Scott and Mark Answer Your Questions on Home Theater Geeks - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 59 Old 07-28-2015, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott and Mark Answer Your Questions on Home Theater Geeks



We'll be talking about the latest AV news and answering questions, so if you've got 'em, post 'em here or join us in the chat room.

On the Home Theater Geeks podcast this Thursday, July 30, 2015, AVS senior writer Mark Henninger (imagic) and I will be geeking out about—what else?—audio and video, and we'll also be answering questions from listeners. You can watch the show live from 2:00 to 3:00 PM Pacific time at live.twit.tv, and you can join the chat room from that page or at irc.twit.tv, which we'll be monitoring for questions. You can also post questions for us in this thread, and I'll pass along as many as I can during the show.

I hope you can join us for what is sure to be a fun and interesting conversation!

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post #2 of 59 Old 07-28-2015, 07:16 PM
 
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Here's a question to you both: Where do you see UHD Blu-ray physical audio/video medium going? ...Market acceptance, pricing, ...all that jazz.
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post #3 of 59 Old 07-28-2015, 07:46 PM
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Question:


We've recently seen Samsung introduce less expensive "SUHD" models that tout High Dynamic Range compatibility. But in the case of the JS8500, all the TV seems to be doing is cranking the backlight to maximum when put in HDR mode, which does mean brighter highlights, but it also means gray-looking black levels. (LINK: http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung...ies/2/#HDRtest ). And in the case of the JS7000, the TV is using an 8-bit panel (LINK: http://hdguru.com/samsung-adds-js700...-tvs-with-hdr/ ).


If these sorts of practices continue in the name of lowering prices, do we not run the risk of shooting HDR in the foot before it really even gets started?


- Rob H. - AV Rant Podcast Co-host
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post #4 of 59 Old 07-28-2015, 08:00 PM
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Scott-Mark, what product introductions do you look forward to at CEDIA and subsequently at CES?
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post #5 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 02:24 AM
 
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Wait for HDR or jump in on a none HDR 4k tv now?
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post #6 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 03:07 AM
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Panasonic 4K OLED TV? Worth the wait if it happens this year?

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post #7 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 06:10 AM
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I'm in the market for a new AVR. I know to look for HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, but I am also concerned about "handshaking" issues (which is a problem with my current AVR setup).

There are a lot of posts commenting that some AVRs are better than others when it comes to handshaking. How can I be sure to get a unit the "plays nice with my other devices"?

More specifically, I want to connect my HTPC (and Sat box) to the AVR and then to have the pass signal through to TV without dropping the signal or requiring me to turn off and on a device.

Have the AVR manufacturers gotten any better in past couple of years in this regard?
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post #8 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post
I'm in the market for a new AVR. I know to look for HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, but I am also concerned about "handshaking" issues (which is a problem with my current AVR setup).

There are a lot of posts commenting that some AVRs are better than others when it comes to handshaking. How can I be sure to get a unit the "plays nice with my other devices"?

More specifically, I want to connect my HTPC (and Sat box) to the AVR and then to have the pass signal through to TV without dropping the signal or requiring me to turn off and on a device.

Have the AVR manufacturers gotten any better in past couple of years in this regard?
I've had pretty decent luck with all the AVRs I've had in the last few years, except one who's hdmi board completely died. It was fixed for free, even outside of warranty and worked fine until a nearby lightning strike took it out again. I think part of the issue with handshaking is you're far more likely to hear complaint stories than success stories.
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post #9 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
I've had pretty decent luck with all the AVRs I've had in the last few years, except one who's hdmi board completely died. It was fixed for free, even outside of warranty and worked fine until a nearby lightning strike took it out again. I think part of the issue with handshaking is you're far more likely to hear complaint stories than success stories.
Thanks for the feedback. Funny that you mention fried HDMI board due to lightning - I have repair guy coming out today to replace the fried HDMI board in my Samsung F8500.
The repair tech says he replaces a lot of HDMI boards this time of year (summer in FL).

Is there anything that can be done to protect this sensitive component. I mean, my antenna and power go through a UPS - but the HDMI has no in-line protection.

