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post #121 of 145 Old 08-31-2015, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
There is always that patent thing. 9 patents on the M2 speaker design specifically, all done in 2012/2013.

Don't try this at home kids.

I guess DIY might be an option, but at what point will DIY equal the results of the M2 without the same level of engineering talent, and ability to measure, manufacture, and validate with a SPIN-O-RAMA Machine ?

Don't get my message wrong, I actually DIY a M2 clone myself, to the best of my ability, with my limited $500 each budget.
Results were awesome. But not M2.
What did you use for a horn? SEOS?
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post #122 of 145 Old 08-31-2015, 05:32 PM
 
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Yeah, it's the best I could find in my budget and its not even close.

I used an AE woofer (TD15) and ran them active similar to M2.

Mine isn't 120x100

It's 90x60. But it's pretty good off axis I measured it like 100 times outside. I XO at about 900hz if HIFI, and if I want to go loud I have another setting of 950hz, which is a tad safer for tweeter at 120db.
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post #123 of 145 Old 09-03-2015, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
I sure won't hold him back
Hi Markus

Mathias reminds me that page 6 in the document that you cited (http://diracdocs.com/on_room_correction.pdf) shows measurements of a Genelec speaker in a very well damped room in a number of positions and each measurement position shows non-minimum phase behavior, that is zeros outside the unit circle.
On page 7 there are some plots of how a minimum phase and a mixed phase correction affect the step response... admittedly that is just one example room + speaker but he is not sure that he ever has seen a measurement inside a room that was minimum phase (and he adds... not surprising, since there are infinitely many different possible phase responses and the minimum-phase response is just one of these).

But there is more he has to say...

"Here are two images that show that speakers themselves, and speakers in rooms, are generally non-minimum phase.

The first image shows a measured impulse response and frequency response of a two-way speaker in a room in just one position.
Now, to show that the speaker is not minimum phase, we created the minimum-phase impulse response corresponding to the measured frequency response, it is shown on the right.
To the left, you see the real impulse response, which is vastly different... you can see that it is not just late reflections that are non-minimum phase but also the speaker itself.
The direct wave of the speaker is very different from the min-phase version of the frequency response.
Perhaps a single driver measured without a cabinet can be minimum phase, but as soon as you have more than one driver and a cross-over, you will surely have non-minimum phase behavior.
So, real-life loudspeakers are not minimum phase... this is just a fact, simple to see through measurements.



The next image from Scott's interview shows again a two-way speaker (I don’t know whether it’s the same speaker as above) measured in nine positions.
We now optimized this speaker with Dirac Live and then compared it to another optimization with identical magnitude response but realized as a minimum-phase filter instead.
The graphs show the resulting impulse responses in all positions after correction.
Again, we see that the min-phase correction (with the same magnitude response as the mixed-phase correction) does not yield an improved impulse response whereas the Dirac Live correction does.



This proves...

a) that the system was not minimum phase to begin with, since then a mixed-phase correction could not have improved the impulse response,
and
b) that the Dirac Live mixed-phase correction improves the impulse response consistently throughout the measurement region.

So, speakers are mixed-phase and mixed-phase correction, when done properly (which is a crucial distinction), will normally improve the impulse response throughout the listening region and not just in a single point in space"

That's all I have for the moment
Flavio
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post #124 of 145 Old 09-03-2015, 05:26 AM
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Hi Flavio

I just would like to add that the first image is certainly not showing the free-field response of a speaker

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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post #125 of 145 Old 09-03-2015, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Hi Flavio

I just would like to add that the first image is certainly not showing the free-field response of a speaker
Yes, you are right... it is not and it is mentioned that he is speaking about a "two-way speaker in a room"
but he then adds "To the left, you see the real impulse response, which is vastly different... you can see that it is not just late reflections that are non-minimum phase but also the speaker itself.
The direct wave of the speaker is very different from the min-phase version of the frequency response"

Flavio

Warning: My posts might be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)
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post #126 of 145 Old 09-03-2015, 08:32 AM
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@flax ,
My feature request:
I'd love to see something like a DDRC-88A that does 16 channels at 96khz, with built-in bass mgmt and multiple presets, all for a reasonable price.

Many around here find the lack of an ideal Dirac solution for Atmos under $20k to be pretty frustrating. (But not $20k frustrating.)

Maybe the Emotiva XMR-1 will eventually scratch this itch.

(The only reason I mention 96khz is because an external unit has to handle 44khz and 48khz signals. If it runs at the source signal, 44/48 is certainly sufficient.)
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post #127 of 145 Old 09-04-2015, 06:42 AM
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Markus raised the question of running Dirac on full bandwidth for subs and using the target curve for bass mgmt crossovers vs doing bass mgmt prior to Dirac.

He points out that doing it within Dirac enables Dirac to do more phase correction.

On the flip side, there are a couple potential advantages to doing the bass mgmt before Dirac and clicking the sub channel box.
(This is speculative, not based on actual knowledge of the inner workings of Dirac.)

1) The sub channel's test signal can focus on the applicable frequencies.

2) The sub channel can operate at a lower sampling rate and allow for much larger filters using the same computational resources.

