UK titles and the result is very interesting. Arrow have completely screw up their print in both picture and sound. Arrow picture has green, a bit of yellow, blue and purple push and in the sun scenes the picture is burned off. I have never ever seen anything like this in my hole life. It looks like Arrow have used a mastering facility which mastering monitors where completely out of rec709/rec2020 gamut or the guy user where drunk. But the US is neither perfect and does have a visible red push.
But what the US does have is a honestly remastered sound mix which loudness is perfect and it is HOT and this is the reason I did not have to increase the pre-pros volume level to something louder - on this excellent job US!!!
Try to get a copy of Cinefex having a article of this movie https://cinefex.com/backissues/issue64.htm

The NEW remastered GLORY. This title audio track is having a very commonly in use issue. All the background sounds are too low in level, missing and the dialog is tuned too loud. With this title I had to increase the volume level to achieve the correct loudness in it. I will try to review the picture later on
Exactly the same symptom is with the NEW remastered HANNIBAL when I compared it to the old one. The picture is almost identical in both with just minor differences. This new does have a slightly different cropping but it does not help in anything. I will stick with the old print because it has louder background sounds and Criterion The Game cinema track is also a very good example of that same to stick with.

The NEW IRON MAN and THOR remaster mixes had the same loudness issue. This mix allows them to be hotter but they are not and there for I had to increase the volume level up by +4 dB to achieve at least something back. But if loudness is cut off it can not come back again with increasing the volume level. I will try to review the picture later on

Someone said about Skywalker Sound. Cameron has used that in several in his films with Oscar winning audio tracks. ALITA is also having a excellent audio mix which is so good that it allows it to be extremely loud. But again they have diminished the loudness in that track and I had to increase the volume level by +4 dB to achieve the correct loudness in it. The track gets even better the higher I increase the volume level and this is the strong point what Cameron knows how to do it. Also T2, Titanic and Avatar is having the same loudness issues.
Try to grab a copy of Cinefex and other issues of his films https://cinefex.com/backissues/issue163.htm
Remember to take a look at James Camerons, Story of Science Fiction https://www.amc.com/shows/james-came...cience-fiction

NEXT... APOCALYPSE NOW, old Redux vs. new 4K mix. My expectations are always high when it comes to re-releasing catalogue and Apocalypse Now is one of that. I even made espresso for this highly anticipated high end test, so I trimmed both tracks into sync and change the source input back and forward to locate differences in this audio tracks. So my result is that there is no actual difference between this two tracks even the new is 7.1. I actually new this because the old mix is already perfect fine and it is Coppola in here. The loudness is exactly the same in both tracks and they both are correct, so I did not have to increase the volume level to achieve something different. By comparison from the same director for Bram Stoker's Dracula I had to increase my volume level with a huge difference.
What comes to the picture quality this colorist have made the same decision than in most of the previous remastered titles have which is red push. This red is also in the critical white areas, like it is in Waterworld, and the sky clouds look strange. This red push is now a new trend which has nothing to do with original film look. I call this red push "candy land". The old Redux color is leaning slightly toward green with correct skin color, white and the sky clouds are also correct. I think the old print is closer to the truth. I must say that this new so called remaster was a bit of a disappointment so I will stick with the old Redux version which is already a remaster.
By the way it was a great Coppola interview at El Reys, The Director's Chair

NEXT... RAMBO, Extended, old 7.1 vs. new remaster... I have always admire this titles audio track which is still the best in the market in it, genre and even John Wick should consider to take a ride with it. What I notice is that there are actually no difference in the mix it self because it is already excellent through out and they both sound equally loud which loudness is correct. What is notable is that if you own the old 5.1 and that tracks loudness is incorrect compared to this 7.1.
The picture. The extra resolution is always a welcome but it will never satisfy if the other issues in the picture are failing 'down the toilet'. In this case the picture in both versions are fine but what they have done in this new version is that they have fix in certain scenes the grainy contrast and in some scenes they have slightly tuned the color in certain areas in the picture and this tuning is visible. By comparing this two side by side the new version is slightly better which will continue in future as a excellent demo disc
A great Stallone interview at El Reys, The Director's Chair

STAND BY ME, old vs. new remaster... This movie is one of those which enthusiasts talk about and refer to when it comes to teenage Oscar acting and the timing of this new remaster release is perfect.
I will go right to the point when comparing this 2 side by side and the audio and the picture on this new remaster is REAL. On the audio side the background sound effects and foley are now audibly louder, dialog is audibly cleaner plus louder and there is even audible low frequency sounds. The track is now more alive and cleaner. This type of mix I would call a real remastered audio. The only negative thing in this track is, that it is in too low in level meaning to get the track back alive I had to increase my pre-pros volume level to a certain point to achieve this proper aliveness. They made a huge, expensive and excellent mix work but change it to something else for this disc
The picture is fantastic. Precise tuning of the colors in all areas, the extra red push is gone, trees the fields colors and the contrast is also perfect. So the picture is also a real remaster.
Conclusion is that you can now throw the old disc to recycle bin.

NEXT... DAYBREAKERS, old vs. new remaster... This movie doesn't need any introduction and it is a great flick in the vampire world. When reviewing this two discs side by side I couldn't locate any difference between them in the audio mix and neither in the picture quality (tuning of: color, hue, brightness and contrast). The old disc is already having great picture and a great audio mix. The loudness in both tracks is the same and it is perfect and I did not need to increase the volume level to achieve it louder. From this perspective it was a bit useless to make a new version. This new disc is a very good example of a print which is not a real remastered title because it doesn't need a new remastering.

NEXT... CASINO, old vs. remaster... Casino is one of my favorite and actually all Martins films are super individuals and he is the master in doing that.
When comparing this two live side by side in sync I discovered in this new remaster that they have adjusted the contrast visible darker which is bad and slightly tuned the skin tone to better. In the old print the skin tones are a bit light but the contrast is here much better. Otherwise both are identical.
Audio. This is the first time they have done it correctly in this new remaster and it relates to cleaning the dialog. But what again has happen in this new disc, which is already a silly policy, is that the background noises, music, trumpets in the open scene, this sounds are lower in level and this cleaned dialog is there audibly louder. The dialog in the old disc is by the way loud enough and should not be adjusted but they did it for this new disc. To get this background audio back to same level with the old disc I had to increase my pre-pros volume level by +2 dB to get it in par but then the dialog in it gets too loud!
Would you call this a real remaster? I would rather say that this is only a new version which Martin did not have time to control on, sorry!