On the handshaking issue - is there any manufacture (in their mid-priced line (i.e. $1500 range)) that has better performance in this area? My current AVR is an Onkyo TX-SR705.
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post #10 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post
Is there anything that can be done to protect this sensitive component. I mean, my antenna and power go through a UPS - but the HDMI has no in-line protection.
There's a thread about it here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/168-hd...ppression.html

I haven't read all the way through it, but it looks relevant.
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post #11 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 07:55 AM
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What's the best estimate for when UHD BD players and discs get released? October 2015?

Will the HDR UHDTVs that are available around the time UHD BD players & discs get released be able to read and use all the HDR metadata from the discs?

While later HDR UHDTVs will probably be cheaper, what will be lacking in the HDR UHDTVs in terms of HDR (other than things like lacking 100/120 fps) around the time of the UHD BD launch, since another video mentioned waiting till around 2017 if possible (compatibility with all HDR formats? number of zones? light output? better algorithms?)

What do you see as the main hold-ups for full UHD-1 Phase 2 (including 100/120 fps input) compatible UHDTVs and monitors? Mostly due to HDMI limitations or the display manufacturers not wanting to support everything yet? Have HDMI mentioned when they will increase the HDMI spec to allow UHD Phase 2 via a single HDMI cable or will display manufacturers use display port more or multiple HDMI ports to transmit one UHD 100/120 fps signal? Which broadcasters have said they will definitely be broadcasting with UHD Phase 2 (and have they given any dates for it - other than the estimates of approx dates in the EBU/ITU documents)? Have any display manufacturers said when they will have UHD Phase 2 capable displays available or said they are working on them? Do you see them settling on 100 and 120 fps for UHD Phase 2 (assuming they don't stay at 50/60) or going higher like 150/240 etc.?

Will HDR UHD BD encodes be dithered? Has it been confirmed that HEVC 10 bit undithered is more efficient than HEVC 8 bit dithered/undithered encodes? Is the maximum average light output (nits) on a UHD BD a real maximum or just a recommended maximum (will there be anything enforcing this maximum)? Do you think HDR will be successful long term? Will they standardize on a lower nit level due to power regulations, long term viewing being harder to watch, possible damage to eyes, cost? Will it lead to greater and greater number of zones on LCD TVs or do you think it will increase the sales of OLED (even though HDR could be an issue for those too)? Do you see it encouraging the use of HFR instead of 24 fps due to more noticeable judder with HDR?

Do you think the UHD BD spec will get updated at a later date and if so what do you imagine will get updated and when (eg. for 3D at 2160p or 3D at 1080p taking advantage of the other UHD BD specs like up to 60 fps, HDR etc., 48 fps 3D? 100/120 fps for compatiblilty with UHD Phase 2?).

Will UHD Blu-ray need an internet connection to watch a UHD disc or only for making/viewing a digital copy?
Do you think the UHD Blu-ray spec has put too much emphasis on digital copy (digital bridge) instead of making the UHD BD specs and other capabilities the best they could be (eg. lack of 48 fps 3D or any 3D, lack of other rates or other things)? Do the UHD BD specs include support for BD-J on UHD BD discs?

Will future displays reduce/eliminate the need for manual calibration? eg. do you think they will allow good auto-calibration while still still allowing adjustments? Also how will HDR affect this?
What's happening with HDR standards for PCs, monitors etc?

What do you think will get updated in TV-type displays available to consumers in the US & Europe in the next few years (more and more zones for better HDR?) true HFR? 7680x4320 ("8K")? auto-stereoscopic 3D? foldable displays?

What do you see happening with display technology in the next 10-20 years?

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post #12 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 09:16 AM
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Yeah, will we ever see HDR material in 3D or will we have to choose between HDR in 2D and SDR in 3D.
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post #13 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 09:33 AM
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So many Video questions...

I will hopefully be in the chatroom but I will ask in case I miss it.

