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post #571 of 585 Old 07-22-2019, 06:11 AM
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@Roger Dressler

What device (and or software) are you using to determine rms pink noise ?

Thanks. . .

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post #572 of 585 Old 07-22-2019, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
What device (and or software) are you using to determine rms pink noise ?
Adobe Audition on Windows, analysis statistics, with waveform statistics RMS settings set for 0 dBFS = FS sine wave per SMPTE definition.
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post #573 of 585 Old 07-22-2019, 10:54 AM
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It is stating it to be full bandwidth pink-noise 20Hz-20kHz and -20dBFS.

What about this:
BlueSky
http://abluesky.com/support/blue-sky...on-test-files/
Dynaudio
https://www.dynaudio.com/support/pink-noise
Genelec
https://www.genelec.com/audio-test-signals

All have different level.
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post #574 of 585 Old 07-22-2019, 11:17 AM
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What is your point @OBJECT ? Yes, you can find a million test files in the internet...

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post #575 of 585 Old 07-22-2019, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Adobe Audition on Windows, analysis statistics, with waveform statistics RMS settings set for 0 dBFS = FS sine wave per SMPTE definition.
Hi Roger,

When time permits, would you please measure on a standard peak program meter (PPM) ballpark average values for standard pink vs filtered pink noise. I believe you have posted this here already but i was a little uncertain which number correlated to which noise signal (assuming all signal generator set for -20 dB)

Yes a sine wave function -20 dB rms signal level = -20 dBFS. pink noise at -20 dB can have +9 dB PPM average, so approximately - 11 dBFS on the PPM.

Thanks Roger !

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post #576 of 585 Old 07-22-2019, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Hi Roger,

When time permits, would you please measure on a standard peak program meter (PPM) ballpark average values for standard pink vs filtered pink noise. I believe you have posted this here already but i was a little uncertain which number correlated to which noise signal (assuming all signal generator set for -20 dB)

Yes a sine wave function -20 dB rms signal level = -20 dBFS. pink noise at -20 dB can have +9 dB PPM average, so approximately - 11 dBFS on the PPM.
I don't have a PPM, but we can calculate the crest factor from Adobe's stats data, which is as follows:

12.0 dB for SMPTE 2095-1 pink noise (which is within the 11.5-12.0 dB range specified)
12.6 dB for 2095-1 filtered to 22.4 Hz - 22.4 kHz
15.4 dB for the Dolby file referenced earlier
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post #577 of 585 Old 07-23-2019, 04:58 AM
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Ok thanks Roger,


Not sure crest factor would be similar to what i’m using the PPM for. Pink noise is a relatively high density signal. -20 pink as measured (integrating 2 sec window) one would see momentary peaks of -10 dBFS and sustained peaks at -11 dBFS.

Crest factor for pink:

crest -10 dBFS
average -11
minimum -12

with faster integration on my part i’ll add another dB to each (crest and min)

crest factor = -9 -13 = 4:1 if my math is correct ?

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Last edited by Tomas2; 07-23-2019 at 05:05 AM.
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post #578 of 585 Old 07-23-2019, 05:59 AM
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Note on this youtube video @ 1:39


It’s kinda quick, but when he enables his noise generator you can see random peaks that i pretty much ignore and you basically see the meter deviating app four to five dB consistently.

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post #579 of 585 Old 07-23-2019, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
Not sure crest factor would be similar to what i’m using the PPM for. Pink noise is a relatively high density signal. -20 pink as measured (integrating 2 sec window) one would see momentary peaks of -10 dBFS and sustained peaks at -11 dBFS.

Crest factor for pink:

crest -10 dBFS
average -11
minimum -12

with faster integration on my part i’ll add another dB to each (crest and min)

crest factor = -9 -13 = 4:1 if my math is correct ?
Crest factor is simply the ratio of peak to RMS. For a sine wave, it's 3 dB. For 2095-1, it's 12 dB. For Dolby pink it's 15 dB.