NEXT... Aladdin 1992, old vs. new remaster... This new remastered Atmos/7.1 is the worst blu-ray audio track ever made, amen! This tracks level is totally messed up and is done only for late night viewing experience, or speakers with 3" drivers, mobiles/tablets and soundbar. It is tuned for stereo listening. I had to increase my pre-pros volume level from -15 dB to -3 dB (+12 dB) to get this track back alive in par with the old discs 5.1 tracks level. This is a new world record and this kind of loudness limiting is not even in use in the streaming services where there are usually a lot of mistakes. With the old disc I had to increase the volume level to -11 dB (+4 dB) which means the old track is audibly louder with a huge difference. The only thing they have done in this new 7.1 track mix is the cleaned dialog but otherwise both mixes are identical and the extra surrounds do not help in anything.
It was brainless to make a Atmos mix in this class by dumping it to something different and in the end Disney have pay for this misled and foolish work!
The picture. There is visible more color push in the old print but otherwise they are identical. This NEW discs color tuning is correct and in the old there is too much of it. This new is 1.66:1, the original and the old discs aspect ratio is 1.85:1. According to IMDB; 1.66:1 is Negative Ratio and 1.85:1 is Intended Ratio. This 1.66 does give visibly extra image which is always a welcome.
Conclusion is that I really hope that this kind of mistakes will never ever again occur and if it does it is time for this enthusiast to start to skip buying of Disney discs

Angel Heart, old vs. new remaster... A new remaster is always a welcome if the old discs picture and sound have problems in them. Both this prints are from Studio Canal behind the newly remastered DNR T2 and Rambo I-III which picture is having red push "candy shop". This gave me clues to review those and the new remastered Mississippi Burning. So I will give this Studio a third chance to show it self with Angel Heart.
Picture. When trimmed both Canal Digital discs side by side the evidence is very easy to be seen. On this new print there is red with slightly pink push with wrong skin tones and the image is visibly darker. The old disc is already good enough. This is starting to get a bit annoying this red push in totally wrong areas and seams to be that this colorist did not compare this two against each even this both prints are their own. It looks like the colorist used in his application a automatic push button setting called blu-ray color
Audio. Yes they have cleaned the complete mix and that is good news but again it is not in par in the level. The background sounds and the dialog are audibly weaker in this new print. So to get the background sounds and the dialog back in par I had to increase my volume level audibly higher. Which one is then better and it is the new remaster because the track is cleaned in several areas even the tracks level is wrong.
So, what is the conclusion in all this...a third disc with old discs picture having the new discs audio?

NEXT... The Shining, old vs. new remaster... Kubrick would turn around in his grave if he knew what a heck the mixers and the colorists are doing this days. Some might even remember who invented the sound quality of X-Curve and it was Kubrick and Ioan Allen. Kubrick playback his movie Clockwork Orange in this London based cinema through it behind the screen Vitafox speakers and said the sound is rubbish. Then Kubrick rented this cinema for one week and install his mixing console with his Tannoy 12" coaxial studio monitors at the console at the audience seating area. Allen built for this purpose a switcher to switch between the speakers at the same sound level. At this stage they started to use EQ to achieve the same sound quality through the Vitafox against what the Tannoy could produce. Clockwork Orange was the first with the Dolby 2-channel track with Dolby A. What they discovered was that the X-Curve sounded right. This is it how X-Curve was invented.
When trimmed both discs side by side in same monitor I discovered the following:
The picture. This new remaster has a strange decision in it. In the remastered version there is more color in the forest in the opening helicopter fly over scene but when the movie goes a bit further the color is getting almost identical. The new remaster still have slightly stronger red skin tone and you can see occasionally extra red push. The Warner logo has totally wrong color settings with red push in it clouds compared to the old discs. The old print is already great and it does not need this kind of extra color push. Otherwise in detail this two are identical. So to be honest this new remaster is wrong and useless.
The audio. The old disc has Dolby Digital 5.1 with dial.norm 4 dB in it (selected -27 dBFS attenuation in the encoder setting) and this new remaster is DTS 5.1. Both tracks are equal in level and to get both this tracks delicately alive with great dialog and stereo image I had to increase my pre-pros volume level by +4 dB (from -15 to -11 dB). The mix decision in this new remastered audio is a bit strange. The opening helicopter fly over scene in it the music is re-mixed with audible difference, more stereo image, more surround and more bass but when the movie goes further the audio gets identical. After all the dialog, background sounds and the stereo image they are identical in both discs.
My conclusion is that it was a bit useless to make this new disc and a waste of valuable studio money.

Next... Pans Labyrinth, remaster vs. remaster... I have seen all Guillermos films and must say that he is a master class in his own sketching and writing in directing. He is as well a very talented director in making and mixing audio tracks. I have always compared Cohen brothers to Guillermo when it comes to own creations. This guys are super talented writers in creations.
Both remastered discs are Criterion. Old version is a 2K scan and this new is a 4K scan. This extra resolution is always a welcome and once you have correctly color tuned a master then you can call it a real remastered disc. What Criterion is doing compared to all others is that they only release real definitive titles which means they do only once a correctly done color tuning and after that everything is just a re-release if the title is sold out (if the contract let re-releasing). At a moment Criterion is the only company in the hole world who releases real director and cinematography approved titles and all others are mainly more or less a joke, 'ups'. This is the reason there is no single difference between this two titles in the tuning of the picture.
I had to go back and re-check the audio mix and loudness. The new 7.1 is a bit louder and it is a true 7.1 mix having better stereo image in front to sides to surrounds, with a bit louder surrounds having new pans in there and it is more open compared to the old mix. This is a track which you can call a real remastered audio and it does not need to be any Atmos or DTSX. The only drawback in this track is the loudness in it and by increasing the volume level by true +4 dB the track gets much better. I really hope others could pay attention to this and would stop doing pseudo re-mixes!
Take a look at Cinefex who have published articles in their issues of some of Guillermos films https://cinefex.com/backissues/
Take a look at Guillermos great interview in El Reys, The Director's Chair

Next... Zombieland, old vs. new... I could not find an answer to my question if this newly released disc is a remastered version or not. Lets think of it that it is not.
- Picture; both are identical. There is no need to change or fix something.
- Audio; this new re-mix helps a bit in the music scenes but otherwise both are identical. The loudness is also identical in both and both are correct and I did not have to increase my pre-pros volume level to something different (+4 or +8 dB) to get sounds back alive. This is the first re-mix at/for? Sony which loudness is correct and is against what Brian Vessa and his friends wish for