What do you think about electrostatics and servo Subs being so clean? Most of the time the artist will be in the studio with conventional speakers. The same track will sound "different" on a clean system.
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post #14 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 10:15 AM
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What's the deal with Disney not supporting 3D Blu-Ray or immersive audio formats or just physical media in general? There is a huge online revolt going on because Disney stopped releasing 3D Blu-Rays in the US yet they are being released in other countries causing customers to import which can be a hassle sometimes. Other studios are still supporting the format yet Disney seems clueless. Got any insider info on this Scott or Mark?
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post #15 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 10:23 AM
 
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There is much debate on the forums that a edge lit display is not doing HDR and that a full array is needed . I do know that a full array will have more accurate results and highlights however the HDR picture on edge lit with local dimming is quite excellent as well what is your take on this issue ..
Samsung has released a 8 bit Suhd set claiming to do HDR through dithering .True 10 Bit has 1024 luminance steps but does a 8 bit panel with FRC/dithering also get the increased luminance steps? If the 8 bit panel does not get the increased luminance steps and stays @ 256 how can it claim to do HDR and produce the extra colours? The same model JS7000 has no local dimming how can hdr be claimed without any zone control of the backlights?

The ju7100 has 2 zones for dimming top and bottom of the screen how effective or Ideal do you find this?

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post #16 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 10:48 AM
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Who are Scott and Mark and what do they know?
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post #17 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 10:49 AM
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What is the likely future of UHD bluray and UHD streaming on the PC?

LOTS of forum members use HTPCs to organize and watch their movie collection. Bluray playback on the PC has always been much more limited than DVD was. There are only a small number of licensed bluray software players at this point.

I have this sense that UHD bluray will never see a drive for the PC released as a proactive anti-piracy measure, similar to SACD.

Similarly, all the advancements in online content delivery are happening on set top boxes, not the PC. A $3000 PC gaming rig can't do as good a job with online video as an inexpensive Roku.
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post #18 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 11:50 AM
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Who are Scott and Mark and what do they know?
I'm the senior writer here at AVS Forum. I have two decades of experience working with digital images, video, and sound. I'm an avid audio enthusiast, plus a professional photographer, videographer, and writer. I joined AVS Forum ten years ago when I became interested in putting together a basic but effective DIY home theater. That project led to a fascination with home theaters that continues unabated.

I have a keen interest in TV calibration and accurate color; it's an integral part of my photo and video work. My company used to be all about large-format color printed imagery, but the advent of giant flat panels obsoleted those poster-sized prints. My interest in large high-definition displays is what replaced color printing and DVD-quality video. Anyhow, the point is accurate color and large high-res imagery are what I've been into for a long time.

I've been calibrating my own displays since the era of DV video and DVD burners. Now, I'm THX video calibration level 2 certified and work with flagship TVs to produce reviews that are relevant to enthusiasts.

Mark Henninger
Editor, AVS Forum

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post #19 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 12:11 PM
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Wonderful. You looked like two nice and smart fellas, but the post didn't show your background.

Hmm, I guess a good question would be what are your thoughts on people trying to reconcile the differences between ATMOS and Auro. They are different, incompatible speaker layouts. Has anyone successful found a way to meld the two together and what the number of speakers needed?
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post #20 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 12:11 PM
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I would like to here some questions and answers relating to Projectors and their tech and future, Im done with all the TV tech talk, so it would be nice to hear some thought on the future of projectors and where the tech is heading and cost and so forth. Im pretty much craving for anything projector related lol...


Oh here is a good question, your thoughts on D-Box (at the home and how more theaters are starting to add dbox options) and the new soon to launch kickstarter competitor Immersit.

Projector: BenQ w1500 + ES Sable 135" 16:9 Screen AVR: Marantz SR6011 ATMOS/DTSX + Unity 2ch Amp + Darbee 5000s Speakers: Polk Audio TSX550t (FL/FR), CS2 Series II (C), FXiA6 (SL/SR), Monitor40 Series II (RL/RR), TSx110B (Ceiling FL/FR RL/RR) LFE: (2) JL Audio 12" Subs + (2) Dayton 15" Subs + (2) ButtKicker LFE Arrangement: 7.1.4 Source: OPPO UDP-203 4k Bluray Player, HTPC, nVidia Shield TV Pro, Hauppauge OTA DVR
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post #21 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 12:43 PM
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Of the 3, Sony, Sharp and Panasonic, which company do you feel will most likely exit tv production entirely.
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post #22 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 12:54 PM
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So many questions - looks like we will need a Pt. 2.
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post #23 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 01:32 PM
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So many questions - looks like we will need a Pt. 2.
And here I thought doing a 2-hour Q&A AV Rant Podcast every week was using up all the home theatre questions that could possibly be out there!