Not all PPMs are created equal in how they read peaks (true peak is different than numerical PCM peak), but I suspect it's close enough for government work. Compare that to the RMS level and you have the crest factor.

What is your purpose in determining peak levels of pink noise -- just curious.

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post #580 of 585 Old 07-23-2019, 10:26 PM
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Roger, did you notice the level differences between the pink files? Why?
They are anyway from the studio monitor manufacturers who speakers are in use for mixing blu-ray.

Look at this prices https://www.rspeaudio.com/Studio-Monitors-s/2169.htm ..No gold and diamonds in them

Last edited by OBJECT; 07-24-2019 at 06:47 AM.
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post #581 of 585 Old 07-24-2019, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBJECT View Post
Roger, did you notice the level differences between the pink files?
I only looked at the Dolby noise, and the results were mentioned earlier. Link 1 Link 2

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post #582 of 585 Old 07-26-2019, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
What is your purpose in determining peak levels of pink noise -- just curious.
I knew the peak level, and was focusing on the constant -11 dBFS for standard noise and wanted to check see what the other pink noise signals you mentioned looked per -20 rms.

FWIW a peak reading meter (useless for mixing) took me some time to work with and come to understand. A lot of revelations came as the FCC mandated the CALM Act for broadcasters. Did a considerable amount of comparing between a dorrough VU meter then the PPM starting with average dialogue. For example, most broadcasters have adopted -24 LKFS for their dialnorm target. Well with a PPM i could tell if the dialogue was spot on. For all people speaking at a comfortable average volume the meter would show dialogue peaks of -10 dBFS. Always . . .

So if you know what it is your looking at, i could precisely measure complex rms audio content with the PPM. Yes i know all PPM are not the same (pretty close though) and for what it’s worth i was looking at the built-in meter on pro gear ...Sony, Panasonic, Protools ICON, Studer, Sound Devices (cool stuff) here:

https://www.sounddevices.com/

Not sure i even answered your question, but i tried my best
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Last edited by Tomas2; 07-27-2019 at 02:58 PM.
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post #583 of 585 Old 07-26-2019, 06:25 AM
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@Roger Dressler

Hey i even got validation on the dialogue number from Dolby Labs, the very helpful gentleman that i was speaking with name was Adam Pinch with Dolby...any chance you’ve crossed paths ?

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post #584 of 585 Old 07-27-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomas2 View Post
@Roger Dressler

Hey i even got validation on the dialogue number from Dolby Labs, the very helpful gentleman that i was speaking with name was Adam Pinch with Dolby...any chance you’ve crossed paths ?
Yes, we served together.
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post #585 of 585 Old 07-31-2019, 02:49 AM
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There are still no straight answer to this. Should we calibrate and EQ all channels to 79 dB?

The NEW Dolby approved The Doors was a huge disappointment. Old and this new has no actual difference in the mix and the level is exactly the same in both. Had to increase the volume level by +8 dB to achieve the correct loudness in it.

The same with the NEW remastered Glory. All the background sounds are too low in level and missing and dialog is turned to loud. With this title I had to increase the volume level to achieve the correct loudness in it.
Exactly the same symptom is with the NEW remastered Hannibal when I compared it to the old one. I will stuck with the old print because it has louder background sounds.

The NEW Iron Man and Thor remaster mixes had the same issue. I had to increase the volume level up by +4 dB to achieve the correct loudness in them.
Someone said about Skywalker Sound. Cameron has used that in several in his films with Oscar winning audio tracks. Alita is having a excellent audio mix which is so good that it allows it to be very loud. But again they have diminished the loudness in that track and I had to increase the volume level by +4 dB to achieve the correct loudness in it. The track gets better the higher I increase the volume level.

Why on earth are the mixers doing this huge nice sounding mix work and in the end result they dump it to something else.

Last edited by OBJECT; 08-14-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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