NEXT... Scarface "Cara de cicatriz", old vs. new remaster... This film do not need any introduction and I have even seen it 20 times over. There are not many films that gives the opportunity to see them 20 times over but Scarface and Heat are among that. What have bothered everybody in the industry is that the Oscar committee made a huge mistake by not giving an Oscar for Al Pacinos master class acting. Where did the Oscar committees idea come from that you can not give an Oscar to a acting who kills people, use "yeyo" as slang throughout the film, which cocaine used was powdered milk, which uses 207 times the "F" word, is a drug lord, kills him self in the end and for a X Raiting film. Golden Globe had a very different approach to this very senile issue.
Take a look at the very informative trivia at IMDB https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086250...ef_=tt_trv_trv
- Picture; this new disc is a real remaster from the picture quality point of view. Brightness and contrast is by far better and still maintains correct color tuning, correct flesh tones, is without any extra color push, green or red push. The picture is a properly tuned real remastering.
- Audio; this new re-mix was a bit of a disappointment. The old disc is already having a 7.1 track and that amount of channels is also embedded in this new DTSX track. What they have done in this new re-mix is that it has a bit wider stereo image in the front stage and they have clean the extra harshness in it which is a good thing. The old mix in front stage are leaning a bit toward the center channel which does not make it a bad track but it has harshness in it which is audible. But what is totally wrong in this new re-mix is the level in it which is weaker compared to the old track and I had to increase my pre-pros volume level by approx +4 dB to get it in par with the old track. The issue in both tracks are that both tracks are too weak in level. Otherwise the mix in both are identical. It was a disappointment that they did not include the original 4-track mix and instead chose the Mono.
When comparing both discs trimmed side by side my conclusion is that now you can throw the old disc in your recycle bin
Waiting to see De Palmas triller Domino with actor Nikolaj Coster-Waldau https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0182666/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3282076...?ref_=tt_ov_vi
This gave me the idea of going back and review the 4.1 audio track made of the 70mm Six-track in the disc The Thing

NEXT... American Gangster, old vs. new remaster... I certainly have seen all Scotts brothers flicks but I must say that this film suffered good character acting and there are better out there in police or narc territory. I must say that the character acting in Training Day (2001) is something that will always be very hard to overtake and it is super against this flick. It is always great to read the IMDBs text and the original script title for this film was Tru Blu and the working title was The Return of Superfly. It was fun to read the Trivia, ex. Richie Roberts who said "Lucas is having too much fun, and I want to arrest him again!" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0765429...ef_=tt_trv_trv
- Picture; this is the second title which is a real remaster the way Scarface is. Brightness and contrast is by far better and still maintains correct color tuning, correct flesh tones, is without any extra color push, green or red push. The picture is a properly tuned real remastering like Scarface is.
- Audio; both are identical. The loudness level in both are the same but to get the level correct I had to increase my pre-pros volume level by 2 dB. From this perspectives the audio is not a real remaster and this new 7.1 is useless.
When comparing both discs trimmed side by side my conclusion is that now you can throw the old disc in your recycle bin

NEXT... Hellboy I & II, old vs. new remaster... Hellboy I. It is great that studios do release remastered versions of their flicks, but is this new disc a real thing?, sorry it is not.
- Picture; this new remaster does have a 1 mg adjusted better contrast but otherwise both are identical. The picture is already fine in the old disc.
- Audio; this new 7.1 track is a bit louder compared to the old track which is always great news. But the loudness is anyway not correct and to get it right I had to increase my pre-pros volume level by 2 dB. The mix in surround is a bit louder with minor newly developed pans with the identical front stage. Is this a real remastered audio track, the answer is NO! What you get with this disc is just a re-released version with optional 4K resolution and HDR.
Hellboy II. Picture; There is more color and skin red push in the old version and they have tuned it lighter in this new remastered version. The most ridiculous decision what this colorist did do in this new release is he adjusted Hellboys skin to looking like he is covered with brown chocolate
Audio; old discs tracks loudness is correct and in this new release it is 2 dB weaker. The mix in both are identical. In this case the 7.1 mix is useless.
You can ask your self this question, do I want a disc with lower in level audio track where Hellboys skin is tuned brown...?

NEXT... Pacific Heights, first release... It is time to take a look at this high octane thriller from 1990 which is still in this enthusiasts list which also consist of thrillers like, Presumed.Innocent, Fugitive, Shattered, No Mercy, The Hand that Rocks the Cradle, Blue Steel, The Mean Season, Fatal Attraction, No Way Out, The Firm, Someone to Watch Over Me, Sleeping with the Enemy, The Pelican Brief, Cape Fear, Misery, Narrow Margin, The Hitcher, The Presidio, Single White Female, and the list goes on...
- Picture; Oh my gosh! This blu-ray disc picture is looking like it was drawn directly from the film reel to this disc. Al the grain, light weaving and the dust is still in there. It is looking like it is not altered or tuned in any way. This is it how a film should look like as unaltered in a blu-ray disc.
- Audio; the loudness level in this track is stunning VERY HOT which is always a welcome and it is the second title from Sony with that. This sound mix is of course a bit harsh because of the age but it sounds like it is a direct copy from the cinema mix as unaltered from that!. This has the same symptom like the Criterion The Game cinema mix is having all the background noises music in proper loud level still maintaining a audible loud dialog. This is it how it should be in all our blu-rays!... After all, what ever a mixer is saying or pointing out we can still playback a cinema mix in our home systems
Great work Sony

NEXT... A few Canal Digital movies, old vs. new remaster... This company started to collect a while back old movies for remastering. Testing was done as usual both discs trimmed side by side for comparison. Rambo I-III and Red Heat this discs are totally wrong remastered with wrong color tuning, all the colors wrong and the audio is a direct copy. The end result is looking like this colorist monitors where out of calibration or he did use the automatic blu-ray setting in the application. Lock Up is the only one which can be called real remastering because this have correct color tuning, the flesh tones is correct and brightness/contrast is by far better. The result is so different between each groups that Canal Digital must have used different mastering facility between this groups which is a shame . It is worth saying that the Sony released Cliffhanger is remastered correctly if someone is asking that. The loudness level in all this titles are still wrong approx 4 dB too low