Perhaps is the bass mgmt function was integrated into Dirac, it would be possible to have the best of both.
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post #128 of 145 Old 09-18-2015, 08:26 AM
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@flax , another feature request...
It would be great to be able to set the final full range response with bass mgmt before Dirac.
Not sure how this would be possible, though, unless Dirac did the bass mgmt.
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post #129 of 145 Old 09-18-2015, 11:40 AM
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Dear Robert,
I'm confident that when a new product or upgrade will be released it will satisfy your requirements

Flavio
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Warning: My posts might be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)
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post #130 of 145 Old 09-18-2015, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by flax View Post
Dear Robert,
I'm confident that when a new product or upgrade will be released it will satisfy your requirements

Flavio
Sounds good!

You guys are probably on top of this, too, but just in case, here's something else to be aware of...

When you do bass mgmt before Dirac and try to set the crossover frequency differently for different speakers, it becomes very difficult to get consistent combined response between speakers. It's not such an issue with a consistent crossover frequency for all speakers, though.
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post #131 of 145 Old 05-30-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
@flax ,
My feature request:
I'd love to see something like a DDRC-88A that does 16 channels at 96khz, with built-in bass mgmt and multiple presets, all for a reasonable price.

Many around here find the lack of an ideal Dirac solution for Atmos under $20k to be pretty frustrating. (But not $20k frustrating.)

Maybe the Emotiva XMR-1 will eventually scratch this itch.

(The only reason I mention 96khz is because an external unit has to handle 44khz and 48khz signals. If it runs at the source signal, 44/48 is certainly sufficient.)
I am using an AudioControl Maestro M9 processor with Dirac Live. It handles Atmos and it's well under 20k by itself.
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post #132 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 12:38 AM
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I am using an AudioControl Maestro M9 processor with Dirac Live. It handles Atmos and it's well under 20k by itself.
I am using a NAD T758v3. It handles 7.1.4 Atmos and it's well under 2k
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post #133 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 05:47 AM
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I am using a NAD T758v3. It handles 7.1.4 Atmos and it's well under 2k
Dirac Live Lite, though?
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post #134 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 06:29 AM
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Dirac Live Lite, though?
Full version can be bought from Dirac Research for $99:
https://nadelectronics.com/dirac-live/
Scroll down to "3 - Software Download"

Markus

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post #135 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 06:37 AM
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Full version can be bought from Dirac Research for $99:
https://nadelectronics.com/dirac-live/
Scroll down to "3 - Software Download"
Does it handle DTS:X? Dolby Vision passthrough?
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post #136 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 06:48 AM
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Does it handle DTS:X? Dolby Vision passthrough?
1. Not yet
2. Yes

Markus

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post #137 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 07:29 AM
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1. Not yet
2. Yes
It's one of the few processor/receivers that do, that's why I asked.
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post #138 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 04:43 PM
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It's one of the few processor/receivers that do, that's why I asked.
You decide if DTS:X support now is worth the extra 18k (or how much is the AudioControl these days?). How many DTS:X encoded movies did you watch? In my case I can count them on one hand.

Markus

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post #139 of 145 Old 05-31-2018, 05:17 PM
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You decide if DTS:X support now is worth the extra 18k (or how much is the AudioControl these days?). How many DTS:X encoded movies did you watch? In my case I can count them on one hand.
I was talking about and complimenting the NAD as one of the few pieces of gear out there, regardless of price, that do certain things and include Dirac.

While DTS:X is scare (in content), Neural:X is legitimate, I've heard it, and it's convincing. Would I spend a bunch of money to obtain it, not necessarily.

No need to crap on the AudioControl. Have you used it? Heard it?
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post #140 of 145 Old 06-01-2018, 03:23 PM
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No need to crap on the AudioControl. Have you used it? Heard it?
I didn't say that the AudioControl unit is bad, I just said it's (more than?) 10 times the price of a NAD 758v3.

Markus

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post #141 of 145 Old 06-02-2018, 07:16 AM
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I didn't say that the AudioControl unit is bad, I just said it's (more than?) 10 times the price of a NAD 758v3.
It retails for $8900. It's competitive with other separate processors with similar features. However, it is one of the few with Dirac.
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post #142 of 145 Old 06-02-2018, 10:01 AM
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It retails for $8900. It's competitive with other separate processors with similar features. However, it is one of the few with Dirac.
The MSRP of the 758v3 is $1300...
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post #143 of 145 Old 06-02-2018, 10:12 AM
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The MSRP of the 758v3 is $1300...
The NAD is a tremendous value, that is for sure. I will get one in for review.
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post #144 of 145 Old 03-14-2019, 09:18 AM
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The NAD is a tremendous value, that is for sure. I will get one in for review.
For its Price Nothing comes close to the NAD. It is simple amazing
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post #145 of 145 Old 04-27-2019, 04:44 AM
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Hey there,


hoping this is the correct thread to adress this:


Owning an Audiolab 8000AP I ran into the same problem with my miniDSP nanoAVR DL as you can read here:


No sound at channels 3-8


The solution I'd like to give a try on is to do the measurement via PC as suggested here


MiniDSP Audiolab 8200AP compatibility


but in order to be able to do so I need a trial version of Dirac Live Room correction Suite (PC) v1.2.1.


Having contacted the customer service of Dirac I only got advised that there is v2.x available for download and they can (or don't want?) not provide a download to 1.x anymore. Pretty dissappointing, the more as I do own two Dirac Live licences (miniDSP) and explained to Dirac WHY I NEED v1.x: The miniDSP nanoAVR DL doesn't run with 2.x. As simple as that.


So, PLEASE, if someone in here still has a copy of v1.2.1 on his/her harddisc or can provide a valid link this would help me alot. Many thanks in advance.


Kind regards,
Marcel
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