- Rob H. - AV Rant Podcast Co-host
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post #24 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post
I'm in the market for a new AVR. I know to look for HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2, but I am also concerned about "handshaking" issues (which is a problem with my current AVR setup).

There are a lot of posts commenting that some AVRs are better than others when it comes to handshaking. How can I be sure to get a unit the "plays nice with my other devices"?

More specifically, I want to connect my HTPC (and Sat box) to the AVR and then to have the pass signal through to TV without dropping the signal or requiring me to turn off and on a device.

Have the AVR manufacturers gotten any better in past couple of years in this regard?
The 2015 Denon & Marantz models haven't been on the market long enough yet to really know for certain if their new HDMI 2.0a w/ HDCP 2.2 boards are better, worse, or the same as previous HDMI boards.


But one thing I CAN tell you is that I would definitely have Denon & Marantz at the very top of my consideration list for any AV Receiver purchase this year. They made their feature sets dead simple. EVERY 2015 model has HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2 on every HDMI port. And if it has 7 amps or more, it's got Atmos AND DTS:X. If it's an 'S'-Series model, it's got Audyssey MultEQ. And if it's a 7-channel 'X'-Series model, it's got MultEQ XT. If it can do more than 7 speakers at once, it's got MultEQ XT32!
So they've made it easy to keep it all straight


Yamaha is the only other mass market brand I'd be looking at right now. Pioneer and Pioneer Elite have no DTS:X support. And Onkyo/Integra have extremely basic auto-setup with AccuEQ (better to never use it, IMO), a weird decision to only put HDMI 2.0a w/ HDCP 2.2 on SOME HDMI ports, not all, on many models, and no models able to run more than 7 speakers at the moment (although I'm sure 9 and 11 speaker models are on the way).


Denon & Marantz are the only brands still supporting Front Wide speaker positions. And they're the only brands offering Auro-3D decoding as a paid, optional upgrade.
Given that Denon & Marantz are very competitively priced this year (often costing less than the closest Yamaha competitor), that just makes it very easy to put them in the pole position for 2015.


Things could easily change next year. These AV Receiver manufacturers often leap-frog each other to take the lead in any given year. But THIS year, I think Denon & Marantz have got the ball and they're running it into the end zone. So let's hope their HDMI boards don't have any major issues!

As to the HTPC connection concern, I just want to mention that you should make sure HDMI-CEC is turned OFF in every device. I don't even know how HDMI-CEC (or whatever trademarked name it happens to be in your brand of TV and AV Receiver) manages to cause some of the troubles that it does. But I can't even tell you the number of times that simply turning off HDMI-CEC has solved some seemingly random issue. So always give that a try


- Rob H. - AV Rant Podcast Co-host
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post #25 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Who are Scott and Mark and what do they know?
Somehow, I thought most AVS members know who we are by now. For those who don't, here's my bio:

I have enjoyed nearly 25 years as a journalist in the home-theater industry; I currently serve as the Editor of AVSForum.com. I also host a weekly podcast called Home Theater Geeks, in which I interview top industry technologists. In addition, I can be heard each weekend discussing home theater on Leo Laporte’s nationally syndicated radio talk show, The Tech Guy.

Previous experience includes senior editorial positions at HomeTheater.com (now SoundandVision.com) and UltimateAVmag.com as well as Home Theater and Stereophile Guide to Home Theater magazines (both of which I helped launch), The Perfect Vision, Audio/Video Interiors, Connected, and etown.com. I also hosted the product-review section of a periodical DVD called DVD Preview with Leonard Maltin.