NEXT... The Thing, all 3 vs. 70MM Six-Track... We have Predator, we have Alien and then we have The Thing. All this are masterpieces in their own class and all others are just spin offs or copies. By the way, I have tried to locate where is John McTiernan and I did discovered that he is still writing and has sold several un-credit screenplays to the studios which they are not admitting he is doing. Ups, there might be a chance that McTiernan will be back. Hope so, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9202810/?ref_=nm_flmg_dr_1
Remember to visit John Carpenters music sessions and concert at all times. This thing...
It was a bit difficult but did manage to trim all 3 flicks, Universal, Arrow and Shout in clock in same calibrated monitor in separate video windows to discover what is right and wrong between all this and in real time. This is something that NO disc reviewers are doing accept me but one other web page does it.
Picture: sorry, but all this 3 are a mess...
Shout; the snow is blue, other scenes are blue and even purple, flesh tone is occasionally correct with minor red push in it. Contrast/brightness is the best. Over all it has less color than in Arrow but it is the same as in Universal.
Arrow; the snow is correct, no blue or purple push, flesh tone is correct, sadly there is less contrast/brightness than in Shout and is in par with the Universal. Over all the color is the best within this 3.
Universal; the snow is correct, in some scenes there is purple push, the flesh tone is red pushed and incorrect, contrast/brightness is Arrow copy and wrong, over all the color is slightly pushed and wrong.
Who is the winner of this 3 messy picture tuning. Arrow it is.
Sound: by comparing the 3 against this 70MM Six-track (vs.) I must say that the mixers where either drunk or they did not know what they where doing. All this tracks mix is done totally wrong. How is it behaving, by turning the volume level up to a certain point where the dialog gets in proper level the back ground sounds and the music is then too loud. If you then turn the back ground sounds and music to a proper level the dialog is then too low. This means that the 70MM Six-track is NOT a direct copy as intact from the cinema mix!
When are you mixers going to learn what you are doing
Take a look at Directors Chair with John Carpenter

NEXT... Netflix NEWS... Meanwhile preparing the Coming Up article of Skywalker Sound I need to express my self of an issue I discovered when playing back the latest action movie 6 Underground.
We are having a new record in loudness level. To achieve proper level for a audible dialog with proper level in the action sequences I had to increase my pre-pros volume level to 0 dB meaning the volume level is in full!!! The Irishman have also too weak track but noting like this...
A while back Netflix did publish and advertise an article that it will produce in feature releases better picture and better audio quality.... Diminishing the loudness level this way destroys everything in the track and is also against what the original sound designer have intended it to be. Shame on you Netflix!
What is good about this flick at Netflix is the picture quality and it is the best because Michael Bay knows exactly how to manipulate lighting, colors and contrast

NEXT... Robocop, old vs. Arrow... Put down your weapons... "Robocop is an unbelievable experience. I haven't watched the film since 1988 and the other day I received it on DVD. So I eagerly popped it in the player and BOOM!!! The only way I can describe Robocop is ultra violence. The film is so over the top and out of control. The film speaks of a future where big companies will run the governmental defense. Those times are upon us more and more everyday. Paul Verhoeven has made one of the most important science fiction films ever made and it's a brilliant piece of cinema -IMDB".
102 min, 78 min (cut), 98 min (cut), 103 min (unrated director's cut) and 91 min (cut), tells everything about this flick.
We have bought all this editions under our Christmas tree in several different formats; VHS, VHS LBX, LaserDisc, DVD, box sets, Blu-ray, remastered in between and of course this re-re-remaster. Sometimes the Studios did have good luck in producing a very good disc print master, but sorry, the truth is totally different this days.
I just finished testing a few NEWLY re-remastered Blu-ray discs side-by-side and the result was mind blowing. I could not find a single difference between the old vs. the new re-remaster. Yeah, occasionally 1 mg difference in contrast or skin tones but just 1 mg, same with audio. Entirely useless and waste of money! This titles are; Drag Me to Hell, Easy Rider and Arrow Robocop.
I had definitely more fun reading the Trivia of Robocop, take a look https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093870...ef_=tt_trv_trv . Verhoeven news https://www.darkhorizons.com/verhoev...ami-tv-series/

NEXT... 4 new James Bond movies, old vs. remaster... My name is Bond, James Bond, I will have A dry martini, one. in a deep champagne goblet, three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?
Well, how do they look and sound when in sync side by side... They are all identical in picture and sound because they are already perfect tuned. But shame on them because Casino Royal 4K disc still have edge effect in there which means they did not remaster it properly! The only thing you will get is the higher resolution 4K and HDR but on a small TV screen it is a bit of a waste. But what they could have done would had been to include a bit hotter audio tracks to blow us completely away
Cinefex has also an issue for Casino Royale https://cinefex.com/backissues/issue108.htm

NEXT... Beverly Hills Cop 1-3, old vs. new remaster... "Tell Victor that Ramon - -the fella he met about a week ago? -tell him that Ramon went to the clinic today, and I found out that I have, um, herpes simplex 10, and I think Victor should go check himself out with his physician to make sure everything is fine before things start falling off on the man. -Axel Foley" ...
Paramount has establish a new marketing strategy they call it “Paramount Presents”. Paramount is saying the titles have been “meticulously remastered”...what does that mean, lets take a look:
Cop 1:
- the audio track: This is definitely a re-mixed audio track. We have in front audible wider stereo image with pitch perfect slight echoing effect in it, dialog is cleaned and the high octaves is tuned a bit up, bass is wider and audibly bigger and the surrounds are now alive in precise proper level with the front stage. This new re-mixed track is even +4dB louder than the old one. Super fine job, thanx!...but again the loudness level... The old track needed a +10dB lift in the volume level to get it in par with this new mix. This new mix still suffers from level differences and to get it properly alive with loud enough dialog I had to turn the volume knob up from -15dB to -11dB, meaning the 4dB is still there in it
- the picture: actually both are great. They are different from each other. Old is having a bit green push, is a bit darker with slightly better contrast, skin tone is the same in both, is looking like warm rec709 picture where white is cream and has the necessary film grain in it. This new remaster has a colder look in it, with slightly pink push, contrast is slightly weaker but corrected in some areas (ex. Murphys face in the opening scene), the color in all other areas is better tuned and this has diminished film grain in it. , what should I say, it is actually a matter of each once taste which one you like or not. But is the video a remaster, YES and NO. What is worthy to say is that the 4K streaming version is identical to this new release which is a good thing.
Cop 2:
- the audio track: Identical. There is no notable difference between this two. The loudness level is also the same in both and wrong (-15dB to -11dB, 4dB). This is not a restoration either a remastered track and is actually a direct copy of the old one.
- the picture: identical, not needing any restoration or remaster. It is worth saying that this new print has just diminished film grain. This new one is in par with the 4K streaming version.
Cop 3:
- the audio track: Identical. Nothing worthy to point out. In some scenes a bit louder effect in the surrounds but it is a minor issue. Loudness level is the same in both and again wrong (4dB). This is not a restoration either a remastered track.
- the picture: Almost identical. Just 1mg of difference in the color, but skin tone is much better and actors faces are better seen. The grain is identical in both. This new one is in par with the 4K streaming version.
...That said, Paramount Presents did not start perfect but descent. What more can you say about Beverly Hills Cop trilogy. First Cop is a perfect movie, with Eddies jokes laughing at least my pans off and with even perfect music. That is a fact that the actors and the crew had a hell of a ride doing this movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086960...ef_=tt_trv_trv .

NEXT... The Mask of Zorro, old vs. new remaster... IMDB 6,7 with over 160.000 Votes and that is a excellent result for this type of movie . At the time when director Martin Campbell (Casino Royale) shot this movie he already had done 007 Goldeneye https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0132709/?ref_=tt_ov_dr. Besides great directing of a movie Campbell knows exactly how to direct a movie with result of a good quality audio track
Video: Almost identical against the old one when both are in sync side by side. What they have done in this new so called remaster is the completely fine tuned brightness/contrast which is a good thing. This same fine tuning was also done with Beverly Hills Cop I. In some scenes the color is as well a bit fine tuned but it is a minor issue and mostly the scenes are identical. In the old disc the picture is a bit too dim, but the fine tuned brightness/contrast in the new version kills the dim but is also killing the background objects details sharpness (they tuned it too much). This sharpness in detail are perfect fine in the old version. Film grain is identical in both. Running both videos side by side in sync I would had just fine tuned the dimming away and leave everything else the same. At least with 4K HDR everything should be perfect but again it isn't. Is this a real remaster, NO it is not
Audio: This films audio track has always been in shape. The original sound designing and mixing is done by great names like, Hector C. Gika https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0317696/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr97, Kevin O'Connell https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0640114/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr108 and Greg P. Russell https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0751169/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr110, but is this guys intended track still in this Blu-ray disc?, lets hear it... I compared both to each other in sync and came to the following conclusion and they are almost identical! This new re-mix has exactly the same stereo image XYZ, same bass and same surrounds than in the old one. The only one minor difference is that in some scenes the surrounds are just slightly louder but you will not notice it with your silly mobile phone or soundbar . But what is great news is the loudness level which is correct meaning that I did not have to increase the volume level up to a certain point to achieve audible audio aka dialog or sound dynamics from the track. The level is in both discs the same. This new 7.1 re-mix does not give anything new because the original is already perfect fine. So, is this a remastered audio track, NO it is not!
So, is the original sound designing and mixing in both this Blu-ray discs, YES they are
Read the Trivia https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120746...ef_=tt_trv_trv
By the way the original score is mixed with Quested studio monitors. Great soundtrack from super talented James Horner


Great news http://www.darkhorizons.com/netflix-...paris-theatre/
https://www.darkhorizons.com/amazon-...-talk-emerges/

NEXT... Fatal Attraction, old vs. new remaster...
NEXT... War of the Worlds, old vs. new remaster, bass vs. bass...
NEXT... Top Gun, old vs. new remaster...
NEXT... The Best Skywalker Sound sound design in a Blu-ray disc...
NEXT... A few Pixar movies, old vs. new remaster...

Last edited by OBJECT; 05-19-2020 at 12:40 AM.
OBJECT is offline  
post #586 of 599 Old 01-20-2020, 01:15 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I just checked the Dub Stage noise and it's perfect.
wideband level -18.3 dBFS
22.4 Hz - 22,400 Hz BPF, -19 dBFS
What are you seeing?
I'm interested too on this topic and the accuracy between wide band and narrow band pink noise calibration levels.

I downloaded the file from The Dub Stage and scanned it on Audition: total RMS level is -18.2 dBFS; third octave RMS level is about -34.1 dBFS.

When setting the level of this noise at 85 dBC with the classic X-Curve and a speaker response from 35.5 Hz - 18 KHz, the third octave around 1 KHz will produce about 72.3 dB SPL.

Adding 34.1 dB to 72.3 dB gives 106.4 dB, which means a level of 86.4 dB SPL at -20 dBFS.

Ultimately, a 500-2000 Hz pink noise at -20 dBFS RMS should be set at over 86 dBC in order to match cinema level in mid band frequencies.

Am I wrong?
Luca Frontino is offline  
post #587 of 599 Old 01-20-2020, 01:20 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Sorry, I meant 1/3 octave.
Luca Frontino is offline  
post #588 of 599 Old 01-20-2020, 01:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
JonasHansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 920
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 411 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Regarding reference level: I found an article (https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...itoring-levels) mentioning that reference level changes with room size. I.e. we perceive sound louder in a small space and hence reference level should be adjusted accordingly.

I've attached the mapping table from the article.

I don't know if this has already been mentioned in the thread - what's your opinion here?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ref.JPG
Views:	20
Size:	54.3 KB
ID:	2672894  

Home Theater: JBL M2 & SUB18 powered by Crown and BSS.
HAA HT1, HT2 & HT3 certified
JonasHansen is online now  
post #589 of 599 Old 01-20-2020, 02:09 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca Frontino View Post
Ultimately, a 500-2000 Hz pink noise at -20 dBFS RMS should be set at over 86 dBC in order to match cinema level in mid band frequencies.

Am I wrong?
SMPTE has not established an SPL calibration for 500-2000 Hz, though I hope they do so in future.

FWIW, I can tell you that I played the consumer style 500-2000 Hz -30 dBFS noise at The Dub Stage and found it was spot on 75 dB SPL.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #590 of 599 Old 01-21-2020, 12:40 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post
I found an article mentioning that reference level changes with room size. I.e. we perceive sound louder in a small space and hence reference level should be adjusted accordingly.
I tried that in the past and I think it's utter stupid, because by lowering playback level, you lose impact with loud effects, like gunshots and explosions or motor engines.

Feel free to use that, but I'll avoid it like the plague.
Luca Frontino is offline  
post #591 of 599 Old 01-21-2020, 02:21 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
I can tell you that I played the consumer style 500-2000 Hz -30 dBFS noise at The Dub Stage and found it was spot on 75 dB SPL.
With a Leq meter or a 1 second window?

Slow measurement (1 sec) goes up and down very quickly and I don't trust that; I use Leq.

Also, does The Dub Stage use the -3 dB/octave <63-2K> and -6 dB/octave >10K X-Curve?

By my estimate, the 500-2K -30 dBFS should be 76 dBC.
Luca Frontino is offline  
post #592 of 599 Old 01-21-2020, 10:49 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca Frontino View Post
With a Leq meter or a 1 second window?
C-wtd slow on an analog meter with eyeball averaging.