As a professional musician, I play many different wind instruments, such as tuba, trombone, didgeridoo, conch-shell trumpet, recorder, ocarina, and various ethnic flutes. I can be heard on the soundtracks of the movies Gladiator, White Squall, and Mystic India as well as the video games Myst 4, Uncharted, and World of Warcraft 6. I have also recorded two albums with my avant-garde trio Many Axes, one with the Southern California Early Music Consort, and one with my wife, singer-songwriter Joanna Cazden.
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post #26 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by FirstReflect View Post
And here I thought doing a 2-hour Q&A AV Rant Podcast every week was using up all the home theatre questions that could possibly be out there!







- Rob H. - AV Rant Podcast Co-host
You guys need to do a 3rd hour.
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post #27 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 03:05 PM
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48/50/60fps content on current displays?

UHD promises a lot:
  • Higher spacial resolution
  • Different chroma subsampling schemes
  • High dynamic range
  • Higher temporal resolution
  • Higher bit depth
  • Wide Color Gamet
Of those, the one feature that all of our displays can do today is obviously the high temporal resolution, aka high frame rate.
For consumers unwilling to make the jump into a UHD display just yet, how do you see high frame rate content (for example, on UHD Blu-ray or streaming services) being used? Do you envision people playing back 1080p60 from physical media? What about Netflix/Hulu/Vudu/etc.? Do you envision some (less cinematic) films, such as documentaries, being distributed at 60fps? Or are we stuck in 24fps?

Is there any good 60fps content that us home theater geeks can play around with right now, to see if we like it?
Sure, we can watch Mario Kart on a Nintendo or YouTube videos, but what about films or non-sports TV?
Many people will be stubborn towards anything more than 24fps. For content filmed/distributed at high frame rate, do you see a way for us to force it to be played back at 24fps for a more traditional cinematic effect? Such as Blu-ray players or TVs that have an option to down-sample? Could down-samplers possibly recreate the cinematic motion blur/smear that filming at 24fps originally would have had? Do you predict UHD Blu-rays released in both 60fps and 24fps versions, similar to 2D and 3D dual-disc releases today?


Today, I have a HTPC, but I don't even know if it is really powerful enough to decode 60fps at various resolutions and encoded bit-rates... there seems to be so little content with such high temporal resolution with which to test!



If you are looking to talk about something other than UHD UHD UHD, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on tactile transducers as well. I don't think I have any specific questions; maybe just their practicality, in your experience. If they are a great supplemental effect and affordable, why doesn't everyone have one? Or does everyone have one, and I am just out of the loop? etc.



I realize these question are opinion-based and open ended predictions, but I'm just trying to give you talking points
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post #28 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 03:10 PM
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Looking forward to the show. I have a few questions:

1. What do you think the price tag will be for the UHD Blu-ray players and movies when they become available later this year?

2. What is going on with the Vizio Reference series? I'm hoping you guys have some insider info on this.

3. If you were going to buy any TV right now and keep it for at least 3 years, what would it be?
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post #29 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
As a professional musician, I play many different wind instruments, such as tuba, trombone, didgeridoo, conch-shell trumpet, recorder, ocarina, and various ethnic flutes. I can be heard on the soundtracks of the movies Gladiator, White Squall, and Mystic India as well as the video games Myst 4, Uncharted, and World of Warcraft 6. I have also recorded two albums with my avant-garde trio Many Axes, one with the Southern California Early Music Consort, and one with my wife, singer-songwriter Joanna Cazden.
Wow! Had never known this.
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post #30 of 59 Old 07-29-2015, 03:21 PM
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Question(s):

I have the same display Mark has (64" plamsa), with the Denon X5200 which doesn't have HDCP 2.2 copy protection. Will it be at all possible to connect a 4k disc player to my setup or am I sunk? I'm guessing all UHD formats require HDCP 2.2?

If the connection is possible, would I see any benefit for UHD/HDR discs on my display?

If not possible, do you think standard blurays might come with HDR grading as well if it comes as part of a package (such as; how most bluray releases now include the DVD version/ or non-3D version of the same bluray?) Or do you think HDR will be exclusively on UHD discs? I'm curious how this will shake out with Atmos / DTS X encoding as well... like if only the UHD version might have an Atmos mix?
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