Quote:
Slow measurement (1 sec) goes up and down very quickly and I don't trust that; I use Leq.
I also prefer Leq when available.

Quote:
Also, does The Dub Stage use the -3 dB/octave <63-2K> and -6 dB/octave >10K X-Curve?
Not sure.

Quote:
By my estimate, the 500-2K -30 dBFS should be 76 dBC.
You may be right.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #593 of 599 Old 01-24-2020, 12:56 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
Theatrically rooms are calibrated at 85spl "c" weighted with Dolby Pink Noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
The absolute source level of the pink doesn't matter if the engineers have compensated for how it gets through the console or processor to the b-chain.

You don't just stick the pink noise into the amp and measure it.
Could you please tell me at what SPL do your dub stages set at reference level reproduce pink noise of -20 dBFS RMS all concentrated on the single octave centered at 1 KHz?

Thank you very much.
Luca Frontino is offline  
post #594 of 599 Old 01-24-2020, 12:05 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca Frontino View Post
Could you please tell me at what SPL do your dub stages set at reference level reproduce pink noise of -20 dBFS RMS all concentrated on the single octave centered at 1 KHz?

Thank you very much.
No one measures the noise in octave bands.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #595 of 599 Old 01-29-2020, 12:15 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 1
This channel calibration either it is 75 dB or 85 dB will not fix the original question. What are the mixers doing wrong when they end up to too low in level audio track in the blu-ray master compared to the theatrical print master?
OBJECT is offline  
post #596 of 599 Old 01-29-2020, 10:46 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
No one measures the noise in octave bands.
But, then, how do theaters target the X-Curve without an RTA?

Also, do they run the noise from Dolby processor untouched, or do they apply 22-22K band limiting or change its level?
Luca Frontino is offline  
post #597 of 599 Old 01-29-2020, 11:30 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,069
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3391 Post(s)
Liked: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luca Frontino View Post
But, then, how do theaters target the X-Curve without an RTA?
I did not say they do not use an RTA. I was suggesting that they would not know the 1-octave SPL at 1 kHz as that is not routinely measured, let alone calibrated.

Quote:
Also, do they run the noise from Dolby processor untouched, or do they apply 22-22K band limiting or change its level?
No additional filtering or level changes are applied for SPL measurements.

Deadwood II Theater (Previous Deadwood Theater HTOM)
Anthem AVM 60 7.4.4; Classé SSP-800 PLIIx 7.4; MiniDSP OpenDRC-AN
Oppo UDP-203; Oppo BDP-93; Win10 media PC w/Roon+Kodi; Roku Ultra; DirecTV Genie
Adam Audio S3V/S3H LCR, KEF Ci200QS 4 srrnd, Tannoy Di6 DC 4 hts, Hsu ULS-15 4 subs
JVC RS520; Stewart Cima Neve screen 125" diag 2.35:1, MLP at 115"
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #598 of 599 Old 02-04-2020, 02:05 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
No additional filtering or level changes are applied for SPL measurements.
Well, now I think I might actually be wrong, after all.

I just found out that the X-curve is a target response when using pink noise and 1/3 octave RTA in order to achieve a first arrival flat frequency response in reverberant rooms, meaning the mid band does not sound louder in theaters.
Luca Frontino is offline  
post #599 of 599 Old 05-21-2020, 12:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 1
...Will continue the interesting DISC reviews here...

NEXT... Pacific Heights, first release... It is time to take a look at this high octane thriller from 1990 which is still in this enthusiasts list which also consist of thrillers like, Presumed.Innocent, Fugitive, Shattered, No Mercy, The Hand that Rocks the Cradle, Blue Steel, The Mean Season, Fatal Attraction, No Way Out, The Firm, Someone to Watch Over Me, Sleeping with the Enemy, The Pelican Brief, Cape Fear, Misery, Narrow Margin, The Hitcher, The Presidio, Single White Female, and the list goes on...
- Picture; Oh my gosh! This blu-ray disc picture is looking like it was drawn directly from the film reel to this disc. Al the grain, light weaving and the dust is still in there. It is looking like it is not altered or tuned in any way. This is it how a film should look like as unaltered in a blu-ray disc.
- Audio; the loudness level in this track is stunning VERY HOT which is always a welcome and it is the second title from Sony with that. This sound mix is of course a bit harsh because of the age but it sounds like it is a direct copy from the cinema mix as unaltered from that!. This has the same symptom like the Criterion The Game cinema mix is having all the background noises music in proper loud level still maintaining a audible loud dialog. This is it how it should be in all our blu-rays!... After all, what ever a mixer is saying or pointing out we can still playback a cinema mix in our home systems
Great work Sony

NEXT... A few Canal Digital movies, old vs. new remaster... This company started to collect a while back old movies for remastering. Testing was done as usual both discs trimmed side by side for comparison. Rambo I-III and Red Heat this discs are totally wrong remastered with wrong color tuning, all the colors wrong and the audio is a direct copy. The end result is looking like this colorist monitors where out of calibration or he did use the automatic blu-ray setting in the application. Lock Up is the only one which can be called real remastering because this have correct color tuning, the flesh tones is correct and brightness/contrast is by far better. The result is so different between each groups that Canal Digital must have used different mastering facility between this groups which is a shame . It is worth saying that the Sony released Cliffhanger is remastered correctly if someone is asking that. The loudness level in all this titles are still wrong approx 4 dB too low

NEXT... The Thing, all 3 vs. 70MM Six-Track... We have Predator, we have Alien and then we have The Thing. All this are masterpieces in their own class and all others are just spin offs or copies. By the way, I have tried to locate where is John McTiernan and I did discovered that he is still writing and has sold several un-credit screenplays to the studios which they are not admitting he is doing. Ups, there might be a chance that McTiernan will be back. Hope so, https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9202810/?ref_=nm_flmg_dr_1
Remember to visit John Carpenters music sessions and concert at all times. This thing...
It was a bit difficult but did manage to trim all 3 flicks, Universal, Arrow and Shout in clock in same calibrated monitor in separate video windows to discover what is right and wrong between all this and in real time. This is something that NO disc reviewers are doing accept me but one other web page does it.
Picture: sorry, but all this 3 are a mess...
Shout; the snow is blue, other scenes are blue and even purple, flesh tone is occasionally correct with minor red push in it. Contrast/brightness is the best. Over all it has less color than in Arrow but it is the same as in Universal.
Arrow; the snow is correct, no blue or purple push, flesh tone is correct, sadly there is less contrast/brightness than in Shout and is in par with the Universal. Over all the color is the best within this 3.
Universal; the snow is correct, in some scenes there is purple push, the flesh tone is red pushed and incorrect, contrast/brightness is Arrow copy and wrong, over all the color is slightly pushed and wrong.
Who is the winner of this 3 messy picture tuning. Arrow it is.
Sound: by comparing the 3 against this 70MM Six-track (vs.) I must say that the mixers where either drunk or they did not know what they where doing. All this tracks mix is done totally wrong. How is it behaving, by turning the volume level up to a certain point where the dialog gets in proper level the back ground sounds and the music is then too loud. If you then turn the back ground sounds and music to a proper level the dialog is then too low. This means that the 70MM Six-track is NOT a direct copy as intact from the cinema mix!
When are you mixers going to learn what you are doing
Take a look at Directors Chair with John Carpenter

NEXT... Netflix NEWS... Meanwhile preparing the Coming Up article of Skywalker Sound I need to express my self of an issue I discovered when playing back the latest action movie 6 Underground.
We are having a new record in loudness level. To achieve proper level for a audible dialog with proper level in the action sequences I had to increase my pre-pros volume level to 0 dB meaning the volume level is in full!!! The Irishman have also too weak track but noting like this...
A while back Netflix did publish and advertise an article that it will produce in feature releases better picture and better audio quality.... Diminishing the loudness level this way destroys everything in the track and is also against what the original sound designer have intended it to be. Shame on you Netflix!
What is good about this flick at Netflix is the picture quality and it is the best because Michael Bay knows exactly how to manipulate lighting, colors and contrast

NEXT... Robocop, old vs. Arrow... Put down your weapons... "Robocop is an unbelievable experience. I haven't watched the film since 1988 and the other day I received it on DVD. So I eagerly popped it in the player and BOOM!!! The only way I can describe Robocop is ultra violence. The film is so over the top and out of control. The film speaks of a future where big companies will run the governmental defense. Those times are upon us more and more everyday. Paul Verhoeven has made one of the most important science fiction films ever made and it's a brilliant piece of cinema -IMDB".
102 min, 78 min (cut), 98 min (cut), 103 min (unrated director's cut) and 91 min (cut), tells everything about this flick.
We have bought all this editions under our Christmas tree in several different formats; VHS, VHS LBX, LaserDisc, DVD, box sets, Blu-ray, remastered in between and of course this re-re-remaster. Sometimes the Studios did have good luck in producing a very good disc print master, but sorry, the truth is totally different this days.
I just finished testing a few NEWLY re-remastered Blu-ray discs side-by-side and the result was mind blowing. I could not find a single difference between the old vs. the new re-remaster. Yeah, occasionally 1 mg difference in contrast or skin tones but just 1 mg, same with audio. Entirely useless and waste of money! This titles are; Drag Me to Hell, Easy Rider and Arrow Robocop.
I had definitely more fun reading the Trivia of Robocop, take a look https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093870...ef_=tt_trv_trv . Verhoeven news https://www.darkhorizons.com/verhoev...ami-tv-series/

NEXT... 4 new James Bond movies, old vs. remaster... My name is Bond, James Bond, I will have A dry martini, one. in a deep champagne goblet, three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?
Well, how do they look and sound when in sync side by side... They are all identical in picture and sound because they are already perfect tuned. But shame on them because Casino Royal 4K disc still have edge effect in there which means they did not remaster it properly! The only thing you will get is the higher resolution 4K and HDR but on a small TV screen it is a bit of a waste. But what they could have done would had been to include a bit hotter audio tracks to blow us completely away
Cinefex has also an issue for Casino Royale https://cinefex.com/backissues/issue108.htm

NEXT... Beverly Hills Cop 1-3, old vs. new remaster... "Tell Victor that Ramon - -the fella he met about a week ago? -tell him that Ramon went to the clinic today, and I found out that I have, um, herpes simplex 10, and I think Victor should go check himself out with his physician to make sure everything is fine before things start falling off on the man. -Axel Foley" ...
Paramount has establish a new marketing strategy they call it “Paramount Presents”. Paramount is saying the titles have been “meticulously remastered”...what does that mean, lets take a look:
Cop 1:
- the audio track: This is definitely a re-mixed audio track. We have in front audible wider stereo image with pitch perfect slight echoing effect in it, dialog is cleaned and the high octaves is tuned a bit up, bass is wider and audibly bigger and the surrounds are now alive in precise proper level with the front stage. This new re-mixed track is even +4dB louder than the old one. Super fine job, thanx!...but again the loudness level... The old track needed a +10dB lift in the volume level to get it in par with this new mix. This new mix still suffers from level differences and to get it properly alive with loud enough dialog I had to turn the volume knob up from -15dB to -11dB, meaning the 4dB is still there in it
- the picture: actually both are great. They are different from each other. Old is having a bit green push, is a bit darker with slightly better contrast, skin tone is the same in both, is looking like warm rec709 picture where white is cream and has the necessary film grain in it. This new remaster has a colder look in it, with slightly pink push, contrast is slightly weaker but corrected in some areas (ex. Murphys face in the opening scene), the color in all other areas is better tuned and this has diminished film grain in it. , what should I say, it is actually a matter of each once taste which one you like or not. But is the video a remaster, YES and NO. What is worthy to say is that the 4K streaming version is identical to this new release which is a good thing.
Cop 2:
- the audio track: Identical. There is no notable difference between this two. The loudness level is also the same in both and wrong (-15dB to -11dB, 4dB). This is not a restoration either a remastered track and is actually a direct copy of the old one.
- the picture: identical, not needing any restoration or remaster. It is worth saying that this new print has just diminished film grain. This new one is in par with the 4K streaming version.
Cop 3:
- the audio track: Identical. Nothing worthy to point out. In some scenes a bit louder effect in the surrounds but it is a minor issue. Loudness level is the same in both and again wrong (4dB). This is not a restoration either a remastered track.
- the picture: Almost identical. Just 1mg of difference in the color, but skin tone is much better and actors faces are better seen. The grain is identical in both. This new one is in par with the 4K streaming version.
...That said, Paramount Presents did not start perfect but descent. What more can you say about Beverly Hills Cop trilogy. First Cop is a perfect movie, with Eddies jokes laughing at least my pans off and with even perfect music. That is a fact that the actors and the crew had a hell of a ride doing this movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086960...ef_=tt_trv_trv .

NEXT... The Mask of Zorro, old vs. new remaster... IMDB 6,7 with over 160.000 Votes and that is a excellent result for this type of movie . At the time when director Martin Campbell (Casino Royale) shot this movie he already had done 007 Goldeneye https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0132709/?ref_=tt_ov_dr. Besides great directing of a movie Campbell knows exactly how to direct a movie with result of a good quality audio track
Video: Almost identical against the old one when both are in sync side by side. What they have done in this new so called remaster is the completely fine tuned brightness/contrast which is a good thing. This same fine tuning was also done with Beverly Hills Cop I. In some scenes the color is as well a bit fine tuned but it is a minor issue and mostly the scenes are identical. In the old disc the picture is a bit too dim, but the fine tuned brightness/contrast in the new version kills the dim but is also killing the background objects details sharpness (they tuned it too much). This sharpness in detail are perfect fine in the old version. Film grain is identical in both. Running both videos side by side in sync I would had just fine tuned the dimming away and leave everything else the same. At least with 4K HDR everything should be perfect but again it isn't. Is this a real remaster, NO it is not
Audio: This films audio track has always been in shape. The original sound designing and mixing is done by great names like, Hector C. Gika https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0317696/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr97, Kevin O'Connell https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0640114/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr108 and Greg P. Russell https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0751169/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr110, but is this guys intended track still in this Blu-ray disc?, lets hear it... I compared both to each other in sync and came to the following conclusion and they are almost identical! This new re-mix has exactly the same stereo image XYZ, same bass and same surrounds than in the old one. The only one minor difference is that in some scenes the surrounds are just slightly louder but you will not notice it with your silly mobile phone or soundbar . But what is great news is the loudness level which is correct meaning that I did not have to increase the volume level up to a certain point to achieve audible audio aka dialog or sound dynamics from the track. The level is in both discs the same. This new 7.1 re-mix does not give anything new because the original is already perfect fine. So, is this a remastered audio track, NO it is not!
So, is the original sound designing and mixing in both this Blu-ray discs, YES they are
Read the Trivia https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120746...ef_=tt_trv_trv
By the way the original score is mixed with Quested studio monitors. Great soundtrack from super talented James Horner

NEXT... War of the Worlds, old vs. new remaster, LFE vs. LFE... Sound designing and the mixing was done at the many Oscar winning facility Skywalker Sound by well known names aka Richard King https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0455185/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr272, Randy Thom https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0858378/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr301, Richard Hymns https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0405232/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr269 and many others. This audio track had a lot of nominees and winnings on the audio category.
End users who buy this discs and the discs reviewers should pay much more attention to whom are doing the sound designing and re-recording mixing they would probably understand better what the differences are in a super, good and a bad track.
There is a total confusion and misunderstanding at the War of the Worlds AVS topic which relates to the measurement of the bass freq. response curve between the old DTS track and new Atmos. This plot does not tell the truth at all in anything:
1. Original tracks final mix is done with equipment all tuned upon X-CURVE: LCR flat to 63Hz where 20Hz is already -5dB where LFE is 20Hz-80Hz (not 10Hz or 8Hz). The mixers do not record, process or mix anything under 20Hz.
2. Even the mixers equipment, speakers the room size/acoustic do not allow them to monitor nor hear anything below 20Hz. Most studios LFE goes only to 30Hz which will end up to the discs track.
3. If there is some sort of noise or sound in the mix under 20Hz they will kill it, delete it and will cut it off.
4. This calculation rules the home and studios the 344m per sec. speed of audio wavelength in a room (sub bass); 31,5Hz need a 11m long room, 25Hz need 13.75m long and 20Hz need a 17,2m long room...how long is your room?
5. You might find some old Kino****a/Hidley 8Hz rooms somewhere but 20Hz will anyway end up to the discs.
That said, lets sync this two to each other and lets evaluate the video and audio...
Video: Film grain is the same. Brightness/contrast is fixed on those scenes which where wrong before so that you see more of details. Most notable is the opening scene where Cruise slides his Mustang through the streets corner now you see the hole surface of the street meanwhile in the old version it was totally blown up by the sunshine. This fine tuned brightness/contrast helps also in other areas and scenes but are here almost identical against the old version. Colors are slightly more pushed but there are scenes in the old one which has more colors against the new version meaning it is a bit of a vise-versa. But the the color is anyway more precisely fine tuned in the new one. But what I do not understand at all in this new version is why the actors faces skin tone is red pushed, are we after all in Los Angeles beach area Is this a real remastering, YES and NO, I would call this more like a fixed fine tuned print. Well, what is the verdict in here, I will stick to this new version because it has great fixed brightness/contrast.
Audio: I sync both tracks side by side going forward and backward in the source input to locate differences between this two tracks and the truth is that they are after all almost identical! Stereo image with and length are identical meaning both mix are identical. Surround channels are slightly louder and you get a feeling they are a bit more open meaning a better stereo image towards the front channels. But 1dB difference is meaningless.
In both the dialog are identical. Background sounds and the overall loudness level is also the same in both. Both are actually identical except one thing the bass. In AVS forum someone is showing a freq. response curve of the old DTS track against the ATMOS track. This curve plot is not showing it correctly what is actually missing and not in the bass. What this curve plot is trying to convince is that there are NO BASS information at all in the LFE and this is the reason this measurement is totally misleading. Actually the mixers have not filtered it or cut the low end. The bass information is still there but you need to get it up to a audible level. What they have done in this new LFE track is that it is a true re-mixed version because it sounds much cleaner and wider. But to hear it properly in correct loudness level you need to lift your volume level up by 5dB and you will end up very close to the old tracks level. Meaning in my system from -15dB to -10dB and in same time all other sounds, background, dialog etc. gets even better. They are again just tricking you with this same volume level loudness issue which is a nonsense because that process is not in use in film mixing stages for cinemas meaning what the original track is. The complete mix is so good that it even allows it to have a boosted LFE track if someone prefers that but my conclusion is that this new Atmos track and it LFE channel is by certainly the most closest version to the original track except that nonsense.
Trivia https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407304...ef_=tt_trv_trv
Cinefex has an issue https://cinefex.com/backissues/issue103.htm


Great news http://www.darkhorizons.com/netflix-...paris-theatre/
https://www.darkhorizons.com/amazon-...-talk-emerges/

NEXT... Fatal Attraction, old vs. new remaster...
NEXT... Top Gun, old vs. new remaster...
NEXT... The Best Skywalker Sound sound design in a Blu-ray disc...
NEXT... A few Pixar movies, old vs. new remaster...
OBJECT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply AVS Forum® Podcasts

Tags
frontpage , Home Theater Geeks

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off